Multiplayer is not good.

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#1 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

Here are some issues I have with this game and why I think it is hands down the worst gears game so far.

1. Four Shitty Maps. Ok so you can say there are 8 but for anyone that bought this game for the vs multiplayer there are only 4. It would be ok if the 4 maps were actually decent but these are shit. Too many levels vertically for a gears game. Why are dudes dropping down from 2 storeys above me to shoot me in the back? Barely any fall damage and thats besides the point gears has never been this way when it comes to being able to jump off of any ledge. These maps are beyond shit. One of the big things with gears mp is listening and being aware when someone is sneaking up behind you but instead now they can be above you. Fucking garbage.

2. Carrying 2 guns? Why? Why do this? Why make it so that you can carry a primary and a sidearm? Gears has always been rifle and shotgun with handgun. This is so stupid. So if I spawn with a shotgun I am helpless when I face an opponent at any decent range? There is no good reason that they changed it so that Y changed weapons. This benefits nobody. In gears 3 you had a medium range weapon and a short range weapon so that you stand a chance in any scenario. Instead in this game you have to choose between playing at medium range or close up. Awful decision if you ask me. I want more options when im in a situation where I need a medium range weapon and need to switch to short range.

3. Spawning with grenades/ Sawed off shotgun. I know this may come across as elitist or whatever and to be honest I dont care but seriously what the fuck? So if I feel like I have been outplayed I can just toss out a grenade in last resort and possibly win the battle? I have played quite a bit and there is nothing but frag spam in this game. I know the grenades arent quite as effective but they are still pretty nasty. Sawed off shotgun has 2 shots in a clip now. What the fuck? Part of using the sawed off was realizing that if you fuck up you pay the price. Instead if you miss on one shot you can just turn around and blast away. Way to make the most cheapest gun in the game even worse.

4. No DBNO?(down but not out) Why get rid of this staple in gears multiplayer? I and many others loved struggling to get back up after being bested or helping others up. There is no decent reason why they got rid of this. No meatshields no grenade kills while down. fucking hell.

So for those of you that consider yourselves fairly invested in gears multiplayer how do you feel about the changes? Do you like them or do you feel that they basically spat in the face of those that continued to support these games in favor of catering to the mainstream COD Halo crowd? I have to say that gears had taken a huge step down from the superb gears 3. Fuck this game basically. I knew but I still caved and I only blame myself for this.

#2 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

The cool kids stopped playing Gears after 2, because roll roll rofl shotgun lol didn't continue to be entertaining past the first game which was actually kind of fresh at the time.

also dat Dyson chainsaw

#3 Edited by glacialhelmnun (52 posts) -

That's a pretty sweeping statement to start a general discussion with.

That said I think I agree.

#4 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@sooty said:

The cool kids stopped playing Gears after 2, because roll roll rofl shotgun lol didn't continue to be entertaining past the first game which was actually kind of fresh at the time.

also dat Dyson chainsaw

Dont care about the cool kids. Also you hate everything so ill take this comment with a grain of salt.

#5 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -

I haven't gotten Judgment yet (only played Overrun demo), but...

1. Yeah, four maps sounds like a problem. Halo 4's lack of on-disc maps are also an issue.

2. I can understand the weapon change. I have died more than once because of using the D-pad to switch to my grenade or pistol instead of Gnasher (it's pretty horrifying to have a meatshield and bag-and-tag rather than switching to shotgun, because you have to sit there and watch the animation knowing the other dude will kill you for that mistake). One-weapon loadouts remains something I am skeptical about, and I'd prefer rifle/shotgun over primary/snub, but ideally I think I would always rush a power weapon or pick something from a corpse to cover my weakness.

3. Sawed-off spread isn't nearly as powerful as Gears 3 (even post-nerf). It's still a bad gun that only hurts the user. Frag spam I can understand, but honestly I'm more worried about stim grenades and two-piecing from the sound of things.

4. There are reasons to remove DBNO. It helps balance for the removal of stopping power of rifles (which were too strong in Gears 3 with a coordinated team). Helps prevent kill stealing and awkward situations where you can't kill a downed enemy in the new maps. In any case, there will be the free execution DLC and we'll see if there is still an audience for DBNO.

Other stuff I do like: no ink stun (holy crap, I hated ink stun), no active reload damage, no stopping power, no planted grenades

#6 Posted by StarvingGamer (7918 posts) -

Man, this thread is totally not about what I thought it would be about.

That's a pretty sweeping statement to start a general discussion with.

Exactly what I was thinking.

#7 Posted by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@bigandtasty: I agree with you on a few points. Sure it sucked to hit the wrong button on the dpad to switch weapon but even cycling through with Y would be a better option. Im not sure about the sawed off. I have seen quite a few double kils with that bad boy since I started playing. Stim grenades are ineffective if you gnasher up close. Not sure what 2 piecing means. It's funny you mention kill stealing because in free for all it actually says kill stealing if someone kills a dude you did a bunch of damage to. I am looking forward to execution since there is a lack of game modes to choose from currently. I do agree about ink stun. Fuck that shit.

#8 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3048 posts) -

I hate everything I've heard about this game. Christ.

#9 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -
#10 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

Ah damn just realized I didnt pin it to the proper forums. Thought I did for some reason.

#11 Edited by GunstarRed (4997 posts) -

OK, I'm terrible at Gears MP and I agree with some things and not others. If you were good at previous games I could see a bunch of these being an issue, but they very clearly want to get a few new people into what had become an almost impenetrable series to get into at this point.

I agree that the maps are terrible, just awful with Gondola being a big mess of nonsense, but I actually think the verticality is a cool thing. I like that I'm actually able to get some kind of advantage over shotgun rollers. And yes, four maps is not enough.

Grenades are a pain, but the Sawed Off has never been anything but a cheap kill and an easier death. I have never done well with it and the only people I have seen be effective with it are already very good at the game. Being bad at the game, the Gnasher is still far and away a better option.

So the one weapon spawn, I get it. It's to stop the shotgun rollers from being good all round, It makes terrible people at the game have a tiny bit more of a chance at a distance. I know if there's someone shotgun rolling me that the only way they can kill me is to get up close and I can hold them off at a distance. And I have. I got a five kill streak yesterday, something I haven't even come close to since the first game, and I was still third on my team so I don't think I had an advantage. It's just nice to know that shotgun rollers have to back off sometimes now.

I also like that there is no DBNO, I get kills now. before I'd end up downing people all the time and in the process of reloading get shotgun rolled to death.

I feel like I have a chance now, and I totally understand why the changes will annoy people that were previously good at the game, but I feel it's something that really needed shaking up at this point.

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#12 Edited by Clonedzero (4045 posts) -

1.) yeah. the low number of maps kinda sucks. luckily we're getting a couple free ones soon, and if you play overrun (which is a fantastic gamemode) then theres 4 more maps. still sucks. but the maps are really well designed. the vertical nature of them adds way more crazy crap. ambushing people is COOL. stop blaming the maps for your poor situational awareness. the areas where people can drop down on you are super obvious.

2.) the two guns thing is fine. allows for faster swapping and honestly, who ever used the pistol other than to be cute in previous gears games? this is a stupid complaint. it also forces you to choose to have a shotgun and limit your ranged capabilities or take a rifle.

3.) the sawed off sucks. why do you care? its like a bandwagon hate thats not based on any real logic. its not very good stop complaining about it, a gnasher is always better. also grenades are fine too, they're all nerfed in power and you can't set BS traps anymore. it adds something to the game. lets you flush out corner camping shotgunners. i just "prestiged" (i have alot of freetime lol) and ive seen maybe 2 or 3 people using the sawed off total.

4.) honestly? i like the lack of DBNO. it speeds up the gameplay alot, and in gears 3 i can't count the number of times i downed a guy behind a piece of cover and run over only to have some guy gnasher him right as im about to finish him.

in the games defense, the weapons are all really well balanced. the maps, even though theres so few of them, are all really good and dynamic. i'm having a blast with the multiplayer. overrun is a fantastic mode, few things could use some tweeks balance-wise with it, but its great. i'm loving the game, personally my biggest complaint aside from wanting more maps is the low number of multiplayer characters, theres like 10. not counting the ridiculous amount of preorder bullshit.

EDIT- ugh. you whined about the game "catering to the CoD" crowd. i dunno if i can even take this ridiculous discussiong seriously anymore. jesus christ how is this "like CoD". grow up.

#13 Posted by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@clonedzero: Why reply if you cant take this ridiculous discussion seriously? I disagree on every point you have made. To say the sawed off is a bad gun is retarded. As far as 2 guns goes thats what im talking about. Who ever used the fucking snub? Unless im missing something is there an option to spawn without the snub? I just disagree about the DBNO thing. You didnt like DBNO because on your way to finish off a dude you would get shot in the back. Talk about situational awareness. You were a complete dick in your reply so to be honest I have nothing else to say to you.

#14 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -

I agree on all points. They've severely cut back on the strategy that I liked about Gears. And 4 maps with the promise of another 2 for free in a $60 product is gross. "You'll buy the DLC anyway so we just didn't work as hard on the initial roster of maps." It's a gross money grab tactic and I won't support it.

#15 Posted by mercutio123 (466 posts) -

Man when they announced this i was so pumped, glad I didn't pre order it sounds like utter dogshit. Hearing the stuff they've taken out like DBNO is really depressing actually. I was kinda curious about the new vertical elements to the map but it sounds like they didn't quite pull it off

#16 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

What game? The general discussions game?

On topic, Judgement seems to have removed everything that made GoW MP unique.

I will never play this abomination, and they better not think this is the direction they should take for the next game.

The thing about gears is, almost every decision you make has tactical implications throughout the gameplay. Which guns you take, when you switch to them, planting grenades or throwing them, when to reload, when to get a hot active, when you throw your grenades, not killing a DBNO to use them as bait, not using the sawn off because you're not a little bitch who can't play for shit.

All these things are important to making GoW, and this game has removed all of them.

@clonedzero You've obviously never ran into anyone who was good with the boltok. Even snub headshots were a viable way to play. The pistol was an important piece of the tactics puzzle.

DBNO is important to tactical play. You failing to see that makes me feel alright that you're happy with judgement, because it means you simply don't get what makes gears.

#17 Posted by ripelivejam (3465 posts) -

i'm a recluse and misanthrope and all i need is a Civ game, caffeinated drinks, and the hours between 10pm and 4am :)

#18 Posted by laserbolts (5310 posts) -
#19 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

I'm going to take the controversial stance that Gears multi has never been good. I guess aside from Horde Mode.

#20 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

I'm going to take the controversial stance that Gears multi has never been good. I guess aside from Horde Mode.

I would say gears 3 is probably my favorite competitive multiplayer game ever. To each their own I guess.

#21 Posted by NoobSauceG7 (1230 posts) -

Totally agree with you. Gears 3 mp was so much better. Overrun is the only good mp mode.

#22 Edited by Yummylee (21208 posts) -

I'm really enjoying the multiplayer actually, and the Streets and Library maps in particular are really fun. I actually like the added verticality as it would always annoy me when I'd, say, try to roll away but would hit against an invisible wall when I should realistically be able to fall down to the lower level.

It still feels very much like some Gears ass Gears multiplayer to me; as in everyone's running around with Gnashers. In fact this feels like it's pushed all the more for Gnasher only games considering that you can only select one weapon to take with you, while your pistol takes up your secondary shoot, which is odd/ I do love being able to toss grenades and how much faster you can swap your guns, though.

It's definitely much more twitch based and about reflexes than regular Gears perhaps -- a little CoDish in that regard. From what little of Gears multiplayer I have played--being Gears 3 like a year after its release--while I still really enjoyed the gameplay, I simply couldn't compete with these machine-operated wall-bouncing lunatics. So regardless of the changes I'm just happy to be on a more level playing field now with Judgment. Plus I've actually had a chance to 'practise' with the Gnasher and I can hold my own. Which is good because they've removed pretty much all stopping power from the Retro Lancer, which was the only gun that I could hold my own with in Gears 3.

I think Judgment overall is pretty great and the campaign is super fun. Really hectic, like the Greatest Hits version of Gears where it just throws everything at you. The removal of Horde is fucking heartbreaking, though, and there's relative lack of content for both single-player and multiplayer at that. Still, I've had a lot of fun with this game across all aspects.

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#23 Posted by Clonedzero (4045 posts) -

@clonedzero: Why reply if you cant take this ridiculous discussion seriously? I disagree on every point you have made. To say the sawed off is a bad gun is retarded. As far as 2 guns goes thats what im talking about. Who ever used the fucking snub? Unless im missing something is there an option to spawn without the snub? I just disagree about the DBNO thing. You didnt like DBNO because on your way to finish off a dude you would get shot in the back. Talk about situational awareness. You were a complete dick in your reply so to be honest I have nothing else to say to you.

the sawed off is bad. go play a few matches and exclusively use the sawed off, i promise you that you'll do worse. its significantly weaker than it was in gears 3. even with the second shot. its only SLIGHTLY more powerful than a gnasher shot, and you only get 2 shots before reloading and the gnasher gets 8. any kill you get with the sawed off you could get it way easier with the gnasher.

uh, i was talking about the snub wasn't really used by anyone seriously unless they were out of ammo or being cute. (the boltok and gorgon don't count they're pick-ups). so unless you picked up a power pistol having one was pretty pointless i mean sure you COULD kill guys with it, but you always have a better option.

reread my post, i didnt like DBNO because i liked using rifles alot, so i down a guy, i have to run around cover and go finish him off. at least half the time someone else would "steal my kill". so yeah, my situational awareness is perfectly fine thanks. its just discouraging when you down tons of guys but only get half the kills you earned.

me saying its hard taking you seriously is when you start complaining they "turned it into CoD". which they didnt. not even remotely. at all. im just sick of CoD someone working its way into EVERY discussion about anything game related. we get it. you dont like CoD unless its actually relevant can we stop talking about it please?

#24 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5178 posts) -

I rather enjoy multiplayer general discussion

#25 Posted by EXTomar (4450 posts) -

I'm going to take the controversial stance that Gears multi has never been good. I guess aside from Horde Mode.

I don't think that is controversial. Gears has also been best on foot.

#26 Posted by RazielCuts (2909 posts) -

Man, this thread is totally not about what I thought it would be about.

@glacialhelmnun said:

That's a pretty sweeping statement to start a general discussion with.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Me three. I thought it was going to go a little something like this -

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#27 Posted by Superfriend (1520 posts) -

Is the sawed off still kinda weird in laggy situations?

I remember getting killed by that thing in Gears 3.. and sometimes those shots were fired from quite far away.

Also, this belongs in the Gears of War Judgement forum.

#28 Posted by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@clonedzero: I actually like call of duty and the sawed off is actually really good in this game. The instant respawns and the way tdm is changed definitly makes it more like call of duty. Also spawning with grenades and the constant aiming reticle are other ways they made this game more like call of duty. The gnasher is basically broken in this game. At least compared to gears 3. Completely inconsistent with one hit kills at least in my experience. Another thing that sucks is that they are adding execution to this game and the maps are not designed for it. I down someone I have to try to get to their body which may require climbing about ten sets of stairs. I understand they designed the maps so that DBNO wouldnt be a smart move but I miss it and this is not the gears I know and love.

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (14520 posts) -

The only shocking thing here is that anyone thought this game was going to be good at all.

#30 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -

The only shocking thing here is that anyone thought this game was going to be good at all.

Gears of War: Judgment is a good game. The multiplayer is different that's for sure--somewhat faster and a little more accessible--but it's not terrible or anything either.

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#31 Edited by ShaolinDude (1 posts) -

Although I'm a crappy Gears player, I always loved the way the multiplayer worked. The tactical side of it, how to approach your enemy or objective, what weapon to switch to, where to plant grenades or not, stuff like that. It really made Gears the unique game it is. No matter how crap I was, I could always appreciate this fact.

Judgment has changed this. This game is all about frantic action. When you look at domination for instance. There is never that sense of tactical awareness. Teams are just rushing from point to point. Chucking in grenades and flushing you out. The teams are constantly rotating through the map without really holding any positions. With TDM this is basically the same. There's no sense of holding positions for a tacticial reason or simply because the other team is pushing you back and you're trying to stand your ground. It's just run and gun.

I'm not saying this game is bad, it's just different. The changes they made throughout the multiplayer make this game quicker and less tactical. It still can be fun at times but it feel less rewarding. And the maps, well that's definitely a shame. The only map I enjoyed playing is library, kinda. The other three are a complete mess. Normally you get more maps, and there's always good and bad maps. Halo 4 had fewer maps than before, but in my opinion they aren't bad maps. So that never bothered me too much. But if the few maps you get are a complete mess, that really disappoints a lot.

I can understand they want to evolve the gameplay. But this is not evolving, this is completely changing it. It's a whole different game. So for the oldschool Gears fans this is a big disappointment. Well at least we can still play Gears 3 instead.

#32 Edited by SensuousLettuce (105 posts) -

It's pretty awful, that's for sure. It feels soulless. I think FFA is really fun, but what PCF has done to the MP has ruined it.

Melee. Melee. Melee.

<sadface>

#33 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

I find Judgement to be a totally different game. Everything is faster paced and CODified (even though Gears is already pretty freaking fast paced). It feels janky and not quite right. Not holding a rifle and shotgun when you spawn is ridiculous, who decided on that? Two-piecing or reverse two-piecing is king now. It's just nade, two piece, nade, two piece, nade, nade, nade.

I popped in Gears3 mp and instantly found myself having more fun and wondering why People Can Fly changed so much about it.

@canteu: Exactly what you said. Your actions had weight and tactical implications. Judgement just throws all that out the window.

#34 Posted by EXTomar (4450 posts) -

I don't know if "bad" is the correct term where I would instead say it is "unnecessary"? What was the reason for this game's production beyond "sell more stuff to Gears fans"?

#35 Edited by CaptainTightPants (2834 posts) -

@supamon: I believe that People Can Fly only handled the campaign, the multiplayer was Epic.

#36 Edited by supamon (1333 posts) -

@captaintightpants: If that is truly the case then shame on Epic. They know what the fans like about gears and should know better than that.

#37 Posted by tunaburn (1879 posts) -

i have maxed level in all gears games. this one is fun. it doesnt feel like a real gears game though.

#38 Posted by Vanek (381 posts) -

I'm two days out but this is the most recent thread about the game so what the hell. I'll try and format my jumbled thoughts about the multiplayer ...

1. I don't like the maps. The vertical aspect is a nice addition but I don't like Overrun so I've basically got four maps that just don't feel as well designed as in the previous games. It could just be the amount of time since I last played Gears of War 3 but they seem smaller or more condensed meaning everyone just uses the Gnasher. I freely admit that I'm not great at these games but the second I switched to the Gnasher I started doing so much better.

2. The little changes don't really improve anything. The grenade changes and condensed maps lead to everyone spamming, the match constantly puts the best players in one team and the worst in the other (I've kept track from match to match) and the weapon selection doesn't make sense. I don't see how only being able to choose one weapon is an improvement and given that everyone drops the pistol at the first opportunity it just seems pointless. The lack of the DBNO system is also a shame as I found it rewarding and TDM being score based instead of respawn based isn't as fun. There was something amazing about watching a 1 vs 4 man comeback that now can't happen.

3. This is really a non issue for most people, but for weird people like me it stuck out that the previous game a lot of character skins for versus and this has something like 8. I know the story isn't about Marcus but locking him and other main characters behind preorders feels really shitty. I think there are 5/6 preorder skins and then 2 purchasable which combined with the amount of crap you pay more money for makes me feel bad every time I open the menu. The mutliplayer lacks content and if frankly if they must sell so much extra crap at least give me an option to hide it.

I have no problem with PCF changing things but I feel that some of them don't make sense, some remove what was unique about GoW and the others often simply don't work. There are some good changes, but the bad combined with how thin the content is feels bad. I supported GoW 3 and happily bought the season pass but I don't think I want to support this game at all. I'm not going to give up completely though, I'll keep playing and see if something changes and I start enjoying it more.

#39 Edited by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
@vanek said:

I'm two days out but this is the most recent thread about the game so what the hell. I'll try and format my jumbled thoughts about the multiplayer ...

1. I don't like the maps. The vertical aspect is a nice addition but I don't like Overrun so I've basically got four maps that just don't feel as well designed as in the previous games. It could just be the amount of time since I last played Gears of War 3 but they seem smaller or more condensed meaning everyone just uses the Gnasher. I freely admit that I'm not great at these games but the second I switched to the Gnasher I started doing so much better.

2. The little changes don't really improve anything. The grenade changes and condensed maps lead to everyone spamming, the match constantly puts the best players in one team and the worst in the other (I've kept track from match to match) and the weapon selection doesn't make sense. I don't see how only being able to choose one weapon is an improvement and given that everyone drops the pistol at the first opportunity it just seems pointless. The lack of the DBNO system is also a shame as I found it rewarding and TDM being score based instead of respawn based isn't as fun. There was something amazing about watching a 1 vs 4 man comeback that now can't happen.

3. This is really a non issue for most people, but for weird people like me it stuck out that the previous game a lot of character skins for versus and this has something like 8. I know the story isn't about Marcus but locking him and other main characters behind preorders feels really shitty. I think there are 5/6 preorder skins and then 2 purchasable which combined with the amount of crap you pay more money for makes me feel bad every time I open the menu. The mutliplayer lacks content and if frankly if they must sell so much extra crap at least give me an option to hide it.

I have no problem with PCF changing things but I feel that some of them don't make sense, some remove what was unique about GoW and the others often simply don't work. There are some good changes, but the bad combined with how thin the content is feels bad. I supported GoW 3 and happily bought the season pass but I don't think I want to support this game at all. I'm not going to give up completely though, I'll keep playing and see if something changes and I start enjoying it more.

I've still been having a lot of fun with the game, but at the same time I still agree with most of what you're saying.

I don't much care for Rig, but I've found Streets and Library to be really fun. Library in particular has all of these weird ins and outs, like hidden passageways and there's all of these different layers to the map -- the overall design of the map just feels right, I think. But that's just a matter of taste. I've usually found that the team separations between randoms is usually fair too; there's often always one star player per team at least from my experience. I do especially agree that being forced to choose one primary weapon is weird and constrictive. Though I guess that's because of how much more viable they've made it for players to use other weapons. The ranged weaponry like Lancers and Hammerbursts in particular can very easily hold their own against Gnasher players now; I was actually able to get a score of like 24 kills to 3 deaths by using the Hammerburst.

In all honesty it may actually be a little overpowered, as the damage it can do is pretty damned nasty. I did initially use the Gnasher, and was getting surprisingly OK with it--enough that I could manage--but I decided to shelve it because it's so annoyingly inconsistent; there's been many a time where I'll unload like 3 close-range shots into a player and he'll then still be able to kill me with one. Plus I simply can't do the whole wall-bouncing thing, which is vital for Gnasher players, so I decided to stick with a ranged weapon for now.

Giving players access to more grenades I think is fine too. Most people use frags, but they can be easy enough to avoid if you keep an eye out; obviously there's always the chance that you can be blindsided by another player hurling a ninja grenade at you while you're otherwise occupied, but dems the breaks.

Though I do agree that the removal of the DBNO system is unfortunate, and given that scores now count up instead of giving each team a cache of lives that counts down, it means your team can easily fall at the last second because of your team's weaker players getting killed. Whereas in Gears 3 the match would eventually lead into a last man standing sorta deal once all lives are used.

Weirdly enough, though, the one complaint you've brought up that especially resonates with me is the lack of characters. Maybe it's a vanity sorta thing, but I always appreciate in being given a wide selection of multiplayer avatars, and Gears 3 gave you plenty to choose from. Whereas Judgment of course only has, I think, 8 default. What's especially annoying is even characters that you play as during Aftermath aren't available, like Clayton Carmine and Gears 3 Baird. It's the same damn engine after all, so it's annoying why they couldn't have just brought in all of the Gears 3 character skins alongside the new Judgment characters. Some of the selection is so weird too. Of all of the classic characters to bring back, they choose Tai and Kim? Tai is sorta the 'end game' character skin too, since he requires you unlocking every star. I've never been deep in the multiplayer so I couldn't say if he was especially popular or not, but I know enough that the Carmine brothers were favoured highly (I personally liked playing as Ben in Gears 3) so it's weird why they were never brought back.

That lack of cosmetic content carries over into weapon/armour skins I've noticed too. The idea of being rewarded with loot boxes is a sound one, but when there's so little to unlock--with the majority being placed behind an exclusive pay wall--it completely defeats the purpose of the system. Those skins are also pretty damn rare too; I'm often still just rewarded with pointless caches of experience. I'm into my first prestige or whatever and yet I've only unlocked two of the armour skins...

I still really enjoy the multiplayer, though, and that's precisely why the lack of content is so infuriating -- that's the primary grievance I have with the game. I otherwise think the multiplayer, while definitely different, is a lot of fun and I've been playing nothing else since its release.

EDIT: Oh, and removing the Locust characters for the regular multiplayer modes... Why? Why would they do that?

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#40 Edited by Vanek (381 posts) -

@yummylee said:

In all honesty it may actually be a little overpowered, as the damage it can do is pretty damned nasty. I did initially use the Gnasher, and was getting surprisingly OK with it--enough that I could manage--but I decided to shelve it because it's so annoyingly inconsistent; there's been many a time where I'll unload like 3 close-range shots into a player and he'll then still be able to kill me with one. Plus I simply can't do the whole wall-bouncing thing, which is vital for Gnasher players, so I decided to stick with a ranged weapon for now.

I've really noticed the inconsistency and it can be really frustrating at times. I don't know if it's me doing something wrong or the server/client seeing something different but I've had some deaths that made me want to scream. I've also had the odd stutter during some matches which makes me wonder if the servers are being wonky or if they changed the net code in a bad way.

@yummylee said:

Giving players access to more grenades I think is fine too. Most people use frags, but they can be easy enough to avoid if you keep an eye out; obviously there's always the chance that you can be blindsided by another player hurling a ninja grenade at you while you're otherwise occupied, but dems the breaks.

I dislike the fact that everyone just throws grenades for the hell of it because it's so easy. You can't stick them to walls anymore and it's so quick and easy to throw them when someone with a Gnasher gets close that it feels cheap. I even feel bad when I randomly throw one and catch someone by chance. I think the way it was before made you have to really think about switching to it and now that's lost. =(

@yummylee said:

Weirdly enough, though, the one complaint you've brought up that especially resonates with me is the lack of characters. Maybe it's a vanity sorta thing, but I always appreciate in being given a wide selection of multiplayer avatars, and Gears 3 gave you plenty to choose from. Whereas Judgment of course only has, I think, 8 default. What's especially annoying is even characters that you play as during Aftermath aren't available, like Clayton Carmine and Gears 3 Baird. It's the same damn engine after all, so it's annoying why they couldn't have just brought in all of the Gears 3 character skins alongside the new Judgment characters. Some of the selection is so weird too. Of all of the classic characters to bring back, they choose Tai and Kim? Tai is sorta the 'end game' character skin too, since he requires you unlocking every star. I've never been deep in the multiplayer so I couldn't say if he was especially popular or not, but I know enough that the Carmine brothers were favoured highly (I personally liked playing as Ben in Gears 3) so it's weird why they were never brought back.

That lack of cosmetic content carries over into weapon/armour skins I've noticed too. The idea of being rewarded with loot boxes is a sound one, but when there's so little to unlock--with the majority being placed behind an exclusive pay wall--it completely defeats the purpose of the system. Those skins are also pretty damn rare too; I'm often still just rewarded with pointless caches of experience. I'm into my first prestige or whatever and yet I've only unlocked two of the armour skins...

I still really enjoy the multiplayer, though, and that's precisely why the lack of content is so infuriating -- that's the primary grievance I have with the game. I otherwise think the multiplayer, while definitely different, is a lot of fun and I've been playing nothing else since its release.

I was thinking the same thing. The game is clearly borrowing a lot of GoW 3 so I bet they could have easily added more character skins from the previous game. Heck, someone from remnants from GoW 3 match types in the games code. The characters they do have are just weird, as I already mentioned, they lock the most important character from the franchise away as a preorder bonus for some reason. It also doesn't help that the skins they sell are so over priced! I checked a few out and some were nearly 400 points each. Fuck that.

#41 Edited by Yummylee (21208 posts) -

@vanek: I've experienced those stutters as well; my internet's fine, usually running at like 50-60mbps, and yet there's still many a time where it's like the game can't keep up with me when I'm charging through and it's almost like it'll 'pull me back' a little. It's made it especially infuriating should I attempt to sneak up to someone but will then invariably get pulled back a few steps.

Also, I completely forgot that you can't plant grenades anymore. Yeah, that's definitely a bit of a letdown. But I guess it's because of the philosophy they've had with Judgment, being that they clearly wanted this to be a much more frantic, less methodically paced shooter. Just have everybody running at one another for the most part. It's unfortunate that the series has gotten to be so relatively simplified compared to its predecessors, but at the same time this is the first Gears game where I feel like I have a chance to do well in a match, so I'm admittedly not quite broken up about it as much as some :P

Online
#42 Posted by Vanek (381 posts) -

@yummylee: I had no issues playing Gow 3 so I think it's on their end or a code thing. My Internet hasn't changed either so it can't be something on my end.

When you say the idea of was to make the game more frantic I understand the changes, but now it's lost some of what made it Gears in the first place. I'm doing worse because of the changes and with the matchmaking being frankly awful means I now keep getting put into matches with people far better than me. I end up getting stomped and barely have any fun. I went into some private bot matches to test the weapons earlier and actually ended up having way more fun because I felt like I had a decent chance.

Those bot matches made me realise I can live with the changes and some actually aren't so bad, but the Gnasher being fucked and the matchmaking straight up not doing what it's supposed to is a bummer.

#43 Edited by FourWude (2261 posts) -

Overrun is epic. EPIC FOR THE WIIIIN!

#44 Edited by Klei (1768 posts) -

@ravenlight said:

I'm going to take the controversial stance that Gears multi has never been good. I guess aside from Horde Mode.

I would say gears 3 is probably my favorite competitive multiplayer game ever. To each their own I guess.

I'm with ravenlight. I always thought Gears' MP to be... disappointing. I always thought, after Gears 1, that this series would be so insanely cool online, and unfortunately, it was dumbed down to shotgun fights and cover-slamming to gain speed. I really hate the whole '' roll forward and hip fire that shotgun''. To me, Gears was about taking cover and flanking, just like in the campaign.

That said, I bought Judgement and toyed with it a bit. I don't care for the lack of DBNO, since it actually makes guns a bit more lethal and forces people to think a bit more. What I don't like is the lack of multiplayer skins. What the hell happened? No more CoG vs Locust TDM? Now, everybody looks alike, because there seems to be less CoG skins than in Gears 3.

#45 Posted by Briggs713 (212 posts) -

Had a friend come up and visit yesterday to play this. Played through the campaign in about 7 hours and we agreed its the only weak Gears campaign. One felt small but had lots of variety and interesting encounters. Two had great set-piece moments and still had a lot of tight third-person shooting. Three goes heavy on the set-piece moments and added four-player combat (which opened things up). Judgement has no real big moments and you're rarely encouraged to fight in-cover (so it doesn't feel like a Gears game). The main story feels unnecessary and the Aftermath would've served better as another Gears 3 add-on. My friend and I tinkered with the multiplayer this morning and found nothing to like about the class-based Survival and Overrun modes. It's also pretty disgusting how little is included in this game in terms of maps, skins, modes etc. (4 maps for versus really?) and how much is being shoved to DLC. Judgement is an end of generation cash-grab and I feel like I'm getting less and less for $60 games. I'm probably going to go back and play Gears 3 and trade this in for something else.

#46 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1799 posts) -

DBNO is in campaign i thought. is it just removed in multiplayer?

#47 Edited by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@connerthekewlkid: Just multiplayer but they just added execution in so its in multiplayer now. Too bad this game still sucks though. I have put quite a bit of time into it trying to give it a fair chance but man.

Alright first off this campaign is hands down the worst in the series. Nothing interesting is happening, the characters have little to no personality, the chapters are ridiculously short to the point that nothing at all really happens in some of them, the AI for your teammates is the worst it has ever been like standing there walking into a wall through a full encounter, a good portion of the missions are just a watered down horde mode when there should be a horde mode in this game to begin with and alot of the mission just reuse the same environments over again.

As for the multiplayer yesterday they added execution and another map. Executuion sucks because the maps are designed so that it can sometime take forever to get to the downed guy because the maps have a bunch of verticle levels to them. The gnasher is honestly broken right now. No consistency whatsoever when it comes to gibbing. Stim grenades are crazy overpowered along with melee. Im fine with it going back to melee being a viable thing but when you are getting meleed from seriously 10 feet away there is something wrong. Stim grenades make you pretty much invincible and eliminate the great competitive gnasher battles from the previous games. The winner is now based on whether you have a stim grenade or if the random gibs work in your favor. Great they went from 4 maps to a whopping 5. Fuck this game and fuck People can fly for shitting all over what made these games great. Sorry for ranting but eh fuck it this game is shit.

#48 Posted by GunstarRed (4997 posts) -

I think I had the exact opposite experience. The AI in my game was consistently good, ridiculously accurate and completely fearless against the biggest of foes.

As for the MP which I have also played a ton of and being capable of competing now has been pretty damn great. I hate it and I've accepted it that I'm a grenade spammer and a shotgun-roller, but it feels good to be the top or even second player on a team. There is definitely some strange inconsistency with the shotgun close range, but I feel confident I can get kills now. Before I would run away at the smallest glance of two enemies across the map, now I'm roadie running right at them because I know I can take on two, in some cases three of them at a time and come out on top. I haven't had this much fun with the Gears MP since the first game. I'm pretty ok with the changes and even some of the maps have grown on me the more I have gotten used to their little quirks.

Online
#49 Edited by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
Online
#50 Posted by laserbolts (5310 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@gunstarred said:

I think I had the exact opposite experience. The AI in my game was consistently good, ridiculously accurate and completely fearless against the biggest of foes.

Indeed. Much like in Gears 3, playing it in single-player with the AI is ridiculously easy because of their overall effectiveness.

Well you guys are lucky because they have been completely useless to the point that they honestly stand there doing nothing most of the time.

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