Getting upset over a minor joke(minor spoiler ahead)

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#151 Posted by Ares42 (2794 posts) -

I find the more interesting part about this story to be that Sessler had higher expectations than this from a God of War game, as if it was some high-class drama or something. The way he put it it almost sounds like he took the franchise seriously...

#152 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior said:

@humanoid said:

@darji said:

Yeah and I am still figuring out how men in this thread could actually be upset about it when woman dont....

Lonely virgins trying to use feminism to get their dicks sucked.

This is nothing to do with being a "White Knight" it was just Sessler giving his honest reviews that he thought that segment was gross, Who is geekbrat and why should I care, this "women" seems like a really rational person in her responses with her 184 followers I should really pay attention to her right, this is what makes me laugh about these situations you see a "women" say something that is what you are thinking and you treat her like your saviour to your cause, forget that she used the phrase "Shove it up your ass". Me like Sessler just wish games would grow the fuck up, curb stomp a women to death, BROZ B4 HOZ, there is nothing wrong with the saying, it would fit right in on a COD player card motto, but just the context of it and the timing was really fucked up.

So God of War=All video games?

No but when it's made by Sony, who is one of the big 3 that represents video games, you would think they would of thought twice about it.

#153 Posted by hollitz (1609 posts) -

@darji:

I think those are two different things.

I could be wrong, but isn't censorship in Germany more of a government imposed thing? Members of our government have been trying to censor video games for a while and it never goes anywhere.

Besides, I don't see any direct correlation between calling out developers/publishers for being insensitive and games being censored.

Sucks about censorship in Germany though. Seems archaic.

#154 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior:

First of all a prostitute is not sexist it is a job.nothing more. Hoe is a slang again it is a job nothing more. Secondly. This saying was used alot before but now its getting offensive in a M rated game? Seriously grow the fuck up. It is as offensive as saying fuck i an video game. it is a slang nothing more. A prostitute is not sexist so is Ho also not sexist at all. And again this was not for beating up a woman like sessler implied it was for choosing Friendship over the with of his mothers....

#155 Posted by Brodehouse (10125 posts) -

If bros before hos (and it's hos, not hoes. Just like its not broes) is misogynistic, does that mean chicks before dicks is now misandrist?

OF COURSE NOT GROW UP

#156 Posted by ReCkLeSs_X (461 posts) -

This is quite obviously an overreaction to me. It brings up something that definitely should be discussed, but as some others have pointed out, this is sheer lazy criticism.

#157 Posted by Bismarck (432 posts) -

#158 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

#159 Posted by laserbolts (5365 posts) -

All I got out of this is some jackass is looking for attention on the internet because he isnt on TV anymore even if it means making something out of nothing.

#160 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@darji said:

@bourbon_warrior:

First of all a prostitute is not sexist it is a job.nothing more. Hoe is a slang again it is a job nothing more. Secondly. This saying was used alot before but now its getting offensive in a M rated game? Seriously grow the fuck up. It is as offensive as saying fuck i an video game. it is a slang nothing more. A prostitute is not sexist so is Ho also not sexist at all. And again this was not for beating up a woman like sessler implied it was for choosing Friendship over the with of his mothers....

Ugh, you are just uneducated. I am sick of pointed out the obvious to you. Maybe a women who is not a prostitute wouldn't really take to people calling her a ho...

#161 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior said:

@darji said:

@bourbon_warrior:

First of all a prostitute is not sexist it is a job.nothing more. Hoe is a slang again it is a job nothing more. Secondly. This saying was used alot before but now its getting offensive in a M rated game? Seriously grow the fuck up. It is as offensive as saying fuck i an video game. it is a slang nothing more. A prostitute is not sexist so is Ho also not sexist at all. And again this was not for beating up a woman like sessler implied it was for choosing Friendship over the with of his mothers....

Ugh, you are just uneducated. I am sick of pointed out the obvious to you. Maybe a women who is not a prostitute wouldn't really take to people calling her a ho...

No I am not I am just not offended by anything trival as that. And I am glad my friends are the same. Which by the way also include intelligent women who are thinking that this is an absolute joke.

#162 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@darji said:

@bourbon_warrior said:

@darji said:

@bourbon_warrior:

First of all a prostitute is not sexist it is a job.nothing more. Hoe is a slang again it is a job nothing more. Secondly. This saying was used alot before but now its getting offensive in a M rated game? Seriously grow the fuck up. It is as offensive as saying fuck i an video game. it is a slang nothing more. A prostitute is not sexist so is Ho also not sexist at all. And again this was not for beating up a woman like sessler implied it was for choosing Friendship over the with of his mothers....

Ugh, you are just uneducated. I am sick of pointed out the obvious to you. Maybe a women who is not a prostitute wouldn't really take to people calling her a ho...

No I am not I am just not offended by anything trival as that. And I am glad my friends are the same. Which by the way also include intelligent women who are thinking that this is an absolute joke.

Haha alright buddy, I'm just going to take out of this conversation that calling a women a prositute who isn't one isn't sexist. Haha take it easy dude.

#163 Posted by stryker1121 (1587 posts) -

These conversations always seem to come back to, "I'm not offended, why should anyone else be." It's boring. Kratos curb-stomping a woman then getting a 'bros before hos' achievement is pretty crude in context, and not ever clever. "misogynist" may be an overstatement, but if the devs went w/ 'bros before foes' then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

#164 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

These conversations always seem to come back to, "I'm not offended, why should anyone else be." It's boring. Kratos curb-stomping a woman then getting a 'bros before hos' achievement is pretty crude in context, and not ever clever. "misogynist" may be an overstatement, but if the devs went w/ 'bros before foes' then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

that is not why you get the trophy.. Seriously...... You get the Trophy because Orcus choosed the friendship with Kratos instead of his mothers wishes. The curb stump happens like 2 minutes before you even get the trophy....

#165 Posted by Bismarck (432 posts) -

These conversations always seem to come back to, "I'm not offended, why should anyone else be." It's boring. Kratos curb-stomping a woman then getting a 'bros before hos' achievement is pretty crude in context, and not ever clever. "misogynist" may be an overstatement, but if the devs went w/ 'bros before foes' then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

As so many people explained, he doesn't get the trophy cuz he smashed her face, you get the trophy cuz a bro helped you out, by not obeying his ho mother

#166 Edited by Largo6661 (341 posts) -

Personally I have always found God of Wars depiction and attitude toward women as being kind or gross, this trophy is just the final nail in the coffin. I'm not buying it.

#167 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Personally I have always found God of Wars depiction and attitude toward women as being kind or gross, this trophy is just the final nail in the coffin. I'm not buying it.

which is your good right to think like that. I am not buying Twillight because how they objectify men in this movie series. But I am adult enough to not make such an childish act out of it.

#168 Posted by Demoskinos (15131 posts) -

Well nothing left to talk about here apparently Sony is patching the trophy to have an alternate name. Or so says Joystiq.

Online
#169 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3823 posts) -

I think there was an overreaction to this trophy after seeing it in context, honestly, but people who are against the discussion of "sexism in games" are using this to point at and say, "Look, your argument is stupid! There's no sexism in games cuz this thing wasn't really that big a deal!" which is disingenuous They're changing the name of the Trophy now, and the new name is probably more clever anyway. Can we drop it?

#170 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

Well nothing left to talk about here apparently Sony is patching the trophy to have an alternate name. Or so says Joystiq.

but that is exactly the problem. They are patching it because of outside pressure which was stupid to begin with. Again its cesoring due to pressure.

#171 Posted by Largo6661 (341 posts) -

@darji: How is it childish to not buy something because I find it distasteful?

#172 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji: How is it childish to not buy something because I find it distasteful?

No thats not what I wanted to say..

it is childish to make such an uproar like Sessler did and not even apologizing for getting it wrong. Not buying it is the right thing to do if you dont like it.

#173 Edited by lebkin (331 posts) -

@darji said:

@demoskinos said:

Well nothing left to talk about here apparently Sony is patching the trophy to have an alternate name. Or so says Joystiq.

but that is exactly the problem. They are patching it because of outside pressure which was stupid to begin with. Again its cesoring due to pressure.

I am curious to what harm you see in the change. It takes very little effort to appease those who are offended, with no harm to those who are not. This is not even a content change - the game itself is exactly the same as it always was.

On a broader note, this is NOT censorship, despite the general please as such. Censorship is "suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body." No one forced Sony to take this action. They did it merely as a voluntary response to public pressure, not as a dictated action from on-high. Sony changing a trophy name as a PR move is no different than any other voluntary PR action, ala giving away free games as an apology for PSN problems.

#174 Edited by Largo6661 (341 posts) -

@darji: I guess it left a really bad taste in his mouth I cant blame him. And to be honest I don't think he made a fuss just to get headlines he did it because it bothered him. It was offensive and misogynistic, Kratos beating the harpy thing (what ever she was) to death was fine after all God of War is violent as hell but the trophy name was kind of weird and shouldn't have been there full stop. You would think after a year of discussions about sexism in video games Sony would have been more watchful for things like this.

#175 Posted by Saethir (352 posts) -

If anything, I'm offended by the joke being dumb and kinda lazy.

#176 Edited by phantomzxro (1583 posts) -

@anwar: Thanks for posting that i was thinking that one part in gow 3 were you let the women hold the gate open was way worse and over the line then this was.

#177 Posted by Nivash (241 posts) -

The central issue aside, I think it's interesting how this controversy shows the inherent meta nature of trophies and achievements. Like many have pointed out GoW has always been crass, gory and sexist - but it has been that way in universe. Kratos is an anti-hero at best or a villain protagonist at worst and players are allowed to think and feel whatever they want about what he does. But for some people, this trophy broke the fourth wall and essentially came of as the a kind of editorializing: like the game developers not merely approving of his tendency towards violence against women but outright applauding it.

I've been trying to come up with a metaphor for something equivalent in movies or television, but I can't really come up with anything. That's interesting too. Trophies and achievements have evidently evolved to be capable of having an effect on the very narrative of games these days, far beyond the mere braggards rights they started out as.

#178 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji: I guess it left a really bad taste in his mouth I cant blame him. And to be honest I don't think he made a fuss just to get headlines he did it because it bothered him. It was offensive and misogynistic, Kratos beating the harpy thing (what ever she was) to death was fine after all God of War is violent as hell but the trophy name was kind of weird and shouldn't have been there full stop. You would think after a year of discussions about sexism in video games Sony would have been more watchful for things like this.

again it has nothing to do with the viloened scene... And why should Sony be more watchful of a think that is totally stupid.

#179 Edited by Largo6661 (341 posts) -

@darji: Its not stupid because considering the general sentiment of this year the last thing any game company needs is to be associated with misogynistic/sexist content. Sony should have been smart enough to pull the trophy pre-release. And no, its not the violence that's the problem it how its framed in line with the trophy and the tone the two convey when combined.

#180 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji: Its not stupid because considering the general sentiment of this year the last thing any game company needs is to be associated with misogynistic/sexist content. Sony should have been smart enough to pull the trophy pre-release. And no, its not the violence that's the problem it how its framed in line with the trophy and the tone the two convey when combined.

how is this sexist in the game. Again it is a phrase that is sooo old it should not even a bit offensive anymore. You heard it in stuff like House MD in the big bang theory and so on. and what is so bad about how these two convey? It is only offensive if you are stupid and can not think about context and how it is said....

And maybe even Sony would have thought that people cant be so stupid to be offended by that. Guess they were wrong.. That is also a reason why you only see withe males as main chracter because it is way to easy to offend stupid people by using a black character or even worse a woman. Because if you do that the game gets over analyzed for every fucking minor thing.

WE should treat Videogames as any other form of media but what we are doing currently is just ridiculous.

#181 Posted by Largo6661 (341 posts) -

@darji:The God of War games are sexist just look at how causally Kratos killed that girl in three, or how the majority of women in the god of war games are generally depicted as sex objects to be used and thrown away. Your telling me that the depiction of men and women is equal in God of War? But in the past that stuff was conveyed in universe and it was fine that way, but this trophy allowed the developers to almost happily endorse brutality against women. Its because the term "bros before hoes" breaks the forth wall and allows the developers to directly comment on the violence and make light of it. When it was said in house or big bang theory it didn't directly follow a act of violence it isn't the same thing. Look I'm not saying God of War is the worst in the industry but its time that the game industry as a whole starts having a more adverse reaction to off hand sexism, referring to a women as a hoe is offensive. Yes the phrase is old and used but it doesn't change the fact that in this context it does come off as immature and sexist. And also I don't see the logic behind associating stupidity and being bothered by this trophy. Those "stupid people" just don't share the same opinions as you, that doesn't make them stupid.

#182 Edited by sravankb (118 posts) -

It's not misogynistic. It's just crude and its attempt at trying to be edgy is painfully unfunny.

God of War comes off as an 8 year old kid who still thinks it's cool to go "tits! fuck! kill!". It's embarrassing to watch a kid do that to himself, and far worse when it's a multi-million dollar company doing the same.

Funny how the series is rated M for mature, while it showcases decidedly immature nonsense.

#183 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@largo6661 said:

@darji:The God of War games are sexist just look at how causally Kratos killed that girl in three, or how the majority of women in the god of war games are generally depicted as sex objects to be used and thrown away. Your telling me that the depiction of men and women is equal in God of War? But in the past that stuff was conveyed in universe and it was fine that way, but this trophy allowed the developers to almost happily endorse brutality against women. Its because the term "bros before hoes" breaks the forth wall and allows the developers to directly comment on the violence and make light of it. When it was said in house or big bang theory it didn't directly follow a act of violence it isn't the same thing. Look I'm not saying God of War is the worst in the industry but its time that the game industry as a whole starts having a more adverse reaction to off hand sexism, referring to a women as a hoe is offensive. Yes the phrase is old and used but it doesn't change the fact that in this context it does come off as immature and sexist. And also I don't see the logic behind associating stupidity and being bothered by this trophy. Those "stupid people" just don't share the same opinions as you, that doesn't make them stupid.

First of all Kratos kills everything. He is no woman hater he is just on a rage It would be totally wired if he just kills men and saves or does not kill any woman at all. Secondly you can totally argue if these sex minigmaes for example are sexist or not. That would be an actual discussion at least. And most importantly... This Trophy has NOTHING to do with the violence against anyone.

You get the trophy because Orcus decided to help a friend instead of his mothers. Orcus did not even do anything violent at all. Also this trophy pops up over 2 minutes after the actually curb stump and violence against this furrry Again bros before hos is just a figure of speech. It is not sexist at all it is not against woman. It is just firendship over a Woman which is a great saying in my opinion.

Why is this so hard to understand. If a black guy says "my Nigger" for example it is also no offensive against anyone it is just a saying..... People need really to understand the difference of an actual sexist offensive sentence and such phrases. Seriously learn to see thing in an actual context.

Adam Sessler was totally wrong in this and he should apologize for this stupid reaction he had.

#184 Edited by Yummylee (22503 posts) -

@largo6661: Mother of God... of War.

OK so, the God of War series is not sexist nor is it misogynistic. Kratos slaughters just about as many male characters as he does female, if not more, a lot more in fact. And the scene where he kills the poseidon woman in GoW3? He pretty much does the exact same thing in God of War 2 on two different occasions to male NPCs. He'll drag them to the book he needs them to translate, and then kill them so as to offer the blood sacrifice it required or whatever. Point is he used a male character, dragging him along as he pleads for mercy, purely to solve a puzzle. Kratos will kill anything that gets in his way, he doesn't discriminate.

And as everyone has already been explaining, the ''bros before hos'' trophy has nothing to do with the violence in the scene. Referring to a female antagonist character as a 'ho' should also then be just as offensive as whenever a male antagonist, or any male character really, is referred to as a 'dick'. Hell, remember all of that Bulletstorm marketing? There was a woman who explicitly stated that Grayson, the male protagonist, is ''kind of a dick''. Nobody batted an eyelash, well besides at how ridiculously stupid the marketing was. But nobody was claiming that she was being sexist, and rightfully so because she wasn't.

Is GoW immature? Of course it is, as it has been since the beginning because that's what God of War is. God of War has a notoriously OTT sense of tone and its stuck to it; there's no reason for it to change, unless the developers themselves wanted to try a little something different. Though some generally better writing and more creative trophy titles would be nice. Because as I've said before, 'bros before hos' is still a really stupid phrase. But that's all it is, a failed attempt at a little bit of broad humour.

EDIT: Crud, I was still busy writing this up to realise someone had already posted above me...

EDIT2: Also, I think you should give the random PC Game SWAT video another watch. But you better brace yourself for when both Vinny and Dave call the old lady that kept killing them a ''bitch''.

#185 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

@darji said:

@largo6661 said:

@darji: How is it childish to not buy something because I find it distasteful?

No thats not what I wanted to say..

it is childish to make such an uproar like Sessler did and not even apologizing for getting it wrong. Not buying it is the right thing to do if you dont like it.

I hate this argument, how are you supposed to not buy something, before you own it, and presumably, are able to use it? If you want to tell me not to buy GOW2 because I didn't like GOW1, ok, or not to buy EA games because of my prior experiences, ok.

But to tell some one to not buy a product, unless they like it, before they own it, is a very bad argument.

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