Car Selection Question, also rally question

#1 Posted by thehuntsmen5434 (434 posts) -

 Skip to the numbered summarized questions if you don't want to read wall of text.
 
I was wondering if someone could explain the stats on the cars that they show to determine Acceleration, top speed, and handling.  I base my purchase off Horse Power, but I'm learning that doesn't always make your car the fastest, or have the best handling and control.  I was trying to do the level 15 GT world cup with a Dodge Viper ACS so I upgraded it and it ended up with 850 HP.  I got dominated so bad, then I bought a like 465 italia (don't remember the name) ferrari and completely wiped the floor with everyone even though it only had like 584 something HP, and it had better control, acceleration, and top speed than the viper.
All I did was put medium racing tires on the Ferrari.  Also got silver in all the intermediate AMG nurburing challenges with what seemed like the perfect car for it (AMG SLG 10), but when my Viper is going through that course its a mess even though it should be more powerful.  Also can someone explain how to race rally,  My rally car will like slow down on its own sometimes, and not accelerate on turns. Soooooo.........
 
1.  What do all the stats really mean when picking a car,  Horsepower obviously isn't the only factor. 
 
2.  How to properly race a rally car.  (could just provide a link to another thread)
 
Thanks!

#2 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -

The reason higher horsepower isn't translating directly to "better performance" is mostly due to the weight of the car, but also due in part to the drivetrain of the car. To put it in straightforward, general terms - a light hatchback with 100BHP is going to accelerate and handle better than a heavy car with the same horsepower behind it. That's why you'll often see commercial 5-door road cars with around 300bhp - this is simply the power they need to move; a smaller car won't need as much. 
 
The Viper is kind of a modern-day muscle car. Not specifically speaking about the Viper here, but muscle cars in general were always developed with straight-line performance in mind. They have massive amounts of power behind them to get them going fast as quickly as possible (high acceleration), and weren't necessarily developed with cornering in mind. You can get around a technical track like the Nurburgring in a Viper, but you'll have to be a lot more careful going around and accelerating out of corners, especially since the rear wheel drive, front-engine car will have a tendency to slide the back out if you lose any rear traction (to explain - the placement of the engine at the front means the weight of the car is biased towards the front of the car. Physics will dictate that if the car does lose control, it's going to want to spin with the front of the car as it's axis - ie. the car will slide from the back and be difficult to put back on course). This means you'll lose a lot of time to cars developed specifically for this type of racing. A Ferrari is much more of a racing car, in the sense that it sacrifices raw power for control and manoeuvrability (although obviously still retaining the ability to reach competitive high speeds). Most, if not all, Ferraris have MR drivetrains (mid engine, rear wheel drive), but despite being rear-wheel drive like the Viper, are engineered to be a lot more controllable around corners. The position of the engine at the middle makes the car turn more easily, and due to the weight of the car being biased towards the rear, the car will have more of a tendency to oversteer when accelerating (the front of the car having a tendency to point inwards, essentially turning with the rear of the car as its axis - pretty much the opposite of the front-engine car) - when controlled properly, this will allow you to take corners a lot faster. Added to that, the aerodynamics of a Ferrari's chassis are specifically engineered to keep the car stuck to the road when cornering at high speeds. 
 
Hope that explanation helps a bit, even it is bordering on rambling.  
 
As for the rally cars, you need to anticipate every corner and get your car positioned correctly to take those corners at the correct speed and angle. That's probably a bit vague, but it really is a case of getting the feel for the car and the terrain. Try to decelerate and accelerate smoothly and gradually, as any harsh movement of the wheels will likely cause them to spin in the gravel or snow. You need to take advantage of the inevitable loss of traction to get your car pointed in the right direction out of, and when entering, corners.

#3 Edited by Darklight (212 posts) -

 I'll do my best to answer you. I'm no expert mind you so my answer will be pretty basic:
 
1. When I pick a car, I normally check 2  things on the stats. First thing, like you, is the hp and is pretty self-explanatory. Second one, the weight. Since a car with a lot of hp but pretty heavy will probably brake/take corner/accelerate a lot slower than a car with a weight significantly lower at the expend of some hp. I don't know the ratio of weight/hp gain but 100-200kg can make a lot of difference on the car with similar hp.  And yeah, viper with 850hp start to be a little bit tricky to control even with racing soft tire. It can kill on straight road but if there's a lot of corner, yeah, need to be careful on the throttle.
 
2. Normally what I do with rally car, beside trying to give it more HP is tuning it with weight reduction/changing clutch/transmission. The way I see it, the most vital part in rally challenge is being able to decelerate/accelerate as fast as possible on corner and the focus is  less on top speed. So, even if I didnt do that, you probably want to invest in a fast ratio transmission on a 4WD. That being said, I'm still trying to figure out how rally car work and what make one better than an other.
 
That's about it, hope it helps.

#4 Posted by thehuntsmen5434 (434 posts) -
@Binman88: @Darklight: Wow thanks a lot for the detailed answers, i hope others read this and learn something like I did.  I dont know if somewhere in GT5 it explains how the cars work, but if it doesn't i find it annoying that I have to resort to posting on forums to get information like this.  Then after its explained I feel a greater appreciation for GT5's realism and how Im not picking a car based on a 1-10 scale of accerlation, top speed, and handling.  Again, thanks.
#5 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -
@thehuntsmen5434: If you check the in game manual, section 15 covers many of the different settings adjustments and what impact they have on the handling of the car. They don't go into much detail about drivetrains or anything like that, but they cover a lot of the theoretical stuff about wheel settings (angle of the wheels, ride height, spring strength etc) and aerodynamics - mainly they talk about the stuff you can actually tweak. It would have been nice though to have a more detailed section about specific car types and what the advantages and disadvantages are, for sure.  
 
Once you get a feel for how cars handle with different drivetrains and weights, you should be able to make a more educated assumption about a car before driving it, therefore making it easier to select the right car for the right event.
#6 Edited by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Binman88 said:

" The reason higher horsepower isn't translating directly to "better performance" is mostly due to the weight of the car, but also due in part to the drivetrain of the car. To put it in straightforward, general terms - a light hatchback with 100BHP is going to accelerate and handle better than a heavy car with the same horsepower behind it. That's why you'll often see commercial 5-door road cars with around 300bhp - this is simply the power they need to move; a smaller car won't need as much.  The Viper is kind of a modern-day muscle car. Not specifically speaking about the Viper here, but muscle cars in general were always developed with straight-line performance in mind. They have massive amounts of power behind them to get them going fast as quickly as possible (high acceleration), and weren't necessarily developed with cornering in mind. You can get around a technical track like the Nurburgring in a Viper, but you'll have to be a lot more careful going around and accelerating out of corners, especially since the rear wheel drive, front-engine car will have a tendency to slide the back out if you lose any rear traction (to explain - the placement of the engine at the front means the weight of the car is biased towards the front of the car. Physics will dictate that if the car does lose control, it's going to want to spin with the front of the car as it's axis - ie. the car will slide from the back and be difficult to put back on course). This means you'll lose a lot of time to cars developed specifically for this type of racing. A Ferrari is much more of a racing car, in the sense that it sacrifices raw power for control and manoeuvrability (although obviously still retaining the ability to reach competitive high speeds). Most, if not all, Ferraris have MR drivetrains (mid engine, rear wheel drive), but despite being rear-wheel drive like the Viper, are engineered to be a lot more controllable around corners. The position of the engine at the middle makes the car turn more easily, and due to the weight of the car being biased towards the rear, the car will have more of a tendency to oversteer when accelerating (the front of the car having a tendency to point inwards, essentially turning with the rear of the car as its axis - pretty much the opposite of the front-engine car) - when controlled properly, this will allow you to take corners a lot faster. Added to that, the aerodynamics of a Ferrari's chassis are specifically engineered to keep the car stuck to the road when cornering at high speeds.  Hope that explanation helps a bit, even it is bordering on rambling.   As for the rally cars, you need to anticipate every corner and get your car positioned correctly to take those corners at the correct speed and angle. That's probably a bit vague, but it really is a case of getting the feel for the car and the terrain. Try to decelerate and accelerate smoothly and gradually, as any harsh movement of the wheels will likely cause them to spin in the gravel or snow. You need to take advantage of the inevitable loss of traction to get your car pointed in the right direction out of, and when entering, corners. "

Took me a while to test it out.  
 

Even though the Ferrari was two seconds faster then the Viper, this was on the ring where that 2 seconds is basically just one percent difference. These times were done on Sports tires: Soft btw

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