Gran Turismo 5 rewards system

Posted by theshape108 (10 posts) -

I want to love GT5, I really do.  I poured so many hours into GT3 and GT4 is insane to even think about it.  But GT5 just thwarts my love at every possible turn.  Everytime they patch it I run back like a love sick puppy to try and see if now it'll be fun to play and every time I my heart stomped on like my high school prom.  First it was the ridiculous load times and installs, then it was the utterly contrived and useless menu system, then it was the remote play functionality that required me to run my game all day long, then it was the broken GT PSP integration, etc. etc.  
 
Now again, I constantly go back to it because the racing is fun, but at this point I feel that its transition from a hardcore racing sim that you have to spend hours upon hours at, into almost a casual title.  I play it for 30-40 minutes here and there.  With no real endurance racing series and individual racing series that take mere hours to beat it really begs the question of re-playability.  I mean was it really that hard to add a few more racing tiers and levels into the game?  Need for Speed Shift had the same issue where you got to max level and got all the best cars before finishing half the game, so why bother with the other races.  In GT5 you can't get to the really good damage modeling until you get to a high level but you'll have long finished all the races in the game and wont even by at level 20 out of 40, so why bother getting to max level?  Other then a mad desire to own nice cars from history, cars I already own in GT3 and GT4.  
 
The real point of this was to talk about my biggest pain point of individual races and racing series in GT5.  Mainly the rewards.  Now the experience earned seems to scale based on your car in comparison to the A.I. cars, which is fine, that actually in a rare instance makes sense.  No the problem is the money reward.  Once you get to the Extreme Series you'll notice that almost every race requires a 20 million dollar car, and features 5 races at around 25 laps each, with a 40-50 thousand dollar reward.  Now that would mean you would have to do those races something like 400 times to pay back for the initial investment on the car, and then you would have to do that 9 times over.  That's something like 3600 races to win 9 series events.  But to put a point on that there is the NASCAR series which requires a 500,000 dollar car, and features 5, 5 lap races with 70 thousand dollar rewards....so thats kinda fucked up.  I mean is everyone at Polyphony just caught up on Yamaguchi's mad desires for more paint colors and shinier wheels that they forgot to even look at the basic math behind things?  Maybe I am missing the point, maybe the driving is supposed to be so good that you don't mind doing 3600 races, maybe Clive Barker's Jericho isn't a terrible game...no wait none of that's true, and even if its the intent it's so glorious misplaced that I actually feel sorry for who came up with it. 
 
As it is GT5 remains the best driving simulator wrapped in the worst menu structure, and still not a very good racing game.  They can continue to patch, but the priority seems to be making new features while the core game goes untouched despite being flawed in so many ways.  I doubt this will ever be the game that I wanted it to be, but I'll keep plugging away while waiting for my dinner to finish so I can play a real video game.  
 
Peace, TheShape108.

#1 Posted by theshape108 (10 posts) -

I want to love GT5, I really do.  I poured so many hours into GT3 and GT4 is insane to even think about it.  But GT5 just thwarts my love at every possible turn.  Everytime they patch it I run back like a love sick puppy to try and see if now it'll be fun to play and every time I my heart stomped on like my high school prom.  First it was the ridiculous load times and installs, then it was the utterly contrived and useless menu system, then it was the remote play functionality that required me to run my game all day long, then it was the broken GT PSP integration, etc. etc.  
 
Now again, I constantly go back to it because the racing is fun, but at this point I feel that its transition from a hardcore racing sim that you have to spend hours upon hours at, into almost a casual title.  I play it for 30-40 minutes here and there.  With no real endurance racing series and individual racing series that take mere hours to beat it really begs the question of re-playability.  I mean was it really that hard to add a few more racing tiers and levels into the game?  Need for Speed Shift had the same issue where you got to max level and got all the best cars before finishing half the game, so why bother with the other races.  In GT5 you can't get to the really good damage modeling until you get to a high level but you'll have long finished all the races in the game and wont even by at level 20 out of 40, so why bother getting to max level?  Other then a mad desire to own nice cars from history, cars I already own in GT3 and GT4.  
 
The real point of this was to talk about my biggest pain point of individual races and racing series in GT5.  Mainly the rewards.  Now the experience earned seems to scale based on your car in comparison to the A.I. cars, which is fine, that actually in a rare instance makes sense.  No the problem is the money reward.  Once you get to the Extreme Series you'll notice that almost every race requires a 20 million dollar car, and features 5 races at around 25 laps each, with a 40-50 thousand dollar reward.  Now that would mean you would have to do those races something like 400 times to pay back for the initial investment on the car, and then you would have to do that 9 times over.  That's something like 3600 races to win 9 series events.  But to put a point on that there is the NASCAR series which requires a 500,000 dollar car, and features 5, 5 lap races with 70 thousand dollar rewards....so thats kinda fucked up.  I mean is everyone at Polyphony just caught up on Yamaguchi's mad desires for more paint colors and shinier wheels that they forgot to even look at the basic math behind things?  Maybe I am missing the point, maybe the driving is supposed to be so good that you don't mind doing 3600 races, maybe Clive Barker's Jericho isn't a terrible game...no wait none of that's true, and even if its the intent it's so glorious misplaced that I actually feel sorry for who came up with it. 
 
As it is GT5 remains the best driving simulator wrapped in the worst menu structure, and still not a very good racing game.  They can continue to patch, but the priority seems to be making new features while the core game goes untouched despite being flawed in so many ways.  I doubt this will ever be the game that I wanted it to be, but I'll keep plugging away while waiting for my dinner to finish so I can play a real video game.  
 
Peace, TheShape108.

#2 Posted by doejonathan (172 posts) -

I agree with almost all the points you make, it's astonishing how a triple A title can feature so many bad design choices. It still bothers me that when I want to change the music volume because the car I'm driving is louder than I expected, I need to exit the race, go to my My Home (that's not a typo), and look at a loading screen for the options menu. As in, the options menu has a loading screen, there's some Cell processing for ya.  
 
I do like to point out that you can acquire a Nascar by enduring Jeff Gordon moaning at you constantly in the Special Event section. (To make it a bit more bearable, you can opt to make bad "That's what your wife said" jokes, it works with every line Gordon says.) 
You can get a Jaguar XJ13 by winning a 3 (?) hour-ish endurance race, which is a great car for the Historic Race Car event in the Expert Series. Finally, I believe you can win a  Formula Gran Turismo in one of the B-spec endurance races, but I'm not sure. You could ask someone to lend/share you a car on the forums if you're in need. 
But I understand the complaints, it should be a challenge to get some of the special cars, but in some cases it feels like something went wrong in the localization where the listed prices are in yen and the race rewards feel like they're in USD. 
 
Bon appétit

#3 Posted by Binman88 (3684 posts) -

There are a lot of problems with the game that's for sure, but I'm wondering what you mean by having to buy a 20 million dollar car for each race in the extreme series? You make plenty of otherwise valid points (especially about the reward money), but don't sully your argument with exaggerated nonsense. I could list off specific cars to purchase for each of the 9 events and still wouldn't come close to a total figure of 20 million - and that's only if you want cars that guarantee success. If you're willing to use a car that's more on par with the competition, therefore making the racing more challenging, you could spend even less. Also, with a recent patch, the online car sharing system is now incredibly valuable. You wouldn't have to spend a penny to win the entire extreme series (or arguably the entire game) - you could just borrow cars from your PSN friends for use in any A-spec and B-spec events you like.

#4 Posted by eroticfishcake (7782 posts) -
Concerning the cars you'll need to race those events, it may be a good idea to borrow some cars from your PSN friends to save yourself some cash as Binman pointed out. If not, the Online Car Dealership ought to be your best alternative. If you need some cars for the extreme series I've got all the right ones you need if you want to borrow some of mine.
#5 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

The core gameplay is the driving which is fine. The frills is having more races and easier way to make more money which is what the patches are about. 

#6 Posted by theshape108 (10 posts) -

Binman is right I did exaggerate, I unfortunately wrote that right after finishing up the NASCAR series and was frustrated so I didn't take all the events into consideration.  You can win the events with cars equal to the ones the A.I. is driving, what is everyone's opinion on the A.I.?  I never really tried out the car sharing or online dealership stuff, I typically only game single-player except for Resistance 2 and Killzone 2, so I don't have anyone on my list to share cars with.  But that stuff works pretty well?
 
And yes StaticFalconar, I agree that the core gameplay is the best.  The way cars fight you under hard breaking, the way they slide if you get on the gas too soon through a corner.  It's brilliant.  That's why I want to really love that game. 

#7 Posted by Binman88 (3684 posts) -
@theshape108: As with any game, the AI is limited in what it can do. It's nowhere near as bad as some people have claimed (for example, the AI will get out of your way if you're stopped in the middle of a track, if they're given the reasonable time to react and change course), but most of the time they behave too predictably to make for really exciting races. 
 
The car sharing stuff is really straightforward. You can choose up to 6 cars to "share" online at any given time, and anyone on your friend's list can borrow any of those 6 cars for use in A or B spec events, via the community tab in GT5. The online dealership is a means to combat some of the frustration players would have trying to find a specific car (like the Formula GT for example). Ordinarily, you'd have to wait until it showed up in the used car dealership, but with the online dealership it's there all the time (or at least until Polyphony decide to remove it, though I doubt they intend to). 
#8 Posted by Sander (409 posts) -
@theshape108 said:
"Need for Speed Shift had the same issue where you got to max level and got all the best cars before finishing half the game, so why bother with the other races. "
"Best" is a subjective term and GT5 has tons of variables so there are many, many "best" cars for a given situation. Are you racing in a room that allows assists, what's the PP, what track are you on, are race cars permitted, what time of day is it? You have to take all that into account to find the best car for that moment so with all those different variables, there are 200+ hundred "best" cars. 
 
Even with relentless duping, I still have some great cars to obtain like the FTO Touring car, CLK-GTR, that $10million Alfa and a few others.
#9 Posted by theshape108 (10 posts) -
@Sander: 
 
Excellent point, the difference here is cars you want to own vs. cars you need to own to win the racing series.  If you're just looking for the best car to win races then the by the time you finish the single player races you'll already have the Formula Gran Turismo.  Where as I wouldn't own the Ferrari F40, which is probably my favorite car ever made, because I didn't need it.  The key here for me is that I played GT4 for 300-400 hours and never once did a single online race, as a result of that I expect the same amount of hours out of just playing this game without ever having to go online.  So telling me there are tons of "best" cars you need for given online situations holds no meaning with me.  
 
But if you're looking at it from a purely car collectors standpoint then yeah absolutely there are more then 200 best cars, I mean one of the first things I did was buy the Daihatsu Midget and put about 200,000 into upgrading it because I love beating Skylines with it. 
#10 Posted by Sander (409 posts) -

Just like the dude gritting his teeth that Castlevania is no longer a 2D sidescroller, your expectations are antiquated. The single player as little more than a tutorial grind, as it should be. If they concentrated anymore on single player and any less on online, it would be a poor game because this isn't 7yrs ago and online is where it's at.
 
It's the reason that this is the greatest racing game I've ever played. The PP system brilliantly evens the playing field for different types of cars and tracks and throws them into races that are often decided at the final corner.  Race after race fighting tooth+nail coming down to the wire against real opponents while the clever penalty system keeps everybody from stepping over the line. 

#11 Edited by Bouke (1401 posts) -

I've put some serious time into GT5 and managed to finish all the A-spec races (except the endurance races) and most of the B-spec races. But after all the patches some of my problems with GT5 are still there;  
- Not enough singleplayer content; even with the extra events they patched in, its not enough to keep anyone busy unless you finish the same races multiple times. Every time they put up one or two new events, i get a car and finish those events on Gold in an hour?  
- The reward system is broken; GT5 says my game progress is 94% but do you know how many cars are in my virtual garage? Only 187 (out of a thousand)! And with most of the races done, i won't be getting any cars as a reward which bums me out. 
 
The driving in GT5 is awesome; racing online with friends is some of the best; but the singleplayer content and the rewards to show off to your friends just are not there...

#12 Posted by SomeJerk (3130 posts) -

The menu system is like it's stuck in the PS1 era. It's the one thing that hurts the game directly for me. Loved what few multiplayer nights I had with people, getting good earnest racing action going where we drive seriously like it was a real life deal, even when there's three Kubelwagen on the track and three souped up sportscars. I also wonder how I was able to spend so much time in GT1 and GT3 (only really played those of the previous games) when I never got past level 22 in this (sold it in rage before the "Oh, maybe it's not good that people have to grind for hours and hours to get higher" patch).
 
Freaking loved taking laps around the ring, what a sweet experience.. ended up reinstalling Midnight Club 2 to get the racing I wanted :]

#13 Posted by theshape108 (10 posts) -
@Bouke:   Let me tell you what I couldn't agree more about single player content, I get that they want you to online, that's what everyone wants now a days, but would it really have been that hard to throw a few new races in?  Another tier maybe.  The rewards system is really the bust for me, not even that bad about the experience or money but the reward cars are typical worse then the one you need to win the series.  
 
I love the driving in it, its the best I've ever felt, but yeah the single player aspect is lacking in length. 

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