Have we really waited 5 years for this: Gran Turismo 4 HD

#1 Posted by AgentZigzag (82 posts) -

At the risk of angering the fanboys... I am SERIOUSLY disappointed with GT5 (or GT4HD as it could more accurately be called).
 
Like every petrolhead I always enjoyed the driving in GT and loved the fetishistic detail in the cars and the handling and am glad they have gone even further in this regard to create a simulation of driving that almost perfectly balances accuracy and enjoyability.
 
So why does the 'game' part of this game suck so hard? Why is the a.i. still as stale and robotic as ever? Why is the single player game so bland and tedious?  And why oh why is it still possible to win races by driving far too fast into corners and just bouncing off a.i. cars to get round?  Seriously, this shit was noticably weak on the frikkin' PS1.
 
I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses. Its supposed to be a fucking racing game. So why does it only feel like a "real driving simulator" when there are no other cars on the road.
 
God I hope the multiplayer can make up for this, but so far... that ain't so amazing either.

#2 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (999 posts) -
@AgentZigzag:  I hear you. Also graphics are mediocre and sound is just flat.
#3 Edited by BunkerBuster (1042 posts) -

You're not looking at the big picture. The massive amount of DLC to follow will fix the game, I'm sure of it. :)

#4 Posted by xyzygy (9953 posts) -

Ugh, I hate all these negative comments... now I don't know if I should get this or the Forza ultimate collection for christmas.

#5 Posted by PhaggyBigNastyMcKill (564 posts) -
@charlie_victor_bravo said:
" @AgentZigzag:  I hear you. Also graphics are mediocre and sound is just flat. "
i knoe. like only 200 of the cars will be actually good? fuck that this is ff13 all over again
#6 Posted by Berserker976 (343 posts) -

I seriously hope this is a joke thread. 
 
It is... right?

#7 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (999 posts) -
@Berserker976:  Just buy the game and learn the harsh truth.
#8 Posted by Vitor (2815 posts) -
@Berserker976 said:
" I seriously hope this is a joke thread.  It is... right? "
Reviews are mixed - Visuals are occasionally stunning, the attention to detail borderline fetishistic but the actual menus and game are still years behind Forza, as is the multiplayer. It's clearly a game that was in development for 5/6 years - some of the design feels positively archaic while the rest is a love letter to petrol heads. 
#9 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

ahaha...

 

boo...

 

i'm still going to get it,

 

fuck

#10 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -

Unfortunately, I have to agree.
 
I haven't played nearly enough of the game to give my proper impressions yet..  But yes, the graphics are definitely pretty bad in places.  The premium cars look FANTASTIC but most of the rest of the vehicles are pulled straight out of GT4 and you can really tell.  The single player is badly structured and very difficult to follow - people complained that Forza had been dumbed down but it still had plenty of depth but was easy enough to manage and even just navigate the menu's for less experienced gamers.
 
Most importantly, I have to agree with much of what was said after Forza 3 was released.  Calling GT the "real driving simulator" is now borderline false advertising.  The cars simply don't feel as realistic, especially when it comes to breaking.  You cannot modify cars breaking pads because breaking power isn't taking into account in the game..  Real driving simulator indeed.
 
But I certainly don't hate the game, it's still great to play and there's an insane amount of content that will keep any racing fan satisfied for a very long time and there's definitely areas where it does excell over Forza, especially the amount of options and variety.  It's unfortunately just not very easy to access most of these things. 

#11 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -

I pre-ordered this and it arrives tomorrow. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Reminds me of the time I pre-ordered Too Human...

#12 Posted by BunkerBuster (1042 posts) -
@sodiumCyclops said:
" I pre-ordered this and it arrives tomorrow.   
 Reminds me of the time I pre-ordered Too Human... "
So what you're saying is theres a chance that Kazunori Yamauchi is going to get on these forums and yell at people for not playing the game right?
#13 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -
@BunkerBuster: 
 
Yes. You are correct.
#14 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (999 posts) -

:(  those block shadows are everywhere. From photomode - so this is  refined by gt5 photo render engine...
#15 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -
@charlie_victor_bravo: are those cut-out crowd figures animated or static?
#16 Edited by Szlifier (488 posts) -
@AgentZigzag said:

" At the risk of angering the fanboys... I am SERIOUSLY disappointed with GT5 (or GT4HD as it could more accurately be called).  Like every petrolhead I always enjoyed the driving in GT and loved the fetishistic detail in the cars and the handling and am glad they have gone even further in this regard to create a simulation of driving that almost perfectly balances accuracy and enjoyability.  So why does the 'game' part of this game suck so hard? Why is the a.i. still as stale and robotic as ever? Why is the single player game so bland and tedious?  And why oh why is it still possible to win races by driving far too fast into corners and just bouncing off a.i. cars to get round?  Seriously, this shit was noticably weak on the frikkin' PS1.   I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses. Its supposed to be a fucking racing game. So why does it only feel like a "real driving simulator" when there are no other cars on the road.  God I hope the multiplayer can make up for this, but so far... that ain't so amazing either. "

Thank you, sir. I believe in humanity again. 
 
I saw today few screens form final build. REAL SCREENSHOTS not PhotoMode bullshit.  

   http://www.videogameszone.de/Gran-Turismo-5-PS3-133781/News/Gran-Turismo-5-30-exklusive-HD-Screenshots-aus-unseren-Test-Fahrten-801274/galerie/1463897/#tp 
 
Remember to click on  Bild in Originalgr.... 
 
 REAL GRAPHICS OF GRAN TURISMO 5.  
Online
#17 Posted by yakov456 (1905 posts) -

Seeing as how I went in buying the last 4 gt's without seeing a review and loving them, I'm sure this one is no different. It's gt, why do people seem surprised by some of the staples of the series, like boring presentation.

#18 Posted by OmegaPirate (5522 posts) -

people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy. 
 
Mr astronaut - people in our future are retarded

#19 Posted by xyzygy (9953 posts) -
@Szlifier:
Omg those graphics! I thought this was supposed to be the pinnacle of PS3 graphics!! Look at those hideous backgrounds...
#20 Posted by 02sfraser (847 posts) -

As IGN said, the driving simulator part of it is 10/10 and the game part is only 5/10. Haven't played it yet so can't judge

#21 Edited by Szlifier (488 posts) -
@OmegaPirate said:

" people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy.  Mr astronaut - people in our future are retarded "

Of course, graphics are not horrible, but COME ON! This is also to shut those fanboys mouths saying it's best looking game ever. I'm not even mentioning stiff camera, poor sense of speed. I thought games are suppose to be enjoyable, not masochistic driving experience. 
 
Look at Forza 3's environment. Beautiful, rendered in real-time. Not like this pasted photographs of mountains.
Online
#22 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (999 posts) -
@sodiumCyclops said:
" @charlie_victor_bravo: are those cut-out crowd figures animated or static? "
I think they are static. Not that you notice such a things while playing. However jaggies, shadow flicker and those render error blocks are constant eyesore and you do not have spend time cherry picking screen shots to make this game look bad. Lack of polish in graphics is definitely an major issue in this game.   
 
I have started to play with steering wheel and game is starting to feel all right...
#23 Posted by Damodar (1375 posts) -
@AgentZigzag said:
"I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses."  
 
lolwut. It IS about the handling and the physics >.>
#24 Edited by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

They should've just dropped the tracks they couldn't remake in GT5 quality ... stuff like this really impacts the game's overall visual presentation:
 


large version:  
 http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2165/trialmountaincircuite.jpg 
#25 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -
@Damodar said:
" @AgentZigzag said:
"I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses."  
 lolwut. It IS about the handling and the physics >.> "
You're just making excuses. AgentZigzag said so, so your opinion doesn't matter.
#26 Posted by emem (1965 posts) -

Hm does anyone who whined about the game actually own it? It looks a bit like some took the bad reviews and "copy-pasted" the stuff right in here. :) 

#27 Posted by LutonHatter (330 posts) -

Having played it for a day and a bit now, my general impression was slight disappointment at the rough graphical edges  but as soon as your driving those dissapear.


Frustration but acceptance at the menu layout, you tend to have to click one too many times to get any where but not to bothered as afterall I've brought a driving game not a menu game. 


Impressed with the vastness of the game, it has what can be seen as flaws in the pacing of the beginning of the game, it is all to easy to buy a fast car and romp though the first half dozen races but I guess that is play choice, I could of brought a slower car and spent the rest of the money on tuning etc. And the deeper into the game the less that becomes and issue, so a slow burner.


BUT I finished my first race round the Nürburgring Nordschleife  20 minutes ago and, oh my god, I still buzzing. It looks beautiful the sense of speed is monumental. And I find myself in love with the game.


So yes in a way it is GT4 in HD but it a HD version of GT4 oozing with motorsport love, now if only the B-Spec wasn't as dull as it is (But once again once the races become more difficult it will be more balanced and it should become more of challenging game.

#28 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@LutonHatter said:
"now if only the B-Spec wasn't as dull as it is (But once again once the races become more difficult it will be more balanced and it should become more of challenging game."
...so it's confirmed you can't fast-forward during a B-Spec race like in GT4?  The only reason I did B-Spec was because I could get the same money is 1/4 the time.  x.x
#29 Posted by AgentZigzag (82 posts) -
@Damodar: @Binman88 said:
" @Damodar said:
" @AgentZigzag said:
"I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses."  
 lolwut. It IS about the handling and the physics >.> "
You're just making excuses. AgentZigzag said so, so your opinion doesn't matter. "
Since GT1, people have used the "excuses" of it being about physics and handling to argue that this somehow excuses it from being an entertaining racing experience. I was REALLY hoping they would finally make it a real racing game this with the drama and tension that come from facing realistically behaving opponents and the real dangers of hitting other drivers or track-side objects that were achieved (albeit not quite realistically) by 2nd tier racers like GRID.
 
For me the terrible a.i. and collision issues make the excellent handling somewhat irrelevent. People who say "the handling is realistic" never want to admit it but that sentance isn't complete.   The complete sentance is "the handling is realistic... until you hit something".
 
For me it ruins the racing because there is no drama. You don't try and avoid hitting other cars as you should have to in a "real driviing simulator".
#30 Edited by LutonHatter (330 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:

" @LutonHatter said:

"now if only the B-Spec wasn't as dull as it is (But once again once the races become more difficult it will be more balanced and it should become more of challenging game."
...so it's confirmed you can't fast-forward during a B-Spec race like in GT4?  The only reason I did B-Spec was because I could get the same money is 1/4 the time.  x.x "

Well if you can I have found the option too. Which is the story o the menus etc. so far.

Oh and I last night I think I found out how you are supposed to setup the B-Spec from your browser stuff but it wasn't working yet, haven't tried it yet today.


Edit: 

@KaosAngel

I can now share my AI driver online, but having read this: http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5/bspec/ it seems I'll have to wait until next month before I can instruct him from the browser. Oh well.

#31 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@AgentZigzag: All that is in there after level 20, NeoGAF even confirmed it over the weekend.   
 
The problem is that it takes about two weeks to hit that level, and most of the casual racing fans don't have the time to drive economical cars for that long.  The game opens up to Extreme Class at level 20, and after 20...it just gets crazier from there.
#32 Posted by AgentZigzag (82 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
" @AgentZigzag: All that is in there after level 20, NeoGAF even confirmed it over the weekend.    The problem is that it takes about two weeks to hit that level, and most of the casual racing fans don't have the time to drive economical cars for that long.  The game opens up to Extreme Class at level 20, and after 20...it just gets crazier from there. "
Good to know.
#33 Posted by Inkerman (1451 posts) -

This is coming from someone who had never played a Gran Turismo game, but just looking at those screenshots it almost seems like they made it for the 360, and then suddenly realised they were making it for the PS3, and just went with it.

#34 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -
@AgentZigzag said:
" @Damodar: @Binman88 said:
" @Damodar said:
" @AgentZigzag said:
"I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses."  
 lolwut. It IS about the handling and the physics >.> "
You're just making excuses. AgentZigzag said so, so your opinion doesn't matter. "
Since GT1, people have used the "excuses" of it being about physics and handling to argue that this somehow excuses it from being an entertaining racing experience. I was REALLY hoping they would finally make it a real racing game this with the drama and tension that come from facing realistically behaving opponents and the real dangers of hitting other drivers or track-side objects that were achieved (albeit not quite realistically) by 2nd tier racers like GRID. For me the terrible a.i. and collision issues make the excellent handling somewhat irrelevent. People who say "the handling is realistic" never want to admit it but that sentance isn't complete.   The complete sentance is "the handling is realistic... until you hit something". For me it ruins the racing because there is no drama. You don't try and avoid hitting other cars as you should have to in a "real driviing simulator". "
It's true the game isn't very realistic in that sense, but being honest, I've never found it a problem. You're telling people that they're making excuses, but really they're giving you reasons as to why they enjoy the game. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion of the game, but you can't turn around and tell people that they aren't having fun. Tells us about your dismal experience with a game you probably shouldn't have bought, by all means, but you have to accept that other people do like it, and aren't going to like being told what they should and shouldn't like. I'm not here to defend a video game, but I don't like seeing people's valid opinions being rather insultingly dismissed.
 
Also, just out of curiosity, where does your appetite for realism end? If cars crashed realistically, you'd most likely be looking at a DNF result for a lot of races, and spending most, if not all, of your cash getting your car repaired. Even minor damages can be costly to repair. Do you want the game to punish you for reckless and aggressive gear shifting? How about a twisted axle for taking a corner too fast and swinging the rear of your car out too far. If the game took those realisms into account, I'm sure you'd still have people (if not lots more people) complaining about how the GT series isn't "fun". It begs asking why you purchased this game, clearly knowing the series' history, and I have to wonder if you were more intent on moaning about it on day one to cause a stir, rather than actually playing it.
#35 Posted by mnzy (2914 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
" @AgentZigzag: All that is in there after level 20, NeoGAF even confirmed it over the weekend.    The problem is that it takes about two weeks to hit that level, and most of the casual racing fans don't have the time to drive economical cars for that long.  The game opens up to Extreme Class at level 20, and after 20...it just gets crazier from there. "
Isn't that a weird way to put a game together? Unlocking gameplay features THAT late?
#36 Posted by SupberUber (311 posts) -
@Szlifier said:
" @OmegaPirate said:

" people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy.  Mr astronaut - people in our future are retarded "

Of course, graphics are not horrible, but COME ON! This is also to shut those fanboys mouths saying it's best looking game ever. I'm not even mentioning stiff camera, poor sense of speed. I thought games are suppose to be enjoyable, not masochistic driving experience.  Look at Forza 3's environment. Beautiful, rendered in real-time. Not like this pasted photographs of mountains. "
As long as said mountains are out of my reach, I couldn't give a larger fuck 'bout them being "real" or not. 
Having got that out of the way, the posted screens really look terrible:/ 
The asphalt, the big rocks along the road having lo-res textures wrapped on what seems to be even lower quality (count) polygons. In short, reused GT4 assets, if I were a betting man. 
Oh my.
#37 Edited by ProfessorEss (7324 posts) -
@Binman88 said:

You're telling people that they're making excuses, but really they're giving you reasons as to why they enjoy the game.

You know, I'm totally 100% with you on this.
 
Except that at least 50% of the time I'm hearing someone say this it isn't to express their enjoyment, it's to ridicule another developer or fan of a different racing game - perhaps Zig was referring to one of those (numerous) situations.
#38 Posted by heat (190 posts) -

Just wait until you see how fucking awful the standard cars are

#39 Posted by AgentZigzag (82 posts) -
@Binman88:  I take your point. I was just hoping for a little more that's all. Personally I can't see where 5 years work has gone.
 
Don't get me wrong,  I'm going to play this game a lot  before I make any final judgements I'm just frustrated that the 7-8 hours I've played so far feel to me like an up-res GT4.
Apologies if I gave the impression I was deriding anyone for their oppinions.
#40 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -
@emem said:

" Hm does anyone who whined about the game actually own it? It looks a bit like some took the bad reviews and "copy-pasted" the stuff right in here. :)  "

Perhaps because the reviews are obviously going to point out the problems the game has?
Can't say I've read any of them but you're welcome to take a look at my profile, I've been playing the game since Monday.  (though my trophies haven't updated, for whatever reason)
http://eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/WinterSnowblind/ 
 
@Damodar said:
" @AgentZigzag said:
"I know people will whine about it being about the handling and the physics and blah blah blah.  That's just making excuses."  
 lolwut. It IS about the handling and the physics >.> "

Gameplay is arguably the most important part of the game, but like any other game..  If it's structured badly and has a poor interface, that's going to be extremely detrimental to the experience.
They really are a big problem and I'd also argue that the gameplay and physics themselves aren't as good as Forza's.
#41 Posted by Marz (5649 posts) -

i think a reason for alot of the plain textures is that they tailored it around being a true 1080p game and making it run at 60fps, higher resolution made them sacrifice some of the detail in the environments.

#42 Posted by kalmis (1558 posts) -

This is like Chinese Democracy all over again

#43 Posted by Chubbaluphigous (571 posts) -
@OmegaPirate said:
" people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy.  Mr astronaut - people in our future are retarded "
This
 
It has become more important to shit on what others enjoy as quickly and often as they can, than to just play the games they enjoy.  People are broken.
#44 Posted by Damodar (1375 posts) -
@Binman88 said:
" @AgentZigzag said:
Since GT1, people have used the "excuses" of it being about physics and handling to argue that this somehow excuses it from being an entertaining racing experience. I was REALLY hoping they would finally make it a real racing game this with the drama and tension that come from facing realistically behaving opponents and the real dangers of hitting other drivers or track-side objects that were achieved (albeit not quite realistically) by 2nd tier racers like GRID. For me the terrible a.i. and collision issues make the excellent handling somewhat irrelevent. People who say "the handling is realistic" never want to admit it but that sentance isn't complete.   The complete sentance is "the handling is realistic... until you hit something". For me it ruins the racing because there is no drama. You don't try and avoid hitting other cars as you should have to in a "real driviing simulator". "
It's true the game isn't very realistic in that sense, but being honest, I've never found it a problem. You're telling people that they're making excuses, but really they're giving you reasons as to why they enjoy the game. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion of the game, but you can't turn around and tell people that they aren't having fun. Tells us about your dismal experience with a game you probably shouldn't have bought, by all means, but you have to accept that other people do like it, and aren't going to like being told what they should and shouldn't like. I'm not here to defend a video game, but I don't like seeing people's valid opinions being rather insultingly dismissed. Also, just out of curiosity, where does your appetite for realism end? If cars crashed realistically, you'd most likely be looking at a DNF result for a lot of races, and spending most, if not all, of your cash getting your car repaired. Even minor damages can be costly to repair. Do you want the game to punish you for reckless and aggressive gear shifting? How about a twisted axle for taking a corner too fast and swinging the rear of your car out too far. If the game took those realisms into account, I'm sure you'd still have people (if not lots more people) complaining about how the GT series isn't "fun". It begs asking why you purchased this game, clearly knowing the series' history, and I have to wonder if you were more intent on moaning about it on day one to cause a stir, rather than actually playing it. "  
 
<3 
 
as for "The handling is realistic... until you hit something", I don't play the GT games to crash
#45 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -
@AgentZigzag said:
" @Binman88:  I take your point. I was just hoping for a little more that's all. Personally I can't see where 5 years work has gone.  Don't get me wrong,  I'm going to play this game a lot  before I make any final judgements I'm just frustrated that the 7-8 hours I've played so far feel to me like an up-res GT4. Apologies if I gave the impression I was deriding anyone for their oppinions. "
That's the only issue I had with your thread, it's cool. I have no problem hearing people point out a game's flaws. Unlike a lot of people in the build up to this release, I don't feel compelled to irrationally disagree with any negative remarks made about the game, nor do I think it's right to start comparing it to another similar game to try and score points in petty arguments (as has been the case with the whole F3 vs GT5 debacle so far). I'm not a PD employee, so unless they start paying me, I feel no compulsion to start flying their flag in every forum thread I find! 
 
I should probably add my opinion on the game. I've only had it since this morning, and so far I can point out and agree with plenty of problems - some of the standard models look less than average, the interior shadows in the cars are blocky as fuck, and the load times that tend to be just a couple of seconds too long are already starting to annoy me (wouldn't be half as bad if I had a separate laptop or monitor beside me to keep me busy for the loads, but I use one monitor to share between my PC and PS3, so it's a hassle to keep switching back and forth).  Apart from the load times in the menus, I quite like the actual layout. I find it preferable to the 3D environment menus like with the recent Codemasters games, but that's just me. The cars I've tried so far in the Licence tests feel great - definitely a difference even compared with GT5P, and the Photomode is quite fun - although I can't seem to find rewind/fast forward controls for replays? 
#46 Posted by Wink (3 posts) -

I can't believe people can play 2-3 hours of the game and somehow write it off.
 
With the amount of depth in GT5 (e.g. unlocking damage) how can you do this?!
Actually I know how - you are not a racing simulation fan.  
You are a casual racing game fan. 
You prefer the GRIDs, DIRTS and NFSs of this world
You play Forza 3 with the 360 controller and not a Fanatec wheel and think Forza's rewind function is a godsend
iRacing scares you, rather than impresses you.  
 
So be it
Play your 2-3 hours and return it, sell it, give it to your cousin. 
Just know this - years from now, GT5 will remain, solid as a rock.

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