@jerseyscum said:

@Yummylee said:

@jerseyscum said:

Two of the protagonists are both middle-aged criminals. One is a drug-addled psychotic loose-cannon who relishes in violence and the other is a "retired" heist-man with problems relating to his teenage daughter and an estranged wife. Where have I seen this before......?

Yes, this comparison is totally unfair. I'm just saying......Rockstar might actually do these kind of characters right.

Come on now. The actual characters of Kane and Lynch were fine (great voice performances from both at the very least), it's the gameplay surrounding them that was lackluster.

Hey Kane, I'm sorry I totally killed all those hostages duder. I forgot to get a refill on my prescription that if just happen to stop taking I get all gun happy and start murdering people when it's convenient for the plot.

Hey Kane. I'm sorry I totally murdered that woman we were supposed to ransom off in a totally not-creepy or rapey way. It's just that the writers needed to justify this fucked exercise of a game and justify the rest of the plot.

And Kane still works with this guy on a second game! A walking fuck-up that brings nothing but pain and misery in his life and he just signs right back up for another mediocre romp.

Do not get me started on the airport level in Kane and Lynch 2.

Yes, Lynch turning out to be a medicated psycho is convenient for the plot... but you can that about literally any plot device ever. In fact that's the whole point, that's how you usually move a crime story forward, you introduce new obstacles and complications to make things turn messy in a hurry. K&L was like a buddy cop movie, only you've got bad cop and really bad cop.

And the reason why Kane works with him in the second game is because he's clearly that desperate; he gets an offer for a score that could finally settle him and his daughter for good, so he took it. It obviously wasn't a smart decision, but Kane's evidently in a pretty fucked up state so he figured this could be his one final chance before who knows what. He's essentially what Max Payne would have devolved into if Max didn't decide to improve his life and try and do something productive with his life. And don't forget Kane and Lynch barely kept in touch after the first one after all, so it's not like Kane was best buds with the guy despite being well aware of how fucked up he is.

Now I'm going to justify the story of K&L2, because there barely is one of course, but again I think the characters of Kane and Lynch themselves are a little under-appreciated, or rather I find it unfair that they're automatically lumped alongside most of the mediocrity that practically defines the K&L game.

@Yummylee said:

@jerseyscum said:

@Yummylee said:

@jerseyscum said:

Two of the protagonists are both middle-aged criminals. One is a drug-addled psychotic loose-cannon who relishes in violence and the other is a "retired" heist-man with problems relating to his teenage daughter and an estranged wife. Where have I seen this before......?

Yes, this comparison is totally unfair. I'm just saying......Rockstar might actually do these kind of characters right.

Come on now. The actual characters of Kane and Lynch were fine (great voice performances from both at the very least), it's the gameplay surrounding them that was lackluster.

Hey Kane, I'm sorry I totally killed all those hostages duder. I forgot to get a refill on my prescription that if just happen to stop taking I get all gun happy and start murdering people when it's convenient for the plot.

Hey Kane. I'm sorry I totally murdered that woman we were supposed to ransom off in a totally not-creepy or rapey way. It's just that the writers needed to justify this fucked exercise of a game and justify the rest of the plot.

And Kane still works with this guy on a second game! A walking fuck-up that brings nothing but pain and misery in his life and he just signs right back up for another mediocre romp.

Do not get me started on the airport level in Kane and Lynch 2.

Yes, Lynch turning out to be a medicated psycho is convenient for the plot... but you can that about literally any plot device ever. In fact that's the whole point, that's how you usually move a crime story forward, you introduce new obstacles and complications to make things turn messy in a hurry. K&L was like a buddy cop movie, only you've got bad cop and really bad cop.

And the reason why Kane works with him in the second game is because he's clearly that desperate; he gets an offer for a score that could finally settle him and his daughter for good, so he took it. It obviously wasn't a smart decision, but Kane's evidently in a pretty fucked up state so he figured this could be his one final chance before who knows what. He's essentially what Max Payne would have devolved into if Max didn't decide to improve his life and try and do something productive with his life. And don't forget Kane and Lynch barely kept in touch after the first one after all, so it's not like Kane was best buds with the guy despite being well aware of how fucked up he is.

Now I'm going to justify the story of K&L2, because there barely is one of course, but again I think the characters of Kane and Lynch themselves are a little under-appreciated, or rather I find it unfair that they're automatically lumped alongside most of the mediocrity that practically defines the K&L game.

The voice acting was good and we're both unfortunately getting off topic (myself more). So what are your thoughts duder that we're getting three main characters in a GTA game that can be switched out on the fly? Does that define what particular activities or side missions each character can engage in? Does one character have specific attributes in-game (better car-handling, better abilities with a gun) than another one doesn't have? I'm very, very curious on how this turns out.

@jerseyscum: You're right, and it's been a while since I've played both soo... I'm not exactly equipped to dig deep and conjure up like specific snippets of dialogue here and there to further strengthen my argument, either. Anywhoo I've already been posting my thoughts about GTAV in this thread here! To put it short, I fucking love the idea of this multi-protagonist character-switching mumbo jumbo.

Really hope Rockstar can perhaps implement coop into there somewhere. Although I'm fairly sure there'll be some sort of cooperative component elsewhere anyway if not during the main story.

A lot of you should stop thinking this.

@biospank said:

not to be a sexist but how would a gta game work with a female? After all they are nothing more then a old to new crime flicks. And for you ladies and gentlemen the female would not be portrayed well. I have learned this much from video games.

It would definetly be interesting to have a female character but the game would probably have to be structured differently. However unrealistic the games may be they are still centered around entering into extreamly violent criminal organisations and rising to the top and the plain fact of the matter is that these kinds of criminal organisations, anywhere are dominated by men, there aren't many women in positions of power so Rockstar would be bending over backwards to make a female character work when it doesn't really make sense in the first place. I doubt there would be many people crying foul that there aren't many female criminal kingpins in The Sopranos or The Wire because thats just the way it is.

@ChillyUK7: I'm not sure Rockstar would have to "bend over backwards" to make a female character work in this situation. And @biospank, "she would need to be attractive and sexually appealing". Really?

"Broken Nose" Jiang was a great, triad boss, figure in Sleeping Dogs as was Marlowe in Uncharted 3 (albeit more of a detached, institutionalized boss situation).

While they're "male dominated" worlds there are plenty of female figures that can do plenty of things. Winston's grandmother in Sleeping Dogs was one of my favourite characters, she kinda ran the whole show.

Also, there have been female characters in GTA who have been active, well rounded and fit perfectly into the violent world, like Elizabeta in GTA 4, or Catalina in GTA 3. Or Bonnie and Abigail in Red Dead Redemption, for that matter, the latter of whom was part of John's old gang before it dissolved.

I really don't think they would have to restructure the game dramatically. I don't really understand the idea that a female character would necessarily not want to be in a violent situation, and to be honest, I can't think of a GTA protagonist who did want to. That's the whole trajectory of GTA protagonists isn't it?

I honestly think out of most Triple AAA devs today, Rockstar could make a great game centred around a great female protagonist(s).

@msavo said:

@Fjordson said:

@BestUsernameEver said:

Not to mention your average GTA protagonist has a million times more depth to him than "The Boss" in Saints Row.

A created character in something like Saints Row is nothing more than a cipher with some voice acting. Sure, it can have boobs, or a British accent and an afro, but it doesn't add anything to the game once the "look how ridiculous this is!" feeling wears off.

When I first read that I thought you were going to say The Boss from MGS3 and I was going to flip a table over.

This made me laugh! Good work, Sir.

@fraser:I'm not saying it couldn't be done but I doubt it would come naturally to the Rockstar devs, to them having characters with backstories linking them to the known criminal organisations like the Mafia or LA gangs and rifing off films with similar themes of rising up the ranks just leads them to male characters anyway (look at any film/tv show depicting criminality and the characters are overwhelmingly male, these aren't called out as being sexist because the worlds they are depicting are sexist in the first place, look at how women are treated in The Sopranos for instance). They could have gone a different route with at least one character being female as they have three to choose from, this isn't Saints Row where the character is more or less a skin swap so the story would have to be tailored to her, she couldn't be interchanged with the ex east coast mobster for example. Could Rockstar make a GTA with a female protagonist, sure (they made the best female character imo Bonnie MacFarlane) but I don't think they aren't doing it out being narrow minded it just doesnt fit with the type of game they enjoy making.

I like video games.

Why should a female character be any more attractive than the male equivalent in gta? Surely we have evolved beyond 'tomb raider is the perfect female role model' mentality. Give her some acne scarring on one cheek, make her slightly overweight. Make her pretty to 'some people' and ugly to the others who are conditioned into demanding barbie - and nothing less.

By introducing -normal people- into media, you make the shallow and easily led people think twice about their preconceptions. That's art. Not some frilly painting on a wall.

Mirror people back at themselves and force them to either reject the reflection, or perhaps take a second to think about their standpoint on sexism and looks. That as a statement is more beautiful than any "barbie" figure. Because it's no longer 'surface layer'. It's the air we breath.

Frankly, I just want gameplay improvements. If shooting and driving isn't frustrating this time around, I'll be completely sold on GTAV. IV is just a really frustrating game for me to go back to now a days.

@ChillyUK7 said:

@biospank said:

not to be a sexist but how would a gta game work with a female? After all they are nothing more then a old to new crime flicks. And for you ladies and gentlemen the female would not be portrayed well. I have learned this much from video games.

It would definetly be interesting to have a female character but the game would probably have to be structured differently. However unrealistic the games may be they are still centered around entering into extreamly violent criminal organisations and rising to the top and the plain fact of the matter is that these kinds of criminal organisations, anywhere are dominated by men, there aren't many women in positions of power so Rockstar would be bending over backwards to make a female character work when it doesn't really make sense in the first place. I doubt there would be many people crying foul that there aren't many female criminal kingpins in The Sopranos or The Wire because thats just the way it is.

http://www.thesmokingjacket.com/entertainment/female-mob-bosses

For all you guys longing for a female protagonist, and not the game, pray that you can cross-dress. Me? I'm looking forward to the game, don't have the energy, nor will, to nag it into the gutter before release.

@Srah:Ugh I never said women don't exist in criminal organisations just that they are so few in number (and how they got their may differ from the rags to riches story Rockstar like to tell, e.g. being related to men in the organisation who then get killed/arrested) that not having a female protagonist isn't a matter of Rockstar being sexist, it's just a reflection of the subject matter they draw on to make their games.

OMG WHERE'S GIRLZ GAIZ?

Wow, the comment section has hit an all time low!

Women can't be violent criminals, that's too unbelievable!

*kills hundreds of people in spectacular fashion, gallivants away without a consequence*

(y'all dumb)

I can't wait for this game.

@Khaaaaaan said:

I can't wait for this game.

This is the appropriate reaction to this news story.

yeah, I'm also disappointied about a lack of a female lead, they really had some good female characters in the last GTA games.

WHO FUCKING CARES. OH MY GOD THERE ISN'T A LADY, THAT IS SO AWFUL.

No, it isn't. Would it be cool to see a female protag? Sure! If she was done right, and not just a big breasted latina with a lolipop fetish. But the lack of a fucking female protag does not make the game sexist, or shitty. It means they just didn't choose to go that way. Stop your bitching and your instigating and just enjoy the game. Or don't. It doesn't matter what effing gender the protag is until someone says "We didn't want to make a female protag because fuck those second class citizens."

@MordeaniisChaos: I'm sure your calm and measured response is really going to help get this thread back on track.

Sorry for the sarcasm...I agree with you, but that sort of tone is just going to add fuel to the fire.

I really wish Patrick hadn't put that comment in the article because it has distracted everyone from the real news here: GTA V is attempting to do some new stuff, and it sounds like it could be awesome.

@Chaser324: I don't really give a fuck, those people are going to argue regardless. I mind as well enjoy myself while I roll my eyes at their stupidity.

Having Tommy, CJ and Claude back for GTA V would be quite nice but I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed about not having a 'young' character to play after Nico Belic..

@xSuperGirl: One of the characters is in his 20's...that's about as young as you can reasonably go.

@whitespider said:

Why should a female character be any more attractive than the male equivalent in gta? Surely we have evolved beyond 'tomb raider is the perfect female role model' mentality. Give her some acne scarring on one cheek, make her slightly overweight. Make her pretty to 'some people' and ugly to the others who are conditioned into demanding barbie - and nothing less.

By introducing -normal people- into media, you make the shallow and easily led people think twice about their preconceptions. That's art. Not some frilly painting on a wall.

Mirror people back at themselves and force them to either reject the reflection, or perhaps take a second to think about their standpoint on sexism and looks. That as a statement is more beautiful than any "barbie" figure. Because it's no longer 'surface layer'. It's the air we breath.

That's the most amazing post I've ever seen (in this thread). Too bad they'd never admit (to themselves) to getting hit with a dose of reality.

Also,

I wish people who enjoy stories so much would go back to reading books instead of becoming armchair story editors for video games. They think they know what to add in game stories to make them magically better, but it always ends up being a Jar Jar Binks. Games can have good stories sure, but their main point will always be about "GAME" part first everything else later.

Sounds like a good idea to me