Codemaster remove 'incar' view from GRiD 2 as only 5% use it.

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#1 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-08-grid-2-preview-no-assists-please-were-british

Codemaster are to remove the Incar view from GRiD 2 as they say that a survey showed that only 5% of gamers actually use it.

myself i don't use them, im a bumper cam guy. i like the sense of speed. i find that the incar view blocks off to much of the screen. but im sure others do and i can see this being one of those thing the %5 will shout very loudly about.

But i do see Codemasters point of view. why spend all that time and money modeling and rendering interiors if hardly anyone see's or uses them.

do you use in car views?

#2 Posted by Demoskinos (15086 posts) -

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

#3 Posted by FritzDude (2279 posts) -

I'm in that 5% and I'm sad.

#4 Posted by SharkEthic (1062 posts) -
#5 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

I am the 95% 
 
@Demoskinos said:

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

I thought those guys would use the bumper view because it's kind of silly to have two wheels in front of you.
#6 Posted by GentlemanlyGentleman (320 posts) -

@Bell_End said:

i can see this being one of those thing the %5 will shout very loudly about.

DAMN RIGHT WE WILL!

This has actually made me a little down on Grid 2. I only ever drive with the cockpit view, I just feel like I have a greater sense of control over the car. Now that it's gone, I'm feeling a little disappointed.

#7 Posted by face15 (1305 posts) -

That's fucked.

#8 Posted by Humanity (9824 posts) -

I can't remember how I played Grid, but I did remember it being a freaking fun game.

Does this remove the cockpit view without the actual cockpit? Like the first person open screen variant? As long as you can drive from that position I think it should be ok and the rest of us casual doods can play from the bumper cam.

#9 Posted by TopSteer (675 posts) -

Then I'm no longer excited for Grid 2.

#10 Posted by Fearbeard (834 posts) -

Sounds like a bad idea.

Personally I don't care, but I'm pretty sure those 5% are hardcore racing fans who would keep buying your games and sound like an audience you would want to keep.

#11 Posted by Demmetje (203 posts) -

Darn.. The way they handled the cockpit view was one of the main draws of the first GRID.

#12 Posted by MB (12911 posts) -

@Fearbeard said:

Sounds like a bad idea.

Personally I don't care, but I'm pretty sure those 5% are hardcore racing fans who would keep buying your games and sound like an audience you would want to keep.

Unless the in-car view has an extraordinarily high cost to develop, then it makes sense to cut the feature if such a small percentage of people would even be using it. It sounds like Codemasters is trying to remain profitable, and in this case it may be the difference between Grid 2 being made or not being made at all.

Moderator
#13 Posted by ma_rc_01 (364 posts) -

Well, I just did a survey and 100% of me won't be buying this game. It's one of my favorite parts of racing games, even if it makes it way harder to drive.

#14 Posted by face15 (1305 posts) -

@MB said:

@Fearbeard said:

Sounds like a bad idea.

Personally I don't care, but I'm pretty sure those 5% are hardcore racing fans who would keep buying your games and sound like an audience you would want to keep.

Unless the in-car view has an extraordinarily high cost to develop, then it makes sense to cut the feature if such a small percentage of people would even be using it. It sounds like Codemasters is trying to remain profitable, and in this case it may be the difference between Grid 2 being made or not being made at all.

Even so they shouldn't be removing features from a game and releasing it as a sequel.

Don't call it Grid 2 if it doesn't at least have everything the previous game had.

#15 Posted by Bollard (5743 posts) -

That's like, the best part of a racing game.

#16 Edited by MachoFantastico (4855 posts) -

Couldn't believe that when I read it, absolute rubbish. I used in-car view for pretty much all racing games, as do almost everyone else I play with. The in-car view was great in the original GRID, baffling why it's been taken out.

Boo! Codemasters.

#17 Posted by Shivoa (642 posts) -

I am the 5%.

I also enjoyed Race Driver: GRID. It's no Forza 3/4 but when you're playing on PC (and using 1080p to actually get a good impression of that distant corner at 60fps so you don't have to end up taking a lot of turns rather blind) then a bit of variety isn't a bad thing. As it was Forza 3 that taught me to love in-car (to use the surround sound to hear the tyres giving up in each direction individually and feel any slide rather than watching it from a camera behind the car, giving up some sense of the rear end for much better ability to push the nose through the apex of the curve) and GRID came out the year before that I was probably part of the 95% they tracked. I'm not interested in buying a sim(ish) racer which doesn't have cockpit view, this goes from a 'curious and will keep an eye on' to 'off the radar' with this one removal.

#18 Posted by Village_Guy (2656 posts) -

Well this makes me sad, I guess I'll pass on this now, driving in first-person with a full in-car / cockpit view is one of the best things ever in games :(

#19 Posted by Mackinder (74 posts) -

I'm amazed that removing a camera view would make some people not buy a game. Sure, a little bummed that you have one less camera view. But not buying a whole game. Wow.

#20 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

@Mackinder said:

I'm amazed that removing a camera view would make some people not buy a game. Sure, a little bummed that you have one less camera view. But not buying a whole game. Wow.

think its just the default emotion for people on the net OVERREACT !!!!!!

#21 Posted by Shivoa (642 posts) -

@Mackinder said:

I'm amazed that removing a camera view would make some people not buy a game. Sure, a little bummed that you have one less camera view. But not buying a whole game. Wow.

I'm amazed that you don't realise people who use it generally drive in cockpit view 100% of the time. It isn't just one of the views, it's how they view the game world. This is removing THE camera view from the game. That's why this removes any interest for buying the product, because there are plenty of driving games on the market so there are other offerings that provide the camera view these people demand. Cutting it makes it impossible to play from that perspective.

#22 Posted by Cretaceous_Bob (527 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Depending on 5% of racing game sales is practically putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger as a company.

If anyone's a fan of racing games, it's the people who make racing games. I'm sure they'd like to cater to hardcore racing fans, but they're given a choice between catering to the less hardcore racing audience or going out of business. I think they'd like to make a racing game, rather than none at all and no paycheck too.

#23 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

@Shivoa said:

@Mackinder said:

I'm amazed that removing a camera view would make some people not buy a game. Sure, a little bummed that you have one less camera view. But not buying a whole game. Wow.

I'm amazed that you don't realise people who use it generally drive in cockpit view 100% of the time. It isn't just one of the views, it's how they view the game world. This is removing THE camera view from the game. That's why this removes any interest for buying the product, because there are plenty of driving games on the market so there are other offerings that provide the camera view these people demand. Cutting it makes it impossible to play from that perspective.

problem is the vast majority don't use that view. and the cost to model and render 75+ cars is just not worth it to please the few that do.

#24 Edited by mikey87144 (1810 posts) -

Fuck this game then. I know that some people are like, "what's the big deal", but for those of us who do use that view, for games of this ilk, it's a big deal. That view gives me such a great point of reference when playing games like this that I can't imagine playing it any other way. I was really looking forward to Grid 2 but I guess I no longer need to worry about it.

#25 Edited by Shivoa (642 posts) -

@Bell_End: Unless they're going to have opaque windows then they'll be modelling the insides to some extent. No one is demanding Forza quality modelling here, it's the view that's important.

Edit: 5% of the 2 million estimated sales for Grid means Codies are saying it isn't worth it for the 100,000 people who do use cockpit view. $6,000,000 if they buy on day 1 (without factoring in potential DLC sales) or about 600 man months of development time (for average cost of staff in the industry).

#26 Posted by two_socks (235 posts) -

That's a real bummer man. The cockpit-cam was one of my favorite things about GRID.

#27 Posted by doobie (605 posts) -

grid is one of the few racing game i actually liked the in-car view, so i will miss it. but i do understand the reasons they would remove it for cost reasons and such.

won't stop me buying Grid 2 though

#28 Posted by Jace (1093 posts) -

Codemasters:

"We don't want to compete with Forza, please take our sales."

How the fuck do these people run businesses.

#29 Posted by Hunkulese (2832 posts) -
@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.
#30 Edited by Jace (1093 posts) -

@Shivoa said:

@Mackinder said:

I'm amazed that removing a camera view would make some people not buy a game. Sure, a little bummed that you have one less camera view. But not buying a whole game. Wow.

I'm amazed that you don't realise people who use it generally drive in cockpit view 100% of the time. It isn't just one of the views, it's how they view the game world. This is removing THE camera view from the game. That's why this removes any interest for buying the product, because there are plenty of driving games on the market so there are other offerings that provide the camera view these people demand. Cutting it makes it impossible to play from that perspective.

It would be the equivalent of removing the gun from view in a FPS. There's a reason Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, and every other no-gun-in-fov game changed.

#31 Posted by mikey87144 (1810 posts) -

@Hunkulese said:

@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.

You're wrong about that. Randomly you see polls on forums for Gran Turismo and Forza talking about preferred camera set up and usually it's bumper and cock-pit view with roughly the same vote. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't.

#32 Posted by Mijati (948 posts) -

This is the only way to play the majority (not all though) racing games so it's pretty stupid how they've taken it out. It's how I play the games as can't stand any of the other views for this type of racing game.

#33 Posted by AlexW00d (6382 posts) -

The cockpit mode was like 75% of the draw to Codemasters games, so that sucks.

#34 Edited by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

@mikey87144 said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.

You're wrong about that. Randomly you see polls on forums for Gran Turismo and Forza talking about preferred camera set up and usually it's bumper and cock-pit view with roughly the same vote. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't.

i always found the frame rate in GT5 took a slight hit in the in-car view and it always felt smoother from the bumper cam. plus i never like having large parts of my view missing. it just seems like a self imposed handicap

#35 Posted by Mijati (948 posts) -
@Bell_End said:

@mikey87144 said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.

You're wrong about that. Randomly you see polls on forums for Gran Turismo and Forza talking about preferred camera set up and usually it's bumper and cock-pit view with roughly the same vote. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't.

i always found the framte rate in GT5 took a slight hit in the in-car view and it always felt smoother from the bumper cam. plus i never like having large parts of my view missing. it just seems like a self imposed handicap

I like to actually be able to see where my car is. With the bumper cam you have absolutely no reference. Makes overtaking and even cornering more difficult. You can't see at all to your side and just a horrific view and a handicap within itself.
#36 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

@Mijati said:

@Bell_End said:

@mikey87144 said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.

You're wrong about that. Randomly you see polls on forums for Gran Turismo and Forza talking about preferred camera set up and usually it's bumper and cock-pit view with roughly the same vote. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't.

i always found the framte rate in GT5 took a slight hit in the in-car view and it always felt smoother from the bumper cam. plus i never like having large parts of my view missing. it just seems like a self imposed handicap

I like to actually be able to see where my car is. With the bumper cam you have absolutely no reference. Makes overtaking and even cornering more difficult. You can't see at all to your side and just a horrific view and a handicap within itself.

hmmm... i would call either horrific. at a push i could manage with both.

#37 Posted by mikey87144 (1810 posts) -

@Bell_End said:

@mikey87144 said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.

You're wrong about that. Randomly you see polls on forums for Gran Turismo and Forza talking about preferred camera set up and usually it's bumper and cock-pit view with roughly the same vote. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't.

i always found the framte rate in GT5 took a slight hit in the in-car view and it always felt smoother from the bumper cam. plus i never like having large parts of my view missing. it just seems like a self imposed handicap

To me the bumper view is too disorienting. I feel like a disembodied head floating down the track. Also, if I'm about to lose control of the car I have no visual cue other than the camera spinning. Yea Gran Turismo did a fantastic job of relaying that information through the controller but I like seeing the nose turn sharply as the back steps out or the nose not turning as your car under steers through a corner. I just can't imagine playing (sim)ish racing games any other way.

#38 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

@AlexW00d said: a 75% draw for 5% of the people it would seem

The cockpit mode was like 75% of the draw to Codemasters games, so that sucks.

#39 Posted by Demoskinos (15086 posts) -
@Hunkulese
@Demoskinos

This is stupid... because that 5% that DO use the feature are you hardcore race audience. They are the guys with the crazy steering wheel setups and the whole deal. THEY are the guys who will most likely buy the damn thing either way.

Chances are most of the hardcore players don't use the in car cam because it's a shitty way to drive. It's fun to try it for a race or two and see what's in the car but that's about it.
Can't agree. Im not a huge race guy but when I do play one like Foza it is Cockpit view or nothing. Everyone I know plays exclusively in cockpit as well.
#40 Posted by ShiftyMagician (2132 posts) -

This news won't stop me from getting GRID 2, but man I am definitely going to miss the driver view. I am of the 5% that used it almost all of the time and loved it. If the rest of the game gets expanded and it results in an even better game even with this change, then it will be a wise compromise on their part. Thank god Project CARS exists and has the cockpit view I want.

#41 Posted by buft (3321 posts) -

@FritzDude said:

I'm in that 5% and I'm sad.

me too, i enjoy the limited view that it gives you, For me its about the immersion that it adds.

#42 Posted by newt (92 posts) -

Only 10% of players finish games. Maybe games shouldn't have endings because most of the people that play wont see them anyway.

#43 Posted by AlexW00d (6382 posts) -

@Bell_End said:

@AlexW00d said: a 75% draw for 5% of the people it would seem

The cockpit mode was like 75% of the draw to Codemasters games, so that sucks.

5% of people they asked.

#44 Posted by TopSteer (675 posts) -

@Shivoa said:

I am the 5%.

I also enjoyed Race Driver: GRID. It's no Forza 3/4 but when you're playing on PC (and using 1080p to actually get a good impression of that distant corner at 60fps so you don't have to end up taking a lot of turns rather blind) then a bit of variety isn't a bad thing. As it was Forza 3 that taught me to love in-car (to use the surround sound to hear the tyres giving up in each direction individually and feel any slide rather than watching it from a camera behind the car, giving up some sense of the rear end for much better ability to push the nose through the apex of the curve) and GRID came out the year before that I was probably part of the 95% they tracked. I'm not interested in buying a sim(ish) racer which doesn't have cockpit view, this goes from a 'curious and will keep an eye on' to 'off the radar' with this one removal.

Well said. I don't usually take it this seriously,(sometimes I do but usually I play racing games while listening to podcasts and such) I pretty much always play from the cockpit.

#45 Posted by AngelN7 (2972 posts) -

I know getting the model for the cockpits must be a lot of work but if you're going for the perfect racing experience you got to have a cockpit view... that's kinda of bummer damnit! that's RaceDriver GRID 2 and you do that why? that was one of the standout features of the first game.

#46 Posted by Pazy (2601 posts) -

I drive from the in-car view, it makes me honestly drive worse but I really enjoy the sensation.

Online
#47 Posted by CaLe (4039 posts) -

I like seeing the car but I do occasionally switch to in-car view just for fun.. Anyway I don't care, I'm just happy GRID 2 is coming. Loved the first one.

#48 Posted by laugurinn (64 posts) -

It's not one less view when you only use that view. S

Won't buy. Not that they've made it easy for me to buy anything for that matter. Fin windows live intergration has blocked me from buying their last three games.

#49 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1094 posts) -

@newt said:

Only 10% of players finish games. Maybe games shouldn't have endings because most of the people that play wont see them anyway.

This.

#50 Posted by Khann (2904 posts) -

I literally don't play racing games that don't have a cockpit view, so I'll be giving this one a miss. Which is a shame, because I really enjoyed the original GRID, wonky physics and all.

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