Arena net may or may not be ripping Europeans off...Hint they are

#1 Edited by ZoomyRamen (237 posts) -

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/wp1oo/do_you_think_gems_are_too_expensive_for_eu_zone/

Yaaaaaaay.... @Rhombus_Of_Terror: Yeah I apologise. I was just in a rush really. I'll add the content of the post from the original poster.

posted by AMDR.

800 for €10.00

1600 for €20.00

2800 for €35.00

4000 for €50.00

Something else from a user: Conversion of euro to dollar.

Posted by Teppec

800 for $12.28

1600 for $24.57

2800 for $42.99

4000 for $61.40

Posted by Chikkensoop

Converting the GBP prices to USD using current oanda.com exchange rate:

800 for $13.24

1600 for $26.49

2800 for $46.35

4000 for $66.22

Mike o'Brien posted this response:

This reflects tax-exclusive v. tax-inclusive pricing.

In America, you pay the price you see plus sales tax.

In Europe, you pay the price you see. The vendor pays VAT out of that price.

VAT rates in EU range from roughly 15%-25%. We pay based on the location of our EU office, in UK, so we pay a flat 20% for all of EU.

€1 = €0.833 base + €0.167 VAT

€0.83 base = $1.02 (at today's exchange rate)

~ MO

My bad for not understanding tax system in america. My mistake. I'm an assshole and apologise.

#2 Posted by Rhombus_Of_Terror (2111 posts) -

I'd put some context into your post, or your own thoughts, simply linking a page will get this topic closed. Just a heads up :)

#3 Posted by Imsorrymsjackson (855 posts) -

@Rhombus_Of_Terror said:

I'd put some context into your post, or your own thoughts, simply linking a page will get this topic closed. Just a heads up :)

This.

#4 Posted by Kidavenger (3570 posts) -
#5 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4540 posts) -

sucks for you...

#6 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -

This is not new, it sucks to be in the EU at times...

#7 Posted by Benny (1953 posts) -

Just copy and paste what that dude said on reddit with a link to where he found it and then a little paragraph cause this is important information for everyone to see and is worth discussing.

Firstly, £8.50 for 800 gems seems a little steep to most but I guess a premium item should be. I'll probably trade as much cash for gems as possible early on and invest in bank tabs and bag slots then do my best to gauge whether or not it's worth trading cash for gems and back again to make a profit a few weeks after launch.

Secondly, I've only just realised that glory boosters are going to be extremely useful for people spending a lot of time in sPVP, if it's +50% glory that's a hell of a lot of time saved to help gain Glory ranks for the awesome looking PvP gear.

Thirdly, what's a cow finisher?!

Just be glad you can still get this stuff for ingame gold, and if the gem store isn't working quite the way they wanted you can trust that they'll make some changes. This is after all ArenaNet and not Microsoft or EA for example.

#8 Posted by Shirogane (3578 posts) -

It's not exactly new though, Steam does this all the time. Still sucks, but oh well.

Online
#9 Edited by UssjTrunks (534 posts) -

At least (most of you) get free education. Try paying $10,000-20,000 (some graduate programs go as high as $70K) a year for school. I'd rather get ripped off on a few games/game items. ;)

#10 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3340 posts) -

I mean it sucks, sure. But isn't it also pretty much standard operation for international pricing at this point? Someone will always get fucked in these situations.

#11 Posted by Jaytow (695 posts) -

ahh, the old sony trick eh? Treat your european fans like a pile of shit.

#12 Posted by Hailinel (24977 posts) -
#13 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

eu always get ripped off. steam anyone?

#14 Posted by SomeJerk (3263 posts) -

Meh, we have next-to-free healthcare and good internet over here, it's fine.

#15 Posted by Village_Guy (2598 posts) -

It happens all the time, but I wasn't planning on buying anything for Guild Wars 2 anyway...

#16 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@SomeJerk said:
Meh, we have next-to-free healthcare and good internet over here, it's fine.
And really cool TV shows. 
#17 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

American prices are before tax, so by the time they've made a purchase, they're paying more. Mind you, I'm still not sure if it works out. You'd have to know the tax rates for each country and each state and compare them then.

Thank god I've a tax free Alaskan credit card though.

#18 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

That's nothing new games cost at least 80$-100$ over here games like FFXIII still cost 70$ and official retailers and rental services are available to you... you complain too much #firstworldproblems.

#19 Edited by UssjTrunks (534 posts) -

@mandude said:

American prices are before tax, so by the time they've made a purchase, they're paying more. Mind you, I'm still not sure if it works out. You'd have to know the tax rates for each country and each state and compare them then.

Thank god I've a tax free Alaskan credit card though.

Taxes are very low in most states, so it still ends up being cheaper.

The trade-off is that they pay inordinate amounts of money for basic things like healthcare and education.

So...

USA: Get ripped of on big things that actually affect your quality of life

Europe: Get ripped off on trivial consumer goods

I don't know about you guys, but I'd take the latter in a hearbeat. ;)

#20 Posted by RobbieMac (535 posts) -

Everyone gets 'ripped' off in comparison to the states in regards to games. That is just the way it is.

#21 Posted by Maystack (906 posts) -

Wasn't planning on buying any gems anyway, but it's still a bit of a bummer.

#22 Posted by Rhaknar (5939 posts) -

we are still having "X company is ripping me off because of currency coversion bullshit" topics? really?

are we also still having "X game is banned in Germany outrage!" topics?

#23 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@UssjTrunks: Keep in mind though, that they're not the one's charging tax. They're coming up with a base price and adding the tax afterwards. Sure, it's kind of unfair to throw a blanket over all of Europe, since the rates are different, but it's really only fair to compare the before tax prices.

$10 works out at €8.10. If you take away the average European VAT from the €10 they're charging, you're left with €8.30, which means they're only ripping us off by 20c.

Still, you're right. I'm in America now, and my "health insurance" is having enough money set aside for a ticket back to Ireland.

#24 Posted by Animasta (14698 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

the british prices for games is usually always better compared to mainland europe/north america

#25 Edited by AlexW00d (6283 posts) -

@UssjTrunks said:

At least (most of you) get free education. Try paying $10,000-20,000 (some graduate programs go as high as $70K) a year for school. I'd rather get ripped off on a few games/game items. ;)

Apart from, that 'table' shows it's more expensive in England, where we have to pay about $15000 a year for undergrad courses plus much higher living costs. My point being, those are bad things to compare.

@Animasta said:

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

the british prices for games is usually always better compared to mainland europe/north america

No they aren't, £40 is closer to $70.

#26 Posted by Animasta (14698 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

@UssjTrunks said:

At least (most of you) get free education. Try paying $10,000-20,000 (some graduate programs go as high as $70K) a year for school. I'd rather get ripped off on a few games/game items. ;)

Apart from, that 'table' shows it's more expensive in England, where we have to pay about $15000 a year for undergrad courses plus much higher living costs. My point being, those are bad things to compare.

@Animasta said:

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

the british prices for games is usually always better compared to mainland europe/north america

No they aren't, £40 is closer to $70.

but aren't games usually 30-35 pounds there?

#27 Posted by AlexW00d (6283 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@AlexW00d said:

@UssjTrunks said:

At least (most of you) get free education. Try paying $10,000-20,000 (some graduate programs go as high as $70K) a year for school. I'd rather get ripped off on a few games/game items. ;)

Apart from, that 'table' shows it's more expensive in England, where we have to pay about $15000 a year for undergrad courses plus much higher living costs. My point being, those are bad things to compare.

@Animasta said:

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

the british prices for games is usually always better compared to mainland europe/north america

No they aren't, £40 is closer to $70.

but aren't games usually 30-35 pounds there?

No. Only PC games. And PC games in the US are generally between 40-50 dollars, right?

I do feel sorry for those using the Euro though, as places like Steam seem to think it's 1:1 with the dollar and euro, when actually it's about $1.22 to the euro.

But all this stuff is dumb anyway, 'cause the cost of living is much higher in the UK and most of Europe, and as such, the average earnings is slightly higher, so it kind of evens out? It's all relative I guess.

#28 Posted by J12088 (454 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@AlexW00d said:

@UssjTrunks said:

At least (most of you) get free education. Try paying $10,000-20,000 (some graduate programs go as high as $70K) a year for school. I'd rather get ripped off on a few games/game items. ;)

Apart from, that 'table' shows it's more expensive in England, where we have to pay about $15000 a year for undergrad courses plus much higher living costs. My point being, those are bad things to compare.

@Animasta said:

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

the british prices for games is usually always better compared to mainland europe/north america

No they aren't, £40 is closer to $70.

but aren't games usually 30-35 pounds there?

Console games are £40. If you shop around you can get them for £35. We're much better than the rest of europe but still slightly overcharged compared to America. Doesn't matter really. Wait a week and games are down to £30 anyway.

#29 Posted by UssjTrunks (534 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

No. Only PC games. And PC games in the US are generally between 40-50 dollars, right?

New releases are usually $60.

#30 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3340 posts) -
@mandude said:

Still, you're right. I'm in America now, and my "health insurance" is having enough money set aside for a ticket back to Ireland.

Do what I do: have an inordinate amount of pre-existing conditions and virtually no income. Sooner or later you'll get access to a free clinic with frequent 4-hour wait times.
 
I'm pretty sure it's the best option for health care.
#31 Posted by makari (600 posts) -

@Benny said:

Thirdly, what's a cow finisher?

Instead of sticking a pointy flag in the corpse of people you finish in PvP, you drop a cow on them.

#32 Posted by Benny (1953 posts) -

@makari: Supagangsta

#33 Posted by RobbieMac (535 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam: All Canadian healthcare facilities are like that. If you don't have to wait 3 hours for your appointment that is considered good.

Broke your leg, arm, nose? You need to wait 4 hours for X-Rays, then another hour for the results just to hear them say, "Yeah it is broken, here is a sling".

#34 Posted by Hunkulese (2748 posts) -

When will people understand that North America and Europe are not the same place? They are two completely different markets an I don't see the problem treating them as such. You set your prices based on your market an nobody is getting screwed.

#35 Posted by Dourin (233 posts) -

@Hunkulese: The problem with that is that then you are still generalizing to an extent. By your rule, people in California should have to pay more for games than I do in the midwest, because the standard of living is higher there, therefore market prices are higher. I want my $30 games for living in cow country!

But yeah, as a couple of people have pointed out here, I believe those EU prices are including their respective VAT, where as here in the US, in most cases, there are no taxes on digital online purchases. So EU may be getting screwed, but it's by pennies, not euros, and by their government, not Anet. There's no reason Anet should take a hit on gem profits because your country wants to charge a tax.

#36 Edited by UssjTrunks (534 posts) -

@RobbieMac said:

@Dark_Lord_Spam: All Canadian healthcare facilities are like that. If you don't have to wait 3 hours for your appointment that is considered good.

Broke your leg, arm, nose? You need to wait 4 hours for X-Rays, then another hour for the results just to hear them say, "Yeah it is broken, here is a sling".

It's only our emergency rooms that are like that. Clinic wait times are fine. I don't think I've ever waited longer than an hour.

#37 Posted by ZoomyRamen (237 posts) -

Post it here too, just so people see it

This reflects tax-exclusive v. tax-inclusive pricing.

In America, you pay the price you see plus sales tax.

In Europe, you pay the price you see. The vendor pays VAT out of that price.

VAT rates in EU range from roughly 15%-25%. We pay based on the location of our EU office, in UK, so we pay a flat 20% for all of EU.

€1 = €0.833 base + €0.167 VAT

€0.83 base = $1.02 (at today's exchange rate)

~ MO

Also, im a dumbass.

#38 Edited by Dourin (233 posts) -

@ZoomyRamen: You're mostly right, but on digital purchases such as this, at least in the majority of the US, we don't pay taxes. That's the point I was getting at. So the price you see in $ is the price we pay, period. Where as in EU, the price you see in € is the price you pay, but that includes VAT, which accounts for at least some of the premium you guys are seeing in pricing compared to the US.

Edit: And I just verified this by going to the final stage of purchasing gems, and it indeed charges $0.00 in tax on the purchase.

#39 Posted by Gaff (1773 posts) -

@ZoomyRamen said:

Also, im a dumbass.

@Dourin said:

@ZoomyRamen: You're mostly right

That's not a nice thing to say.

#40 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2695 posts) -

@UssjTrunks said:

@mandude said:

American prices are before tax, so by the time they've made a purchase, they're paying more. Mind you, I'm still not sure if it works out. You'd have to know the tax rates for each country and each state and compare them then.

Thank god I've a tax free Alaskan credit card though.

Taxes are very low in most states, so it still ends up being cheaper.

The trade-off is that they pay inordinate amounts of money for basic things like healthcare and education.

So...

USA: Get ripped of on big things that actually affect your quality of life

Europe: Get ripped off on trivial consumer goods

I don't know about you guys, but I'd take the latter in a hearbeat. ;)

Or live in an intelligent state like Massachusetts and get the best of both worlds.

#41 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Kidavenger said:

35 pounds on amazon.co.uk

35 British pounds = 54.6735 U.S. dollars

60 dollars on amazon.com

So, how are Europeans getting screwed again?

people need to stop counting UK as part of Europe sometimes, we don't use the Euro which is what faces the worst price comparisons usually.

#42 Posted by ZoomyRamen (237 posts) -

@Dourin: Ah...Well a little more mad now. I probably won't be buying Gems at that price. £8.50 for 800 seems a bit off!

@Gaff: We have a love/hate thing going on.

#43 Posted by BrainSonata (105 posts) -

Oh how I want to live in America.

#44 Posted by Kidavenger (3570 posts) -

@Sooty: 49 euros on Amazon.de which still only works out to $60 US, the exact same price as amazon.com

The whole tax issue; people in the US are supposed to self assess if the vendor doesn't charge it, most states have already started clamping down on Amazon; it's only a matter of time before that loophole is completely closed up.

#45 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

@Sooty: 49 euros on Amazon.de which still only works out to $60 US, the exact same price as amazon.com

The whole tax issue; people in the US are supposed to self assess if the vendor doesn't charge it, most states have already started clamping down on Amazon; it's only a matter of time before that loophole is completely closed up.

I didn't mean in this case, just usually Euro gets the worst deals, actually no way, that'd be the Aussies?

#46 Posted by Tarkhein (71 posts) -

Australians pay in US dollars (in GW1, we were lumped in the UK region and had to pay in GBP and defaulted to EU servers). As for box at retail, we pay ~AU$20 more than normal despite being above parity with the US dollar.

#47 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Nothing new really. This kind of stuff is always way more expensive around here. A 800 MSP XBLA game isn't 10$ for me, but almost 20$.

And you're a sucker if you buy gems for cash either way (or you likely just have surplus cash for whatever stupid shit you want). You can buy gems with in-game gold by the way. Gems are being traded for player generated in-game gold, so if you intend to buy gold with gems that you've bought with cash, I can buy your gems with in-game gold. It's a win/win situation. So who gives a shit? It's all vanity items and temporary XP buffs anyways.

Btw. in many European countries people likely earn more on average than Americans. Pretty sure many Central European countries and the UK got way less poor/working poor people. Guess that evens it out a bit. I'm sure other more 'exotic' gaming markets get shaftet much worse.

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