How to Improve the Guild Wars 2 Experience for the Average Joe

#1 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Big fat 'Follow Me!' HUD-Symbol marking NPCs in elaborate Event Chains inbetween events, because Average Joe will never learn otherwise.

Just sayin' - NPC Stalking. Can you dig it?

#2 Posted by Ulain (315 posts) -

*Points to WoW* Casual Timesink Adventure is that way, on the left. If you hit Aion, you've gone too far.

Isn't it basically accepted that handrails and glowing paths totally distract players from the environment around them and cheapen all the artistic work put into these usually beautiful games?

#3 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@Ulain said:

*Points to WoW* Casual Timesink Adventure is that way, on the left. If you hit Aion, you've gone too far.

Isn't it basically accepted that handrails and glowing paths totally distract players from the environment around them and cheapen all the artistic work put into these usually beautiful games?

Every now and then I'm just put off by how epicly a majority of players seems to miss the point, and how badly they're missing out. Really messes with my groove. Especially if I see the same idiots bad-mouthing the game in the chat in turn.

As an example - just recently I had to collect some ancient dwarven artifacts in a mountain lake for some dude. We've been like 6-7 players doing this menial task. After its completion, of course I was the only one sticking around to see through the event chain to its end - which was another 5 or 6 events away and told a neat little story - just like a classic questchain would, if people actually bothered to read it - only magnitudes more alive.

Not saying I need more intrusive HUD. Certainly not saying I want it for myself. Just saying - Guild Wars 2 might be needing it, to retain the 'Average Joe' shmuck, since they are lacking both the time and the passion to learn the ropes of such a new experience, or are simply too dumb to do so by their own devices.

#4 Posted by Ulain (315 posts) -

@Seppli: Apologies, after seeing the other thread, the context is more clear now :P

I notice that too, so many people get the first DE reward and just wander off when it seems like 9 times out of 10 there is a follow-up one. What level is this at? If it's higher up, I'm scared, but if it's lower leveled, hopefully in time people will realize most of the events have more to them than a single quest. I'd also say if you're familiar enough with the DE (or not, seems like they're all pretty much like this) tell the group in /say or even /map to stick around for more goodies. It's sad more people don't want to listen to the lore, but they'll hear it anyway and stay for extra rewards, so it's win-win.

My biggest gripe is when high levels roam through the low level zones for the easy, fast DEs and just 2 shot mobs, making it that much harder to tag and get Gold instead of Silver or Bronze.

#5 Posted by shinboy630 (1192 posts) -

@Ulain said:

*Points to WoW* Casual Timesink Adventure is that way, on the left. If you hit Aion, you've gone too far.

As someone who bought into the Aion hype and played it for roughly a year or so past launch, I literally lol'd at that part.

#6 Posted by jesterroyal (364 posts) -

@Ulain said:

My biggest gripe is when high levels roam through the low level zones for the easy, fast DEs and just 2 shot mobs, making it that much harder to tag and get Gold instead of Silver or Bronze.

I'm not really sure this actually happens. I don't really know any high level players who roam low levels for specifically for events. Dynamic events aren't particularly easier at lower levels either. And on top of that I could see a theif two shotting lower level mobs but your run of the mill 80 still has to hit them a few more times than that. My level 80 got wiped in a level 25 zone I hadn't explored yet the other day doing an event. If you are active in the event its near impossible to not get a gold and high level player in a low level zone isn't likely to have enough influence to drop your clear rating.

#7 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8606 posts) -

MMO's are so great, shame about the communities. Which I mean something more deeper than you'd think.

#8 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

MMO's are so great, shame about the communities. Which I mean something more deeper than you'd think.

Online multiplayer worlds are best served with an air of mystery, like the Souls series does it. Or Journey. They're on to something with that type of design. I like to call it 'Random Player Encounter'. I believe, if some tech and design wizzes expand on the concept, a whole new breed of MMOs might arise - meshing the best of singleplayer RPGs with the most intruiging social aspects of MMOs.

MMO players usually become detached from their gameworld, and dispell its magic by eroding the 4th wall and uncovering and exploiting the underlying mechanics for the most efficient pursuit of 'building up my character', which is clearly to the detriment of both the game, and its communities. Taking away the clarity of a traditional online environment and replacing it with something much more arcane and random counteracts that to an extent - far enough for magic to endure more easily.

At the cost of more commonplace social interactions of course, but who wants those in the first place.

#9 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8606 posts) -
@Seppli: People get offered rewards and more to play together. Every thing that in other mmo's punished you is now helping/rewarding you in some way. It still blows. People are the problem, and even with some super magic tech it'll be up to the people to act normal. It should be.
#10 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1522 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@Ulain said:

*Points to WoW* Casual Timesink Adventure is that way, on the left. If you hit Aion, you've gone too far.

Isn't it basically accepted that handrails and glowing paths totally distract players from the environment around them and cheapen all the artistic work put into these usually beautiful games?

Every now and then I'm just put off by how epicly a majority of players seems to miss the point, and how badly they're missing out. Really messes with my groove. Especially if I see the same idiots bad-mouthing the game in the chat in turn.

As an example - just recently I had to collect some ancient dwarven artifacts in a mountain lake for some dude. We've been like 6-7 players doing this menial task. After its completion, of course I was the only one sticking around to see through the event chain to its end - which was another 5 or 6 events away and told a neat little story - just like a classic questchain would, if people actually bothered to read it - only magnitudes more alive.

Not saying I need more intrusive HUD. Certainly not saying I want it for myself. Just saying - Guild Wars 2 might be needing it, to retain the 'Average Joe' shmuck, since they are lacking both the time and the passion to learn the ropes of such a new experience, or are simply too dumb to do so by their own devices.

I should really stick around for that next time. Every time I ran past that area and saw that event was going on I'd do it for the quick silver and then continue on to where I was going (dragons O_O).

#11 Posted by Ulain (315 posts) -

@jesterroyal: I'm sure it's not intentional; they're either helping guildies or were on their way some place else, etc. but it still happens that you catch the tail-end of some dynamic event via NPC or being in the area, and by the time you get there, it's over due to the higher-than-average damage being put out.

Overall it's not a huge deal, more of an inconvenience at best, but I do like getting Gold on a DE where all I did was revive the quest NPC, then everyone else escorted him to his destination.

@Seppli said:

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

MMO's are so great, shame about the communities. Which I mean something more deeper than you'd think.

Online multiplayer worlds are best served with an air of mystery, like the Souls series does it. Or Journey. They're on to something with that type of design. I like to call it 'Random Player Encounter'. I believe, if some tech and design wizzes expand on the concept, a whole new breed of MMOs might arise - meshing the best of singleplayer RPGs with the most intruiging social aspects of MMOs.

MMO players usually become detached from their gameworld, and dispell its magic by eroding the 4th wall and uncovering and exploiting the underlying mechanics for the most efficient pursuit of 'building up my character', which is clearly to the detriment of both the game, and its communities. Taking away the clarity of a traditional online environment and replacing it with something much more arcane and random counteracts that to an extent - far enough for magic to endure more easily.

At the cost of more commonplace social interactions of course, but who wants those in the first place.

This is why I loved playing EverQuest 12 years ago. It was a breath of fresh air and information was not so readily available (and even when it was, you still had to decipher most of it or experience it first-hand). Dungeons were always populated because they weren't instanced, and it was in your best interest to group up and be friendly because monsters became exponentially harder to take down yourself.

I feel GW2 has at least taken a step back into that era, opposed to something like WoW where seeing another person usually means "okay asshole, good luck trying to tag this ore node/dragon/bear ass before I do!" And don't get me started on cross-realm LFG in that game.

#12 Posted by audioBusting (1672 posts) -

They could add one line of dialogue or something when you see NPC's on the way to another event, that'd be a good compromise (but I guess they'll have to record the voices). Maybe a mark could be put on the minimap, not above the NPC or elsewhere in the HUD. I feel like making it too obvious would systematize the experience too much, detaching the players even further from the world like you said about MMO players.. I like Guild Wars 2 because it doesn't feel like a bunch of RPG systems thrown at me (i.e. how it doesn't feel like most other MMORPG). I think event chains happening is quite logical, so making it too obvious would just be appeasing the "average MMO player"'s traditions.. which is what I wish Guild Wars 2 to not do. So far I find people sticking around after events in lower-level areas though, so that's encouraging.

Speaking of chains, do they change when we fail any of the events? It sounds like it from the dialogue but I haven't confirmed that yet.

#13 Posted by halcyonTwilight (76 posts) -

@audioBusting: There are a few chains that change when you fail stage(s) of the event. For instance, if players completely fail to stop the Sons of Svanir shaman in Wayfarer Foothills, the event chain doesn't default back to the original starting event, there is a new event where players have to kill the newly transformed shaman (who transforms into a gigantic icy oakheart) as he rampages across the zone. The meta-zone events in the Harathi Hinterlands also change based on which camps need to be captured.

#14 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3461 posts) -

I like to drop a hint to other players as subtly as possible, generally in the order of:

-> running back and forth and jumping around a mobile NPC to indicate oncoming activity

-> doing the /beckon @ emote to one or two people

-> straight-up saying "yo guys, this lady is about to run over there and summon an ancient hellspawn and if you don't follow us I'm going to get fucking murdered"

@audioBusting said:

Speaking of chains, do they change when we fail any of the events? It sounds like it from the dialogue but I haven't confirmed that yet.

Early on, failed events typically just lead to environmental changes, a lack of unique rewards, and a cooldown before the "recovery event." Later in the game, you get large-scale enemy forces that can have multiple event chains in a tug-of-war for land on a single map.

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