Jon Peters on the New Gamescom Demo

#1 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
#2 Posted by TheHT (11769 posts) -

By the end of that I got the feeling that Guild Wars 2 is this convention only product that you gotta come out to play. Seriously indeed, so seriously they were all 'fuck E3, we'll wait for open shows.'
 
God, I wish I was in Deutschland right now.

#3 Posted by Troncek (254 posts) -

I'll be going. Need to check out PvP. :)

#4 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -
 Time to Show their Cards!
#5 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Great read. Exciting news. Guild Wars 2 is 'the most paper-awesome' game at the moment. Can't wait to put its awesomeness thesis to the test myself and check out its tangible awesomeness for realz. Too bad I ain't going to Cologne. Now let's just hope that there's gonna be lots of footage (direct feed HD plix) from the GamesCom build.

#6 Posted by Benny (1955 posts) -

Yeah it certainly sounds like it won't be arriving till 2012, unless it's just a company-wide bluff and it will hit holiday 2011!!! (Stranger things have happened)

Couldn't be more excited for this game.

#7 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

Very glad to hear they've ditched the idea of potions, that was one of the few aspects of the game I wasn't fond of.

Pretty much guarantee's we won't see the game this year, but I never expected that anyway.. Launching alongside Old Republic would be a bad idea, even if GW2 looks a hell of a lot better.

#8 Posted by Thor_Molecules (732 posts) -

I trust these people to make the right decisions regarding Guild Wars 2. What I have played last year at gamescom already eclipsed any other MMO I have played before, and I have played a metric ton of MMORPG's. For a build that was supposedly pre-alpha, it played like a final release title, and a very good one at that.

They also revealed the Thief class at Gamescom last year, let's all hold hands and pray they'll reveal the final class this week as well!

Take as long as you want developing this gem, Arenanet, you already have me hooked.

#9 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -
@WinterSnowblind said:

Very glad to hear they've ditched the idea of potions, that was one of the few aspects of the game I wasn't fond of.

Pretty much guarantee's we won't see the game this year, but I never expected that anyway.. Launching alongside Old Republic would be a bad idea, even if GW2 looks a hell of a lot better.

Reads to me like they still need to complete both the Asura and Sylvari starter zones at the very least. Might really be a holiday 2012 release, to my dismay. Just have to try my best and not 'wait on it'. Waiting would be unbearable.
 
That will pit them against the next WoW expansion though. Remains to be seen how much sway WoW still has these days with the MMORPG audience at large.
 
Hoping that they're going for a late spring or early fall release. May or September 2012.
#10 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -
@Buckfitches said:

I trust these people to make the right decisions regarding Guild Wars 2. What I have played last year at gamescom already eclipsed any other MMO I have played before, and I have played a metric ton of MMORPG's. For a build that was supposedly pre-alpha, it played like a final release title, and a very good one at that.

They also revealed the Thief class at Gamescom last year, let's all hold hands and pray they'll reveal the final class this week as well!

Take as long as you want developing this gem, Arenanet, you already have me hooked.

Quite certain that was PAX Prime. Dang - that's been a year soon. Likely the final class will not be revealed during this Summer's convention season. They still need reveals in their quiver for marketing 2012.
#11 Posted by Vexxan (4612 posts) -

I've waited for five years, I can wait a bit longer. For every article I read this game just seems better and better. Learning skills by using the weapon tied to it? Madness!

#12 Edited by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@Buckfitches said:

They also revealed the Thief class at Gamescom last year, let's all hold hands and pray they'll reveal the final class this week as well!

Unfortunately, they've said that the 8th profession *cough*MESMER*cough* won't be revealed at Gamescom or PAX Prime (and I believe you're thinking of the necromancer; the thief was revealed at PAX East).
#13 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -
@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@Buckfitches said:

They also revealed the Thief class at Gamescom last year, let's all hold hands and pray they'll reveal the final class this week as well!

Unfortunately, they've said that the 8th profession *cough*MESMER*cough* won't be revealed at Gamescom or PAX Prime (and I believe you're thinking of the necromancer; the thief was revealed at PAX East).
I bet it's gonna be some kind of 'planty' green mage. Something that's custom tailored to the Sylvari lore. Mesmer has been denied outright. As in saying : 'The final class ain't the Mesmer' - at least that's the info which was given in the most recent German Gamestar issue.
#14 Posted by Benny (1955 posts) -
#15 Edited by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@Seppli said:

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@Buckfitches said:

They also revealed the Thief class at Gamescom last year, let's all hold hands and pray they'll reveal the final class this week as well!

Unfortunately, they've said that the 8th profession *cough*MESMER*cough* won't be revealed at Gamescom or PAX Prime (and I believe you're thinking of the necromancer; the thief was revealed at PAX East).
I bet it's gonna be some kind of 'planty' green mage. Something that's custom tailored to the Sylvari lore. Mesmer has been denied outright. As in saying : 'The final class ain't the Mesmer' - at least that's the info which was given in the most recent German Gamestar issue.
That stuff is essentially bunk - crazy, unconfirmed German ramblings at best. Plus, they wouldn't create a profession so heavily biased towards one race (and they already have earth attunement for eles).
#16 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

Hmm. Changes to the skill system look interesting - I wonder what they are doing with the skills now that they don't use energy. Will skill usage be cooldown based? Hopefully the PvP streams tomorrow night will reveal a little more, because that's where this kind-of stuff really matters, and I'm very curious to see how PvP is shaping up.

As for skill acquisition, using a weapon to gain its skills sounds like fun, but that kind-of makes rebuilding hard... I can see myself swapping between weapons just to give them "xp". With so many options available to each class, that seems rather cumbersome - but then, perhaps the learning process for a weapon is really short. If they are using it JUST as a way to teach a person how to use X weapon with Y class, and not to factor it into overall class progression (ie, make it a quick ramp up), then that should be cool.

Perhaps my favorite announcement was the new weapons for each class. Greatswords for the Guardian sounds effing cool, and they should add something interesting to Rangers. Hammers for Warriors and Guardians may be badass, but I never liked hammer in the old game, so there's that. It's good to see them expanding the options available, because before things were looking rather limiting to be honest. I've never truly warmed to having 10 of my 15 skills predestined, but giving me more weapons/options is some concession.

All in all, I think the GW1 acquisition system was just fine - but hey, new isn't always bad. As for energy and combat in general, which is prob. one of the most important things in any MMO, I'll have to see more. But I'm definitely happy about the class changes, so overall, I'm just as hooked as ever.

#17 Posted by RobbieMac (535 posts) -

Can't describe how glad I am that there will be no potions that, if anything was the one direction I didn't like where the game was going.  Nothing more annoying than buying tons of pots before you go out exploring or forgetting you don't have pots and having to travel back.  Maybe this is just because I essentially only ever play casters.  I am hoping that Guilds are mentioned at some point at either Gamescom or PAX, since it is linked to PvP in some ways.

#18 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

@RobbieMac: Yes, and potions made no sense for PvP at all. But still, this fundamentally changes how skills work, so I'm crossing my fingers in the hope that this ends up good.

My idea of the perfect online game is something that controls like God of War, but is massively multiplayer. Anet seems very interested in making GW2 play more like an action game, with the dodging and these new skill changes, but execution is where it's at. Plus, in the end, they have to stop the spinning wheel somewhere - I would rather they not pull a Blizzard, no matter how much good will I have for them.

#19 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic said:

Hmm. Changes to the skill system look interesting - I wonder what they are doing with the skills now that they don't use energy. Will skill usage be cooldown based? Hopefully the PvP streams tomorrow night will reveal a little more, because that's where this kind-of stuff really matters, and I'm very curious to see how PvP is shaping up.

As for skill acquisition, using a weapon to gain its skills sounds like fun, but that kind-of makes rebuilding hard... I can see myself swapping between weapons just to give them "xp". With so many options available to each class, that seems rather cumbersome - but then, perhaps the learning process for a weapon is really short. If they are using it JUST as a way to teach a person how to use X weapon with Y class, and not to factor it into overall class progression (ie, make it a quick ramp up), then that should be cool.

Perhaps my favorite announcement was the new weapons for each class. Greatswords for the Guardian sounds effing cool, and they should add something interesting to Rangers. Hammers for Warriors and Guardians may be badass, but I never liked hammer in the old game, so there's that. It's good to see them expanding the options available, because before things were looking rather limiting to be honest. I've never truly warmed to having 10 of my 15 skills predestined, but giving me more weapons/options is some concession.

All in all, I think the GW1 acquisition system was just fine - but hey, new isn't always bad. As for energy and combat in general, which is prob. one of the most important things in any MMO, I'll have to see more. But I'm definitely happy about the class changes, so overall, I'm just as hooked as ever.

Cool-down is the only other resource (besides the thief's initiative) for skills that is known, so it should be the case that it's the limiting factor. As for training skills, Eric Flannum has said that a weapon's second skill will be unlocked after just ten kills (likely before you finish the tutorial) and the requirement will not increase significantly for each skill in turn. The skill tier now progresses based on your level, which should mean that picking up a new weapon won't immediately make you useless in combat.
 
What worries me about the new unlock system is if it will actually help to teach players the most effective way to use the weapon. If all of the skills can be unlocked by spamming 1 and 2 until enough enemies have died, then nothing's been learned. Ideally they would create a set of "tutorial instances" - each associated with a different set of skills - that would put the player in a situation that called for the use of the skill being trained. This probably requires a huge amount of additional work in comparison with the new system, and we haven't even seen the new one in action yet, but I can't really see a significant benefit to the strategy of the player with simple kill-gates.
#20 Posted by michaelfossbakk (236 posts) -

I can't even remember how long I've been following this game.

#21 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

...

Cool-down is the only other resource (besides the thief's initiative) for skills that is known, so it should be the case that it's the limiting factor. As for training skills, Eric Flannum has said that a weapon's second skill will be unlocked after just ten kills (likely before you finish the tutorial) and the requirement will not increase significantly for each skill in turn. The skill tier now progresses based on your level, which should mean that picking up a new weapon won't immediately make you useless in combat. What worries me about the new unlock system is if it will actually help to teach players the most effective way to use the weapon. If all of the skills can be unlocked by spamming 1 and 2 until enough enemies have died, then nothing's been learned. Ideally they would create a set of "tutorial instances" - each associated with a different set of skills - that would put the player in a situation that called for the use of the skill being trained. This probably requires a huge amount of additional work in comparison with the new system, and we haven't even seen the new one in action yet, but I can't really see a significant benefit to the strategy of the player with simple kill-gates.

Interesting - is that interview up anywhere? I may be blanking on something huge, but does anything else use a zero energy, cooldown based system for skills? I can see cooldowns being something quite difficult to nail down balance wise (if the effects are large), so jury is out on that one.

As for kill gates, I agree to some extent. Having training events would be all the way cool, but yeah, considering that Anet isn't using instances nor quests, that would indeed be a hard thing to create. Then again, newbies tend to somehow miss or skip over things like this anyhow. Perhaps all they really need are well realised tool tips and a reliance on the player figuring out their own playstyle with a given skill. I can see any new player immediately mashing a new skill the moment they get it, so perhaps low kill gates do lend opportunity for some form of "learning". Once you get into things like effective usage of banners and shouts as a warrior, or how to properly utilize your packs as an engineer, at some point experience and communal teaching are the only real methods of player skill gain anyway.

Given that Anet playtest like crazy, I'd bet that if kill gates don't work, they'll ditch them in no time, so I'm not too concerned. It's this skill balance and combat pacing thing that has me intrigued.

UPDATE: Watching the Gamespot interview, there's a section with the new energy system on an ele. Seems like it could work - in her case, they still have slot 1 as an auto-attack skill, with slot 2 being a 10ish second recharge and 3-5 locked. Hoping to see more in the next couple of days.

#22 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic: That's the 2010 demo, but I can see how it wouldn't register. They'd reduced the energy cost of skills to so little that for the longest time I didn't realize that they were using energy. Guess I'm just ahead of the design curb.
#23 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@selfconfessedcynic: That's the 2010 demo, but I can see how it wouldn't register. They'd reduced the energy cost of skills to so little that for the longest time I didn't realize that they were using energy. Guess I'm just ahead of the design curb.

WOW

Yup, you got me - 2010. I lol'd.

Well, shit's still unknown then. Will wait and see for this year. (I was wondering why they were the only ones with video... : D )

But then, I guess it's kindof the same thing in the end. Barely any energy cost vs no energy cost - both are rather odd systems imo. I like the energy management minigame of GW1, but am not too sad to see it go - I just wonder how much they wish to focus on dodging, etc, considering it's the only thing that uses energy now - and how balance is going to work out with only 10 skills and recharge to deal with.

#24 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic: According to thisGame Informer article, the energy bar is just referred to as a "dodge meter" now. So I guess that answers one question.
#25 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam: Yeah, I saw that - and it looks like a little dude dodging on those IGN videos posted in the main gamescom thread.

So thats something - you can dodge 3-4 times before running out of stamina (which is what I'll call it now), which recharges and everything else is just cooldown based.

#26 Posted by TheHT (11769 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic said:

@Dark_Lord_Spam: Yeah, I saw that - and it looks like a little dude dodging on those IGN videos posted in the main gamescom thread.

So thats something - you can dodge 3-4 times before running out of stamina (which is what I'll call it now), which recharges and everything else is just cooldown based.

for a theif who wants to get in and cause mayhem all over, that could get tedious to manage.
#27 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3459 posts) -
@TheHT: Peters did say that there's a mechanic in place to replace the now-defunct energy potions, but it's not been implemented in the new demo, so we'll have to wait a bit longer to see if profession impacts it at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
#28 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2590 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam: Agreed - the "3-4" quote was for either a necromancer charr or asura warrior. I assume the more agile classes, such as thief, would have more dodge. In fact, I bet the level of armor you wear significantly effects this.

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