Just listening to the Giant Bombcast.

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#1 Posted by Elitespy (48 posts) -

Is it just me or does anybody else cringe when they talk mention Guild Wars 2? I remember a few months back when Jeff was in the beta and he was talking about it, he just seemed very mis-informed. Then listening to their podcast today it seems like they don't think GW2 is a real MMO. I don't mind negative reviews of GW2 everybody has their own opinions but just downright wrong info kinda bugs me. Oh well, maybe it's just a me thing.

#2 Posted by kindone (2833 posts) -

Haven't listened to the Bombcast yet, but I can see how that can be something you find annoying.

#3 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

They're like that for every single MMO. It's nothing new.

#4 Posted by Toxeia (725 posts) -

I forget Guild Wars exists.

#5 Posted by shinboy630 (1193 posts) -

Yeah it is kind of disappointing that they don't seem interested in at least getting correct/up to date info, but hey, the dudes aren't into MMOs. Nothing we can do.

#6 Posted by Dezztroy (864 posts) -
@CL60 said:
They're like that for every single MMO. It's nothing new.
Not just MMOs, it happens often with all genres.
#7 Posted by SmilingPig (1341 posts) -

I don't even remember them mentioning GW2.

#8 Posted by Maystack (902 posts) -

They've mentioned the original Guild Wars a few times in the past couple of bombcasts, and they'd be right in saying that wasn't an MMO. I don't remember much about them mentioning GW2, except for maybe when they were talking about pricing models? I'm just waiting until Jeff plays it for a few hours at launch to see what his final opinion on the game is.

#9 Posted by Elitespy (48 posts) -

@SmilingPig: Jeff mentioned it briefly (very briefly) while talking about SWTOR going free to play.

#10 Posted by shinboy630 (1193 posts) -

@Maystack: @SmilingPig: It was a real off-hand remark during the pricing model discussion, with Jeff(?) saying that GW2 "More closely resembles an MMO". I assume he meant when comparing it to GW1.

#11 Posted by Maystack (902 posts) -

@shinboy630: Yeah, I thought's that where it was. I think that's all the types of mentions the game's going to get at the moment, seeing as none of them have played it anywhere close to recently. Brad said on twitter he was going to jump into the beta, but that was the same weekend as MLG, so I guess he was sidetracked by that.

#12 Posted by Elitespy (48 posts) -

I guess I am just thinking back to when Jeff played in the press beta, but them mentioning it in the podcast just brought that back to my memory.

#13 Posted by Benny (1955 posts) -

"More closely resembles an MMO" as in "Is a full fledged MMORPG with no monthly fee?" I do hope some staffers put some real time in and see how good it is.

#14 Posted by Dourin (234 posts) -

@Maystack said:

They've mentioned the original Guild Wars a few times in the past couple of bombcasts, and they'd be right in saying that wasn't an MMO. I don't remember much about them mentioning GW2, except for maybe when they were talking about pricing models? I'm just waiting until Jeff plays it for a few hours at launch to see what his final opinion on the game is.

Yeah I dunno. I literally could not care less what Jeff's opinion is on GW2 at this point. No offense to the dude, I generally agree with a lot of his opinions, but I have zero respect for anything he says about an MMO ever.

#15 Posted by Anupsis (312 posts) -

I think he just meant that GW1 was not really an MMO and GW2 is a true MMO.

For the record I am pretty interested in GW2 since it seems to have the quality of a subscription MMO without the monthly fee.

#16 Edited by CaLe (4054 posts) -

They work long hours (including commutes) and it's their job to cover games in general, so it would be silly to expect them to care too much about MMOs.

#17 Posted by Brodehouse (10130 posts) -

Hey, I liked SWTOR a lot, you have no idea what misinformation and vindictive apathy really sounds like.

Online
#18 Posted by Maystack (902 posts) -

@Dourin said:

@Maystack said:

They've mentioned the original Guild Wars a few times in the past couple of bombcasts, and they'd be right in saying that wasn't an MMO. I don't remember much about them mentioning GW2, except for maybe when they were talking about pricing models? I'm just waiting until Jeff plays it for a few hours at launch to see what his final opinion on the game is.

Yeah I dunno. I literally could not care less what Jeff's opinion is on GW2 at this point. No offense to the dude, I generally agree with a lot of his opinions, but I have zero respect for anything he says about an MMO ever.

I'm pretty much just interested in his final verdict at this point, even though it's highly likely that he won't be a fan.

#19 Posted by Trilogy (2692 posts) -

I kind of cringe whenever they talk about MMO's in general.

#20 Edited by UssjTrunks (533 posts) -

@shinboy630 said:

@Maystack: @SmilingPig: It was a real off-hand remark during the pricing model discussion, with Jeff(?) saying that GW2 "More closely resembles an MMO". I assume he meant when comparing it to GW1.

GW2 is very clearly an MMO, it doesn't just "more closely" resemble one.

#21 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2699 posts) -

@Trilogy said:

I kind of cringe whenever they talk about MMO's in general.

This. Or cooperative games.

#22 Posted by Dourin (234 posts) -

@Maystack said:

@Dourin said:

@Maystack said:

They've mentioned the original Guild Wars a few times in the past couple of bombcasts, and they'd be right in saying that wasn't an MMO. I don't remember much about them mentioning GW2, except for maybe when they were talking about pricing models? I'm just waiting until Jeff plays it for a few hours at launch to see what his final opinion on the game is.

Yeah I dunno. I literally could not care less what Jeff's opinion is on GW2 at this point. No offense to the dude, I generally agree with a lot of his opinions, but I have zero respect for anything he says about an MMO ever.

I'm pretty much just interested in his final verdict at this point, even though it's highly likely that he won't be a fan.

Eh, I can tell you right now it'll go something like this: "The game's just bad. It tries to do action combat, but still feels like an MMO. The lack of quests leads players to be confused on what to do, and what is there to do is just the same boring old shit. The art style is ok, but the graphics look dated. It lets you dodge, but with no on-screen indicators of when an enemy is using a big attack, it's ultimately useless. And I spent like 100 hours with the game even though I hated it after 30 minutes, so you pretty much have to listen to what I have to say."

As I said before, I have mad respect for the dude in other avenues, but when it comes to MMO's, his opinions are not only often misguided and ill-informed, but he begrudgingly sticks with a game he knows he hates, seemingly just to validate his hatred for it, and ultimately hurts the image of the game to a lot of people who otherwise might have enjoyed it.

#23 Posted by Subjugation (4741 posts) -

At the end of the day they are within their right to have whatever opinion they want, but I agree it should at least be informed. He didn't really say much of anything about it on the bombcast though, just that quick remark about it being more mmo-like and not having a subscription fee. I've never relied on Giant Bomb for opinions on mmo's though since they don't have anyone that I really trust to cover them. They really don't. I lend more credence to the opinions of other venerable individuals like Kevin Van Ord or TotalBiscuit who I know will research and understand what they're talking about and have established themselves as having experience and interest in the genre.

#24 Posted by Carryboy (748 posts) -

Yeh this isn't limited to Guild wars 2/mmos unfortunately.

#25 Posted by MstrMnyBgs (128 posts) -

Sure seems like people on this forum are offended by a simple comment they made that wasn't intended to be a stab at Guild Wars 2. They weren't talking about Guild Wars 2 not being an MMO in general, they just said it was a different model than the typical MMO model, which is true. Stop getting offended by something taken out of context.

#26 Posted by Dourin (234 posts) -

@MstrMnyBgs said:

Sure seems like people on this forum are offended by a simple comment they made that wasn't intended to be a stab at Guild Wars 2. They weren't talking about Guild Wars 2 not being an MMO in general, they just said it was a different model than the typical MMO model, which is true. Stop getting offended by something taken out of context.

Nah, I'm not offended by anything they said. I haven't even listened to it yet. I just get annoyed at Jeff's continued "coverage" of MMO's in general. Also, if you've been around here a while, you'd know that there is precedent for concern when Jeff starts talking about (an) MMO(s) on the podcast.

#27 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1843 posts) -
@Brodehouse I know that feel
Bro and yes it is pretty teribble when they try to talk about it
#28 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1530 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Hey, I liked SWTOR a lot, you have no idea what misinformation and vindictive apathy really sounds like.

Pretty much this ^^^

#29 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2591 posts) -

@insane_shadowblade85 said:

@Brodehouse said:

Hey, I liked SWTOR a lot, you have no idea what misinformation and vindictive apathy really sounds like.

Pretty much this ^^^

Yep - heck, I don't even have interest in SWTOR (Holy Trinity games make me cringe), but they pretty much slandered it for a while there. Well, slander is a harsh word, but I distinctly remember a bunch of "kicking it while it was down". That said, I personally hope for zero Giant Bomb GW2 coverage, mainly because of my agreement with some of the other guys here;

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@Trilogy said:

I kind of cringe whenever they talk about MMO's in general.

This. Or cooperative games.

@Carryboy said:

Yeh this isn't limited to Guild wars 2/mmos unfortunately.

@Dourin said:

I just get annoyed at Jeff's continued "coverage" of MMO's in general. Also, if you've been around here a while, you'd know that there is precedent for concern when Jeff starts talking about (an) MMO(s) on the podcast.

(etc)

#30 Posted by BiG_Weasel (524 posts) -

Out of the four, I think that Brad actually "gets" MMOs better than the others. Vinny doesn't play them, and Ryan has a general feel for them. Jeff, based on what I've heard him say, likes the concept, but I don't think he has the time/patience to stick with a game for very long. In his defense, he plays a lot of games, too, and can't devote time to an MMO like we can. Who wants to bring work home with them, anyway? MMOs are not a sprint, like most other games- they're a marathon. They typically reward players for time invested. I am glad, though, that they acknowledged "pay to win" vs "cosmetic/convenience items" in terms of the two styles of F2P games. Thinking "play to win" is synonymous with F2P is a big misconception that people have with most of these games, and I think that a little public service announcement like that goes a long way.

#31 Posted by Phatmac (5728 posts) -

Ehh. MMO's are kind of bullshit when you think about it. I think they'll have more things to say about it when it comes out. I don't have any experience with the franchise so I'm not invested in their discussions in any way really.

#32 Posted by TheHT (11799 posts) -

@selfconfessedcynic said:

@insane_shadowblade85 said:

@Brodehouse said:

Hey, I liked SWTOR a lot, you have no idea what misinformation and vindictive apathy really sounds like.

Pretty much this ^^^

Yep - heck, I don't even have interest in SWTOR (Holy Trinity games make me cringe), but they pretty much slandered it for a while there. Well, slander is a harsh word, but I distinctly remember a bunch of "kicking it while it was down". That said, I personally hope for zero Giant Bomb GW2 coverage, mainly because of my agreement with some of the other guys here;

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@Trilogy said:

I kind of cringe whenever they talk about MMO's in general.

This. Or cooperative games.

@Carryboy said:

Yeh this isn't limited to Guild wars 2/mmos unfortunately.

@Dourin said:

I just get annoyed at Jeff's continued "coverage" of MMO's in general. Also, if you've been around here a while, you'd know that there is precedent for concern when Jeff starts talking about (an) MMO(s) on the podcast.

(etc)

Misinformation or not, a Quick Look would do well to show people how it looks and plays.

Even if they don't get deep into crafting, traits, PvP, or anything like that, core features like weapon skills, action-oriented combat, personal story, truly cooperative gameplay, no traditional quest system, dramatically increased scale, and no holy trinity are obvious enough that they'll shine through in a QL.

Of course the attitude the commentary takes would affect perception, but those obvious core features are different enough to go a long way in informing whether someone's interested or not.

But yeah, if they poopoo on it in the Bombcast, that would suck. BUT THEY WONT CAUSE THIS GAMES AWESOME!!

#33 Edited by DoctorWelch (2765 posts) -

It's not all that often, but one of the guys will occasionally just talk out of their ass about something which will represent a game in a negative light, even though the negative things they are talking about aren't actually true. Nobody's perfect though, so it'd be cool if they at least acknowledge that they may have spoken ignorantly once they realize it later, but I bet they don't remember half the stuff they said once a few weeks goes by.

#34 Posted by Xshinobi (404 posts) -

Every time they open their mouths to talk about MMOs it is clear that they have no clue what they are talking about.

#35 Posted by mrpandaman (872 posts) -

@DoctorWelch said:

It's not all that often, but one of the guys will occasionally just talk out of their ass about something which will represent a game in a negative light, even though the negative things they are talking about aren't actually true. Nobody's perfect though, so it'd be cool if they at least acknowledge that they may have spoken ignorantly once they realize it later, but I bet they don't remember half the stuff they said once a few weeks goes by.

Sometimes it's based on hearsay, or earlier builds of the games they have played or the very limited time they have committed.We all do it and only when confronted do we acknowledge it, otherwise we just sweep it under the rug. On occasion, the GB will voice their opinions based on those scenarios, especially when they think they have a feel of what the game is.

This is why Jeff has stated they need to expand their crew, because they do need a specialist who can cover mmorpgs / free-to-play games or someone who can cover JRPGs/ RPGs in general. Someone who can tell them that their info may be wrong in those genres.

#36 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4824 posts) -

@DoctorWelch said:

It's not all that often, but one of the guys will occasionally just talk out of their ass about something which will represent a game in a negative light, even though the negative things they are talking about aren't actually true. Nobody's perfect though, so it'd be cool if they at least acknowledge that they may have spoken ignorantly once they realize it later, but I bet they don't remember half the stuff they said once a few weeks goes by.

This.

#37 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3469 posts) -

I think people are getting a little too bitter about opinions, here. Jeff (and occasionally Brad or Ryan) gets sucked into many MMOs more than those games actually deserve based on the amount of time the small GB crew realistically has to cover games. They're clearly intrigued with aspects of the format, and I'm willing to bet that if a game comes along to satisfy that compulsion along with their desires for decent gameplay, they'll take notice.

I wasn't too happy with Jeff's impressions of his initial, hour-long dip into GW2 either, but assuming he takes even half as much time with the game as he did The Old Republic, I'm willing to take his feelings at face value. After all, at the end of the day, I know that I think it's an absolutely incredible experience. That's enough for me to enjoy it.

#38 Posted by yyninja (59 posts) -

I'm kind of amazed as well. When they were mentioning what other MMOs are coming out soon, the closest thing they could think of was the Mists of Panderia expansion and the Elder Scrolls MMO.

#39 Posted by WarlordPayne (706 posts) -

@yyninja said:

I'm kind of amazed as well. When they were mentioning what other MMOs are coming out soon, the closest thing they could think of was the Mists of Panderia expansion and the Elder Scrolls MMO.

They were talking about other MMOs coming out in the same Everquest/WoW type of model. Guild Wars 2 doesn't fit that, which I thought they even mentioned, because it doesn't charge a monthly fee.

#40 Posted by Evelgest (123 posts) -

I cringe when I hear any of them discuss GW2, hoping they at least give the game a real chance. An hour isn't enough. I've read quite a few people's experiences on Guru or Reddit and they stated they needed more time to fully appreciate the game. And once they did, they enjoyed it.

That said, if anyone from the GB crew is going to review or man the QL, I wish Brad would, especially after hearing Jeff's initial thoughts on the game.

#41 Edited by Selona83 (47 posts) -

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@Trilogy said:

I kind of cringe whenever they talk about MMO's in general.

This. Or cooperative games.

Yeah I agree.

I Understand that they are not as into these games and their mechanics. But I remembered when Jeff talked briefly about that Press beta weekend. "Yeah..its like a bit of public quest. Its like warhammer online.....bash my skill...meh logged off"

I got to admit. That severely pissed me off. Everyone have their opinion of course. I respect that. But you talk crap about a game when you played 1 hour of it and know NOTHING about it.

To me that would have been a more proper way to word it

I know I know! I shouldent take it to seriously what they say on the podcast. Since they just rant and so on.

But I cant help thinking that I would really like some wording like that. They/he(Jeff) are a gaming journalist, if I was that I at least try to but it a bit more informative and professional

Example: "Hey..I see this is different. And I can appreciate that they are trying to do something different here. But it is not for me."

Or: "I havent played enough of this to make a verdict"

Or...something like that. Lousy examples from me guys. But I hope you get my point:)

Sorry for the rant

#42 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3469 posts) -

@Selona83: That's a fair argument, but in my mind you can only expect so much coverage from the guys of preview/beta builds. They're not a massive operation. If release rolls around and no one gives it a reasonable amount of time, I'll be right there with you.

#43 Posted by LethalKi11ler (1426 posts) -

@Elitespy: Them talking about Kingdom Hearts on the podcast and all the misinformation made me want to book a flight to San Francisco but eh. Shit happens.

#44 Posted by Dourin (234 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@Selona83: That's a fair argument, but in my mind you can only expect so much coverage from the guys of preview/beta builds. They're not a massive operation. If release rolls around and no one gives it a reasonable amount of time, I'll be right there with you.

I agree, but I think what is saying is that if that's all the time he's going to spend with the game, maybe don't go on the podcast and start talking about it like it's a bad game. Maybe just don't talk about it at all unless/until he's willing to sit down and spend a proper amount of time with it. As Selona said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I feel like Jeff's insistence on MMO coverage the way he does it really hurts his journalistic integrity, at least in my eyes. It makes me question every time he says a game is bad, "is it actually bad, or does he just hate the genre?"

#45 Posted by Jack_Lafayette (3469 posts) -

@Dourin: And I just can't believe that Jeff hates the genre given how much extraneous time he ends up spending in these games even when it's apparent he thinks they have major flaws. If I were to give my thoughts on, for example, The Old Republic, they would be almost verbatim what he had to say about that game. That doesn't mean I hate MMOs, it just means that in order for me to enjoy one it has to be stand-out in ways that are important to me as a (ugh) "gamer." But then, I also don't have to play (some might say suffer through) virtually every single one of them that comes out and give long-form impressions afterward.

Again, I wasn't happy with the way he initially covered the game. All I can do is reason that there's no way he has the time to be as well-versed in Guild Wars 2 as I am given all he has to cover and hope that he gives it a fair shot come release - which, from what I know of his coverage, he generally tries to do.

#46 Posted by Dourin (234 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@Dourin: And I just can't believe that Jeff hates the genre given how much extraneous time he ends up spending in these games even when it's apparent he thinks they have major flaws. If I were to give my thoughts on, for example, The Old Republic, they would be almost verbatim what he had to say about that game. That doesn't mean I hate MMOs, it just means that in order for me to enjoy one it has to be stand-out in ways that are important to me as a (ugh) "gamer." But then, I also don't have to play (some might say suffer through) virtually every single one of them that comes out and give long-form impressions afterward.

Again, I wasn't happy with the way he initially covered the game. All I can do is reason that there's no way he has the time to be as well-versed in Guild Wars 2 as I am given all he has to cover and hope that he gives it a fair shot come release - which, from what I know of his coverage, he generally tries to do.

I wouldn't say he gives MMO's a fair shot with his coverage. I think he puts so many hours into them so that people think he does, but it's hard to give something a fair shot if you go in with a negative outlook from the start.

Then again, I'm beginning to see these guys as less of journalists, and more of video game-centric entertainers (with the possible exception of Patrick).

#47 Posted by jakob187 (21762 posts) -

I don't care about the opinions of the guys when it comes to MMOs. I go to Massively for that.

#48 Edited by Selona83 (47 posts) -

@Dourin: Well said

But yeah, as Dark Lord said as well, I realise that he had limited time with the game due to their line of work. to quote Dourin: "hurts his journalistic integrity". That is exactly what I felt it did. Not because am a fanbio of GW2 or anything like that.

I actually have a friend of mine that tried the BWE3. He loves WoW still. And he just said to me after that weekend: "This game is really different from WoW, and thats great that its just not another clone. I just dont think it is for me. But I can really appreciate what Arenanet is trying to do."

Something along those line he said.

that whole post you made there in reply to mine was just in general spot on! Thanks for putting words on what I failed on doing myself. Great post.

I was really worried that I would come across as bashing the giantbombcrew. That is ofc not the case guys as am sure you all understand:)

EDIT: I have to wonder thou. Do you guys think its just a "time thing" for gaming journalist? Or is the MMO space just so niche/have a bad rep

Reason why am asking is that I was listening to the Gamespot UK Podcast about 2 weeks ago. They were going over the upcoming releases for that last half of the year. And they dident even mentioned Guild Wars 2. MMO or not, its a huge game that will, probably, sell several million copies.

#49 Posted by RIDEBIRD (1233 posts) -

Yeah the bombbros are usually incredibly uninformed about MMOs in general.

#50 Posted by pandorasbox (303 posts) -

The thing about the GB staff, is that they're kind of misinformed on A LOT of games. This is..unfortunate, considering this is a gaming website.

I'm not saying that GB doesn't know anything about video games, but i feel that they need to just stop talking about games that they haven't really invested any sufficient amount of time into.

It's not like they needed to talk about GW2 anyways, i personally find the bombcast more amusing when they go off topic and start talking about crazy short-wave radio signals, hummingbird feeder masks, and other obscure shit.

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