One gripe about GW2 so far: Armor

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#1 Posted by Beaudacious (927 posts) -

I've been following all the press for GW2 for a while now, like most people on this board. I’ve been quite positive about everything that’s been revealed so far, and don’ have too many concerns. The one thing that has been worrying me is Armor, specifically the art design for Armor. I really didn’t find GW1 armor to be too exciting, and was regularly disappointed by my loot in terms of art design. Contrary to the fantastic world design, that was always appealing.

From what I’ve seen on graphical design forums, wiki’s, and what not GW2 seems to have really found more personality for their armor sets. One thing that’s still bugging me though is the standard class/profession fantasy tropes for armor sets.

I wish them abandoning the Trinity would transfar over to other aspects of the game like Armor class tropes. I’d like to play a Char Elementalist, but I don’t want to wear a pink dress for the entire game. Now the dye system takes care of one side of the issue, but the other has bugged me in almost every RPG. Now I'm not saying to remove dresses, but to have better variety in light armor sets

There’s also the Transmute system to consider in GW2, but I'm fairly sure I won’t, be able to transmute a piece of warrior or guardian armor into Elementalist armor. I wouldn't want my Elementalist to look exactly like a warrior anyways. I'm more so referring to having some heavy armor accents, like shoulders, or a helm, or even heavy metal boots.

I just want some kind of indication that my character is a battling hero. Why can’t a mage have metal shoulder pads, or a metal helm alongside a mix of traditional mage robes? Why do art designers continuously limit themselves to such narrow tropes? Why does a guardian/paladin have to only wear heavy armor? Can’t he have a mix with magical robes if he’d like.

I guess what I'm asking for is a little more variety in design combined with fantastical fantasy, or just pants for my Elementalist. The one game that has satisfied this desire is Skyrim, where you can mix and match heavy with light, and it even has skills that compliment such combinations.

There’s still a lot about the loot tables that we don’t know, so they might have already addressed this concern. But the track recorded of every RPG makes me doubt any such change. Just to specify I'm simply speaking in an aesthetic perspective. I can't imagine someone making a game with a working heavy armor caster, I'd settle for a grittier looking Mage.

Anyone else in the same boat? Any warrior player out there that actually wants to wear a breathable pink dress, opposed to stuffy plate armor? Can we finally get some wiggle room within these tropes within my lifetime?

#2 Edited by UssjTrunks (534 posts) -

For anyone that wants to see the armours (stolen from a post of Guru):

Norn male: http://i.imgur.com/QIYsf.jpg

Norn female: http://i.imgur.com/TwyGa.jpg

Charr male: http://i.imgur.com/LAdPw.jpg

Charr female: http://i.imgur.com/d9A6I.jpg

Human male: http://i.imgur.com/Xajl9.jpg

Human female: http://i.imgur.com/wQR44.jpg

I'm not too thrilled by them either. The human engineer looks pretty badass, but the rest are all kind of underwhelming. However this is where transmutation stones come in. If you like a lower level armour better than the elite, you can just transmute max stats over to the lower level armour.

As far as your concerns go, you're asking for a little too much. Casters have always been casters and warriors have always been warriors in fantasy games. Having a warrior roll around in robes wouldn't make much sense. The developers want to keep things at least somewhat realistic and immersive.

#3 Posted by Enigma777 (6069 posts) -

Dragon Age 2's champion mage armor is the best.

#4 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7069 posts) -

I actually like the armor I've seen so far a lot.

#5 Posted by yoshisaur (2700 posts) -

They look fine to me, at least for now. Cosmetics is something MMO's do properly the more time they have while they are operational. I mean hell, look at World of Warcraft. If anyone found the Dungeon Set, or Tier 1 set in Vanilla appealing...well...

We'll see more exaggerated art as time goes on. ANet wouldn't want their best art assets available at launch, kind of deterring people from being hyped about what new things to bring, now would they?

#6 Edited by Juvenfly (125 posts) -

Part of the reason this is done, especially in a game where PvP is a thing, is that it's important for players to be able to look at opponents and quickly identify, at least roughly, what they're up against. Maybe you can't tell immediately what kind of caster your opponent is, but you know to approach them a certain way versus say a heavy melee class, where upon seeing all that heavy plate you might want to focus on keeping your distance and mitigate damage that way, especially if you're squishy yourself. If anyone can wear anything, the only way you know what you're up against is by getting attacked. Now you could allow anyone to wear anything in PvE and restrict them in PvP, but that's a whole lot of extra work for not a lot of gain (and will also probably end up pissing people off, because really what doesn't?).

#7 Posted by Beaudacious (927 posts) -

@UssjTrunks: Those pictures make me think, that Anet believes all char players are going to be melee classes, and if you don't want to be a dress wearing caster you have to roll a nord.

#8 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

To some extent, I agree with both @Beaudacious and @UssjTrunks

To put things in perspective, here is a page with all of the Ele male and female armor sets from the original game;

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elementalist_armor

Now, I always play male characters and I've always HATED how Anet insists that caster class males should pretty much always be wearing either tights or skirts. Heck, I gravitated to the Monk class because at least they seemed to be clothed remotely decently - though in the end I bit the bullet and had one of everything at some point or another.

Now, I agree with Trunks in saying that they want each armour class to be distinctive, at least when it comes to the silhouette. This is something very important in PvP, which is a major focus for these games and has boiled down to a big bulky dude being a heavy, a skin tight dude being a light and middle being anywhere in between. Due to this alone, I think it's no coincidence that a bunch of people prefer ranger and engineer armour designs (medium armour).

I personally don't like it at all, and I think there has to be better ways of doing it. Beyond that, why cant my ele's armour be made of ice? or flame? Why can't a necro's armour be made of interlocking bones? At least for my pants argument, there is a rather brutally simple reason - they want foot armour to be different to leg armour and there's no way to make boots with pants work without adding to engine complexity. Monks in the original game were limited to sandals and shoes.

Sigh.

So yes, I wish there were warrior armours which had a sleekness to them and I wish there were ele armours made of fucking lightning - but it doesn't look like this design team is up to doing it.

#9 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -

I'm actually tremendously pleased with what I've seen so far, except for some of the awkwardly revealing female armors. Never been excited about the gear I've seen when watching footage of other MMOs because of how universally bland it is, and this all looks to be an improvement over GW1, whose armor sets I generally liked. Plus, as Juvenfly says, you need to have an easily-identifiable "silhouette" for different armor classes in PvP, otherwise you can't quickly know how to react to incoming foes.
 
Anyway, I think they do a fairly good job of subverting the tropes with things like the heavy fur caster armors and floor-length medium armor coats you can see in the images posted above.

#10 Posted by TheHT (11085 posts) -

@Beaudacious: after looking at those images, i can safely say no matter what class i choose i want to look like an engineer.

doesn't the armor stuff work by weight levels? certain classes can wear armor of one weight class and another a different weight class. that's fine in some cases, like a theif wouldn't wear heavy armor, but in other cases like the ones you mentioned, it should be totally fine.

i'm sure someone already asked arenanet and there's a specific answer out there for this.

#11 Posted by Jayzilla (2558 posts) -

@UssjTrunks said:

For anyone that wants to see the armours (stolen from a post of Guru):

Norn male: http://i.imgur.com/QIYsf.jpg

Norn female: http://i.imgur.com/TwyGa.jpg

Charr male: http://i.imgur.com/LAdPw.jpg

Charr female: http://i.imgur.com/d9A6I.jpg

Human male: http://i.imgur.com/Xajl9.jpg

Human female: http://i.imgur.com/wQR44.jpg

I'm not too thrilled by them either. The human engineer looks pretty badass, but the rest are all kind of underwhelming. However this is where transmutation stones come in. If you like a lower level armour better than the elite, you can just transmute max stats over to the lower level armour.

As far as your concerns go, you're asking for a little too much. Casters have always been casters and warriors have always been warriors in fantasy games. Having a warrior roll around in robes wouldn't make much sense. The developers want to keep things at least somewhat realistic and immersive.

Forget the armor. Look at the amazing variations of the faces on the Charr! That is amazing.

#12 Edited by Beaudacious (927 posts) -

@selfconfessedcynic: Something like this?

I think this is hunter gear though, not caster.

Also I just realized there is no fat character option. Dang I would have loved to have made a glutinous Necromancer sucking people’s souls, and life force. Developers really need to get out of all these trope habits, and allow for more customization. One thing I will say for SW: TOR is that being able to make a fat inquisitor was fantastic in beta. I eventually canceled my pre-order due to the rest of the game not being to my liking. I really think more games should allow for skinny, buff, fat body types it adds so much flavor to the world! Oh man if tavern drunks in Skyrim were all fat jolly drunk Vikings!

But I guess it’s a fair sacrifice for more focus on better gameplay, and diverse races instead of body types. I guess I just want way too much customization for my characters in games, but shouldn't we when you'll spend numerous hours playing said character?

#13 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

@Beaudacious: That is medium armour, yeah.

GW has some of my favourite armour designs in any game ever. I loved that there were plenty of fancy sets, but nothing ridiculously over the top, like you see in many other MMO's. The templar set was by far my favourite, it's simple without being bland. Most games seem to fail to hit the same mixture of fantasy and realism that GW nails.

GW2 seems to pushing it a bit further, but I like most of what I've seen so far. I do agree that it'd be nice to see casters in something a little heavier.. but I think they want to stick the heavy/medium/light range to diversify the classes.

#14 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

@Beaudacious: Yeah, as I said earlier, Medium armour seems to be where it's at for GW2.

I polled a bunch of my friends on which armours they liked most and it was almost universally engineer and ranger. One guy said warrior, but mainly because the pics Trunks provided had a warrior which was pretty much wearing Gladiator's armor from the original GW. A lot of us used that on all of our PvP warriors back in the day (originally it was the only bonus energy set).

@WinterSnowblind: I think I've said it before, but to me the elite Kurzick armour was where it was at (with helm hidden). I screen capped my dude below, his armour is dyed silver.

ED: Although I agree that they tended to do rather well in GW1 with keeping armours semi-realistic, some of the designs they came up with were atrocious.

ED2: ...though I think they nailed caster armour in a couple of cases in GW1. My favourite is probably this necromancer one (elite sunspear)

#15 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

@selfconfessedcynic: I forgot about the Assassin armour. Yeah, I was completely put off ever playing that class just because of how bad their armour designs were.

#16 Posted by Codeacious (960 posts) -

They've said that the high tier rewards are more cosmetic than functional; I'm betting top tier dungeon/PvP/etc armor will look a lot better.

#17 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic said:

@WinterSnowblind: I think I've said it before, but to me the elite Kurzick armour was where it was at (with helm hidden). I screen capped my dude below, his armour is dyed silver.


But without the helm, how are you going to look like Sauron?
#18 Posted by Subjugation (4719 posts) -

So I guess being content with armor design puts me in the minority?

#19 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind: Agreed.

@isnipeyoudie: Yup, we can only assume that's the case - I believe the crazy looking medium armour Beaudacious linked is an example of dungeon-earned armour. If that's the direction they're going with it, I'm optimistic.

@Dark_Lord_Spam: : )

@Subjugation: I don't know. If asked to criticise, I usually have something or another to say, but in the end we're all rather under-informed about this topic. For example, perhaps there are caster armours with a bit more leather and metal to them and we just haven't seen them yet. At the moment I'm sitting somewhere between resigned and optimistic, though the lack of people rising up in blind defence of GW2 here does suggest that most are taking a wait and see approach rather than being straight up content.

#20 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

Wow, I'm not at all picky when it comes to armor but none of the pictures so far interested me in the slightest.
They look super generic to me.
 
Which sucks, cosmetics are a huge sale for me on MMO's.

#21 Posted by Subjugation (4719 posts) -
@selfconfessedcynic: I probably should have done a better job clarifying what I meant. I am also of the "wait and see" crowd. I figure that I don't have a right to complain about something until I know for a fact that it is a problem.
#22 Posted by RobbieMac (534 posts) -
@Subjugation said:

So I guess being content with armor design puts me in the minority?

Nope, they are a step up from GW1.  Therefore I am happy.
#23 Posted by Bankrotas (46 posts) -

I actually like the first armor being not too flashy and looking like it serves a purpose more than the eye.

#24 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -
@RobbieMac said:
@Subjugation said:

So I guess being content with armor design puts me in the minority?

Nope, they are a step up from GW1.  Therefore I am happy.
Yeah, like I said earlier, the only problem I've has with the armors I've seen is that some of the female sets are revealing in an uncomfortable way. Other than that, I think they're fantastic.
#25 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

@Subjugation: That's fair enough. I just haven't seen anything to dissuade me from the same complaints I had from the first game, sadly.

#26 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1414 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@RobbieMac said:
@Subjugation said:

So I guess being content with armor design puts me in the minority?

Nope, they are a step up from GW1. Therefore I am happy.
Yeah, like I said earlier, the only problem I've has with the armors I've seen is that some of the female sets are revealing in an uncomfortable way. Other than that, I think they're fantastic.

It kind of reminds me of Korean MMOs. You know, how they have female characters wear almost nothing.

#27 Edited by Bankrotas (46 posts) -

Korean MMO's hmm, what do think NCsoft has made quite enough of?

#28 Edited by Vorbis (2750 posts) -

Kind of a let down after the amazing art in the rest of the game, would of preferred something more realistic but I guess MMOs have a reputation of metal bikinis and giant shoulderpads to keep.

#29 Edited by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -

Alright, guys, I didn't want to have to do this, but you've left me no choice.

And now the renders...

Phew. Anyway, the point is that if you can't find something you like here, you clearly have no soul.

#30 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

@Vorbis said:

Kind of a let down after the amazing art in the rest of the game, would of preferred something more realistic but I guess MMOs have a reputation of metal bikinis and giant shoulderpads to keep.

While some of the female designs are pretty silly, I at least like that there are a lot of sensible armour designs and tasteful dresses in here too. It's certainly no PSO2 :P

Plenty of the male armour shows an equal amount of skin too, so there's at least some equality.

#31 Posted by Codeacious (960 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind: Well, those are Paragons, which aren't in GW2.

I kind of hope the female armor doesn't have too many "chainmail bikinis" or similar things, as well. I'm a bit tired of them, honestly.

#32 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

@isnipeyoudie: That picture actually is from GW2, it's warrior/guardian Gladiator armour.

#33 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

Ok, I have to admit, I have always loved the way Sylvari themed armour looks - armour made of hardened leaves and bark is very much along the lines of what I was talking about before. I can definitely see myself making my WvW 1-80 dude a Sylvari and trying to get him some of that badass heavy armour.

ED: I'll also have to get a set of Glads (err - gladiator armour), just for old time's sake.

#34 Posted by Benny (1950 posts) -

I think having scantily clad females is justifiable for the mesmer class as seduction and misdirection etc. is mechanically what the class is about.

However, anyone fighting Eir Stegalkin could just stick a knife right into her chest noooo problem. They do have to do some pandering at the expense of realism, but if you care that much about some semblance of realism in your fantasy fiction go read game of thrones or something (Brienne of Tarth comes to mind.)

As far as I know, you can transmute any armor within your armor class, so while not being able to have armor that looks like plate mail with the stats of caster gear, I think an elementalist could wear gear with necromancer appearance and elementalist stats, a guardian could wear armor with the look of a warrior, thief wearing ranger armor, etc.

#35 Posted by S0ndor (2716 posts) -

There is a large amount of variety on display in this forum, so I wouldn't be too worried. Also, we need to be able to identify classes in pvp, armour is a huge part of that.

#36 Posted by Codeacious (960 posts) -
@WinterSnowblind ...really? Huh. Fooled me, I totally thought that was GW1 Paragon armor.

That would look really weird on a Charr...
#37 Posted by AlbinoJerk (84 posts) -

I know I'm going to be rolling around in the HoM armor most of the game anyways.  I love the Heavy and Light Heritage armor. :)

Online
#38 Posted by zeekthegeek (384 posts) -

I am pretty unstoked with the refusal to kill off the chainmail bikini look. You'd think in this day and age big game companies could get over acting like teenage boys in regards to designing outfits.

#39 Posted by StarvingGamer (8128 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam: Fuck man, spoiler tags if you're gonna post that much shit. I almost want to quote your post just to exacerbate the problem. "Dark Lord Spam" indeed.

OT, I am incredibly bemused by the fact that human female necros get to wear loli-goth outfits. Almost makes me want to get GW2... almost.

#40 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

@zeekthegeek: In fairness, at least here there's a lot of options for females. They get a lot of full plate mail, big leather coats and reasonable looking dresses as well and like I said before, the males have plenty of armour that's just as revealing, so there's some equality and choice.

@StarvingGamer: The armour is shared between all light armour classes. Some is obviously designed with a certain profession in mind, but you can have your elementalist or mesmer wear the gothic dresses too, or have your necromancer in big colourful mage robes.

#41 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -

@StarvingGamer: Oh, man. Whoops. Thanks for the notice. The original plan was to leave it up for an hour to make a point before censoring it AND AS YOU CAN TELL I STUCK PRETTY WELL TO THE PLAN.

#42 Posted by Orbitz89 (229 posts) -

I think they're pretty good. I guess i'm one of the few.. I like that they don't look too ridiculous or overly crazy in their design.

#43 Posted by NayofTheEther (14 posts) -

@Subjugation said:

So I guess being content with armor design puts me in the minority?

Then count me minority, I really don't like over-the-top outrageously flashy armors, in all honestly to me it screams "noob". My power as a player lies not in the fancy of my armor but what I throw in your face in a fight. I think the original GW did an awesome job (mostly) of making acceptably appropriate armors for the classes while still adding enough flair to make them interesting. I'm not saying I'm content with those default beta armors we keep getting thus far, but I really have no use for my armor spouting flame and lightning, shaking the ground I walk on and an escort of otherworldy beasts following me around proclaiming my leet-ness lmao. They came through with the GW1 armors, they'll do it again, there's nothing but time to release new armor, new content, new Awesomeness. be patient and enjoy this amazing game for what it is. Heck, the designs we've found so far already surpass my expectations. Can only imagine what they have in store down the road.

#44 Posted by NayofTheEther (14 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Wow, I'm not at all picky when it comes to armor but none of the pictures so far interested me in the slightest. They look super generic to me. Which sucks, cosmetics are a huge sale for me on MMO's.

You do realize they have aggregation capabilites in GW2 right? (for those unfamiliar with that term, you can take the skin of one armor and replace it with the skin of another armor, while keeping the original defenses, stats, ect of your orignial armor.) example: I have a Elite Heavy Armor of Buttstomping but it looks silly, however i do like the Elite Medium Armor of Whoopazz, I use the aggregate function, and wa-la I still have my Buttstomp armor but now i look like the sleek Whoopazz armor. Problem solved, you can imagine the combination possibilities from that.

#45 Posted by shinboy630 (1134 posts) -

I personally am fine with the armors. IMO, the crazier you make the armor the harder is it to make it look good when dyed, or at least it limits the amount of it you can dye. With the dye system being as extensive as it is, I can see where they are coming from.

#46 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3228 posts) -
@NayofTheEther said:

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Wow, I'm not at all picky when it comes to armor but none of the pictures so far interested me in the slightest. They look super generic to me. Which sucks, cosmetics are a huge sale for me on MMO's.

You do realize they have aggregation capabilites in GW2 right? (for those unfamiliar with that term, you can take the skin of one armor and replace it with the skin of another armor, while keeping the original defenses, stats, ect of your orignial armor.) example: I have a Elite Heavy Armor of Buttstomping but it looks silly, however i do like the Elite Medium Armor of Whoopazz, I use the aggregate function, and wa-la I still have my Buttstomp armor but now i look like the sleek Whoopazz armor. Problem solved, you can imagine the combination possibilities from that.

Not exactly. You can transmute the appearance and stats of any two items of the same category, so using the stats of a heavy armor piece and the appearance of a medium armor piece wouldn't work.
#47 Posted by NayofTheEther (14 posts) -

@Dark_Lord_Spam: It still allows for appearance customization, which frees up a lot of room for creativity and thus removing the "generic" aspect Talicia was talking about. We haven't even seen close to all the armors they will offer, and I'm sure they'll add new designs in future updates as well. I just hope some people commenting on the armor aren't referring to the generic beta armors lol. There will be a larger diversity upon release.

#48 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2496 posts) -

Oh man, this discussion is old.

I think after a lot of us have had more of a chance to play the recent betas, the way the game plays has overshadowed things like worries about armour.

As an update to my opinion from earlier in this thread: I still think that male light armour looks like complete trash in GW2 (except anything necromancer-themed to be specific).

Medium armours still look the coolest, and heavy armours are either silly looking AND covered in spikes or just silly looking.

However, with all of the above I'm sure I'll find something I like for each of my characters (I'm actually looking to roll one of each armour class now that I think of it - warrior, ranger and ele).

Also, @NayofTheEther: Welcome to the forums mate, your posts so far have been quite good.

#49 Posted by Turkalurch (198 posts) -

Sorry if someone posted this already. I didn't read past the 5th reply.

But aren't there costumes slots that we can utilize to change the appearance of our character with costume items? I'm trying to pull the hero window from the deep recesses of my brain but it's just a blur. Anyone remember?

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