Yes, with a controller.

Stay with me here.

I have been perfecting my profile since beta weekend 2 and am excited to say that it works flawlessly. You can now play Guild Wars 2 as a third person action game, and honestly, it feels like it was designed to be played this way.

Yes, you can easily cast ground targeted spells. Yes, all of the controls fit on the controller. Yes, the ease of movement, casting, and attacking trumps anything you can do with a keyboard and mouse. Yes, it feels a bit like cheating.

As a note, this profile was created to replace the keyboard and mouse for combat only. Let's not be naive, the keyboard and mouse is still the way to go for menu navigation, inventory, etc, but for minute to minute gameplay you will never need to touch the keyboard and mouse.

See all my notes and grab my profile right here:

http://pinnaclegamep...66670#post66670

Enjoy!

@Stinkfinger75 said:

Yes, the ease of movement, casting, and attacking trumps anything you can do with a keyboard and mouse.

Is there true analog movement? If there isn't, and you are just using the stick for forward, back, left, and right, that defeats the whole purpose of using a stick over WASD anyway. I'm sorry but the only way a controller would work is if Anet makes it officially supported, because otherwise it would just be too clunky.

@shinboy630 said:

Is there true analog movement? If there isn't, and you are just using the stick for forward, back, left, and right, that defeats the whole purpose of using a stick over WASD anyway.

No analog movement, but then again you don't get analog movement from a keyboard either. I do feel that moving your character using the controller is far simpler and offers better mobility than a keyboard just because it is all handled on one stick as opposed to four keys, plus jump, plus evade (if you turned off "double tap to evade").

This would be really useful for camera movement and such sometimes, especially during hectic PvP battles or jumping puzzles, but having to put down the controller when you want to type stuff to other people is probably going to be a problem. So i'm not really sure about this.

@Stinkfinger75: My point was that the only advantage that a controller has over M/KB in this game is analog movement, and since that is not working (and won't until Anet adds support, if they do at all), profiles like this are pretty pointless. Next.

@Shirogane said:

...but having to put down the controller when you want to type stuff to other people is probably going to be a problem. So i'm not really sure about this.

True, it was never meant to replace the keyboard and mouse completely, some things are still better suited for kb/m, inventory management for example. But for minute to minute game play you can use the controller and nothing else.

@shinboy630 said:

...the only advantage that a controller has over M/KB in this game is analog movement...

It has many advantages, but the ease of movement alone makes it worthwhile. Go try it, you'll be surprised.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

@shinboy630 said:

...the only advantage that a controller has over M/KB in this game is analog movement...

It has many advantages, but the ease of movement alone makes it worthwhile. Go try it, you'll be surprised.

See I don't see how movement is easier. I pretty much live with the right mouse button held, so I can move it any direction at any time while constantly moving the camera. I feel like trying to do that while also dodging and using skills would be a total nightmare, especially in situations that require more advanced play, like dungeons and PvP.

@shinboy630 said

See I don't see how movement is easier. I pretty much live with the right mouse button held, so I can move it any direction at any time while constantly moving the camera. I feel like trying to do that while also dodging and using skills would be a total nightmare, especially in situations that require more advanced play, like dungeons and PvP.

Allow me to explain. At best with a kb/m you are using only one key to move. But chances are that's not during combat, during combat you are doing many things at once, moving in probably more than one direction (back and to the left perhaps), using weapon, class, and profession abilities, targeting, and dodging. Lets illustrate a scenario (based on the default key mappings), you are in a fight, moving away and to the left and want to dodge, there's three fingers needed (maybe one less if double tapping dodging is enabled) on your keyboard for movement plus your mouse hand manipulating the camera, then you want to target another enemy, that's a finger stretch to the T key, then you want to fire off weapon skill 1, that means probably moving one of your movement fingers over to the 1 key, by this point you've taken a beating and want to heal, then you have to stretch a finger over to the 6 key. I don't think that's an unrealistic situation, requires a lot of finger gymnastics, and all happen in very quick succession. That means five (maybe six) very fast finger movements using six keys in a very very short time frame, plus you are still using your right hand to control your camera. To me that seems like there is a lot of room for error in a pretty standard situation. On a controller using my profile I can do all that on two sticks and two buttons, all conveniently within very close proximity of one another on a device designed to play games with. To me that seems like far less room for error and thereby results in better game playing. Over on the Pinnacle site there are some notes about how I came up with my "controller theory" for how the buttons are mapped, once you grasp the simple concept I think playing with a controller is a completely viable option for GW2.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

@shinboy630 said

See I don't see how movement is easier. I pretty much live with the right mouse button held, so I can move it any direction at any time while constantly moving the camera. I feel like trying to do that while also dodging and using skills would be a total nightmare, especially in situations that require more advanced play, like dungeons and PvP.

Allow me to explain. At best with a kb/m you are using only one key to move. But chances are that's not during combat, during combat you are doing many things at once, moving in probably more than one direction (back and to the left perhaps), using weapon, class, and profession abilities, targeting, and dodging. Lets illustrate a scenario (based on the default key mappings), you are in a fight, moving away and to the left and want to dodge, there's three fingers needed (maybe one less if double tapping dodging is enabled) on your keyboard for movement plus your mouse hand manipulating the camera, then you want to target another enemy, that's a finger stretch to the T key, then you want to fire off weapon skill 1, that means probably moving one of your movement fingers over to the 1 key, by this point you've taken a beating and want to heal, then you have to stretch a finger over to the 6 key. I don't think that's an unrealistic situation, requires a lot of finger gymnastics, and all happen in very quick succession. That means five (maybe six) very fast finger movements using six keys in a very very short time frame, plus you are still using your right hand to control your camera. To me that seems like there is a lot of room for error in a pretty standard situation. On a controller using my profile I can do all that on two sticks and two buttons, all conveniently within very close proximity of one another on a device designed to play games with. To me that seems like far less room for error and thereby results in better game playing. Over on the Pinnacle site there are some notes about how I came up with my "controller theory" for how the buttons are mapped, once you grasp the simple concept I think playing with a controller is a completely viable option for GW2.

All of this can be done quite easily (I would actually argue more easily) with the use of mouse buttons (for reference, I use a razer naga, also a device "designed to play games with"), while still having much better control over the camera. All of the mouse buttons are very, very close to each other, more so than console buttons, and are conveniently located where the thumb naturally rests on the mouse. To me this seems like this leaves even less room for error than a controller. You could argue that not everyone has a gaming mouse but then again not everyone has a 360 pad and the knowhow to get it working with these types of profiles. I also took a look at that profile. Having dodge and heal on the same button? No way anybody would ever mess that up leading to their death. Also, using the only one key to move is just plain wrong. If you are doing that "at best" you are just bad at the game.

To me this whole thing just seems like you trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, but who knows, maybe you do know more about controlling GW2 than the company that spent 5 years making it and didn't feel controller support was worth adding.

Or...you know...buy one of these and have the best of both worlds. Single finger (thumb) movement with the compact keyboard keybinds and still have full mouse functionality. Added bonus of it not being nearly as clunky to move to keyboard to type, as well.

I'm not as violently offended and opposed to this as some but I still don't understand how the hell ground targeting works. How do I quickly and accurately select where I want to cast my skills whilst still maintaining mobility?

Until till you need to quickly pick out a target.

Trying it, it's pretty cool, but I get a weird issue where I can't turn my camera right anymore. Also, for some reason, when I hold down the left trigger, it doesn't go to the center anymore like it's supposed to. I adjusted for my resolution, and it seemed ok at first, but somehow it stopped working correctly.

Besides that, everything works awesome, and it feels really intuitive. Good job.

Edit: Solved it. I had to just restart Pinnacle to get it to work.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

You can now play Guild Wars 2 as a third person action game, and honestly, it feels like it was designed to be played this way.

I passionately disagree.

But if some folks really want to play with a controller, this is great. (I cannot image playing organized PVP with this)

Only MMO where I throught it acceptable to use a controller was FFXI. And that was only becuase I was forced into it.

I read that Arenanet is not opposed to the idea of porting Guild Wars 2 to consoles. Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to do, considering the number of hotkey spells on your bar compared to most MMOs.

@shinboy630 said:

@Stinkfinger75 said:

@shinboy630 said

See I don't see how movement is easier. I pretty much live with the right mouse button held, so I can move it any direction at any time while constantly moving the camera. I feel like trying to do that while also dodging and using skills would be a total nightmare, especially in situations that require more advanced play, like dungeons and PvP.

Allow me to explain. At best with a kb/m you are using only one key to move. But chances are that's not during combat, during combat you are doing many things at once, moving in probably more than one direction (back and to the left perhaps), using weapon, class, and profession abilities, targeting, and dodging. Lets illustrate a scenario (based on the default key mappings), you are in a fight, moving away and to the left and want to dodge, there's three fingers needed (maybe one less if double tapping dodging is enabled) on your keyboard for movement plus your mouse hand manipulating the camera, then you want to target another enemy, that's a finger stretch to the T key, then you want to fire off weapon skill 1, that means probably moving one of your movement fingers over to the 1 key, by this point you've taken a beating and want to heal, then you have to stretch a finger over to the 6 key. I don't think that's an unrealistic situation, requires a lot of finger gymnastics, and all happen in very quick succession. That means five (maybe six) very fast finger movements using six keys in a very very short time frame, plus you are still using your right hand to control your camera. To me that seems like there is a lot of room for error in a pretty standard situation. On a controller using my profile I can do all that on two sticks and two buttons, all conveniently within very close proximity of one another on a device designed to play games with. To me that seems like far less room for error and thereby results in better game playing. Over on the Pinnacle site there are some notes about how I came up with my "controller theory" for how the buttons are mapped, once you grasp the simple concept I think playing with a controller is a completely viable option for GW2.

All of this can be done quite easily (I would actually argue more easily) with the use of mouse buttons (for reference, I use a razer naga, also a device "designed to play games with"), while still having much better control over the camera. All of the mouse buttons are very, very close to each other, more so than console buttons, and are conveniently located where the thumb naturally rests on the mouse. To me this seems like this leaves even less room for error than a controller. You could argue that not everyone has a gaming mouse but then again not everyone has a 360 pad and the knowhow to get it working with these types of profiles. I also took a look at that profile. Having dodge and heal on the same button? No way anybody would ever mess that up leading to their death. Also, using the only one key to move is just plain wrong. If you are doing that "at best" you are just bad at the game.

To me this whole thing just seems like you trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, but who knows, maybe you do know more about controlling GW2 than the company that spent 5 years making it and didn't feel controller support was worth adding.

Seems like subjective opinion to me.

As in, one person likes and can use KB/M better, another likes and can use a controller better. Just because you can use one well does not mean you can use another well.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

Allow me to explain. At best with a kb/m you are using only one key to move. But chances are that's not during combat, during combat you are doing many things at once, moving in probably more than one direction (back and to the left perhaps), using weapon, class, and profession abilities, targeting, and dodging. Lets illustrate a scenario (based on the default key mappings), you are in a fight, moving away and to the left and want to dodge, there's three fingers needed (maybe one less if double tapping dodging is enabled) on your keyboard for movement plus your mouse hand manipulating the camera, then you want to target another enemy, that's a finger stretch to the T key, then you want to fire off weapon skill 1, that means probably moving one of your movement fingers over to the 1 key, by this point you've taken a beating and want to heal, then you have to stretch a finger over to the 6 key. I don't think that's an unrealistic situation, requires a lot of finger gymnastics, and all happen in very quick succession. That means five (maybe six) very fast finger movements using six keys in a very very short time frame, plus you are still using your right hand to control your camera. To me that seems like there is a lot of room for error in a pretty standard situation. On a controller using my profile I can do all that on two sticks and two buttons, all conveniently within very close proximity of one another on a device designed to play games with. To me that seems like far less room for error and thereby results in better game playing. Over on the Pinnacle site there are some notes about how I came up with my "controller theory" for how the buttons are mapped, once you grasp the simple concept I think playing with a controller is a completely viable option for GW2.

There's one thing you've taken for granted - the fact that your comparison uses default keybinds. Just as you have painstakingly crafted a profile analagous to the keyboard bindings, a custom keybind setting plays a lot better than the default; Taugrim actually has a pretty good setup for Guild Wars 2. Yes, your controller setup is viable with the caveat that it only works for combat. However, I don't think it 'trumps anything you can do with a keyboard and mouse' when you haven't explored the idea that the keyboard can be further optimised.

Still, great job at porting the controls!

Hm, interesting concept, I have found it sometimes difficult to play and hitting the right keys at the right moment. I might just need some practice, but I'll try this anyway when I get the chance to play again.

Controller rage!

@Stinkfinger75 said:

Yes, with a controller.

Stay with me here.

I have been perfecting my profile since beta weekend 2 and am excited to say that it works flawlessly. You can now play Guild Wars 2 as a third person action game, and honestly, it feels like it was designed to be played this way.

Yes, you can easily cast ground targeted spells. Yes, all of the controls fit on the controller. Yes, the ease of movement, casting, and attacking trumps anything you can do with a keyboard and mouse. Yes, it feels a bit like cheating.

As a note, this profile was created to replace the keyboard and mouse for combat only. Let's not be naive, the keyboard and mouse is still the way to go for menu navigation, inventory, etc, but for minute to minute gameplay you will never need to touch the keyboard and mouse.

See all my notes and grab my profile right here:

http://pinnaclegamep...66670#post66670

Enjoy!

I've only used Xpadder. How does this work? Same idea I assume? So in that thread is the control scheme you used and I can just download that and use it or something? I apologize for the ignorance.

I play games on PC so I don't have to use a controller. Why would I want to handicap myself by doing this?

@Stinkfinger75 said:

Yes, the ease of movement, casting, and attacking trumps anything you can do with a keyboard and mouse.

Hey now. As someone who has played a lot of MMOs that use the WASD+QE+Mouse method of movement, I doubt this. I already feel as in-control of my character as I possibly could.

Two things:

1. This completely disconnects you from typing while playing--actively discouraging you from engaging with the community, which is arguably one of the biggest things that this game tries to force you to do. Yes you can still reach over and type shit, but then you're juggling two control methods which almost always leaves one of them set aside and ignored.
2. This method of play will literally fall apart as you reach higher levels. You will need to be able to circle stafe while casting, do quick 180s, and make some precise-ass AoE targets at later levels just to survive. At the end of the day, being able to move, turn, and cast abilities all at once in complete, perfect unity is what makes or breaks end-game play--and I'm just not seeing it working with this layout.

@shinboy630 said:

@Stinkfinger75: My point was that the only advantage that a controller has over M/KB in this game is analog movement, and since that is not working (and won't until Anet adds support, if they do at all), profiles like this are pretty pointless. Next.

...except they aren't.

The fact that this game can be played on a controller means that there is always a possibility that Guild Wars 2 could find its way onto console at some point, which would admittedly be pretty cool. It could open a lot of people to an experience they don't know because they are intimidated by KB/M controls. Sure, an MMO on console isn't brand new, but something to the scale of what Guild Wars 2 is doing would be pretty excellent.

@SamStrife said:

How do I quickly and accurately select where I want to cast my skills whilst still maintaining mobility?

Here's how it works.

The right stick is used for camera control, just like a third person game, but when you pull the left trigger it frees the mouse cursor. So for ground casting you press which ever button on the controller corresponds to a ground targeted spell, the spell target appears on the ground, pull and hold the left trigger, use the right stick to aim it, and press the key again to cast it. Pretty quick, simple and intuitive. If you have quick casting enabled it's easier yet. Additionally, when you pull the left trigger, or release the right stick, the profile is set up to warp the mouse cursor to directly in front of your character so there is no "cursor hunt" and at the angle I like to keep the camera, the area where the cursor warps to is usually right in the sweet spot for where I would want the spell cast.

@kishinfoulux said:

I've only used Xpadder. How does this work? Same idea I assume? So in that thread is the control scheme you used and I can just download that and use it or something? I apologize for the ignorance.

The file in the thread is the just the profile (the keybinds, macros, etc...) that you import into Pinnacle Game Profiler. Google it. I have used Xpadder also, but Pinnacle is much much more robust and allows for things that Xpadder does not. It comes with a 30 day trial and I feel is an excellent purchase.

bookmarked!

@Breadfan said:

Controller rage!

The most correct comment in this thread. That's all i'm hearing...

One day, after playing GW2 for a few hours, hunched over my desk, I was beginning to feel fatigued. I thought about it and figured that the controls could totally, mostly, fit on a controller and so I loaded up xpadder and went to work. Turns out that when you want to just kick back and do some exploring or hearts, the 360 pad is totally a viable option. With left/right mouse buttons bound to left/right triggers you can even do light menu work without sitting up. It's really nice. Kb/m is still the only way to play if you are doing anything that requires skill and reflexes, but just casually enjoying the game is something I like to do just as much as PvP and dungeons. I guess I can see why people can get odefensive over their preferred control scheme but the hostility and dismissiveness seems out of place here. Just play with what is comfortable to you for the given application.

I've tried similar and if you don't care about chatting or inventory management too much, this basically allows you to drop dead on the couch and play it there instead of hunched over in a chair with a mouse and keyboard. The PvE is forgiving enough to allow for success and since parties are generally useless in this game you don't really need to chat like ever.

TERA has official 360 controller support and a UI exclusively for the 360 controller and I don't see why GW2 shouldn't have this either with the small number of skills available.

@geirr said:

instead of hunched over in a chair with a mouse and keyboard.

Sounds like you guys need better chairs, I am not hunched over when at my desk.

@Sooty said:

@geirr said:

instead of hunched over in a chair with a mouse and keyboard.

Sounds like you guys need better chairs, I am not hunched over when at my desk.

You guys? How'd you know we're two people? D:<

Our chairs are fine but when we play a PC game we like and something exciting happens that requires our "maximum efficiency" we tend to lean forwards just a little since it somehow gives the illusion of more control and shorter response times (at least for us); something GW2 normally doesn't need while questing.

edit; added a dumb link

When I first started the game I wanted to use a controler but now (about 40hrs in) im pretty used to M&K so ill probably stick with it.

Thanks for posting this. I really like how Skyrim worked with the controller. I too wonder about ground targeting and turning on/off cursor control, as I am in love with the option 'cast at cursor location', which can't be done fast and accurately with a controller. But I like the way you set this up and might give it a shot one day.

Personally using a G13 gaming keypad and hardly ever touch my mouse in PvE, and a G700 mouse with dodge/weapon switch on the two buttons right above where my thumb rests.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

@SamStrife said:

How do I quickly and accurately select where I want to cast my skills whilst still maintaining mobility?

Here's how it works.

The right stick is used for camera control, just like a third person game, but when you pull the left trigger it frees the mouse cursor. So for ground casting you press which ever button on the controller corresponds to a ground targeted spell, the spell target appears on the ground, pull and hold the left trigger, use the right stick to aim it, and press the key again to cast it. Pretty quick, simple and intuitive. If you have quick casting enabled it's easier yet. Additionally, when you pull the left trigger, or release the right stick, the profile is set up to warp the mouse cursor to directly in front of your character so there is no "cursor hunt" and at the angle I like to keep the camera, the area where the cursor warps to is usually right in the sweet spot for where I would want the spell cast.

Nice touch! I use Xpadder also (cuz its free) but will look into Pinnacle. The only other issue I;ve had in the past is the speed of mouse cursor movement - trying to find a compromise betweeen speed and accuracy while moving the curser with the dpad or joistick can be a futhermucker.

Now that Valve has their Steam Big Picture UI out, this seems like a much better idea. I'll probably try it out over the weekend once I get a gaming rig and GW2 hooked up to my home theater.

I approve of this.

@oldschool2112 said:

Nice touch! I use Xpadder also (cuz its free) but will look into Pinnacle. The only other issue I;ve had in the past is the speed of mouse cursor movement - trying to find a compromise betweeen speed and accuracy while moving the curser with the dpad or joistick can be a futhermucker.

If you want, say, a faster camera rotation speed, but want the cursor to move a bit slower when ground targeting Pinnacle has a "sniper assist" function which will dial back mouse sensitivity when a button is pressed. In this case it could be assigned to the left trigger so that ground targeting could be more manageable.

@Stinkfinger75: Played last nite for a few hrs with your setup and am convinced its the answer to finger/wrist fatigue with keyboard/mouse. Ground targetting is really the only hitch as it just so much faster being able to cast right at your mouse curser, vs left trigger/move curser/fire weapskill. But all in all its my new way of playing GW2 so thank you! Have a few tech questions but going to take that to your thread on the Pinnacle forums.

I used it for a bit when I first started playing. It works really well.

It's hard to get used to for a while, but it becomes easy to switch back and forth.

@oldschool2112 said:

Ground targetting is really the only hitch as it just so much faster being able to cast right at your mouse curser, vs left trigger/move curser/fire weapskill.

You can go into GW2's options and enable quick casting which will cast a spell/skill at the cursor location with a single button press. I like the idea of it, but you need to know the exact ranges of your skills (which you just might) for this to work well. What Anet needs to implement is some sort of feedback on the skill bar's numbers. For example, if quick casting is turned on then the numbers under the skills should light up green if a skill is castable at the cursor's location, otherwise the number should be greyed out.

@Stinkfinger75 said:

@oldschool2112 said:

Ground targetting is really the only hitch as it just so much faster being able to cast right at your mouse curser, vs left trigger/move curser/fire weapskill.

You can go into GW2's options and enable quick casting which will cast a spell/skill at the cursor location with a single button press. I like the idea of it, but you need to know the exact ranges of your skills (which you just might) for this to work well. What Anet needs to implement is some sort of feedback on the skill bar's numbers. For example, if quick casting is turned on then the numbers under the skills should light up green if a skill is castable at the cursor's location, otherwise the number should be greyed out.

I have quickcasting enabled 24/7. Like i said its the only hitch to going controller full time as, although setting up the cursor to snap right in front of your avatar is great, in WvW anticipating targets is too fluid to go thru the 3 step process that using the controller entails (left trigger, move cursor to target area, push ability button - whereas left hand on keyboard, right hand on mouse its all done at the same time). Still love the ability to use the controller, but this issue is pretty much a pertinant negative to using the controller in WvW for me right now. Still great work and glad you introduced me to Pinnacle - might even use it to program my G13 in the future as the Logitech software is lacking in comparison.

lol on a side note, you should put "run Pinnacle as admin" in your signature, as the controller wont work in any game unless done so. Maybe thats just a noob issue but i fuxored around a bunch trying to figure out why the controller worked in Pinnacle but not in GW2 until I found a thread on the Pinnacle forums where someone complained of the same thing. Found a couple things that should be set in GW2 preferences if using your Pinnacle config - turn off both double-tap to dodge and target forwarding, as you will dodge when you dont mean to and draw aggro from mobs you didnt intent to pull if you don't.

This mod will help those of you who are using a gamepad:

Xpadder / Game Pads: Combat Mode is the perfect solution for people who use gamepads. Simply select a button to be your Combat Mode "Toggle" key and away you go.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10amev/combat_mode_10_released_arenanet_repond/