Was anyone else annoyed at how Jeff was playing in the QL?

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#51 Posted by Jeff (3418 posts) -

@Nihilius said:

I mean he was static whilst attacking mobs not even bothering to try to dodge.

/rant

That sounds like a thing I would have done if the game bothered to convey ANY of its meaningful mechanics to players instead of just feeling like a cavalcade of short, poorly written tooltips!

Staff
#52 Posted by The_Nubster (2047 posts) -

The people who watch Quick Looks are the kind of people who have the mental ability to separate player error from poor design. A Quick Look won't turn people off from a game unless the game itself doesn't appeal. For example, I was interested in Lollipop Chainsaw, so I watched the Quick Look. By the end of it I wasn't interested any more, but not because Ryan did poorly in the fighting; I could tell that was on him and not the game. It was because the style of humour didn't didn't me in the way I wanted it to.

Jeff showed the dodge move. It wouldn't have made a difference in the fights. No one cares that Jeff is bad at the combat. Chill your shit and just enjoy the game.

#53 Posted by Nihilius (168 posts) -

@Jeff: That I actually agree on, they need to have more tutorials in the game. Although having played the Beta I thought you would have known how to dodge, I was mistaken.

#54 Posted by jimmyfenix (3829 posts) -

you should tell @Nihilius to STUFF IT!!

#55 Posted by Nihilius (168 posts) -

@jimmyfenix: He basically already did. This is a proud moment.

#56 Posted by Iodine (542 posts) -

@I_Stay_Puft said:

That's why they call these quick looks and not full looks.

But he was playing it wrong.

Or something to that effect.

Jeff is not known as some hardcore MMO player, so people should not expect him to know and/or use all the systems, or even care enough to. Thats part of the glories of the internet, you can either edit the GW2 wiki with guides and such, or use websites besides giant bomb.

Plus if some one is making their entire decision to buy this massive time hunk of a game off of a QL played by some one who has said only has love for a very select (aka PSO/PSO2 and even that one is up in the air) amount of MMO's, do you really want to run into that person in the game?

#57 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3157 posts) -

@Jeff said:

@Nihilius said:

I mean he was static whilst attacking mobs not even bothering to try to dodge.

/rant

That sounds like a thing I would have done if the game bothered to convey ANY of its meaningful mechanics to players instead of just feeling like a cavalcade of short, poorly written tooltips!

Salient point, Dr. Gerstmann. They do need better, more informative tutorials in this game.

#58 Posted by Maystack (902 posts) -

To be honest, I don't think I've ever dodged effectively from what I've played except in WvW. In PvE, I've managed to get by just fine by strafing.

#59 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

Meh. Jeff doesn't like it. Who cares? He's bad at showing a genre of game he hates. So what? Give me a football game, and I'll give you an equally shitty quicklook, regardless of whether it's a quality game or not, because I don't give a rats ass about football, and Jeff doesn't care about most MMOs. If Jeff feels this way about Guild Wars, just imagine how I feel about football quicklooks.

GiantBomb isn't about quality videos or giving games a fair shake, it's about personal opinions. I respect Jeff, but his opinion is not the end-all be-all for me. And it shouldn't be for you either.

#60 Posted by Iodine (542 posts) -

And I wrote all that before Jeff posted

Now I feel all sad.

#61 Posted by Brodehouse (9588 posts) -

Stuffed Chicken Marsala.

#62 Posted by AndrewB (7496 posts) -

I'm enraged by everything everyone does.

#63 Edited by Nihilius (168 posts) -

@Iodine: Don't worry, I feel the same way. As I think about it now it is pretty trivial. I was being a fannybaw(Dickhead for non-Scottish).

#64 Posted by jimmyfenix (3829 posts) -

nope a donner will do!

#65 Edited by deox (210 posts) -

To be fair, I didn't even know you could dodge until I got to level 10 or so. The game doesn't make the mechanic very clear or teach you how to utilize it efficiently. I honestly think most of the concerns Jeff brought up in the quick look are valid. It's got some refreshing combat mechanics but come on guys, lets be honest. This is just another MMO with a fresh coat of paint. I'm still enjoying it though, and really that's all that should matter. I do not understand why so many people take it as a personal attack whenever someone criticises this game.

#66 Posted by stinky (1544 posts) -

yeah WTF, its like he was trying to do a quick look at the game.

what about end game content too? man, makes me mad that he is not showing off stuff i already know.

#67 Posted by SuddenlyBees (14 posts) -

I don't watch the Quick Looks for the games anyways. I watch them for the jokes.

#68 Posted by Ascardon (67 posts) -

People always like to finds errors in quick looks,so what if everything was like a A4 paper in the world,how would you really feel?.Just saying.

PS! i loved the quick look,it showed what guild wars 2 is about.Simple as that.

#69 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

I'm disappointed they put so little effort into the coverage of the game. As someone who dislikes most MMO's, but loved GW1, I found a lot to really like about GW2 as well.

I don't see the need to get so bent out of shape over it though, there's plenty of other websites offering much better coverage (and in fairness, the ingame tutorials are pretty bad). Eurogamers write ups have been excellent at covering the more indepth stuff, without sugar coating any of the less appealing aspects, which is what I was hoping Jeff would do for the game.

#70 Posted by Turambar (6675 posts) -

@Jeff said:

@Nihilius said:

I mean he was static whilst attacking mobs not even bothering to try to dodge.

/rant

That sounds like a thing I would have done if the game bothered to convey ANY of its meaningful mechanics to players instead of just feeling like a cavalcade of short, poorly written tooltips!

I feel like the whole system of giving you individual storage slots for crafting material in a completely separate bank, and letting you send mats straight there from your inventory were two of the smartest things an MMO has done in a whole (the crafting system in general is neat), but like a lot of stuff, GW2 doesn't convey that at all, not even with tool tips.

#72 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2485 posts) -

@adoggz said:

Wait, you can dodge?
#73 Posted by huntad (1930 posts) -

@Nickieroonie said:

edit: I suppose the bottom line is that you shouldn't necessarily expect a QL to be a good, informed look at a game. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't.

Yeah, this statement pretty much nails it. I only watch them for the funny moments now. If I want real coverage of a game, I'll usually check 1-2 more sites to see what the game's really like. It sucks that I don't really use this site for any of that anymore, but that's just the way things are. I end up finding a lot of really awesome things about a game that I didn't know were in it, because it wasn't shown here. Oh well.

#74 Posted by Bocam (3672 posts) -

No one understands that after the pain of the Shadow of the Colossus quick look, you should just stop fucking caring.

#75 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -

It's a difficult thing. I think a lot of people are too quick to reject criticism of the staff and content on principle, if we really care about the site and wanting it to be as good as it can be, then the exact wrong thing to do whenever we hear criticism is to put our fingers in our ears and start yelling excuses, but at the same time the criticisms of the quick looks aren't always fair. For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word? It must also be remembered that when they're supposed to be playing a lot of different games, and a large part of the quick looks are about going into games fairly fresh, we can't expect them to know every tiny thing about every game. The staff do occasionally mess up in quick looks, but I don't think this is one of those situations.

The quick looks are meant to be a basic representation of the experience you'd have with a game and it didn't seem unrepresentative that Jeff's experience was not knowing about dodging because the game hadn't conveyed information about it's mechanics properly. From what a lot of people have said in here it also doesn't seem like dodging is that fundamental a mechanic or would have been that advantageous for him anyway.

Moderator
#76 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@Bocam said:

No one understands that after the pain of the Shadow of the Colossus quick look, you should just stop fucking caring.

that's the only quick look I've never watched for that reason.

#77 Posted by Pr1mus (3813 posts) -

@Bocam said:

No one understands that after the pain of the Shadow of the Colossus quick look, you should just stop fucking caring.

"Let the record show that i NEVER LET GO of the hold button!"

#78 Posted by project343 (2812 posts) -

@Karkarov said:

It isn't like dodging is really that important out side of some specific enemies or pvp.

I'm going to wholly disagree. I don't know what level you are, but dodging becomes something that is paramount to all encounters as you move forward. If your endurance bar is full in combat, you're doing it wrong (you're excused if you have a trait that buffs you when you have a full endurance bar). With proper dodging and movement, you can easily take on 6-8 enemies at your level and it's exciting as fuck when you do. Hell, I don't understand how someone could take on a Veteran without dodging.

#79 Edited by Rohok (553 posts) -

No, because we're not blind obsessive fanboys of Guild Wars 2 like you.

They do quick looks like this for every game. Skyrim's was like this, TOR was like this, this is their style. If it's only bothering you now, you might want to reexamine your crazed love for Guild Wars 2 and arena net.

#80 Edited by Jumanji (447 posts) -
@huntad said:

@Nickieroonie said:

edit: I suppose the bottom line is that you shouldn't necessarily expect a QL to be a good, informed look at a game. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't.

Yeah, this statement pretty much nails it. I only watch them for the funny moments now. If I want real coverage of a game, I'll usually check 1-2 more sites to see what the game's really like. It sucks that I don't really use this site for any of that anymore, but that's just the way things are. I end up finding a lot of really awesome things about a game that I didn't know were in it, because it wasn't shown here. Oh well.

I agree with you. I started watching Giant Bomb because their excellent Borderlands Quick Look let me vicariously play the game by faithfully explaining and demonstrating the game systems. Quick Looks are failures to me when they totally misunderstand/overlook basic game systems or fail to properly demonstrate how they're implemented. Most egregious and common on the latter point is failing to grasp the basic controls of a game.

@Gamer_152

said:

The quick looks are meant to be a basic representation of the experience you'd have with a game and it didn't seem unrepresentative that Jeff's experience was not knowing about dodging because the game hadn't conveyed information about it's mechanics properly. From what a lot of people have said in here it also doesn't seem like dodging is that fundamental a mechanic or would have been that advantageous for him anyway.

I don't get much value out of "A Quick Look Into Joe Gamer's Pick Up and Go Experience with a Game." I get a LOT of value out of "A Good Faith Look at a Game, With Informed and Funny Commentary on Design Choices or Weird Serendipitous Stuff that Just Happens During the Play Session."
#81 Posted by Drakoji (220 posts) -

@Rohok: Skyrim and TOR had better QL because they did the game justice and played before, Brad played 50~ hours of Skyrim before doing the QL. Jeff was not level freakin' 7 before QLing TOR.

#82 Posted by potatomash3r (126 posts) -

Nope. Its a quick look.

#83 Posted by ajamafalous (11852 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:

For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word?

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what they are supposed to do. Or they can read it out loud/to each other, whatever. Nobody's going to be bored with them reading a tutorial because anyone watching is going to be reading it too. A few seconds of silence is a much better situation than skipping tutorials because they don't want dead air and then not understanding the mechanics that were explained in that tutorial and then getting upset/frustrated and blaming the game. See: a number of Ryan QLs (Brad's been guilty of this in the past too, but not as often).
#84 Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam (3157 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:

From what a lot of people have said in here it also doesn't seem like dodging is that fundamental a mechanic or would have been that advantageous for him anyway.

For the content he was doing, not really, no. Further on it's a requirement that you use dodging well, as the difficulty ramps up very quickly.
#85 Posted by wjb (1638 posts) -

Quick Looks are supposed to be informative? All these years, I've just been watching them for entertainment purposes.

I sympathize with the frustration, but there's a whole new world outside Giant Bomb. Places that appreciate these types of games. Trying to get someone (Jeff) to like something they don't particularly care for because "it's their job" is a crap-shoot, so you might as well go somewhere else for that particular coverage or else don't care so much. In the long-term, what difference does it make if Jeff doesn't know how to dodge or whatever?

But everyone thought it was hilarious (including me) when Jeff and Vinny played NCAA and Madden terribly. I guess that's different?

#86 Posted by Jumanji (447 posts) -
@wjb said:

Trying to get someone (Jeff) to like something they don't particularly care for because "it's their job" is a crap-shoot, so you might as well go somewhere else for that particular coverage or else don't care so much.

It's not about liking sometthing... It's about acquiring some basic knowledge about X product you're demonstrating, and then successfully conveying that knowledge to your audience so they don't have to waste more of their precious lives trying to figure out whether X is worth buying.
#87 Posted by Jumanji (447 posts) -
@ajamafalous said:
@Gamer_152 said:

For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word?

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what they are supposed to do. Or they can read it out loud/to each other, whatever.
Or they can spend 10 minutes before the shoot running through the tutorials.
#88 Posted by Godak (166 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@Gamer_152 said:

For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word?

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what they are supposed to do. Or they can read it out loud/to each other, whatever. Nobody's going to be bored with them reading a tutorial because anyone watching is going to be reading it too. A few seconds of silence is a much better situation than skipping tutorials because they don't want dead air and then not understanding the mechanics that were explained in that tutorial and then getting upset/frustrated and blaming the game. See: a number of Ryan QLs (Brad's been guilty of this in the past too, but not as often).

...And then that frustration leads to pointless wandering and rather boring footage. Remember the LEGO Batman 2 QL? That was sad, and much of it could have been avoided had they read the tool tips that popped up.

#89 Posted by beepmachine (618 posts) -

I was going to buy this game, but I use all of Jeff's opinions as my own, instead of informing myself, and now I'm not.

#90 Posted by TheHBK (5463 posts) -

@Nihilius said:

@ajamafalous: No I'm not new, I am just a fan of the game and I can feel that Jeff doesn't give a shit about it so why is he playing it? I can tell you that he will have a completely different attitude towards PSO2.

This is Giant Fucking Bomb. This is the stuff we expect from the guys. Go somewhere else to see a fanboy do a run through of the game. I come here for his inexplicable love of PSO and their overall ignorance of many games. Guild Wars is not everyone's cup of tea but at least they are showing it. Dodge? Who the fuck cares. He was dancing to start the game and that was awesome.

#91 Posted by jimmyfenix (3829 posts) -

to all of the guild war 2 fan boys we got just two words for ya...

#92 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2682 posts) -

@PrivateIronTFU said:

If I had a nickel for every time someone bitched about how the guys played during Quick Looks, I'd be a fucking millionaire.

There are a million more important things in life. Let this go.

I will literally Paypal you a nickel for every thread you can find of the sort. Get to it.

#93 Posted by wjb (1638 posts) -

@Jumanji said:

@wjb said:

Trying to get someone (Jeff) to like something they don't particularly care for because "it's their job" is a crap-shoot, so you might as well go somewhere else for that particular coverage or else don't care so much.

It's not about liking sometthing... It's about acquiring some basic knowledge about X product you're demonstrating, and then successfully conveying that knowledge to your audience so they don't have to waste more of their precious lives trying to figure out whether X is worth buying.

I think Jeff has already explained himself about the mechanics. Even if they have some basic knowledge, I still think they're damned either way, because someone will have a problem with the way they play, but whatever. I'll never play Guild Wars 2, but "knowing how to dodge but not at the preferred moments" sounds like an extremely petty thing to be upset about, coming from an outsider.

I agree with your statement about planning -- always have -- but I never considered Quick Looks to be on the same level as a review. I don't think that was ever their intention. If someone is making purchases purely from Quick Looks, then they get what they get. If however amount of money is that important to them, then like I said, they need to go to more than one site. Gamespot apparently has in-depth coverage. It's a shame Giant Bomb doesn't cover everything, but again, hardly anyone seems to have an issue with no one on staff liking sports games, at least compared to other genres.

#94 Posted by Lukeweizer (2608 posts) -
@Jumanji
@ajamafalous said:
@Gamer_152 said:

For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word?

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what they are supposed to do. Or they can read it out loud/to each other, whatever.
Or they can spend 10 minutes before the shoot running through the tutorials.
There are no tutorials. That's the problem. They don't walk you through crafting or pvp.
#95 Posted by aurahack (2264 posts) -

@Benny said:

Seriously dude why did you make this post?
#96 Posted by ajamafalous (11852 posts) -
@Lukeweizer said:
@Jumanji
@ajamafalous said:
@Gamer_152 said:

For example I've heard a lot of complaints about how staff aren't reading instructional text in games when it appears, but what are they supposed to do? Sit there in silence while they diligently read through every word?

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what they are supposed to do. Or they can read it out loud/to each other, whatever.
Or they can spend 10 minutes before the shoot running through the tutorials.
There are no tutorials. That's the problem. They don't walk you through crafting or pvp.
We were all speaking generally, not about Guild Wars 2. I've played it, and I'm aware that the game is poorly tutorialized.
#97 Edited by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

I am annoyed by the way anybody of the GB crew is playing in these quicklooks. Period. Video game journalist suck at playing video games. Oh, the irony. Ok, maybe not suck but not as good as they should be for people who make their living by playing video games.

#98 Posted by Ragnarok512 (160 posts) -

Somewhat off topic, but does anyone else hate the term fanboy? Using it as an insult just makes you sound like a tool. Not really directed at anyone, just saying.

/endinflammatorystatement

#99 Edited by Jumanji (447 posts) -
@wjb said:

I think Jeff has already explained himself about the mechanics. Even if they have some basic knowledge, I still think they're damned either way, because someone will have a problem with the way they play, but whatever.

I don't really care if random people have a problem with the coverage... Doesn't affect my enjoyment of the coverage a whit. I care if the coverage fails to meet a basic standard of curiosity and perseverance in learning about and conveying the details of a game's systems. From the posts in this thread, it sounds like actively timing your dodges is an important part of Guild Wars 2's combat design out of the immediate noob levels. This is the kind of thing that I would like to learn from a Quick Look.  
 

@wjb

said:


I agree with your statement about planning -- always have -- but I never considered Quick Looks to be on the same level as a review. I don't think that was ever their intention. If someone is making purchases purely from Quick Looks, then they get what they get. If however amount of money is that important to them, then like I said, they need to go to more than one site.

It's not just about purchasing. When it does come to a buying decision, I rely on the opinions of forum posters whose taste I trust + a quick vicarious play session via a QL or a Let's Play. But in general, I watch Quick Looks and such to keep in touch with what's happening in the industry. I have maybe an hour a day max to devote to games in general, and a lot of the games I do end up playing are retro gems and such... QLs are so much better than written coverage like reviews or forum posts in seeing what games are ACTUALLY doing. So, for someone with my expectations and interests, shoddy misreadings of games don't really give me what I'm looking for.
#100 Edited by Dark_Lord_Spam (3157 posts) -

@dennisthemennis said:

I was going to buy this game, but I use all of Jeff's opinions as my own, instead of informing myself, and now I'm not.

As insane as it sounds, there have already been some in the comments of the quick look stating that they're not going to buy it because it's another generic MMO. I well and truly believe that not to be the case, and feel like if Jeff had detailed a wider slice of the game (perhaps in the Bombcast) and what to expect, those users may have not have paid his bummer attitude so much attention.

@wjb said:

But everyone thought it was hilarious (including me) when Jeff and Vinny played NCAA and Madden terribly. I guess that's different?

That's a fair point, but then I would expect most people know what to expect from EA football games by now. Though, I guess the same could be said about GW2 from Jeff's perspective. I'unno...

@Ragnarok512 said:

Somewhat off topic, but does anyone else hate the term fanboy? Using it as an insult just makes you sound like a tool. Not really directed at anyone, just saying.

/endinflammatorystatement

A-greed, sir.

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