Payton Steps Away from Halo 4

#1 Posted by Toxin066 (3197 posts) -
#2 Posted by Tru3_Blu3 (3154 posts) -

Well... This sucks.

#3 Posted by Cloudenvy (5890 posts) -

Not a fantastic sign.

#4 Posted by MooseyMcMan (9767 posts) -

Wait, so you're telling me that the "fourth" in a series in not creatively exciting?! What a shocker!  
 
All joking aside, that's not cool. I stopped after "finishing the fight" in Halo 3, and I was hoping that this might rekindle my wanting to play a Halo game. Maybe it will. Who knows! 

#5 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -

That's a pretty big bummer.

#6 Posted by HistoryInRust (6215 posts) -
@Cloudenvy
Not a fantastic sign.
#7 Posted by Gamer_152 (13975 posts) -

That's a shame to hear, but as much as I'm worried about what 343 is going to do with the franchise I don't think we should accept this as a sure indication that Payton thought there was something wrong with the game. It's important to note that the article says :

"[Payton] says that he thinks the game won't be bad, it just won't be the one he wants. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different, and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."

Moderator
#8 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

I can't seem to care, I never kne who he was before and this doesn't change a thing for me. 
We don't know jack about the game.
 
Unless I'm told he singlehandedly made every Halo game while the rest of the Bungie/343 crew was just encouraging him.

#9 Posted by sirdesmond (1223 posts) -

A fundamentally different Halo game is the only kind of Halo game I would ever possibly be interested in, so I'm bummed to see that he was not allowed to see it through.

#10 Posted by Deathmachine117 (377 posts) -

For all we know he wanted it to be played from the Arbiters perspective again and seriously fuck that guy.

#11 Posted by Gaff (1493 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong: Ryan Payton? He may, or may not, ring a bell.

Anyway, if the post on Kotaku(apologies in advance) is anything to go by, it's kind of understandable.

#12 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -
@Gaff:  Doesn't ring a bell, but if he's done with Halo he's done.
Sometimes you're just burned out.
 
The article only seems to confirm that!
If he's done, he's done. I'm sure 343 will do a decent enough job.
#13 Posted by Anthony (229 posts) -

He probably wanted more poop jokes and debate about Private Military Companys in the game

#14 Posted by msavo (7522 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

Not a fantastic sign.
#15 Posted by jozzy (2041 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

That's a shame to hear, but as much as I'm worried about what 343 is going to do with the franchise I don't think we should accept this as a sure indication that Payton thought there was something wrong with the game. It's important to note that the article says :

"[Payton] says that he thinks the game won't be bad, it just won't be the one he wants. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different, and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."

Sounds like they are going for a cheap cash-in instead of a serious overhaul. Good for the fans I guess, not so good for people who want to see something fresh for Halo. Of course it is possible that his ideas were just total shit, maybe a Facebook dating game where you try to court Cortana as the Master Chief.

#16 Posted by Ventilaator (1501 posts) -

So I'm assuming that he wanted to make ANYTHING else than a Halo-ass Halo game and the entirety of 343 looked at him like he was insane and told him to sit the fuck down.

#17 Edited by ShaneDev (1696 posts) -

Nothing major in my eyes.  I am sure MS would never let the game slip in quality checks and he himself said it was fine. He has depression according to the Kotaku article and that's a good reason to take things slow. Having seen nothing of Halo 4 yet I wonder what it is like and what he would have liked to do. I don't really know why he expected them to make the Halo he wanted though. Payton seems like a nobody.  I have no idea why he suddenly became such a big name in the industry when the only thing people ever say he did was make the controls in MGS4 decent and change story elements which could be good or bad depending on what he did. Going from working on MGS4 and that franchises PSP outings to being the creative director of Halo is a bizarrely impressive career step and I wonder what he expected when he made the move.

#18 Posted by Gamer_152 (13975 posts) -
@jozzy said:

@Gamer_152 said:

That's a shame to hear, but as much as I'm worried about what 343 is going to do with the franchise I don't think we should accept this as a sure indication that Payton thought there was something wrong with the game. It's important to note that the article says :

"[Payton] says that he thinks the game won't be bad, it just won't be the one he wants. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different, and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."

Sounds like they are going for a cheap cash-in instead of a serious overhaul. Good for the fans I guess, not so good for people who want to see something fresh for Halo. Of course it is possible that his ideas were just total shit, maybe a Facebook dating game where you try to court Cortana as the Master Chief.

Oh, I think it's very likely they're going for a cheap cash-in, but I think that's something we could have assumed from the word go and that the idea that Payton was trying to majorly overhaul the game and couldn't, doesn't in itself mean that he left because he was prevented from somehow improving the game.
Moderator
#19 Posted by msavo (7522 posts) -

@jozzy said:

@Gamer_152 said:

That's a shame to hear, but as much as I'm worried about what 343 is going to do with the franchise I don't think we should accept this as a sure indication that Payton thought there was something wrong with the game. It's important to note that the article says :

"[Payton] says that he thinks the game won't be bad, it just won't be the one he wants. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different, and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."

Sounds like they are going for a cheap cash-in instead of a serious overhaul. Good for the fans I guess, not so good for people who want to see something fresh for Halo. Of course it is possible that his ideas were just total shit, maybe a Facebook dating game where you try to court Cortana as the Master Chief.

I doubt that he wanted to do something that drastic. I bet he wanted to change the pace, story beats and feel of the game and that would require too much time and money. They gotta pump out this next trilogy on 360 now son.

#20 Posted by Manhattan_Project (2063 posts) -

@ShaneDev said:

Nothing major in my eyes. I am sure MS would never let the game slip in quality checks and he himself said it was fine. He has depression according to the Kotaku article and that's a good reason to take things slow. Having seen nothing of Halo 4 yet I wonder what it is like and what he would have liked to do. I don't really know why he expected them to make the Halo he wanted though. Payton seems like a nobody. I have no idea why he suddenly became such a big name in the industry when the only thing people ever say he did was make the controls in MGS4 decent and change story elements which could be good or bad depending on what he did. Going from working on one big name game and that franchises PSP outings to the creative director of one of the biggest franchise in gaming is a bizarrely impressive career step.

This man speaks the truth.

#21 Posted by Turtlemayor333 (510 posts) -

I feel like Bungie was getting bored with Halo after the trilogy and it showed in ODST and Reach, especially storywise.

I say throw all those Halo books and graphic novels and anime and whatever else in the garbage. Halo is about Master Chief just getting it done, man. Keep the number of main characters low and the action high and you'll have a winner. Instead of Reach where it's just a contest to off yourself in the most glory-filled way, since none of the characters would matter otherwise.

Reach is the Phantom Menace of Halo. If he wanted it more like that, I'm glad he's gone.

#22 Posted by gamb1t (964 posts) -

Its Halo 4. /thread

#23 Posted by jozzy (2041 posts) -

@RE_Player92 said:

@jozzy said:

@Gamer_152 said:

That's a shame to hear, but as much as I'm worried about what 343 is going to do with the franchise I don't think we should accept this as a sure indication that Payton thought there was something wrong with the game. It's important to note that the article says :

"[Payton] says that he thinks the game won't be bad, it just won't be the one he wants. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different, and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."

Sounds like they are going for a cheap cash-in instead of a serious overhaul. Good for the fans I guess, not so good for people who want to see something fresh for Halo. Of course it is possible that his ideas were just total shit, maybe a Facebook dating game where you try to court Cortana as the Master Chief.

I doubt that he wanted to do something that drastic. I bet he wanted to change the pace, story beats and feel of the game and that would require too much time and money. They gotta pump out this next trilogy on 360 now son.

Makes sense not to change a clearly winning formula up too much. Doesn't seem like people are getting as tired of more Halo as they seemingly are of more of the same CoD. Just speculating here (because speculating is fun), I haven't bought a Halo or CoD game in years, little tempted by the black Ops deal on GamesOn Demand though.

#24 Posted by EchoEcho (807 posts) -
@Gamer_152; @RE_Player92:
 
The game's been in development for about two years now, and still has a year to go before it's released. If they're trying to make this a "cheap cash-in" and "pump out this new trilogy" then they are seriously doing it wrong. They could have just taken Reach, made a few design tweaks, and made a game out of that -- and they could likely have done that in a year and a half at most. I think it's fair to say they're putting more effort into it than that, and I have faith in Frank O'Connor that he won't let them make a shitty Halo game.
 
343 need to strike a balance between making the franchise fresh again and making sure it still feels like Halo. And considering there aren't many games out there these days that play like Halo, I, for one, am grateful that they aren't going to do anything drastic and completely overhaul the gameplay until it's unrecognizable. What I get from the article is that Payton was interested in pushing Halo 4 to the point that it no longer felt enough like a Halo game, and so the rest of 343 was pushing back. Eventually he got burnt out and decided to start his own gaming studio so he can do whatever the hell he wants.
 
I'm sure he had some positive impact on what the final state of the game will be, because having a differing opinion isn't necessarily a bad thing in game development -- it gets people thinking. In the end, my only concern is that Halo 4 feel fresh, but still feel like Halo. If they accomplish that, with or without Payton, then I'll be happy.
#25 Posted by MiniPato (2657 posts) -

I listened to him on the MGS4 podcast thing, but I'm not sure what he did specifically and depending on the things he did during MGS4's production, he could have a good reputation or a bad one. But right now, he doesn't have a reputation at all, when it comes to game development at least. I don't think his departure should really be a sign of bad things or good things to come.

#26 Posted by Quacktastic (1066 posts) -
@MiniPato: They brought him in to westernize the controls.  I'm like 99% sure.
#27 Posted by Vonocourt (2107 posts) -

Doesn't seem like this dude's life is going swell at all, hope it picks up.

#28 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

Oh goddamnit, it's another fucking Halo game? Fuck.

#29 Edited by Gamer_152 (13975 posts) -
@EchoEcho said:

@Gamer_152; @RE_Player92:  The game's been in development for about two years now, and still has a year to go before it's released. If they're trying to make this a "cheap cash-in" and "pump out this new trilogy" then they are seriously doing it wrong. They could have just taken Reach, made a few design tweaks, and made a game out of that -- and they could likely have done that in a year and a half at most. I think it's fair to say they're putting more effort into it than that, and I have faith in Frank O'Connor that he won't let them make a shitty Halo game. 343 need to strike a balance between making the franchise fresh again and making sure it still feels like Halo. And considering there aren't many games out there these days that play like Halo, I, for one, am grateful that they aren't going to do anything drastic and completely overhaul the gameplay until it's unrecognizable. What I get from the article is that Payton was interested in pushing Halo 4 to the point that it no longer felt enough like a Halo game, and so the rest of 343 was pushing back. Eventually he got burnt out and decided to start his own gaming studio so he can do whatever the hell he wants.  I'm sure he had some positive impact on what the final state of the game will be, because having a differing opinion isn't necessarily a bad thing in game development -- it gets people thinking. In the end, my only concern is that Halo 4 feel fresh, but still feel like Halo. If they accomplish that, with or without Payton, then I'll be happy.

 
Okay, perhaps "cheap cash-in" is a bit harsh, this could still be a good game, I'm just sceptical over the idea that this game can bring that much new to the table amd that we won't see a drop in quality with the coming Halo trilogy. We know this story a million times over by now; a game gets popular, and a publisher funds a bunch of iterations similar to the original game in hopes of making as much cash as possible. Microsoft know that Halo has gotten to the point it has by iterating on the same basic formula over and over and from their perspective I'm sure this is their cash cow. I'm sure that Microsoft didn't set up a subsidiary of themselves devoted to Halo to not make a Halo-ass series of Halo games. The safest move at this point for them is commissioning a bunch of games which stick damn close to the current Halo formula, but even for the less informed games consumers out there a slightly tweaked version of Halo: Reach is not going to cut it.
 
That's not to say that the iterative nature of the previous Halo games was a bad thing, I think the series has done great things up to now but there comes a point of fatigue and if 343 are giving us a whole new trilogy they need to show us that it's justified. That's not to say that the game can't be of some quality or that the people at 343 aren't passionate about what they're making, but games and even entertainment products in general which are in the position that Halo is in now have had a consistent track record of getting run into the ground for the profit of the businessmen controlling them. I think O'Connor has done some great work, but I don't think his input alone assures us that this is an original and consistently high quality Halo game. As for Payton we actually have no idea how much or in what ways he wanted to change Halo specifically, and we can't judge how beneficial or detrimental his input would have been to the game based on pure speculation.
 
Edit: If possible can you get me a source on Halo 4 actually having a three year development cycle? Thank you.
Moderator
#30 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

Screw Ryan Payton. He messed up MGS4 and ran to Microsoft. Coincidence? I think not.

He convinced Kojima that no one cared about the CODEC and said that MGS needed shooter controls to survive. Almost all of the bad decisions from MGS4 were entirely his fault. Asshole tried his best to turn it into a shooter.

Jerk.

#31 Posted by big_jon (5660 posts) -

That's worrying.

#32 Posted by TooWalrus (12978 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

Not a fantastic sign.

You know what, if he's not feeling excited about Halo 4, maybe his stepping aside for someone who IS will be good for the project?

#33 Posted by Vinny_Says (5630 posts) -

@sirdesmond said:

A fundamentally different Halo game is the only kind of Halo game I would ever possibly be interested in, so I'm bummed to see that he was not allowed to see it through.

Maybe the rest of the team are also working on a fundamentally different Halo experience that happens to be fundamentally different from Payton's fundamentally different Halo experience? But go ahead and jump to conclusions....

#34 Posted by EchoEcho (807 posts) -
@Gamer_152: I totally get what you're saying, and I can understand why it's more realistic to be cynical about the situation. After listening to a lot of the panels and interviews from Halofest at PAX this year, though, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt -- it seems like they've got their shit together and have a real vision for the new trilogy that will justify its existence. Of course, if I'm proved wrong, I'll have no problem accepting that, as disappointing as it would be. But I'm trying to remain positive about the future of the franchise (where it relates to video games), at least for the moment. I suppose everything is speculation until we see what they have in store for us, but I'm guessing it won't be until the middle of next year before we're finally shown anything.
#35 Edited by Slaker117 (4835 posts) -

Hm. Not really sure what to make of this. Seeing a big name walk away from a project is always going to be a little worrying, but I never got a good sense of what Payton did to earn his name. Most significant thing I can find about him is that he "westernized" MGS's controls. I've got my own feelings about how successful that attempt was, but regardless, I doubt Halo needs his, or anyones', help being westernized. Without knowing more specifics about his role and ideas for Halo 4, it's hard to say if this matters.
 
Hope everything works out for both him and the dev team he's leaving behind.

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