The Weapon Loadout System Hurts the Multiplayer a lot...

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#1 Posted by Assumedkilla (16 posts) -

I was having more fun with the MP yesterday when everyone didn't have a BR, DMR, or Carbine. I was wondering if picking your weapon beforehand would take away from the "Halo feel" of MP and it does.The best parts of Halos 2, 3, etc was everyone being the same and fighting for the best weapons. Since everyone can spawn with a medium to long ranged rifle now, everything feels like slayer pro. Also, other weapons like sniper rifles, ARs, shotguns, etc are rendered useless in the different deathmatches, since people usually just camp on top of structures and shoot down. There's a little more weapon variety in CTF, Dominion, and other objective games, but it's still there too. This would be like if everyone had a M16 in COD and Battlefield, actually it's kinda worse here, since all the Halo maps are wide open. I'm fine with the armor powers so far.

Also, it's a little off-topic, but the first mission for Spartan Ops sucks, I hope the other ones are better, but ATM, I think they should have just kept firefight.

#2 Posted by jillsandwich (760 posts) -

Yeah, fighting over power weapons is a fundamental part of Halo for me. Also, some of the perks are a little dumb. Picking up grenades? Locking that behind a perk is DUMB.

#3 Posted by Lord_X (7 posts) -

The game overall is just not that great. They made the Active Camo more powerful and Jet Pack near useless, which just doesn't make sense.

#4 Posted by DampedWharf (7 posts) -

@jillsandwich said:

Yeah, fighting over power weapons is a fundamental part of Halo for me. Also, some of the perks are a little dumb. Picking up grenades? Locking that behind a perk is DUMB.

I agree. I keep trying to throw grenades but can't.

Also I feel like the game lacks the same amount of polish that Bungie had.

#5 Posted by Rave (376 posts) -

I'm loving the multiplayer changes the game actually feels fresh to me now, halo was getting stale for me this game has refreshed the series IMO.

#6 Posted by Phatmac (5726 posts) -

I'm loving it and I've played a lot of Halo multiplayer.

#7 Edited by project343 (2838 posts) -

It's the most fun I think I've ever had with Halo. And I was a die-hard Halo: Combat Evolved PC fan. It feels so far removed from the Halo 2 bullshit that I couldn't stand.

*Edit: I figure I should say that I'm exclusively playing Dominion. Been so eager to play this mode since it was announced and it's like multiplayer heaven for me. Cannot comment on any other multiplayer mode.

#8 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

I think it's fantastic. I love the "random" ordinance drops at the beginning of every match; I think they add to the dynamic style of the multiplayer. The vehicles are always there, but the weaponry is always different. No, you won't be able to memorize the best route to the sword, but I think that's a GOOD thing. There's a lot more thinking on your feet in this game.

#9 Edited by Captain_Felafel (1602 posts) -

I'm really enjoying being able to spawn in with a DMR, Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades. The problem I'm seeing, though, is that other than deciding between DMR or BR, there's really no "choice" in what you load in with. Why would you spawn with Frag Grenades or a UNSC Pistol when a Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades have more uses? The same goes for the AR, why spawn with a somewhat powerful close/mid-ranged weapon when the BR and DMR are decent at close range, and excellent at mid and long range? It's nice to be able to choose, but due to the nature of those weapons, I just don't foresee, nor see currently, people choosing anything outside a very limited assortment of weapons.

#10 Posted by jillsandwich (760 posts) -

All this is me just imagining how this works in theory, I haven't picked up my copy yet. Maybe it all works out.

#11 Posted by DystopiaX (5360 posts) -

@murisan said:

I think it's fantastic. I love the "random" ordinance drops at the beginning of every match; I think they add to the dynamic style of the multiplayer. The vehicles are always there, but the weaponry is always different. No, you won't be able to memorize the best route to the sword, but I think that's a GOOD thing. There's a lot more thinking on your feet in this game.

The problem with that for me is that I liked the set weapon drops, even better before 3 when they came at certain time intervals too. That created more of a skill gap- if you knew where and when they'd drop you'd have an advantage over newer players, and if you were good and coordinating with friends then you were even better than the lone wolves dashing for the rockets. It rewarded strategy and teamwork, whereas random drops reward luck and no skill at all.

#12 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel: The light rifle is totally competent and a worthwhile competitor when paired against the BR *AND* DMR. The scoped functionality is essentially a DMR, and the non-scope is more or less a single-shot BR.

#13 Posted by Assumedkilla (16 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel said:

I'm really enjoying being able to spawn in with a DMR, Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades. The problem I'm seeing, though, is that other than deciding between DMR or BR, there's really no "choice" in what you load in with. Why would you spawn with Frag Grenades or a UNSC Pistol when a Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades have more uses? The same goes for the AR, why spawn with a somewhat powerful close/mid-ranged weapon when the BR and DMR are decent at close range, and excellent at mid and long range? It's nice to be able to choose, but due to the nature of those weapons, I just don't foresee, nor see currently, people choosing anything outside a very limited assortment of weapons.

Yeah, that's why I said everything feels like "Slayer Pro" now. Small and big TDM is basically just jump up/down, strafe right/left until one of you dies from a BR... before anyone says I suck, I'm usually the number one or two person in the entire match, but that's a really boring way to play. Bad level design is a problem too. People always pick Haven or Complex and just camp in one area together... you might getaway with using a shotgun or assault rifle on Adrift, but people rarely pick it. I think I'll stick to objective matches if it stays like this. Things will probably get worse once people start unlocking the light rifle.

"Flood" could've been a fun mode, but giving the infected armor abilities pretty much ruined that.

#14 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

@Assumedkilla: Dude.. you gotta look out for the Railgun/Remote Detonator/Binary Rifle. Those spawn without the need of ordinance calldowns. The way I look at the basic playlists is that the "pickup weapons" are now basics, and the "power weapons" are simply more plentiful. Combined with sprint and the AA's, it's simply an evolution. I'm kinda bummed you don't like it; I find it incredibly intense and fun.

#15 Posted by Captain_Felafel (1602 posts) -

@Assumedkilla said:

@Captain_Felafel said:

I'm really enjoying being able to spawn in with a DMR, Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades. The problem I'm seeing, though, is that other than deciding between DMR or BR, there's really no "choice" in what you load in with. Why would you spawn with Frag Grenades or a UNSC Pistol when a Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades have more uses? The same goes for the AR, why spawn with a somewhat powerful close/mid-ranged weapon when the BR and DMR are decent at close range, and excellent at mid and long range? It's nice to be able to choose, but due to the nature of those weapons, I just don't foresee, nor see currently, people choosing anything outside a very limited assortment of weapons.

Yeah, that's why I said everything feels like "Slayer Pro" now. Small and big TDM is basically just jump up/down, strafe right/left until one of you dies from a BR... before anyone says I suck, I'm usually the number one or two person in the entire match, but that's a really boring way to play. Bad level design is a problem too. People always pick Haven or Complex and just camp in one area together... you might getaway with using a shotgun or assault rifle on Adrift, but people rarely pick it. I think I'll stick to objective matches if it stays like this. Things will probably get worse once people start unlocking the light rifle.

"Flood" could've been a fun mode, but giving the infected armor abilities pretty much ruined that.

Well pretty much all of your complaints leveled at the game's multiplayer can be fixed in the future with playlist tweaks/additions. They can easily create a multiplayer variant where everyone spawns with AR's on a map speckled with weapons like BR's, Plasma Pistols and the like.

#16 Posted by Wheatley117 (17 posts) -

I partly agree with that. I also liked the old system better, but I don''t think that the new one is ruining the Multiplayer. Because the Primary Weapon Loadout is limited to the "Standard" rifles the Balance is still good (i am not sure about the promethean weapons, since i have not yet seen anyone with them),. If you could choose Sniper Rifles, Shotguns or whatsoever, well THAT would really suck.

#17 Posted by Skald (4370 posts) -

I like picking a kit before spawning, but I don't like the kill streak packages as much.

#18 Posted by Marz (5671 posts) -

I think it's a good thing they try something different. Gives you a reason to go back to halo 3 / reach multiplayer if you by chance don't like the new changes.

#19 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -

HEY GUYS CALL OF DUTY'S BIG LET'S DO THAT

#20 Posted by Metric_Outlaw (1172 posts) -

I actually really love the ordinance drops and random weapon spawns but I agree about creating a loadout. I had a ball last night and now I'm just tired of being killed by overpowered weapons that someone spawns with instead of picking it up. I was looking for a classic Halo mode but couldn't find one. I really hope they patch it in.

#21 Posted by Dad_Is_A_Zombie (1212 posts) -

Easily the best multiplayer Halo has ever had.

#22 Edited by GunstarRed (5450 posts) -

I don't think there's a single perk or weapon that gives you a distinct advantage over other players. I played one match before the DMR/BR unlocked. Everyone is pretty much on equal ground, sure I've had a couple of moments where I had a damage boost and took out three of the other team with no effort, but moments like that are few and far between.

I think it would be a different matter entirely if there was a perk that increased your health or damage, but about 90% of them are pretty useless, or require pretty unique playstyles.

#23 Posted by GetEveryone (4458 posts) -

@Rave said:

I'm loving the multiplayer changes the game actually feels fresh to me now, halo was getting stale for me this game has refreshed the series IMO.

Except all they've really done is replicate COD rather than Halo.

They've gone from stale to also-ran.

#24 Posted by Scroll (601 posts) -

The assault rifle, storm rifle and suppressor are still very viable on the right maps. And not being able to pick up grenades all the time prevents a fair amount of spam.

#25 Posted by bibamatt (1090 posts) -

With every Halo game I play huge amounts of multiplayer. They always take over my life! I honestly think, from what I've played so far, Halo 4 multiplayer is the best it's ever been. It's still tactical, and very team heavy but it's notched up the intensity. Everything seems better balanced than ever but you also always feel like an absolute badass. I've mentioned in another thread my opinions on the instant respawn making King of the Hill matches worse but everything else is a huge step up in my opinion.

I'm sad that you're not enjoying it as much.

#26 Posted by punkxblaze (2990 posts) -

@Lord_X said:

The game overall is just not that great. They made the Active Camo more powerful and Jet Pack near useless, which just doesn't make sense.

The Jet Pack was OP and annoying as shit in Reach, so a-ok by me.

#27 Posted by Falconer (1707 posts) -

Loadouts are fine. Ordinance drops are totally cool. Infinite running is what breaks this game.

The methodical pace of Halo is completely gone now. The fact that sprinting has replaced crouch on the default control scheme is very telling. It's not JUST the running though. It's that combined with all the new additions. But infinite sprint is definitely top of the list.

Before Halo 4 there was a definitive line in the sand between CoD and Halo. Halo 4 has crossed over to the line closer to CoD. Initial impressions; this game feels like CoD with a Halo skin.

#28 Posted by laserbolts (5365 posts) -

It doesn't feel like call of duty at all. Seriously go back and play call of duty then pop in Halo 4. If you say they are the same you are wrong. The loadouts are a fine addition to the game and doesn't make anyone overpowered. The detonator is by far my favorite new weapon in the game. It's like a claymore. Shoot one on the ground switch to other weapon and lure someone over switch back and boom. Satisfaction. The only thing I don't like is map voting. It's been in these games for a while now but people always pick the same 3 maps. I've played quite a bit of multiplayer and I'm pretty sure I still haven't played on some of these maps.

#29 Posted by Bobby_The_Great (1012 posts) -

I dig it. Feels much more balanced to me, than one team or person getting all the power weapons and you can do nothing to combat it.

#30 Posted by Mister_V (1434 posts) -

Never liked Halo multiplayer before. Quite enjoying this. For what it's worth

#31 Posted by RAMBO604 (137 posts) -

Anyone who has been playing Halo from the beginning saying random power weapon drops is a bad thing is absolutely out of their mind looking for things to hate. Random power weapons prevents the annoying rush to whatever is that maps cheapest weapon. Instead of oh hey the rocket launcher is over here so whoever gets there first gets it you gotta get the lay of the land first. This keeps every match fresh, which for Halo is a big thing in comparison to its competition now where crazy shit is happening left and right.

As for the weapon loadouts how is this a problem? None of the weapons are power weapons and they are all balanced against one another falling into three categories. The "perks" are only slight enhancements aside from fire power which your sacrificing something else you could be using right away anyways to get an extra gun you may not even get a chance to use.

These are evolutions that are direly necessary for Halo at this point. After the release of Call of Duty 4 shortly after Halo 3, Halo as a multiplayer experience has been fighting for relevancy. The player counts for Reach were embarrassing. There is a ton of people playing 4 online, numbers any other multiplayer game would kill for. But at the same time its not massive. Its not week 1 of Halo 3 seeing one million people online. And its sad to say next week Black Ops 2 is going to probably come out and just cleave a big chunk out of whats there.

Halo 4 needed to be a mixture of the what is absolutely expected of an online first person shooter and Halo. Time will tell if it works. People saying this is wrong its not Halo better keep in mind that if Halo doesn't move into the modern FPS landscape there might as well not be a new Halo game because no one will play them anymore. It will be like Reach again where you can jump on at night and see 6,000 people playing with some game types only having a few dozen even playing them. For what was once the 800lb gorilla of online games.

#32 Posted by Akyho (1698 posts) -

I can give just as many reasons why the halo 3 weapon system sucked.

i played hundreds of hours of halo 3 and you know what the wepon drops did? made maps play the exact same way for the first 5 minutes. Ok guys going for rockets....we all will fight over the rocket..oh guy got sniper rifle kill him...we got the rockets ...oh fuck a guys got the fucing shotgun...oh fuck...he is camping. 10 minutes we kill him and his team....minute later they get the shotgun bac and fucking in the room again....ugh or sword....oh he is in the sword room watch ou.....aww hes killed us.

It made the game so repedative. considering i have played 100 hour of halo ce mp. 20 hours of halo 2 mp and 300 odd hours of halo 3. adding armour abilites and the new wepon systems realy freshens the game up. I am tired of sitting around wepon spawns fighting for them or defending them.

Halo reah freshened it up..however one thing ruined reach. Armour lock. It realy slows and ruins the momentum more so when there is absolute dicks with it.

So far i am fine with Halo 4 as I have played so much halo mp over the last 10 years I NEED it to be new and fresh.

#33 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3924 posts) -
@GetEveryone

@Rave said:

I'm loving the multiplayer changes the game actually feels fresh to me now, halo was getting stale for me this game has refreshed the series IMO.

Except all they've really done is replicate COD rather than Halo.

They've gone from stale to also-ran.

Maybe in some features but those two games play completely different.
#34 Posted by GetEveryone (4458 posts) -

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@GetEveryone

@Rave said:

I'm loving the multiplayer changes the game actually feels fresh to me now, halo was getting stale for me this game has refreshed the series IMO.

Except all they've really done is replicate COD rather than Halo.

They've gone from stale to also-ran.

Maybe in some features but those two games play completely different.

Yeah, I haven't even played the thing, so I'm just parroting what I've heard.

Maybe you can help me. I've opened a thread about it, but no one's responded as yet: do you need live to play local multiplayer? Ie. is non-campaign content locked behind a pay-wall? There's been different chatter about this everywhere I look and can't seem to get a straight answer.

#35 Posted by zombie2011 (5048 posts) -

@GetEveryone said:

@Rave said:

I'm loving the multiplayer changes the game actually feels fresh to me now, halo was getting stale for me this game has refreshed the series IMO.

Except all they've really done is replicate COD rather than Halo.

They've gone from stale to also-ran.

No. The game still plays like Halo it just has a COD style wrapping.

#36 Posted by Class_A_Ninja (55 posts) -

I liked how you said it's not like Halo 2, 3, etc. Probably on purpose, because what you are describing is Halo 1, which is the good Halo.

#37 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3924 posts) -
@GetEveryone yeah I saw that I didn't reply cause I'm not 100 percent on it but I'm almost positive you can play split screen without it. Sorry duder wish I could give you a for sure.
#38 Posted by Clonedzero (4196 posts) -

i really like the system.

also, they finally made the assault rifle worth using. im high enough level that i have 3 custom load outs, so i set them all up for different things. i always play objective games, so if i want to defend a flag, i can rock my autosentry / AR kit and drop guys real easy on defense. or i can use my BR and go offense. also depends on the maps.

it keeps things fresh, yes a huge majority of people are sticking with DMR's and BRs but i think that'll change once people realize the guns are pretty balanced. they're just using whats familiar right now.

#39 Posted by GetEveryone (4458 posts) -

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@GetEveryone yeah I saw that I didn't reply cause I'm not 100 percent on it but I'm almost positive you can play split screen without it. Sorry duder wish I could give you a for sure.

No worries, dude. Think I've finally unearthed the answer.

Seems that only Spartan Ops requires gold for offline play, not the multiplayer in its entirety.

#40 Posted by huntad (1958 posts) -

The BR/DMR make the sniper rifle useless? I get at least 4 kills with the sniper rifle every time I pick it up, and I'm bad with it. The loadouts are fine. They actually don't even change the game all that much (at least the primaries don't).

#41 Posted by Bawlsz (84 posts) -

Nothing wrong with the load-outs, all the guns are useful, DMR for more long ranged encounters in bigger maps, BR seems like the jack of all trade, Carbine shreds enemy in close quarters, haven't unlocked Light Rifle, The AR seems a fuck ton more useful then the previous Halo's, it actually kills people quite quickly.

The Pistol is pretty much the same, the Plasma Pistol's lock on has been reduced significantly, and I've been able to dodge most overcharged shots easily, the Boltshot is my favorite, the overcharged shots is like a shotgun blast.

The perks don't seem add much, it's all very passive, you don't get a big advantage at all, Ordinance drop is good, nothing wrong with it, The AA are all pretty balanced against each other, and I've never felt like I died because of cheapness.

The Snipers are incredibly useful especially in bigger maps, and I'm able to get quite a few kills with it and I'm not that great at sniping.

If people are comparing Halo 4 to CoD, I'd say its allot closer to CoD4, none of the editions to Halo 4 seem over the top or over-powered, Its balanced, feels fresh, and most importantly its fun.

#42 Posted by Demoskinos (15136 posts) -

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

#43 Posted by spiralcut (116 posts) -

I think there is a lot of sensationalism regarding this Halo release, but for my two cents, I think it's put together really well. As for the multi-player, well I am no expert shooter guy or anything, but I can safely say that the game feels remarkably well balanced overall.

The reason goes to the nature of the new loadouts, they are designed to make a freshly spawned player NOT feel like they are gimped. I played a few matches this morning, had a K/D of 7-1, just by being smart with my ammo and grabbing the big drops around the level. When I died I was able to get right back in the fight, rather than running around like a hamster trying to survive before I get a decent weapon.

The big thing I realized after this experience is that it actually helps weaker players compete, since they will be dying more and need more help to go against the big guys. A veteran player knows how to control the map, scavenge properly, and plan drops accordingly, while a rookie really doesn't. Therefore he relies on the fact that when he spawns, again and again and again, he can still put up a fight if he knows how to pull the trigger.

I reject the premise that this breaks the game, it makes it more fun! Bigger weapons on the field means more chaos, and ridiculous firefights in the middle of the map rather than spawn camping because the other team has all the drops and there is no way to recover.

Put in your time, get good with a wide variety of weapon systems, and have fun! If you aren't that great go grab a Puma and try to cause some chaos, mix it up and have fun!

#44 Posted by BleedingStarX (283 posts) -

Whilst I am enjoying Halo 4 MP, the more I play it the more I kinda wanna go rebuy Halo Reach

#45 Posted by ViciousReiven (822 posts) -

I completely agree, while the multiplayer is fantastic once it gets going and all the periphery around it is better than ever, when everyone just starts with a mid-long range weapon it becomes tedious and boring, people tend to not bother going after the early power weapons because you'll just get yourself killed by people standing around shooting from across the map, and it becomes a stalemate of dudes shooting until their shields deplete then ducking around a corner. 
 
If the long ranged weapons where map placement/playlist specific only then the dynamic of the matches would be so much better.

#46 Posted by Sammo21 (3526 posts) -

I agree. I think Halo: Reach, or Halo 3, is the pinnacle of the Halo mp experience. I've played the mp since my days of LAN party playing with the first. They need a playlist that's classic Halo. Also, the game is turning into a jumbled mess of "are you high level? you have an advantage." Unlike past Halos, the game is based in unlocks more than skill. Previously you were as good as you were, no matter what you were doing. This game is either going to drive me back to Halo: Reach or just keep me from playing it. If I wanted to play COD I would be buying it next week, not Halo 4.

#47 Posted by brownsfantb (399 posts) -

@Falconer said:

Loadouts are fine. Ordinance drops are totally cool. Infinite running is what breaks this game.

The methodical pace of Halo is completely gone now. The fact that sprinting has replaced crouch on the default control scheme is very telling. It's not JUST the running though. It's that combined with all the new additions. But infinite sprint is definitely top of the list.

Before Halo 4 there was a definitive line in the sand between CoD and Halo. Halo 4 has crossed over to the line closer to CoD. Initial impressions; this game feels like CoD with a Halo skin.

You can't just run everywhere though because of the delay in pulling out your weapon after running. That half-second can be the difference between life and death against a quality opponent.

I think the multiplayer is different but still great. For Halo vets like me, it takes a little bit to adjust to the differences and I think the flow of matches will change as everybody adjusts to different playstyles.

#48 Posted by The_Nubster (2354 posts) -

I started playing the MP yesterday, after finishing off the story, and I was consistently coming in first or second with the basic loadout (AR with Light Shield). It feels fine, you just need to find a use for all of the weapons. I'm glad the power weapons aren't set anymore, because I used to be sick of just getting destroyed by swords and rocket launchers. Now, you need to be quick and smart about when you decide to get a power weapon, and how you utilize it. It's fine, it's fun, and I'm enjoying it more than I ever have.

#49 Posted by Fobwashed (2228 posts) -

I like the new system. None of the loadout choices seem much better than the others and it feels more like you're mildly tweaking towards a specific playstyle rather than doing an overall upgrade. Also, everything is eventually available to everyone as long as you play a while so if you think there's a winning combination, just pick it and bam, you've leveled the play field.

The only thing this game is missing is a rainbow skin that animates for my gun.

Online
#50 Posted by JTB123 (1044 posts) -

I really think it's too early to tell one way or the other, the game has only been out two days. One thing I do like about the loadouts is that I will never ever, ever have to put up with spawning with a damn assault rifle ever gain. It's not like you can spawn with power weapons like the sniper or rocket launcher. That being said, removing weapons from the map does seem like a bad choice, the power weapon conflicts and respawn times were what made map control so vital, that feels less important on certain maps now due to no weapons being there to start.

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