The Weapon Loadout System Hurts the Multiplayer a lot...

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#51 Posted by TooWalrus (13206 posts) -

I disagree, my memories of Halo 3 seem like a clusterfuck of "race for the sword" then die/kill a bunch in the little room where the sword spawns.

#52 Posted by living4theday258 (679 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel: wait you BR/DMR people after removing their shields with a plasma pistol?(the load out you described implies that's how you get kills.) if so that's a very cheap way of getting kills... and its people who use load outs like that that will make me hate the games multiplayer.

#53 Posted by kindgineer (2730 posts) -

Honestly, I like the new layout. I see nothing wrong with the formula that Modern Warefare brought out; but I do understand why is may have some spite taken towards it. I am having a lot more fun with the multi-player than I ever had. Ordinance drops by far are great.

#54 Posted by Captain_Felafel (1573 posts) -

@living4theday258 said:

@Captain_Felafel: wait you BR/DMR people after removing their shields with a plasma pistol?(the load out you described implies that's how you get kills.) if so that's a very cheap way of getting kills... and its people who use load outs like that that will make me hate the games multiplayer.

343 balanced out the Plasma Pistol in this game; the charge-up time seems longer because as soon as I let off, my shields are normally 75% depleted, meaning I have to land that DMR headshot or I'm dead pretty much every time. It's far more risk/reward than it felt in Halo 3/Reach.

#55 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -
@Demoskinos

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

Agreed.
#56 Posted by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

@Sammo21 said:

They need a playlist that's classic Halo.

Slayer Pro - no radar, pre-determined loadouts, no stupid personal ordinance.

#57 Posted by nail1080 (1975 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Demoskinos

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

Agreed.

Indeed, and as someone else in this thread said, you can still go off and play Halo 3 or Reach if you want that style of Halo gameplay

#58 Edited by Sammo21 (3280 posts) -

I never really felt there was a scramble or power weapons. The assault ridle or DMR were excellent enough on their own. At best I found success with keeping power weapons away from people.

The new system in Halo 4 has now become "who is higher level in the match" to determine who will more than likely do better. Originally Halo was never about having more unlocks or specializations. Now, you have an advantage simply for having played longer opposed to being good because you're good.

Also, the new melee sucks. Far to slow to be useful or to be in a Halo game. They either need to go all the way or not at all. Unless things change I probably will end up going back to Reach as I feel the multiplayer, as a whole, is mostly less superior and more reactionary to COD opposed to being its own creature.

#59 Edited by Bawlsz (84 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel said:

@living4theday258 said:

@Captain_Felafel: wait you BR/DMR people after removing their shields with a plasma pistol?(the load out you described implies that's how you get kills.) if so that's a very cheap way of getting kills... and its people who use load outs like that that will make me hate the games multiplayer.

343 balanced out the Plasma Pistol in this game; the charge-up time seems longer because as soon as I let off, my shields are normally 75% depleted, meaning I have to land that DMR headshot or I'm dead pretty much every time. It's far more risk/reward than it felt in Halo 3/Reach.

Also the lock on isn't as sticky as the previous games meaning you can dodge them pretty easily, the power drains allot quicker and if you're using the Plasma Pistol you have to be allot more accurate.

#60 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -
@nail1080

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Demoskinos

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

Agreed.

Indeed, and as someone else in this thread said, you can still go off and play Halo 3 or Reach if you want that style of Halo gameplay

And it's pretty much a guarantee that, in the near future, they will add a Classic game type with none of this stuff.
#61 Posted by Demoskinos (14848 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre said:

@nail1080

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Demoskinos

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

Agreed.

Indeed, and as someone else in this thread said, you can still go off and play Halo 3 or Reach if you want that style of Halo gameplay

And it's pretty much a guarantee that, in the near future, they will add a Classic game type with none of this stuff.

I just want some more playlists. Where is my SWAT and Grifball damn it!

#62 Posted by project343 (2827 posts) -

@jillsandwich said:

Yeah, fighting over power weapons is a fundamental part of Halo for me. Also, some of the perks are a little dumb. Picking up grenades? Locking that behind a perk is DUMB.

Weapon spawn locations adds an unnecessary layer of having to learn an entirely new facet to every map. The new system and UI does a fair bit to remedy that and the traditional 'weapon drops' still exist in other modes (like Dominion).

The problem with grenades is that they turn into a spamfest when firefighting over a pile of corpses. And again, this is remedied in some of the game modes (like Slayer Pro).

#63 Posted by project343 (2827 posts) -

@living4theday258 said:

@Captain_Felafel: wait you BR/DMR people after removing their shields with a plasma pistol?(the load out you described implies that's how you get kills.) if so that's a very cheap way of getting kills... and its people who use load outs like that that will make me hate the games multiplayer.

The plasma pistol has no range and does a terrible job homing. You have to be within a very specific distance for it to 'lock' on you. If you are letting those power shots hit you, you deserve to die. That pistol is inferior in anything that is not a vehicle map when compared to the boltshot or the human pistol.

#64 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -
@Demoskinos

@MariachiMacabre said:

@nail1080

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Demoskinos

I like the loadouts because I have the opposite view. I HATE the scramble for the power weapons. I think loadouts keep everyone on the same level and I like that.

Agreed.

Indeed, and as someone else in this thread said, you can still go off and play Halo 3 or Reach if you want that style of Halo gameplay

And it's pretty much a guarantee that, in the near future, they will add a Classic game type with none of this stuff.

I just want some more playlists. Where is my SWAT and Grifball damn it!

Agreed. But I'm so happy Infection is a playlist at launch. By the time I quit playing Reach it was still only a custom match or a weekend event.
#65 Posted by Sjupp (1910 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

HEY GUYS CALL OF DUTY'S BIG LET'S DO THAT

This. They made a lot of changes that messed up the multiplayer. Loadouts and killstreaks completely throw away whatever importance the map and its weapon spawn locations had.

#66 Posted by ajamafalous (12003 posts) -
@Sjupp said:

@ajamafalous said:

HEY GUYS CALL OF DUTY'S BIG LET'S DO THAT

This. They made a lot of changes that messed up the multiplayer. Loadouts and killstreaks completely throw away whatever importance the map and its weapon spawn locations had.

That's why I'm so disappointed. Halo's MP (1-3, I didn't play Reach) was all about map control and weapon spawns like Quake or UT. With no weapon pickups, no grenades, perks and loadouts, it's not even identifiable as Halo anymore.
#67 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

Fuck, I just spent an entire game getting sniped on Ragnarok while both of my ordinance drops only offered needlers...

#68 Posted by TheCrusher (6 posts) -

So far I'm enjoying the way multiplayer is handled in Halo 4. Granted I've played Reach for only a bit before selling it, didn't really grab me, and the only other I played for hours at a time was Halo 1 on PC. Halo 4's version quite obviously takes elements from CoD4's ever-popular system, and considering how successful it is that's fine. What I like here, though, is that levels seem to be VERY generous; I've played for maybe a combined 4 or 5 hours of MP and I'm already in the late teens of SR ranking. I feel as if a casual player would have nearly everything that affects gameplay in a meaningful way unlocked within a week or two. Without "prestiges" rolling you back and the array of pointless weapon choices that CoD games offer, Halo 4 gives a pretty good balance of instant viability and new found power from ranking up. With all the talk of BR/DMR dominance, I must say that I've been rolling with Storm Rifle/Magnum combo paired with dexterity to fast swap weapons and it's pretty nice. Even on large maps, provided you can close gaps using cover, it's amazingly effective. The AR variants do not lose in close range and it's nice. Also, I had to smile a bit when I got my first "ROAD TRIP!" medal.

#69 Posted by Assumedkilla (16 posts) -

@TheCrusher said:

So far I'm enjoying the way multiplayer is handled in Halo 4. Granted I've played Reach for only a bit before selling it, didn't really grab me, and the only other I played for hours at a time was Halo 1 on PC. Halo 4's version quite obviously takes elements from CoD4's ever-popular system, and considering how successful it is that's fine. What I like here, though, is that levels seem to be VERY generous; I've played for maybe a combined 4 or 5 hours of MP and I'm already in the late teens of SR ranking. I feel as if a casual player would have nearly everything that affects gameplay in a meaningful way unlocked within a week or two. Without "prestiges" rolling you back and the array of pointless weapon choices that CoD games offer, Halo 4 gives a pretty good balance of instant viability and new found power from ranking up. With all the talk of BR/DMR dominance, I must say that I've been rolling with Storm Rifle/Magnum combo paired with dexterity to fast swap weapons and it's pretty nice. Even on large maps, provided you can close gaps using cover, it's amazingly effective. The AR variants do not lose in close range and it's nice. Also, I had to smile a bit when I got my first "ROAD TRIP!" medal.

I would say there is something wrong with Halo, the multiplayer that started it all on console, copying another game's system. Well, not that COD invented it, since Rainbow Six and other games had it first but they never get credit. However, COD did start the craze and instead of innovating the 343 guys just bend over and take it. That's not a BIG deal to me, but it is disappointing as an ex Halo 2 mulitplayer junkie.

I'm not sure who you're going against using those guns, but since people ONLY seem to pick Haven, Complex, and Ragnarok during TDM, I can't see a good player getting killed by a storm rifle since they wouldn't let you get that close. It might work on Adrift and some of the smaller maps, but people hardly every pick those from what I've played. A BR or DMR is always going to beat a SR from medium to long range, and only someone not very good or who's not paying attention to their radar would let you get close.

#70 Posted by DystopiaX (5310 posts) -

@PeasantAbuse said:

Fuck, I just spent an entire game getting sniped on Ragnarok while both of my ordinance drops only offered needlers...

That's why I hate adding random factors to skill based games. THe other team didn't win because they were better necessarily, they won because they got lucky and got snipers.

#71 Posted by OldManLight (847 posts) -

as much as this sounds like a cop out answer, i'd give it time. I bet you start seeing weapon restrictions in some playlists start to pop up as a result of balancing like everyone starting with an AR and the DMR, BR type weapons becoming map emplacements. The halo community will ultimately get what it wants from 343. They seem to have a good knack for that judging by how they handled the tail end of halo reach with a lot of community maps and game variants becoming mainstays in the normal playlists. i agree, everyone with a long range rifles turns the game into camp fests which is not what is fun about halo.

#72 Posted by BillyTheKid (486 posts) -

The game is unbalanced out of this world. Some matches you will destroy because you know where to go. Other matches you won't because people are already there.

The game encourages camping, and that is not what Halo is or ever was.

#73 Posted by Rawrz (590 posts) -

I love the aodout system since im no longer forced to play lame ass AR start matche. I just dont see whats fun about kids spamming nades and spraying constantly until they could get a melee. Im also happy about the grenade perk hing since there was far too much grenade spam going on in Halo Reach.

#74 Posted by Ravelle (1274 posts) -

@Rawrz said:

I love the aodout system since im no longer forced to play lame ass AR start matche. I just dont see whats fun about kids spamming nades and spraying constantly until they could get a melee. Im also happy about the grenade perk hing since there was far too much grenade spam going on in Halo Reach.

There is still grenade spam when people enter closequarter combat.

#75 Posted by Demoskinos (14848 posts) -

The amount of butthurt in here is amusing. The core combat is still very much halo. The fact that they cribbed a few things from calm of duty is a good thing. It actually feels like a modern shooter now. If anything I think Bungie was holding halo back from evolving. The game is all about skill now instead of a mad dash for the power weapons. Again, a good thing that means anyone who is good at shooters can jump in and instantly feel like they have a chance. Haters gonna hate. MASTER CHIEF DONT CARE.

#76 Posted by Ravelle (1274 posts) -

But you see, there must always be something to hate on, otherwise they ain't cool. :P

#77 Posted by Rawrz (590 posts) -

@Ravelle: Thats true though I dont see the nade spam as bad as Reach since most people only have 2 and there not as overpowered as the grenades were in Reach.

#78 Posted by Ravelle (1274 posts) -

@Rawrz said:

@Ravelle: Thats true though I dont see the nade spam as bad as Reach since most people only have 2 and there not as overpowered as the grenades were in Reach.

Yeah, they don't have that much of a radius and most of people shield's will stop the impact.

#79 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3873 posts) -

I played around 6 hours of system link mp with 5 friends on the weekend and I have to say this is the most fun I've had playing mp halo and i've played a pretty good amount of 3 and Reach. Sprint is a huge benefit to the game and the weapons feel pretty great. The ordinance drops don't unbalance the game at all and there's still lots of power weapons to fight over. The game is great. GREAT.

#80 Posted by gaminghooligan (1447 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

The amount of butthurt in here is amusing. The core combat is still very much halo. The fact that they cribbed a few things from calm of duty is a good thing. It actually feels like a modern shooter now. If anything I think Bungie was holding halo back from evolving. The game is all about skill now instead of a mad dash for the power weapons. Again, a good thing that means anyone who is good at shooters can jump in and instantly feel like they have a chance. Haters gonna hate. MASTER CHIEF DONT CARE.

Completely agree. This is the first Halo that didn't take me weeks of playing before I could compete on the same level as Halo obsessed friends.

Also I feel like the ordinance weapons and load-outs force people to try different strategies. I would be killing with the AR find a Fuel Rod Cannon, die, then drop in a Saw. The constant weapon change up feels better than ever, plus the maps seem to be packed with high powered weapons. Not to mention the armor customization and other unlocks add the carrot on the stick I need to progress, but unlike CoD the ability to buy what I want to use (something I liked in Black Ops) makes the progression more meaningful.

#81 Posted by JadeGL (872 posts) -

No firefight, boo.

Other than that, I have enjoyed the MP so far, but I have only played very little, enough to unlock the DMR. I like the large Slayer maps with the vehicles, those seem to be the mostly zany fun at the moment. Flood is neat but I can see that getting old.

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#82 Posted by HistoryInRust (6317 posts) -

@JadeGL said:

No firefight, boo.

Other than that, I have enjoyed the MP so far, but I have only played very little, enough to unlock the DMR. I like the large Slayer maps with the vehicles, those seem to be the mostly zany fun at the moment. Flood is neat but I can see that getting old.

Firefight is, indeed, the bigger loss. A huge bummer.

Like you say, Flood is a nice way to kill time with your pals when you want to play Halo but don't want to deal with people whose skill level may or may not be lightyears ahead of your own.

#83 Posted by Ravelle (1274 posts) -

@HistoryInRust said:

@JadeGL said:

No firefight, boo.

Other than that, I have enjoyed the MP so far, but I have only played very little, enough to unlock the DMR. I like the large Slayer maps with the vehicles, those seem to be the mostly zany fun at the moment. Flood is neat but I can see that getting old.

Firefight is, indeed, the bigger loss. A huge bummer.

Like you say, Flood is a nice way to kill time with your pals when you want to play Halo but don't want to deal with people whose skill level may or may not be lightyears ahead of your own.

Spartan Ops replaced kinda replaced it, but yeah I miss it too. Let's hope they'll bring it back in upcoming updates.

#84 Posted by JoelTGM (5596 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@Sjupp said:

@ajamafalous said:

HEY GUYS CALL OF DUTY'S BIG LET'S DO THAT

This. They made a lot of changes that messed up the multiplayer. Loadouts and killstreaks completely throw away whatever importance the map and its weapon spawn locations had.

That's why I'm so disappointed. Halo's MP (1-3, I didn't play Reach) was all about map control and weapon spawns like Quake or UT. With no weapon pickups, no grenades, perks and loadouts, it's not even identifiable as Halo anymore.

There are power weapons and grenades that spawn in the maps. The perks are just your armor abilities, nothing extreme, and the loadouts just mean everyone starts with the basic setup they want depending on what playstyle they prefer. In previous Halos the competitive games played BR matches anyway, so this way you can start with it or pick other guns, and it's not like the other guns are useless. Just depends what range you plan to fight from. And killstreaks just give you a supply drop so you can get an overshield, a speed boost, damage boost, or a power weapon or something. It's a new Halo game, so I'm okay with it not being the exact same as before. It's not like there are helicopters called in and dogs attacking players. It totally feels like Halo to me.

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