(Do not buy) Hitman Absolution

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#151 Posted by pyrodactyl (1961 posts) -

@warxsnake said:

I really dont like it. And I'm typically a big Hitman fan. For a franchise built around player choice, you don't have much choice before going in a mission, you dont get access to a weapons bank or so on before a mission. They could have at least added a black market system or something. I bought a weapons an armor DLC thinking i'd get to use it, but those are only available in non-campaign mode that I'm not interested in. Also the game is blatant ripoff of most of Splinter Cell Conviction's core gameplay features (which is humbling, as a Ubi developer), it makes their marketing slogan "The original Assassin" even more ironic, as nothing in the gameplay loop is original. Besides the presentation which is very well done, the rest is very mediocre and unsatisfying. Ever since the first gameplay trailer, I figured out the direction they were taking and was instantly disappointed; Hitman Conviction.

I'd say it as more in common with splinter cell double agent than conviction. Either way, those games were terrible and shouldn't inspire any develloper trying to make a good stealth game. No offence.

Now both series, once at the top of a genre, forgot why they were fun and compelling in the first place. Let's hope eidos montreal can salvage this mess before it ends up as an other soulless action third person shooter.

#152 Edited by Baal_Sagoth (1250 posts) -

I finally got Absolution and am 6 or 7 levels in I think (just finished the Gunshop mission) and I'm having an excellent time. I cannot express how relieved I am after the divisive reactions it got but this is most definitely a Hitman game for me. Now, I wouldn't even argue that it isn't a massive deviation from the classical Hitman style, so absolutely be prepared to deal with that, but I'm just really enjoying myself with this new format. Also my expectations were exceptionally cautious due to the backlash of course and that might have worked in my favor - maybe I just got the shock of not getting an actual SA or BM sequel out of my system that way.

To give a little context I play Hitman since Agent 47 and enjoyed even that and every game since then in its own way. Silent Assassin and Blood Money are my favorites (over Absolution as well so far). I was really down with the story-telling techniques of Kane & Lynch and Absolution merges a lot of the same stuff with the Hitman lore (which I always thoroughly enjoyed as well, apparently in contrast to many Hitman fans). The in-your-face points stuff is marginally inferior to BM's clue system and the end of mission tally is a step back from BM's glorious newspaper articles but works very well.

The levels aleternate between classical hits that are somewhat smaller in scope and more story focussed moments. Shooting is a more viable option but more engaging as well. Disguises are actually pretty fun but they work differently which takes time getting used to. Stealth is a little more bland, boring and predictable due to the cover-mechanics but works well and is merely one of several options most of the time. Notorious levels like the library (at the end of the campaign coverage in the QL) are no more frustrating and annoying than, let's say, the opening of Contracts. Which is to say they're kind of annoying momentarily in my opinion. The pre-determined loadouts haven't bothered me a bit so far since you can quickly get your hands on several fantastic toys if you're not going in all Silent Assassin-like with the fiber wire in the first place.

Agent 47 is still cool as all hell, the more dramatic plot is a surprise but I'm down with it, the characters are deliciously fucked up pieces of shit. Oh and I haven't had time to check out Contracts mode which looks very interesting. I can't really alleviate anyone's fears of changes because those are present but I'd strongly advise against joining the outrage bandwagon if you can approach the game with an open mind and are cool with getting something different than the previously established Hitman formula. To those who already played it: for me it finally clicked when I finished "Hunter and Hunted" - that was just an ecstatic 'It's so fucking good to be back' moment for me.

#153 Posted by warxsnake (2645 posts) -
@pyrodactyl said:

@warxsnake said:

I really dont like it. And I'm typically a big Hitman fan. For a franchise built around player choice, you don't have much choice before going in a mission, you dont get access to a weapons bank or so on before a mission. They could have at least added a black market system or something. I bought a weapons an armor DLC thinking i'd get to use it, but those are only available in non-campaign mode that I'm not interested in. Also the game is blatant ripoff of most of Splinter Cell Conviction's core gameplay features (which is humbling, as a Ubi developer), it makes their marketing slogan "The original Assassin" even more ironic, as nothing in the gameplay loop is original. Besides the presentation which is very well done, the rest is very mediocre and unsatisfying. Ever since the first gameplay trailer, I figured out the direction they were taking and was instantly disappointed; Hitman Conviction.

I'd say it as more in common with splinter cell double agent than conviction. Either way, those games were terrible and shouldn't inspire any develloper trying to make a good stealth game. No offence.

Now both series, once at the top of a genre, forgot why they were fun and compelling in the first place. Let's hope eidos montreal can salvage this mess before it ends up as an other soulless action third person shooter.

Reviewers and critics overall disagree with you so its all good, and I dismiss exaggerations anyway. 
And Hitman Absolution has more in common with Conviction, with a 1 to 1 rip of Conviction's Mark and Execute system among other things.
#154 Posted by NipCrip66 (124 posts) -

I've only played 15 minutes of previous Hitman games but am loving this one. Am 10 missions in and think it is perfectly weighted re. hints & difficulty.

#155 Posted by pyrodactyl (1961 posts) -

@warxsnake said:

@pyrodactyl said:

@warxsnake said:

I really dont like it. And I'm typically a big Hitman fan. For a franchise built around player choice, you don't have much choice before going in a mission, you dont get access to a weapons bank or so on before a mission. They could have at least added a black market system or something. I bought a weapons an armor DLC thinking i'd get to use it, but those are only available in non-campaign mode that I'm not interested in. Also the game is blatant ripoff of most of Splinter Cell Conviction's core gameplay features (which is humbling, as a Ubi developer), it makes their marketing slogan "The original Assassin" even more ironic, as nothing in the gameplay loop is original. Besides the presentation which is very well done, the rest is very mediocre and unsatisfying. Ever since the first gameplay trailer, I figured out the direction they were taking and was instantly disappointed; Hitman Conviction.

I'd say it as more in common with splinter cell double agent than conviction. Either way, those games were terrible and shouldn't inspire any develloper trying to make a good stealth game. No offence.

Now both series, once at the top of a genre, forgot why they were fun and compelling in the first place. Let's hope eidos montreal can salvage this mess before it ends up as an other soulless action third person shooter.

Reviewers and critics overall disagree with you so its all good, and I dismiss exaggerations anyway. And Hitman Absolution has more in common with Conviction, with a 1 to 1 rip of Conviction's Mark and Execute system among other things.

The multi-target painting mechanic in hitman is a rip of red dead redemption. Big differences between the RDR system and the splinter cell one. Besides, the general gameplay is not as fast pace as conviction and more the speed of double agent.

As for critics overall disagreement: in fact they agree,

Crowning achievement of game design and one of the best games in the stealth genre to ever be released: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory

Great games: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-conviction

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-double-agent

sounds very much like a downgrade to me...

#156 Posted by Fearbeard (826 posts) -

Hitman is a bit dissapointing, but it's still pretty freakin awesome.

#157 Posted by warxsnake (2645 posts) -
@pyrodactyl: So they are great games, not "terrible games that shouldn't inspire any develloper(sp)"? Again why I should stop arguing with people who exaggerate.
#158 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

So far I'm just getting tired of the linear missions, I want to be placed on a level with people to kill, not avoiding cops and sneaking out of orphanages.

#159 Edited by Atwa (617 posts) -

Finished it and outright disliked it. The disguise system is a JOKE! and if you want to say something against that play on the higher difficulties, they are USELESS there. On purist they detect you in one second if you have their disguise, if they have line of sight, range doesn't even matter.

The story levels are mostly just getting to the end, without actually killing ANYONE. These just suck, they are basically just observing the patrol routes then moving form cover to cover and passing them when they turn around. Its very tedious.

#160 Posted by Scotto (1174 posts) -

If I'd ask them to make one change to this game in a post-release patch, it would be how the disguises work - either by making them stand up to scrutiny a lot longer, or by drastically decreasing the range and angle at which the "suspicion arrows" show up. Maybe both. If a guy is talking to someone, his suspicion shouldn't skyrocket because someone in the same uniform is walking around in the absolute corner of his peripheral vision, y'know?

Some of my frustration with the disguises had more to do with the "gamey-ness" of it - why does every cop, every plumber, every henchman, know the face and identity of every other cop, plumber, and henchman?

I mean, I sort of get it - surely the cops and hired guns have probably been given your description, and it's not like a bald ghostly-white guy is terribly subtle in appearance. But it can make for frustrating gameplay sometimes.

Overall I've had a good time with the game, but there are a few warts with the actual mechanics that can be really annoying. I like how they give Agent 47 a little more personality this time, and how they kind of flesh out who he is, and how he is perceived, a bit more. I just wish they'd given you more control over the environment, and less time spent rolling from cover to cover and monitoring patrol routes. That kind of precision might make sense if you're trying to go through in his default suit, on the highest difficulty, but disguises should allow you far more freedom.

#161 Posted by project343 (2816 posts) -

@Oni said:

Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored are both better stealth games AND better action games, and Hitman is ostensibly ABOUT the stealth.

I think this is the important summating line for me. I will, for sure, not be picking up this game. You are not the only person who has vocalized something similar.

#162 Posted by Intro (1206 posts) -

I say buy it, I've been playing it on PC and I'm loving the hell out of it.

#163 Posted by dudeglove (7718 posts) -

@Scotto: Seems a shame because it almost looked like an interesting rock-paper-scissors twist on the BM disguise system. Cops know their buddies, but not the janitors etc.

#164 Edited by Scotto (1174 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

@Scotto: Seems a shame because it almost looked like an interesting rock-paper-scissors twist on the BM disguise system. Cops know their buddies, but not the janitors etc.

There is a certain amount of that, don't get me wrong. If you dress up as a janitor, the cops will just let you do your thing. And you can enter certain areas if you're wearing certain disguises. Of course, the problem is those areas are being patrolled by similarly dressed guys, so you have to sneak around anyway.

The game has more than enough classic Hitman moments to be worth playing.

#165 Posted by Scotto (1174 posts) -

@project343 said:

@Oni said:

Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored are both better stealth games AND better action games, and Hitman is ostensibly ABOUT the stealth.

I think this is the important summating line for me. I will, for sure, not be picking up this game. You are not the only person who has vocalized something similar.

I've played all three, and I enjoyed this game more than Dishonored. I agree with Deus Ex being better, however.

#166 Edited by studnoth1n (222 posts) -

normally i would side with the gadfly, but this is hardly one of the more offensive cases where it's just a blatant, formulaic money-grab, one game being churned out after the other. i will admit, there are some changes that seem almost antithetical to the series, which i could understand how this would be alienating to people who have followed the series for the last decade, but in the end IO took certain risks, which hit or mist, i can respect. and let it be known, the contracts mode is actually a really fine idea, it's just a little raw in it's current form.

#167 Posted by Laiv162560asse (487 posts) -

I've already posted once in this thread echoing my agreement with the OP so I won't go on at length, but now that I've completed it I wanted to add my updated opinion. The mixed press for Absolution nearly put me off purchasing but I stuck to my preorder because 1) I figured a bad Hitman game was probably still a decent game and 2) I have bought several good games this year, so one miss among those hits would not bother me too much. After the tutorial and the King of Chinatown levels, I felt like this was a good call. I was somewhat enjoying it.

Having finished the game, I really regret buying it. It crossed a threshold of shoddiness that I didn't expect it to cross. Like another guy on this page, I outright dislike it. I can't ever remember having to force myself to play a game in the way I felt I had to with this. The handful of moments of middle-tier Hitman-quality gameplay do not offset level after level of tedious evasion. It also has one of the worst, dumbest stories I've ever seen in a high budget game. It didn't bother me at first, but as the game dragged on I felt like the lazy, stupid writing was digging a hole that future entries in the series may struggle to climb out of. These major complaints are cemented together with countless minor niggles. It looks gorgeous - that's it.

Any reviewer who gave this game a thumbs up certainly hasn't got tastes that resemble mine in the least, so I'll be taking their reviews with a huge bucket of salt from now on.

#168 Posted by JerichoBlyth (1044 posts) -

Agreed, it is fucking shite.

#169 Posted by BaconBuTTy (172 posts) -

Oh this thread is a shame.

I just got past the Courtroom and Prison levels and it's all so great.

I love this game.

It's a shame when something is polarizing to the point of pissing people off.

#170 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

@BaconBuTTy said:

Oh this thread is a shame.

I just got past the Courtroom and Prison levels and it's all so great.

I love this game.

It's a shame when something is polarizing to the point of pissing people off.

As a fan of the series, it does make me sad to see this game moving in such a different direction than the others, but I'm still having fun with it.

#171 Posted by BaconBuTTy (172 posts) -

@YOU_DIED said:

@BaconBuTTy said:

Oh this thread is a shame.

I just got past the Courtroom and Prison levels and it's all so great.

I love this game.

It's a shame when something is polarizing to the point of pissing people off.

As a fan of the series, it does make me sad to see this game moving in such a different direction than the others, but I'm still having fun with it.

I can absolutely see that.

I started this game feeling very disappointed myself. And, I am still sad that many parts of Hitman have been changed, maybe beyond repair at this point.

But this is still a great Hitman game. Even if I do spend a lot of time wishing I could play 'A New Life' in this engine.

#172 Posted by Ravelle (1225 posts) -

@YOU_DIED said:

@BaconBuTTy said:

Oh this thread is a shame.

I just got past the Courtroom and Prison levels and it's all so great.

I love this game.

It's a shame when something is polarizing to the point of pissing people off.

As a fan of the series, it does make me sad to see this game moving in such a different direction than the others, but I'm still having fun with it.

You're like the first fan who isn't banishing the game to hell and hates everyone for liking what they call a " dumbed down game* .

#173 Edited by pyrodactyl (1961 posts) -

@Ravelle said:

@YOU_DIED said:

@BaconBuTTy said:

Oh this thread is a shame.

I just got past the Courtroom and Prison levels and it's all so great.

I love this game.

It's a shame when something is polarizing to the point of pissing people off.

As a fan of the series, it does make me sad to see this game moving in such a different direction than the others, but I'm still having fun with it.

You're like the first fan who isn't banishing the game to hell and hates everyone for liking what they call a " dumbed down game* .

Oh it's still a good game and I had fun with it but instead of every level being a swimming pool full of opportunities and sandbox gameplay, there's at least 50% that focus on mecanics from non hitman games everyone realised were bad 6 years ago.

I'm sure playing on normal mitigates some issues but when the strategy in most levels is stay out of sight and move from cover to cover, it's just no fun at all. Especialy when you can't decide when you make a save and have to wait trough the same guard paterns and ambiant dialogue 3 billion times because they placed the checkpoint in a bad spot. Other people might say that the best stealth games are the ones that give you great tools to fight if you get spotted. It seems everyone in the gaming industry forgot that a stealth game is most fun when you're still unoticed, laughing at the guards and npcs because you outsmarted them.

I thought developpers realised years ago that a stealth game has to give the player powerfull tools to overcome the obstacles. That's what makes a stealth game fun. Usefull disguises in hitman made you feel like a badass walking around and hiding in plain sight. Now, in half the levels, disguises are completly useless and you get spoted in half a second by one of the 100 guards in every given level if you round a corner to quickly and have to start from a checkpoint that's maybe 10 minutes before. That's not fun. Let's take splinter cell as an other exemple, in chaos theory the darkness was a incredible allie to sam fisher and you could be siting 2 inches from a guard and he wouldn't notice you in the dark. No waiting trough guard paterns, you made the light flicker and past right under their nose. What did they do with such great core gameplay that made you feel like a god? They threw it in the trash of course. Memorizing the route of every npc and visualising vision cones for every guard sounds like fun dosen't it? No, not at all.

Hitman absolution is still a good game the same way splinter cell: double agent was still a good game: the part where they stayed true to the franchise are great, if not awesome or perfect, the parts where they made a stealth game from 1995 are not.

#174 Posted by tread311 (355 posts) -

I was really excited for this one even after the mixed reviews. Unfortunately I have to agree with many that the game isn't great. The disguise system isn't very fun and kind of becomes a chore. The sandbox feel is missing. Overall it's not bad but it it doesn't rate with Hitman 2 or Blood Money.

#175 Posted by Moblin (15 posts) -

The game is built with the current disguise system in mind. Changing it would not really work. It is a shame, for example I am a chef and a chef from a different vendor spots me and calls me out.... are all the chefs in china town in some sort of union? Still a fun game and i cant get mad that this is what the designers wanted to make but after playing blood money for the first time recently and loving it, it is a shame

#176 Posted by theimmortalbum (483 posts) -

@AssInAss said:

Played 22 hours on Expert (no checkpoints), and that's just the first 5 levels because of all the challenges and ways to take out a target. Loads of replayability and trial and error :P

Playing down on Hard is actually more the normal difficulty if you're good at stealth games.

It certainly has more options of going about objectives than Dishonored, there are sometimes 10 ways to do an assassination. King of Chinatown, especially.

This is why I'm bad at Hitman. I couldn't figure out a single way. I ended up doing really poorly on that by just screwing it up, essentially, and killing everyone then hiding to get out the exit. :(

Also, gonna say this: I love the Hitman series, and I'm having a blast with Absolution.

I also love the Splinter Cell series and think Conviction is great - Chaos Theory is the peak, but Conviction is still very good.

#177 Posted by Glottery (1182 posts) -

Got a copy of this a handful of days before it's actual release (16th day) and was pretty stoked about spending the whole weekend playing Hitman. I did play it from friday to sunday, but just a few hours per session. Had *kinda* positive feelings in the beginning, with the tutorial level hinting at familiar mechanics from the previous games. But I also made the mistake of thinking, that the whole "levels divided into sections" was just part of the tutorial, or wouldn't at least be that frequent in the actual levels, so to say. Well then..."King of Chinatown" was kinda fun, masses of people and the way you could hide yourself among them was pretty impressive and fun. Multiple ways to off the target also gave me that good, familiar feeling. The most dissapointing bit in that was how small the playground was. But seeing how that was just one of the first missions, I didn't mind it too much.

Then came the great looking Hotel Terminus one. The level design on that was nice and detailed, showing that at least the IOI guys still know how to do that stuff...but while playing through it, I couldn't keep myself from thinking, how great would this hotel be as a one, gigantic sandbox, instead of what it was now. Then came that actiony bit, which amused me at first, with how brutal 47's executions were and just the awesome feeling I've been used to in previous Hitman games, when I'm walking past enemies in a disguise. Then came another...another...and then I already felt like "Ookay, that's about enough sneaking around, can we get back to assassinating people?" and almost right after that, a mission like that game...but in the same goddamn area as the "King of Chinatown"? 'the hell?! It was still fun, but ugh...only a little more open version of the same area? After that my mixed feelings 'bout the game began to go way more negative.

I can't even remember what came after that. The trainstation bit with more masses of people was visually impressive stuff, once again, but nothing much beyond that. After that...uuh...that sort-of-50's level, I guess? That was decent fun, but again in a way-too-small scale. Even more so after that. Theeen after that whole Lenny deal...

...I stopped playing. Because I had played it for an hour or so, that is, and had other things to do. But that was last...thursday or friday, I think. Haven't touched it since, even if I was planning on doing so during the weekend. A real goddamn shame, I tell you. Like said, I started the game feeling carefully positive, then started bordering between positive and negative, theeen mainly negative and finally...just neutral. Goddamnit! This isn't as terrible game to me as to some people, but it could've been so much more. Sooo much more. I...guess I'll be playing through it eventually, but I'm probably not going to have too much fun with it, unlike with Blood Money, which I chewed through while enjoying nearly every bit of it.

So...yeah. Even if they would add some oldskool sandboxy levels as DLC (even if I'm not sure I'll still own the game when that happens) I think this is the only game this year that has left me with such a dissapointed feeling. Hopefully Far Cry 3 will at least be a blast, even if there's a "risk" that I'll forget about playing Ab-Solution completely because of that.

#178 Posted by Demoskinos (14714 posts) -

This s another case of can't please everyone. God forbid the series actually try to evolve rather than be stuck in an unimaginative sequel. There is a ton of classic hitman. The disguise system being like it is is FINE. In past games the disguises were too much of a win button. People complain about stealth when this has arguably some of the hardest stealth sections I've ever played. Especially if you do suit only on every level which is much more interesting than using disguises anyways. I'd rather this series evolved rather than stagnated. If your not on the hitman train going forward then your loss.

#179 Posted by AndrewB (7565 posts) -

The only thing I really haven't liked about it so far is that the game is at its best when you're finding creative ways to kill a target. I've been on a long and fairly narrow stealth sequence for awhile now. But even that has its moments. I mean, there are definitely different ways to sneak past "bad guys."

#180 Posted by Spongetwan (202 posts) -

I am enjoying the game alot!!! And i love how you can go back through parts of the mission to perfect your score against friends. I like the game so far.

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