IO might be patching disguise detection system

#1 Posted by AssInAss (2598 posts) -

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=130441

If this happens, this automatically makes it a great Hitman game as I can finally do some experimentation on higher difficulties. It's ridiculous the distance you can be spotted at disguises, developers themselves said they should only worry when you're up close like older games. And masks/SWAT helmet is an issue, hope that gets fixed since no one should be able to spot you whenever.

This is the one legit flaw I'll agree with most on, otherwise absolutely loving the game (and fucking gorgeous on my middle-grade laptop).

#2 Posted by LKPOWER (154 posts) -

I agree... I have no problem with having to use instinct to make the disguises work but its kind of crazy when someone can see through your disguise from 20-30 feet away, at night in the pouring rain unless you burn though most of your valuable instinct while breaking their sight line. On the harder difficulties instinct is difficult to build up, so I think they should consider cutting the player some slack at long range. Other than that I like what the game has done. I appreciate the new cinematic feel.

#3 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

aaaaand that is why the last time I bought anything on day 1 was.. a long time ago. Always wait for the fixes that should've existed out of the box, both technical and gameplay-wise.

#4 Posted by eezo (284 posts) -

well, to be fair i had issues with it when i first started playing, but as you learn the range/speed of detection aswell as get more juice for your power meter it gets easier to walk past 10-15 guards undetected, so imo it shouldn't be necessary to change anything, if they do just make it go abit slower i guess

#5 Posted by Ethan_Raiden (341 posts) -

I'm glad that they're doing it but the drop off with games is pretty severe, I finished the game ones, did a few contracts, and I can't really see myself putting any more big chunks of time in with this game. While I was playing it the disguise issues didn't really jump out at me, but remembering what they were like in the older games, and hearing this news that they might make it better does make me a little happy.

#6 Edited by Nardak (470 posts) -

I think the game is otherwise pretty good but the disguise system is a bit weird. I dont understand how for example wearing a cop disguise immediatly makes all of the other cops suspicious of you.

On the other hand you can walk past cops in your normal hitman suit and none of them will be alarmed in the least. I dont remember that in the previous hitman games disguises worked this way.

One would think that going into certain areas or acting in a certain manner would make the npc´s suspicious but it seems like every cop/thug/food seller is suspicious at the same time immediatly after you use a disguise of a certain type.

#7 Posted by Demoskinos (14722 posts) -

I dont really care myself. I dont use disguises. Suit only is the best way to play in my opinion.

#8 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

It could really use a manual save system like the older Hitman games

#9 Posted by MildMolasses (3218 posts) -

No being familiar with the previous games, I was wondering what exactly the use of the disguises was since I seemed to be getting spotted all the time. It didn't seem to make a difference whether I was in a disguise or not, people would still recognise me for doing nothing other than walking around and I'd have to restart

#10 Posted by kishinfoulux (2277 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

No being familiar with the previous games, I was wondering what exactly the use of the disguises was since I seemed to be getting spotted all the time. It didn't seem to make a difference whether I was in a disguise or not, people would still recognise me for doing nothing other than walking around and I'd have to restart

You can generally go anywhere you want with a disguise. The only people that will recognize you are those of the same type. For example, if I'm disguised as an electrician, I can walk by most anybody without raising suspicion. However other electricians will be weary of me, since I'm guessing the logic is they would know their fellow co workers. It's something to consider when acquiring disguises. If the area I'm trying to sneak into has a bunch of cops in it, it'd be unwise to go in there with a cop disguise.

#11 Posted by Demoskinos (14722 posts) -

The disguises in past hitman games have made it almost TOO easy at times to walk around in restricted areas.

#12 Posted by 2HeadedNinja (1589 posts) -

It should be an easy tweak. Just make the line of sight shorter any maybe, depending on difficulty, the burn of instinct slower ... that would fix it imho.

#13 Posted by Soap (3575 posts) -

Are they going to patch it to be a Hitman game rather than a splinter cell game?... that'll be a pretty big patch. :D

#14 Posted by MildMolasses (3218 posts) -

@kishinfoulux said:

@MildMolasses said:

No being familiar with the previous games, I was wondering what exactly the use of the disguises was since I seemed to be getting spotted all the time. It didn't seem to make a difference whether I was in a disguise or not, people would still recognise me for doing nothing other than walking around and I'd have to restart

You can generally go anywhere you want with a disguise. The only people that will recognize you are those of the same type. For example, if I'm disguised as an electrician, I can walk by most anybody without raising suspicion. However other electricians will be weary of me, since I'm guessing the logic is they would know their fellow co workers. It's something to consider when acquiring disguises. If the area I'm trying to sneak into has a bunch of cops in it, it'd be unwise to go in there with a cop disguise.

I get that part, but it still didn't seem useful. Obviously walking right up to a cop while dressed as one isn't a good idea, but I feel like I should be able to move around the general area without arousing suspicion. I'm not saying I should have total immunity at that point, but it seems like there is no buffer zone at all. Any disguise I put on seems to draw attention in any situation.

#15 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

@kishinfoulux said:

@MildMolasses said:

No being familiar with the previous games, I was wondering what exactly the use of the disguises was since I seemed to be getting spotted all the time. It didn't seem to make a difference whether I was in a disguise or not, people would still recognise me for doing nothing other than walking around and I'd have to restart

You can generally go anywhere you want with a disguise. The only people that will recognize you are those of the same type. For example, if I'm disguised as an electrician, I can walk by most anybody without raising suspicion. However other electricians will be weary of me, since I'm guessing the logic is they would know their fellow co workers. It's something to consider when acquiring disguises. If the area I'm trying to sneak into has a bunch of cops in it, it'd be unwise to go in there with a cop disguise.

I get that part, but it still didn't seem useful. Obviously walking right up to a cop while dressed as one isn't a good idea, but I feel like I should be able to move around the general area without arousing suspicion. I'm not saying I should have total immunity at that point, but it seems like there is no buffer zone at all. Any disguise I put on seems to draw attention in any situation.

I think you might feel that way because you spend so much time evading cops in this game, so naturally you will usually end up in a cop uniform. That compounded with there being so fucking many of them in small areas, as well as their ability to see through your disguise from far away (stupid).

#16 Edited by Humanity (9015 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

No being familiar with the previous games, I was wondering what exactly the use of the disguises was since I seemed to be getting spotted all the time. It didn't seem to make a difference whether I was in a disguise or not, people would still recognise me for doing nothing other than walking around and I'd have to restart

Up until the third Hitman game if I'm remembering correctly, disguises were 100% fool proof. I know in Hitman 1 you could definitely dress up as anyone then run around, jump, get in anyones face, no one cared. I think thats also how it was in Hitman 2 but in Contracts I'm sure they started adding suspicion.

So in theory the way disguises should work is they should give you a pretty free hand with going about in restricted areas.

You'd basically setup some elaborate "accident" and then as your victim died of malfunctioning equipment you'd smoothly walk out in your disguise with no one paying you any mind or knowing you were ever there. It was a pretty great feeling.

#17 Posted by MildMolasses (3218 posts) -

@YOU_DIED: Very much so. And as such, they should patch that. If I want that kind of extreme challenge where I have to fight for every step I take, I'll put it on a higher difficulty. But given the game they made and the way I feel I'm supposed to be playing it, the need to help the player out a bit

#18 Edited by studnoth1n (222 posts) -

one way they could fix it would be to first reduce the detection range while wearing disguises. it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that the range for detecting your presence would be equivalent to the range of an enemy becoming suspicious of your disguise. not only should it be slower for the enemies to gradually see through your disguise, but they shouldn't even become suspicious until you're within an appropriate range. if they could just reduce the range, i think that would be enough of an improvement, that it would at least make a little more sense when using the mechanic.

another way to fix it would be to incorporate the direction of detection relative to player's frontside or face. oddly enough, this is already used in the game, specifically when you're in a crowd of people, you can look away from an enemy to essentially "reset" their detection of you. again, if they could utilize this direction of detection while in disguise, i think it would make a lot more sense. perhaps it doesn't necessarily rest enemy suspicion of your disguise, at least until you break line of sight, but it could slow their suspicion enough allowing for a hasty retreat.

also, the devs should have better distinguished between enemy detection and suspicion. coupling the two together under one mechanic makes things simpler to be sure, but it also drains some of the suspense from the game. while wearing a disguise, sometimes you're forced to sneak around when in close proximity to enemies in order to manage their suspicion/detection levels. not only does this feel contrived, but it effectively removes most of the tension from the situation. now obviously this change would require something to be added to the game, so this is more or less a criticism of the dev's foresight given what they know, or at least what they SHOULD know about what works within the hitman formula.

unfortunately, i'm not too optimistic about the detection system being tweaked or improved upon, since these changes would unavoidably make the "blend" mechanic less necessary, which it really should't be. blending should be as superfluous as marking and executing, which allows you to add a bit of "flavor" to the game, but nothing you would ever been dependent upon. basically, if you have enough instinct, rather than herding enemies around, or taking a more circuitous path through a level, you could just walk right past a group of enemies blocking a doorway or an objective allowing you a more direct approach without giving up the stealth. i think the devs may have, unintentionally, made the blending mechanic more compulsory to stealth play. if they could just loosen up on the detection system a bit, i think they'd have a better balance overall.

#19 Posted by SlashDance (1812 posts) -

I don't mind the detection range. 47 is kinda hard to miss with his shiny bald head. I always hated in previous Hitman games when a guard saw me enter a room with my fancy suit and come out dressed as a construction worker without suspecting anything. It's assuredly not perfect as it is, but I applaud IO for trying to address that.

What I would love is for the range/speed of detection to vary depending on the quality of the disguise. If I wear a hat and a pair of sunglasses I should probably be able to blend more easily.

#20 Posted by hbkdx12 (779 posts) -
@MildMolasses: The only other hitman game that i have experience with is Blood Money and the way disguises worked there was that there was a very clear and evident hierarchy of the costumes and their usefulness. For example, there was this one level in the suburbs where you had to kill this guy and his wife who are on witness protection and on this particular day they're throwing a party for their kid. There are various people in the level all doing different things and playing different roles. There's a bunch of FBI guys in and around the house because they're under witness protection. There's caterers bringing food into the house for the party and there's a clown entertainer who also setting up. As well as garbage man down the block taking out neighbors trash. Normal day in the suburbs some might suggest, 
 
Now, you could kill/subdue the caterer and use that disguise to get access to the house but once you get access to the house, your access is limited because your just a caterer. So for example, there's be no reason for you to be upstairs or in the pool-house. Same thing with the clown. Obviously the best disguise to get would be an FBI agents as it grants you unrestricted access to everything. But the thing is that trying to find that top tier disguise was usually pretty hard (although it wasn't in this particular level) because the person you were taking it from was of great importance. So it was kind of like a puzzle within a puzzle in that you had to figure out the best way to get to and kill your target but also finding the best disguise that would get you there on the path of least resistance. It was a good system but i can see why they would try to tweak it because if you knew what you were looking for, all it would take was one good disguise to essentially make the rest of the level a cake walk
 
 @Demoskinos: I would be wrong to try and deny that having the right disguise made things way easier, however, with the way things work now, being that there's no single disguise that's good enough, i find myself "gaming" the game a lot as oppose to being "one" with the world and the environment. For example, in the strip club level, after you kill the first guy you have to make your way back stage and up to the second floor. Being that it's backstage, only staff members are allowed back there. So anything other than a bouncer disguise is going to instantly get you spotted for trespassing but even having a bouncer disguise means that all the people back there are going to be looking at you funny and trying to see through you disguise. There are two people talking by the stairs that you have to use to reach the second floor. You either A) burn your instinct meter trying to get past them to get up the stairs B) systematically lure them out of the room and away from the stairwell one after the other and ultimately pacify or kill them or C) wait for them to exhaust their conversation before the scripting kicks in for them to move away  from the stairs. Situations like this is where the disguise systems seems really stupid and silly.
#21 Posted by Intro (1206 posts) -

I agree, glad to see that. I'm loving this game by the way.

#22 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

Unless that patch is going "how do we make this game more like Blood Money, oh I know let's rip the detection code straight from that game", you can count the amount of fucks I give on zero hands.

#23 Posted by JayEH (521 posts) -

You know the game is broken is broken when you're in a Chipmunk suit and you get detected in a crowded marketplace

#24 Edited by realph (257 posts) -

My biggest problem with the Hitman games up until now, and I've loved every game since Silent Assassin, is the disguise system. I sort of gave IO a pass in previous games, but I find it hard to believe they've yet to fix this mechanic at this point.

Like the gang said on the latest Bombcast, if I take on the guise of a delivery man, or a cleaner, how am I then automatically flagged as suspicious?

#25 Edited by Meltac (2000 posts) -

So have they fixed this yet, or is the date of the patch still TBA?

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