Soo....how about that trans/homosexual dialogue (slight spoilers)

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#51 Posted by Demoskinos (14564 posts) -

Being offended by this is the same thing as saying Quentin Tarintino is a racist asshole because his character in Pulp Fiction spouted the "N-word" in extremely offensive ways. There are actually scenes in the game that I was nearly genuinely disturbed by. Some of the characters in the game are SUCH fucking psychopathic scumbags that it makes 47 who is a fucking assassin look like a saint.

And I don't know why we are seemingly getting offended by this now this is all par for the course in Hitman games they have ALWAYS been littered with the worst of the worst scum humanity has to offer. All of the games have extremely dark undertones in many of the levels and its all to flesh out the world and make it feel like the cess pit that the developers wanted to convey it as. This isn't IO saying that its funny to say shitty things about minority groups and treat women like objects this is them writing dialog for a story the same way Quentin Tarintino has often very very vulgar offensive language in his movies. I'm sure the upcoming Django Unchained is going to be a hot bed for awful racist language but it NEEDS to be in the movie they need to portray the slave owners as the scumbags they are.

#52 Edited by Sneeze (89 posts) -

This is probably the most dumb discussion ever. 
It's a game. A video game.  
  
There's probably also fat jokes in there? Should they be offended? What about bald people? People wearing hats? 
Can we pleeeeaase stop feeling offended on behalf of other people, when there's clearly no reason for this.  

#53 Posted by MiniPato (2721 posts) -

Why do people complain about this shit in videogames and not in movies? You get people calling eachother homosexual slurs and racial slurs all the time in films like in mobster movies, even by the protagonists. Don't see the issue just cause it's a videogame.

As people said, it's asshole dialogue for asshole characters.

#54 Posted by Zombifreak (28 posts) -

@MiniPato: Because the fresh out of college liberal feminists love watching their romantic comedies.

#55 Posted by Nadril (523 posts) -

So... a bad character says something bad? Should we not allow a racist movie villain to say "nigger" because it's racist? I'm amazed there is even a discussion here. Just because a character in a game says something doesn't mean the developers agree with what was said.

#56 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

You guys really just need to harden the fuck up, it's not like you live in the Muslim world were you would get killed for dressing like a women, you live in a western society and if all you got to handle is a bit of humour directed towards you, you got it pretty good. Everyone gets made fun of in this world, fat people, skinny people, black people, asians, mexicans, muslims, blondes, old people and smelly people but god forbid we point fun at a dude in a dress.

Nothing about this dialogue is offensive or hateful, it's just some banter between people in a strip club in a video game.

#57 Posted by Cretaceous_Bob (504 posts) -

Pointing out one offensive thing in a game crammed with offensive things is just admitting that you don't give a shit about people being offensive.

The Hitman games have always been completely stuffed with the most vile characters and vile dialog because it'd be way more disturbing if you went around murdering nice, well-adjusted, polite, sensitive people.

Here's a challenge: write some good, funny dialog for a character that is supposed to antagonize the player, but don't offend anyone.

#58 Edited by Cretaceous_Bob (504 posts) -

@BisonHero said:

@IzzyGraze: Yeah, I'm not like outraged by what they say, but it's just so lazy. It's like "...Yeah, I get it. Looks like a lady, has a penis, that incongruity is supposed to be instant comedy". But I'm not fucking 10 years old anymore, and I sure hope 10-year-olds aren't the sole demographic that IO Interactive is writing their games towards. Though the reviews are blasting the character, dialogue, and plot in Absolution so hard that maybe they are writing something that only 10-year-olds can appreciate.

Also, the target randomly calling you a transsexual because Agent 47 was crouching is just like "Huh? What? ...Why?" Are transsexuals known for their Sam-Fisher-like stealth crouching?

Hitman has always been full of really bad dialog that is supposed to piss you off. Which do you think would be better in the game about fucking strangling dudes: 1) if every word that came out of dudes' mouths made you want to strangle them, 2) if you were pretty okay with dudes, and really kind of wonder why you're even strangling them in the first place?

#59 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

Well that's stupid.

#60 Posted by TheHT (10891 posts) -

Dude, I'm actually kinda impressed they have that contextual dialogue in there.

Yeah, it's offensive, but I imagine that was the characters point.

#61 Posted by HulkHanson (73 posts) -

BAN THIS SICK FILTH. CROUCHING VERMIN. But, nah really, it's a Hitman game. Not saying it should be encouraged, but everywhere in this game is pretty fucking messed up in some way. Maybe IO have some agenda against transexuals, eh? Where's Klepek when you need him?

#62 Edited by MindOST (215 posts) -

I probably shouldn't even bother but...

I know trans people who are literally afraid to go out to clubs or bars because they might get the shit kicked out of them by some small-minded scumbags for being trans. How many bald people get jumped for being bald? It's not exactly the same thing.

I actually haven't played Hitman, so I don't know the context, but transsexuals are almost exclusively played off as freaks or as comic relief in pop culture. It's hard to say "Oh, it's just a joke, get over it" when the constant jokes are a very real problem.

I'm sure the game makers didn't really mean anything by it and on it's own it's not a big deal but context is everything. Making a joke against against a group that hasn't been seriously discriminated against in the collective cultural memory isn't like insulting a group who are or have recently been marginalized by those same jokes. Words DO have meaning and weight. I know that's difficult to understand for a large majority of people on these boards >_>

(This isn't really about Hitman, and more about the people saying that words don't matter.)

#63 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Again such a fucking stupid complaint, like the bullshit PETA complain about. Your dressed as a women in a strip club full of bad guys...They are not nice people DEAL WITH IT!

#64 Posted by BisonHero (6198 posts) -
@Milkman
I'm more confused than anything. Do transsexuals crouch a lot? What?
EXACTLY. What the fuck does that line even mean?
#65 Posted by Twinsun (468 posts) -

How about fighting for the rights of transgendered people in real life instead of wasting time with a throw-away line in a videogame.

Perspective please.

#66 Posted by TheHT (10891 posts) -

@BisonHero said:

@Milkman
I'm more confused than anything. Do transsexuals crouch a lot? What?
EXACTLY. What the fuck does that line even mean?

Peeing.

#67 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

@HulkHanson said:

BAN THIS SICK FILTH. CROUCHING VERMIN. But, nah really, it's a Hitman game. Not saying it should be encouraged, but everywhere in this game is pretty fucking messed up in some way. Maybe IO have some agenda against transexuals, eh? Where's Klepek when you need him?

I still don't understand why people extrapolate things like this into 'oh that must be what the studio thinks of __________, what a bunch of dicks'. No County for Old Men portrayed a sociopathic merciless killer, but do people think the Coen brothers or McCarthy are advocating that kind of behavior?

#68 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

@FancySoapsMan said:

eh, it's silly but I don't relly think it's offensive.

getting offended over things like this is pointless.

YUP. "See this hair on my lip" offends you? Good lord. Eyeroll extraordinaire.

#69 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -

Ain't you gonna lock this one too, mod?

Just close the threads, that will surely help.

#70 Posted by KillerClaw (64 posts) -

The basis of this argument is that they believe that this never should have been in the game in the first place, that it was wrong for them to put it in. By complaining, you imply that you want it to be changed. Everyone has a right to be offended, but when you come out and complain in an open forum you open yourself up to criticism from people like me. Freedom of speech is, or at least should be, absolute.

#71 Posted by Tonyyj (141 posts) -
#72 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@BisonHero said:

Also, the target randomly calling you a transsexual because Agent 47 was crouching is just like "Huh? What? ...Why?" Are transsexuals known for their Sam-Fisher-like stealth crouching?

I guess they should be called... Transtealthuals!
#73 Edited by Beforet (2912 posts) -

I don't know the line or the context or the anything. Hell, I'm not even responding to the actual topic here. I'm responding to the peeps saying it's just a video game, doesn't affect anything, etc. I know it's hard to realize, because who the fuck cares about video games, but media does have an affect on people and their perceptions on the world and other people. It's a big part of this "society" thing people keep blaming, and that includes games. I know that it seems weird to put any weight on something in a video game, but it can have an affect and these things do deserve some scrutiny. Again, making no judgments on the line or game, just my two cents on responses I've been seeing in this thread.

#74 Posted by Kierkegaard (579 posts) -

@MindOST said:

I probably shouldn't even bother but...

I know trans people who are literally afraid to go out to clubs or bars because they might get the shit kicked out of them by some small-minded scumbags for being trans. How many bald people get jumped for being bald? It's not exactly the same thing.

I actually haven't played Hitman, so I don't know the context, but transsexuals are almost exclusively played off as freaks or as comic relief in pop culture. It's hard to say "Oh, it's just a joke, get over it" when the constant jokes are a very real problem.

I'm sure the game makers didn't really mean anything by it and on it's own it's not a big deal but context is everything. Making a joke against against a group that hasn't been seriously discriminated against in the collective cultural memory isn't like insulting a group who are or have recently been marginalized by those same jokes. Words DO have meaning and weight. I know that's difficult to understand for a large majority of people on these boards >_>

(This isn't really about Hitman, and more about the people saying that words don't matter.)

You are correct.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Again such a fucking stupid complaint, like the bullshit PETA complain about. Your dressed as a women in a strip club full of bad guys...They are not nice people DEAL WITH IT!

@YOU_DIED said:

@HulkHanson said:

BAN THIS SICK FILTH. CROUCHING VERMIN. But, nah really, it's a Hitman game. Not saying it should be encouraged, but everywhere in this game is pretty fucking messed up in some way. Maybe IO have some agenda against transexuals, eh? Where's Klepek when you need him?

I still don't understand why people extrapolate things like this into 'oh that must be what the studio thinks of __________, what a bunch of dicks'. No County for Old Men portrayed a sociopathic merciless killer, but do people think the Coen brothers or McCarthy are advocating that kind of behavior?

@murisan said:

@FancySoapsMan said:

eh, it's silly but I don't relly think it's offensive.

getting offended over things like this is pointless.

YUP. "See this hair on my lip" offends you? Good lord. Eyeroll extraordinaire.

@KillerClaw said:

The basis of this argument is that they believe that this never should have been in the game in the first place, that it was wrong for them to put it in. By complaining, you imply that you want it to be changed. Everyone has a right to be offended, but when you come out and complain in an open forum you open yourself up to criticism from people like me. Freedom of speech is, or at least should be, absolute.

You all are incorrect.

Argument solved.

Just to be clear and concise, noting the existence of unnecessary offensive material in a game you still like does not make you racist, sexist, or homophobic. Recognizing the reality of derogation in media is, in many ways, the most important step. Calling out a bully is the first way to discourage bullying.

#75 Posted by envane (1159 posts) -

to say that any depcition of a transexual character is making fun of tansexuals underlies the self conciousness of said transexual/transgender person .. if they were mocking the transexual character rather than merely mentioning their existance , then mabye would actually be "tasteless" , but i see that and the homosexual comments as the hitman devs being inclusive to gay people with their weird european humor , the earlier games have had plenty of sexual references but generally its women saying OOH WHAT A SEXY MAN ( i mean in hitman 1 and 2 there was this big boobed chick you had to rescue on some levels , and she basicly spoke in the "me so horny , me love you long time" way.

now every group has the ability to hear cheesy humor thats trying to cater to them in a failed way ...

thank god they removed the guy fucking the pig with a cop watching for fun from the game (watch the 18min streets of hope preview ) .. wouldnt want to offend pig fuckers

honestly ppl from south dakota need to be offended here hehe.

#76 Posted by envane (1159 posts) -

and i didnt mean to imply that trans people are just too self concious etc .. i undertsand the stupidity of that statement if you take it as broadly as it looks.

but what i actually meant was , you are pretty overtly offendable if that's all it took , reading "im actually a dude, check out this moustache" .. i understand it goes against the notion of a trangendered persons sexual identity , but frankly , only you know that , and you are making a blanket statement for all male to female transgendered if you say thats how they think ( i dont see anyone going thru that procedure still wanting to identify as a dude but its not out of the realm of possibility ) .

i apologize if i seem insensitive , im clearly not an expert on these things , but as a straigt person i didnt take the comments as some AMAZING JOKE , nor did i feel any sorta urge to be politically correct when i myself was roleplaying a murderer.

i understand and i feel bad that people cant seperate these things and then do act upon or say some reallly horrible shit , purely out of intolerance of something or someone different , i live in a country town despite being striaght and knowing it myself , i have long hair , and therefore to some rednecks , im a f***** ladyboy (their words) , i think if they had touched upon that attitude with the rednecks in the game , it would be hideously offensive (hence them removing the cop berating the guy fucking a pig , he called them "brokeback brothers" which is pretty offensive to gay people i woudl assume because its implying that fucking a pig is normal homosexual behavior)

sorry if my rambling and poor communication has caused any more issues or offended anyone.

honsetly its a subject we all wish we could weigh in on but only some ppl are actually qualified to comment (not me tbh)

#77 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7051 posts) -
@envane

to say that any depcition of a transexual character is making fun of tansexuals underlies the self conciousness of said transexual/transgender person .. if they were mocking the transexual character rather than merely mentioning their existance , then mabye would actually be "tasteless" , but i see that and the homosexual comments as the hitman devs being inclusive to gay people with their weird european humor , the earlier games have had plenty of sexual references but generally its women saying OOH WHAT A SEXY MAN ( i mean in hitman 1 and 2 there was this big boobed chick you had to rescue on some levels , and she basicly spoke in the "me so horny , me love you long time" way.

now every group has the ability to hear cheesy humor thats trying to cater to them in a failed way ...

thank god they removed the guy fucking the pig with a cop watching for fun from the game (watch the 18min streets of hope preview ) .. wouldnt want to offend pig fuckers

honestly ppl from south dakota need to be offended here hehe.

As a guy who recently moved to South Dakota, why am I supposed to be offended? DID 47 BLOW UP MOUNT RUSHMORE AGAIN?!
#78 Posted by envane (1159 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre: well pretty much anyone from hope is an extreme redneck or some sorta rockabilly fonzie type (whats with that anyway) .. i guess theres some "normal" people in the levels but thats where i noticed the majority of blatant stereotypes.

#79 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7051 posts) -
@envane

@MariachiMacabre: well pretty much anyone from hope is an extreme redneck or some sorta rockabilly fonzie type (whats with that anyway) .. i guess theres some "normal" people in the levels but thats where i noticed the majority of blatant stereotypes.

Well Hope is apparently supposed to be in Brown County but that's Aberdeen, where my parents were from. I don't think Hope is a real place but if its' supposed to be like Aberdeen, having it be full of rednecks and hicks and trashy people sounds about right.
#80 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -
#81 Edited by Kyreo (4600 posts) -

Who fucking cares?

#82 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2990 posts) -

these are characters yes? take it in that context.

#83 Posted by prestonhedges (1965 posts) -

All the people saying "Don't get offended, moron" are probably the same people who shout the n-word on XBox Live over and over. Glad to see something offends you.

#84 Posted by JasonR86 (9609 posts) -

I made a comment earlier but what the fuck I'll just add a little more. I haven't played the game. But hearing this just makes me roll my eyes at the stupidity of it. I guess it adds atmosphere but I would rather not experience that atmosphere. I'm not offended exactly but I find it dumb. So I won't support the product by not buying it. Done and done.

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