Devs request that pirates updates their torrents

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#1 Posted by Sweep (9752 posts) -

Jonatan Soderstrom has requested that videogame pirates update their torrents to include a patched version of the game. Source. He posted the following on a thread beneath a torrent on one of the larger file-sharing sites:

“We're working on an update that hopefully will take care of any/all bugs, and we'll try to do some extra polish in the next few days. Would be great if you could update the torrent when the patch is out! It'd be great if people get to play it without any bugs popping up.”

And later went on twitter to clarify his decision:

"I don't really want people to pirate Hotline Miami, but I understand if they do. I've been broke the last couple of months. It sucks."

— Jonatan Söderström (@cactusquid) October 25, 2012
And I definitely want people to experience the game the way it's meant to be experienced. No matter how they got a hold of it.
— Jonatan Söderström (@cactusquid) October 25, 2012

I don't pirate games for reasons that I won't go into here (I'd rather avoid that debate), but just reading this instantly earned these guys a lot of respect and made me want to give them some money for their obvious efforts to make their game as accessible as possible.

Thoughts?

PS I should probably mention that the advocation of piracy is against forum rules. While it's fine to discuss piracy on a hypothetical basis, anyone caught promoting torrent websites or discussing their illegal theivery techniques will be subject to moderation. This is the only warning you are going to get in this thread. x

Moderator
#2 Posted by Ravenlight (8057 posts) -

Damn, this guy is pretty cool. I'm definitely buying Hotline Miami now.

#3 Posted by BeachThunder (13306 posts) -

Much better position to take than aggressively hounding people with letters threatening legal-action...

Online
#4 Posted by twigger89 (318 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

Damn, this guy is pretty cool. I'm definitely buying Hotline Miami now.

Yeah, this guy needs to be supported. As soon as I get some cash I'm throwing it at this guy and the star citizen game.

#5 Posted by Drakoji (243 posts) -

Yeah this is cool, I'll admit that I've had to perform some act of dark magick to get Hotline Miami because I'm kinda broke right now, But I'll buy it just because of those tweets when I get more funds.

#6 Posted by Bumpton (484 posts) -

I approve of this man.

#7 Posted by jozzy (2053 posts) -

Cool I guess, but this is not a requirement for me to support a developer. I can totally understand developers that hate it so much when their hard work gets torrented for free, and I will not punish them for it.

#8 Posted by Brodehouse (10652 posts) -
@BeachThunder

Much better position to take than aggressively hounding people with letters threatening legal-action...

It's a position you only take if you lack the ability to defend your own work from pirates.
#9 Posted by impartialgecko (1768 posts) -

I like this guy. But I pay for my games in order for there to be more games.

#10 Posted by Phatmac (5921 posts) -

Cool, but I'm all for devs being against piracy. These devs spend years working so damn hard and all they ask for is 10$. Gaming is a luxury hobby so I'm all for devs doing whatever they have to in order to stop it. The best way to do this is to make the process of paying for a game to be easy instead of a hassle.

#11 Posted by murisan (1143 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

Cool, but I'm all for devs being against piracy. These devs spend years working so damn hard and all they ask for is 10$. Gaming is a luxury hobby so I'm all for devs doing whatever they have to in order to stop it. The best way to do this is to make the process of paying for a game to be easy instead of a hassle.

Pretty sure this game took a few months if Patrick's information regarding Cactus in the TNT was correct. I'd still like to know when the patch is coming out...

#12 Posted by two_socks (265 posts) -

I think it's awesome that he is so forgiving about something like this. This game has a ton of hype (and so it totally should, it's great) and for him to come out and be like this is probably one of the best ways to combat piracy. I'd imagine people who DO pirate his game are going to see this and be more supportive of him/his stuff either now or in the future.

#13 Posted by Toxeia (744 posts) -

@Phatmac: $10 and on Steam is about as hassle free as you can get without giving it away free. He's taken the right stance on piracy. Some people use it as a demo to figure out whether or not it's worth putting money towards that game, and he wants them to have the best experience possible so they'll be more likely to put out.

#14 Posted by Warchief (671 posts) -

Will buy because that is an awesome way to handle it.

#15 Posted by Ramone (3076 posts) -

That's pretty funny but if you don't buy a game as good as Hotline Miami for $10 and pirate it instead you're a piece of shit.

#16 Posted by Fire_Of_The_Wind (193 posts) -

This reminded me of this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-08-mcpixel-is-the-first-game-endorsed-by-the-pirate-bay

#17 Posted by Fattony12000 (7969 posts) -

Yup, being passionate, up front, honest and showing that you care about your product goes a long way to getting a community to stay on your side. Hopefully that community grows and grows and the number of people who buy the game goes up, whilst the number who steal it goes down.

DO NOT STEAL VIDEO GAMES.

#18 Posted by SeanFoster (913 posts) -

If I'd read something like that in my pirating days (Hey, I was broke!) I'd have felt like a real jackass. Reminds me of Louis C.K.'s approach to piracy.

#19 Posted by NoobSauceG7 (1332 posts) -

That's kinda insane. Definitely something you don't seen everyday.

#20 Posted by VierasTalo (1103 posts) -

That's cool. Suits the game in a way. It sort of feels like a statement to an extent rather than "just" a game, so it'd make sense for the artist to feel this way about getting the word out there.

#21 Posted by SomeJerk (3732 posts) -

Many Swedes are basically Canadians, and I love those people, as much as I wish they could be more fair to themselves.
 
(Game purchased since today was my pay day. I've paid more for less.)

#22 Posted by pyromagnestir (4386 posts) -

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

#23 Posted by Animasta (14824 posts) -

@pyromagnestir: broke kids mainly.

#24 Posted by pyromagnestir (4386 posts) -

@Animasta: Well tell those kids to get a fucking job! Just keep their immature asses out of grocery stores, restaurants and any other place that deals with food. I want my food without urine or spit, thank you very much!

#25 Posted by Sweep (9752 posts) -

@pyromagnestir said:

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

I think the majority of people who pirate games do so not based on principles but because they are broke. Studies have shown that making it harder to pirate the game doesn't necessarily equal more sales, it just means less people play your game. There are a lot of kids out there who pirate games for this reason. I used to be one of them. One day these kids will have jobs and it will be easier for them to just buy the shit that they want - a process which will undoubtedly be sped up by their respect for the developer.

I don't think there is anyone out there who is saying "I was going to buy the game but if they are going to support the torrent then I will just pirate it instead."

Unless they are fucking scumbags, obviously....

Moderator
#26 Edited by pyromagnestir (4386 posts) -

@Sweep: Well, I was just saying I think us being mostly all "Grrr... Pirates suck!" whenever that sort of thread pops up but being all "Yay developer!" when one does something nice for pirates is kinda funny, and not worried about someone running out and pirating this game because "the developer said it's ok" or something, now. Although I'm sure someone did just that. But maybe just the one someone. And again that's not really my concern.

But in my experience I had several friends who pirated when I was younger, but my brother and I didn't. Those friends have jobs and money now but still pirate (not every game, but I'll still here about how they torrented so and so game for the lame excuses I wrote in my prior post, or other excuses) and I still don't even though I'm a jobless student (I do have some money saved up from a prior job).

I'm pretty sure my brother still gets his games the same way he did then, with my parents money.

#27 Posted by Animasta (14824 posts) -

@pyromagnestir: well, it's like... many of us remember a time of being broke kids who pirated because they didn't have the money for a job. and even if you don't have that experience, going after young kids who torrent like that does nothing for you beyond terrorizing children.

#28 Posted by BBAlpert (1859 posts) -

I can't really say that this will make me buy it instead of pirating, since I wasn't planning on pirating it in the first place. But I do think that it may make me buy it sooner rather than waiting for the next 70-85% off Steam sale.

#29 Edited by pyromagnestir (4386 posts) -

@Animasta: I'm pro terrorizing children. Teenagers especially. If it were up to me all teenagers would spend 12 hours a day at school, and follow that up with 4 hours at their jobs (the only jobs a teenager is worthy of, in my opinion, is cleaning public restrooms, particularly those at gas stations and/or strip clubs) then get home for curfew to sleep and do it all again the next day. If they do good, maybe I'd let them have a Tuesday off every once in a while. But weekends they school and work!

But really I just wanted to make what I thought was a funny observation about this site and pirates... I'm not advocating cracking down on pirates. Cracking down on teenagers in general though? That I could advocate.

#30 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (4012 posts) -

@pyromagnestir: I'm fully on board with persecuting teenagers. Teenagers are, by and large, idiots. I was a teenage idiot once.

Also this seems like a pretty good way to get some good will from pirates and legit buyers alike. No point getting mad and railing at people who aren't gonna change how they do things anyway. I don't agree with piracy but I like the sentiment of "if you're gonna steal my game, play it how it should be played".

#31 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1795 posts) -

Well, it's final. I'm going to have to buy the game at some point when I have money... But I definitely want to play it at some point. That quick look, man. That one house track that kept playing was really entrancing!

#32 Posted by BaconGames (3834 posts) -

I think people are positive not because he's supporting piracy/pirates but became he's embracing the reality that there is a big audience of people playing his game that developers and publishers otherwise ignore because they pirated the game. So he just wants anyone who plays his game to play it at its best, which is an authorship thing that I totally get. Besides he's not going to put any actual work into doing this, just putting it out there for pirates themselves to do the work they are already doing. I think in being frank that while piracy does cost him at the end of the day from a lot of individuals, that's not all who pirate the game and if also garners some major press/goodwill along the way he only stands to benefit.

#33 Posted by SargeGulp (245 posts) -

Internet seems to equate to entitlement. If you truly cared about obtaining a game, being fair to those who developed the product, and the medium in general (any medium) you would pay for what you wanted to own. Instead people make half ass excuses as to why they're entitled to have it, for free.

@TheSouthernDandy: I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that they should have an equal experience to someone who paid for it. I'm not sure of the logic here, it's generous to be sure. But if you got the content via an illegal act your experience should be broken.

#34 Edited by WickedCobra03 (2211 posts) -

I think I have to pick it up on GOG. Though... I dunno why, but I have a weird suspicion this is going to end up in an indie bundle or something. I am not agaisnt buying it now, just after the botanicula thing, I feel a little raw.

#35 Posted by Ubersmake (771 posts) -

In the end, it really helps the developer. If someone pirates the game who would have bought or is planning to buy the game, and gets turned off because that game wasn't/couldn't be patched, that's a lost sale.

#36 Posted by doobie (612 posts) -

@Sweep said:

@pyromagnestir said:

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

I think the majority of people who pirate games do so not based on principles but because they are broke. Studies have shown that making it harder to pirate the game doesn't necessarily equal more sales, it just means less people play your game. There are a lot of kids out there who pirate games for this reason. I used to be one of them. One day these kids will have jobs and it will be easier for them to just buy the shit that they want - a process which will undoubtedly be sped up by their respect for the developer.

I don't think there is anyone out there who is saying "I was going to buy the game but if they are going to support the torrent then I will just pirate it instead."

Unless they are fucking scumbags, obviously....

even so, pirates laugh at you for buying your games. they think were idiots. and they are the reason we have shit like DRM.

the word pirate is a little too cool for them. we should call them what they really are Parasites.

#37 Posted by Milkman (18008 posts) -

This guy is awesome for this but if you pirate a game this good, that's only 10 bucks and made by essentially two dudes, you're fucking scum and I hope you get hit by a bus.

#38 Posted by MideonNViscera (2269 posts) -

Well these guys are certainly realists, if anything.

#39 Posted by TheHumanDove (2521 posts) -

Its good to be a pirate!

#40 Edited by Tennmuerti (8515 posts) -

@pyromagnestir said:

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

While the site and it's users are against piracy. We have been able to freely and maturely discuss the subject on these forums all the time, this is not new. And people are reacting positively to the developer, not to piracy itself. This is an important differentiator to make. There are plenty of people who hate intrusive DRM, and value developers making nice gestures and being realistic.

@doobie said:

even so, pirates laugh at you for buying your games. they think were idiots. and they are the reason we have shit like DRM.

the word pirate is a little too cool for them. we should call them what they really are Parasites.

We should be and generally are above such petty things and insults, if certain pirates think in those immature terms, let them, it's no skin off our back. As long as this attitude is not brought here; if it is then they will find themselves with a warning or banned quite swiftly (and have been). Piracy and pirates are common terms. There is no need for derogatory insults, or that would make us the immature assholes too.

@SargeGulp said:

@TheSouthernDandy: I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that they should have an equal experience to someone who paid for it. I'm not sure of the logic here, it's generous to be sure. But if you got the content via an illegal act your experience should be broken.

The logic here is that he basically gets free good publicity and goodwill of both pirates and legit buyers. And also general publicity as a whole (via news like this). Resulting in more sales overall. This is a viable approach for small developers who stand almost nothing to loose and everything to gain. It's the idea from the viewpoint of the developer (not from a moral standpoint), he can't stop it, by by doing this he can potentially stand to gain much.

#41 Posted by Hero_Swe (1264 posts) -

@doobie said:

@Sweep said:

@pyromagnestir said:

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

I think the majority of people who pirate games do so not based on principles but because they are broke. Studies have shown that making it harder to pirate the game doesn't necessarily equal more sales, it just means less people play your game. There are a lot of kids out there who pirate games for this reason. I used to be one of them. One day these kids will have jobs and it will be easier for them to just buy the shit that they want - a process which will undoubtedly be sped up by their respect for the developer.

I don't think there is anyone out there who is saying "I was going to buy the game but if they are going to support the torrent then I will just pirate it instead."

Unless they are fucking scumbags, obviously....

even so, pirates laugh at you for buying your games. they think were idiots. and they are the reason we have shit like DRM.

the word pirate is a little too cool for them. we should call them what they really are Parasites.

Actually I'm laughing at you right now.

#42 Posted by doobie (612 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@pyromagnestir said:

Is it a little weird that while we seem to be a a site quite strongly against pirating, whenever a dev makes a nice gesture to pirates we react positively to that? I mean, pirates are still largely dickwads right? Are they mostly people who could afford the game but don't buy it out of some weird sense of "it's not stealing" or "I wasn't going to pay for it anyway," or are they mostly broke kids trying to get some games?

While the site and it's users are against piracy. We have been able to freely and maturely disgus the subject on these forums all the time, this is not new. And people are reacting positively to the developer, not to piracy itself. This is an important differentiator to make. There are plenty of people who hate intrusive DRM, and value developers making nice gestures and being realistic.

@doobie said:

even so, pirates laugh at you for buying your games. they think were idiots. and they are the reason we have shit like DRM.

the word pirate is a little too cool for them. we should call them what they really are Parasites.

We should be and generally are above such petty things and insults, if certain pirates think in those immature terms, let them, it's no skin off our back. As long as this attitude is not brought here; if it is then they will find themselves with a warning or banned quite swiftly (and have been). Piracy and pirates are common terms. There is no need for derogatory insults, or that would make us the immature assholes too.

@SargeGulp said:

@TheSouthernDandy: I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that they should have an equal experience to someone who paid for it. I'm not sure of the logic here, it's generous to be sure. But if you got the content via an illegal act your experience should be broken.

The logic here is that he basically gets free good publicity and goodwill of both pirates and legit buyers. And also general publicity as a whole (via news like this). Resulting in more sales overall. This is a viable approach for small developers who stand almost nothing to loose and everything to gain. It's the idea from the viewpoint of the developer (not from a moral standpoint), he can't stop it, by by doing this he can potentially stand to gain much.

im not being derogatory i saying exactly what they are. they take with out giving anything back. its not meant to be an insult.

#43 Posted by Jimbo (10269 posts) -

I don't support developers who attempt to legitimise piracy as a choice. They might be ok with it, but I'm not.

If you can't afford some luxury item you are perfectly entitled to not own it. You aren't entitled to expect other people who have made the choice to work harder / smarter / longer than you to subsidise it for you, which is what happens when I pay my share towards development and you choose to steal a copy. Living in the UK, I have enough people with their hand in my pocket as it is - I don't need to hear game devs telling people it's ok to behave like that.

#44 Posted by Sackmanjones (5217 posts) -

So are they saying they don't care if I pirate the game?

#45 Posted by Sackmanjones (5217 posts) -
@Sackmanjones
So are they saying they don't care if I pirate the game?
I should note I have no intention of pirating the game but when developers do shit like this it is almost a free pass to pirate it. That's fine that you accept your game is gonna get stolen but doing stuff like this almost gives people the go ahead to pirate it
#46 Edited by Tennmuerti (8515 posts) -

@doobie said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@doobie said:

even so, pirates laugh at you for buying your games. they think were idiots. and they are the reason we have shit like DRM.

the word pirate is a little too cool for them. we should call them what they really are Parasites.

We should be and generally are above such petty things and insults, if certain pirates think in those immature terms, let them, it's no skin off our back. As long as this attitude is not brought here; if it is then they will find themselves with a warning or banned quite swiftly (and have been). Piracy and pirates are common terms. There is no need for derogatory insults, or that would make us the immature assholes too.

im not being derogatory i saying exactly what they are. they take with out giving anything back. its not meant to be an insult.

Whether it is meant as such or not is irrelevant. It is a derogatory term.

#47 Posted by Ubersmake (771 posts) -

@Sackmanjones said:

@Sackmanjones
So are they saying they don't care if I pirate the game?
I should note I have no intention of pirating the game but when developers do shit like this it is almost a free pass to pirate it. That's fine that you accept your game is gonna get stolen but doing stuff like this almost gives people the go ahead to pirate it

I don't think it's a free pass. After seeing the game crash during the quick look, I feel that a move like this is more in line with protecting the perceived technical quality of the game. Which would ultimately protect sales of the game, because talk about the game crashing on every other configuration would probably cause people on the fence about buying the game to not buy the game.

I was on the fence, too, after watching the quick look. I bought the game anyway, and it's bad that I feel lucky that the game hasn't crashed for me yet. But telling the game to enable Steam, even after the warning, and not getting any Steam achievements while playing the game, does show that the game is in a weird technical state between "done" and "polished."

#48 Edited by Tennmuerti (8515 posts) -

@Sackmanjones said:

@Sackmanjones
So are they saying they don't care if I pirate the game?
I should note I have no intention of pirating the game but when developers do shit like this it is almost a free pass to pirate it. That's fine that you accept your game is gonna get stolen but doing stuff like this almost gives people the go ahead to pirate it

Pirates and/or people who were going to pirate it anyway don't give two shits about permissions, go aheads or free passes. They(he) are saying no such thing. He is simply ensuring a better and more widespread word of mouth about the game. And for a small release this can equate to more eventual sales.

Your question is ultimately answered in the original post by the quoted tweets.

#49 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (4012 posts) -
@SargeGulp

Internet seems to equate to entitlement. If you truly cared about obtaining a game, being fair to those who developed the product, and the medium in general (any medium) you would pay for what you wanted to own. Instead people make half ass excuses as to why they're entitled to have it, for free.

@TheSouthernDandy: I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that they should have an equal experience to someone who paid for it. I'm not sure of the logic here, it's generous to be sure. But if you got the content via an illegal act your experience should be broken.

I didn't say they deserve it I said its a smarter response. You generate good will and the people who pirate because they can't or don't want to spend the money could be won over and want to support you. The people who pirate cause they're assholes won't regardless f what you do and they'll get ahold of the updated game anyway. Pirating sucks but ranting about it won't make them stop stealing your stuff.
#50 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (5008 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

Damn, this guy is pretty cool. I'm definitely buying Hotline Miami now.

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