Need some advice for blocking

#1 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

Like the title says, I'm just not good at it. I really prefer MKs route of having a dedicating blocking button. However, my biggest downfall is capitalizing on blocked attacks. Is there a small window of opening to attacking players after blocking their attacks? It always seems like after I do in fact block successfully they just go on and block my follow up attacks? Any tips or general help would be great.

#2 Edited by casper_ (901 posts) -

yeah i dont have the game so im not too familiar with the systems but in general a lot of moves in fighting games are going to be minus on block meaning that if you have a move that has a small enough amount of start up frames to fit into that window you will be able to punish them during their recovery.

maybe you should just set the AI on hard and first practice just blocking low/overheads while teching throws. after that maybe try to punish moves that look like they might be minus on block. it might be a cool idea to do this with the AI set to your own character so you can get a good feel for what moves you have are safe/unsafe.

#3 Edited by Morbid_Coffee (954 posts) -

So do you need advice on blocking or what to do after blocking? Thread and OP don't seem to be asking the same thing.

If it's blocking, remember that NRS games have three types of moves: High, mid, and low. High attacks can be blocked standing and sometimes ducked under or crouch blocked. Low attacks have to be crouch blocked or jumped over. Mid attacks are like overheads, and have to be blocked standing. If you're getting hit while crouch blocking, it's probably a mid attack. Also worth noting: unlike Capcom fighters, you can block low in Injustice by simply holding down instead of down back.

As for what to do after blocking, it all depends on who you're playing. The good thing about Injustice is it gives you all the frame data in the move list and slaps you in the face for it, so go to training mode, record the CPU to do whats causing you problems, and test your fastest moves after block.

#4 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@sackmanjones:Depends on the attack you blocked and the character you're using; some characters just don't have fast enough attacks to land hits after quick recovery moves or something like Bane's charge; but generally speaking lighter attacks will come out fast enough to punish off the block. Fortunately this game isn't solely about block advantage so it's not a super huge issue relative to just mixing up between highs/mids, lows, and overheads. Usually a non-retarded match is decided by who is able to land strings and mix up effectively, not by turtling. Even if a guy has a 40% combo that he pulls out reliably and you don't you can still win just by preventing him from beginning that string with appropriate counters (or blocking as the case may be); though some characters are just nigh impossible for lower tier characters to beat if played well enough.

#5 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@sackmanjones:Depends on the attack you blocked and the character you're using; some characters just don't have fast enough attacks to land hits after quick recovery moves or something like Bane's charge; but generally speaking lighter attacks will come out fast enough to punish off the block. Fortunately this game isn't solely about block advantage so it's not a super huge issue relative to just mixing up between highs/mids, lows, and overheads.

I see what you mean. I play Nightwing for reference but its just kinda sucks after blocking a volley of attacks to not have a counter.

#6 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Nightwing should be fast enough with the quicker stance, staff probably not but again depends on the move. For example: Flash's normals have very fast recovery but his charge is easily punishable if you can bait the guy into doing it repeatedly. With Wonder Woman that's typically the easiest way to win that matchup, land a 25%-34% combo off the charge block; most flashes will overuse the charge; alternate with back + triangle X if he mixes up from a mid-close distance and you're set. Incidentally I'd be willing to try out my 3 guys against your Nightwing, I play each character quite differently so it should give you some degree of variety (~top 10 Wonder Woman, top 3 Lex, mediocre Frost); assuming you're on PSN my ID is Valgresas. Note Wonder Woman vs. Nightwing is a very tough matchup for Nightwing.

#7 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Nightwing should be fast enough with the quicker stance, staff probably not but again depends on the move. For example: Flash's normals have very fast recovery but his charge is easily punishable if you can bait the guy into doing it repeatedly. With Wonder Woman that's typically the easiest way to win that matchup, land a 25%-34% combo off the charge block; most flashes will overuse the charge; alternate with back + triangle X if he mixes up from a mid-close distance and you're set. Incidentally I'd be willing to try out my 3 guys against your Nightwing, I play each character quite differently so it should give you some degree of variety (~top 10 Wonder Woman, top 3 Lex, mediocre Frost); assuming you're on PSN my ID is Valgresas. Note Wonder Woman vs. Nightwing is a very tough matchup for Nightwing.

I am on psn, my name is the same as the Gb one, Sackmanjones. I would appreciate the help. And you are right, the hardest opponents for me are Wonderwoman, Green Lantern and Superman (specifically the ones that hang in a corner and shoot the lasers)

#8 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Green Lantern and Superman are both top 3 characters so that's no surprise (it's hilarious fighting a 40-40 GL and then he randomly whips out the same exact combo every other damn GL uses; still beat them but it can get frustrating). Nightwing is middle of the road or so; which if you get good enough with him should be enough to beat most players; there doesn't seem to be a ridiculously bad character in this game though some reward you a whole lot less (Ex: Quinn's normal projectiles do 4%, same type of projectile from Deathstroke or Joker does 8-12%)

#9 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Green Lantern and Superman are both top 3 characters so that's no surprise (it's hilarious fighting a 40-40 GL and then he randomly whips out the same exact combo every other damn GL uses; still beat them but it can get frustrating. Nightwing is middle of the road or so; which if you get good enough with him should be enough to beat most players.

Ive thought about switching but I've already put so much time into him I might as well get the most of what I can. Considering switching to Superman or Batman later.

#10 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Batman has very good combos but not necessarily super strong anti air, there's ways to spam with him that can get incredibly irritating against the wrong character but he's not as great as people think; Superman has the best super in the game, the best air projectile, one of the best combo continuers (frost breath R2), an excellent good normal high projectile and pretty varied and easy to use combos. Lex, Ares, and Hawkgirl are all good but underplayed characters if you want to seem less generic. Ares might wind up being broken due to how his tport works and how blocking functions in this game.

Sent you a friend request, I'll be on tomorrow after 5 EST probably until 8 and then some time after that once I find a logical spot to stop playing Tomb Raider.

#11 Posted by HolyHackZack (105 posts) -

I've always had trouble with blocking in fighting games but it feel like I am having luck with couple of techniques.

First, I will block an incoming barrage and follow up with a combo that requires I hold away on the d pad anyway, usually ending in an overhead or sweep.

Second, I'm using a lot of backward dashes to avoid incoming blows since I'm already holding back.

And 3rd, grab is my default if I know opponent is going to block.

#12 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

Like the title says, I'm just not good at it. I really prefer MKs route of having a dedicating blocking button. However, my biggest downfall is capitalizing on blocked attacks. Is there a small window of opening to attacking players after blocking their attacks? It always seems like after I do in fact block successfully they just go on and block my follow up attacks? Any tips or general help would be great.

To put it in plain speak every move has specific advantages or disadvantages. For example, Batman's standing medium attack is +7 on hit that means there are 7 frames of animation where batman will have priority before his opponent can react to the move. Now if that move is blocked that same move puts batman at a -3 meaning batman now has a 3 frame window where the opponent has the upper hand if that move is blocked.

Some moves still give the attacker advantages on block which is why you hear people refer to them as "safe" moves. Moves that under most instances will be safe to use with minimal chance of being punished for a block. If you go into practice with Injustice you can actually see all of the move data in the pause screen when you go to the move list.

#13 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@sackmanjones said:

Like the title says, I'm just not good at it. I really prefer MKs route of having a dedicating blocking button. However, my biggest downfall is capitalizing on blocked attacks. Is there a small window of opening to attacking players after blocking their attacks? It always seems like after I do in fact block successfully they just go on and block my follow up attacks? Any tips or general help would be great.

To put it in plain speak every move has specific advantages or disadvantages. For example, Batman's standing medium attack is +7 on hit that means there are 7 frames of animation where batman will have priority before his opponent can react to the move. Now if that move is blocked that same move puts batman at a -3 meaning batman now has a 3 frame window where the opponent has the upper hand if that move is blocked.

Some moves still give the attacker advantages on block which is why you hear people refer to them as "safe" moves. Moves that under most instances will be safe to use with minimal chance of being punished for a block. If you go into practice with Injustice you can actually see all of the move data in the pause screen when you go to the move list.

Ya I saw that and to be honest that may be too advanced for me ha. I mean I actually am pretty solid overall, I can hold my own against most people and have won a few matches I had no right too. But I will still take a look for the characters I see the most of (Deathstroke, Batman, Superman). Thanks for your help though, I appreciate it.

#14 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@sackmanjones: Batman has very good combos but not necessarily super strong anti air, there's ways to spam with him that can get incredibly irritating against the wrong character but he's not as great as people think; Superman has the best super in the game, the best air projectile, one of the best combo continuers (frost breath R2), an excellent good normal high projectile and pretty varied and easy to use combos. Lex, Ares, and Hawkgirl are all good but underplayed characters if you want to seem less generic. Ares might wind up being broken due to how his tport works and how blocking functions in this game.

Sent you a friend request, I'll be on tomorrow after 5 EST probably until 8 and then some time after that once I find a logical spot to stop playing Tomb Raider.

Batman not as good as people think? Hmm....

#15 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@demoskinos: I haven't watched this yet but Batman is insane. He is so flexible and can pull out an insane combo from almost any position

#16 Edited by CollegeGuyMike (388 posts) -

@demoskinos said:

To put it in plain speak every move has specific advantages or disadvantages. For example, Batman's standing medium attack is +7 on hit that means there are 7 frames of animation where batman will have priority before his opponent can react to the move. Now if that move is blocked that same move puts batman at a -3 meaning batman now has a 3 frame window where the opponent has the upper hand if that move is blocked.

Some moves still give the attacker advantages on block which is why you hear people refer to them as "safe" moves. Moves that under most instances will be safe to use with minimal chance of being punished for a block. If you go into practice with Injustice you can actually see all of the move data in the pause screen when you go to the move list.

It would go a long way to helping new players understand exactly what the hell is going on in fighting games if developers actually put explanations like this in their games, and not just frame counters or even worse no surfaced information at all.

#17 Edited by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

@demoskinos: Hey is there anywhere I can catch the rest of that injustice stream? I'd like to watch the rest and see how these guys play, maybe I could pick up a few things.

#18 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -
#19 Posted by StarvingGamer (8000 posts) -

Argh should I buy this? I hate the fact that there is a fighting game out there that I don't know in my hands. But I really don't like the idea of stages with asymmetrical interactive elements.

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but it feels really strange for me to have someone asking a fighting game that I can't give a really detailed answer to.

#20 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@demoskinos: Mediocre gameplay throughout dudebro; changes a bit once they get 600 matches under their belts (note the spammy-ness of the batman to boot, doesn't even vary it particularly well). Aquaman can actually easily beat Batman in a projectile duel so pretty bad failing on that dude's part, while his combos aren't as good his setups and intro moves are much better so you'll get an Aquaman with 30-35% combos landing much more frequently than Batman's 40% etc; but no shame in not being good at the game yet. Just because someone slaps a sponsor on something doesn't automatically make it superior gameplay o.O I've seen 15 better Batmen and gone 10-5 against them (45-12 overall or so).

@starvinggamer: It's a fun game and fairly wide open; as I said even the worst characters can beat most players if played well enough. It's not as balanced as something like KoF but as far as single fight games go you could do a whole lot worse. If you're worried/boring and/or playing a "light" character then you can just pick Atlantis every time and limit the interactive elements; but you kind of get used to them. With most characters it is very easy to punish someone trying to interact with an object and doing it safely yourself quickly becomes second nature.

#21 Edited by Dave_442 (52 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: The guys playing in that video are Mortal Kombat nuts. The guy playing Aquaman tested Injustice and Mortal Kombat 9 for NetherRealm, was involved in writing the strategy guides for both games and has placed well in national tournaments. The other guy is a top competitor in Mortal Kombat 9, won national tournaments, won MLG tournaments and made grand finals at Evo.

I have not played Injustice and the fact that these guys are well-known does not mean you are incorrect. So if you really believe that what your looking at in those videos is mediocre play, you should get yourself out to some tournaments and start taking their money.

There's a big tournament in New Jersey in a few weeks called East Coast Throwdown.

#22 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@dave_442: Don't worry... He isn't as good as he thinks he is.

#23 Posted by FLStyle (4579 posts) -
#24 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19308 posts) -

I can't believe there are people who still take fredchuckdave seriously.

#25 Posted by Carryboy (631 posts) -

You guys really feel green lantern is top 3?

I haven't put enough time into the game to put out a top 3 but out of the characters I have messed around with id say Batman, Shazam, Black Adam and Aquaman seem stronger.

#26 Edited by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@fluxwavez said:

I can't believe there are people who still take fredchuckdave seriously.

Heh. I'll agree to that. Secondly, we should play some more matches sometime. Even though you mostly wiped the floor with me it was fun playing @brodehouse should join up too. That is... if you guys are still playing.

#27 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19308 posts) -

@demoskinos said:

Haven't played in a few days, but I'm up to join a lobby when I can. Saw a post of yours requesting a match yesterday, but I was busy and I'll also be busy today. Wednesday would be a neat time and it'd be nice if we could have a lobby of multiple players like there was when GB did the TNT.

#28 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@fluxwavez: Yeah, it be nice to have at least four people.

#29 Posted by groin (837 posts) -

fredchuckdave is so adorable.

#30 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Yo dawgs I've won more ranked matches than all of you combined, but man I wish I knew what I was talking about. How dare I insult your e-heroes! God this stuff is hilarious, a sort of culturally embedded and accepted form of stupidity; amazing! So easy to troll and still have a legitimate point on the side, I love this place. TR would be right at home, big stick in hand.

Edit: I've also beaten the best Aquaman twice if that makes me "qualified" by the esteemed standards of this random internet forum, so silly.

#31 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

Argh should I buy this? I hate the fact that there is a fighting game out there that I don't know in my hands. But I really don't like the idea of stages with asymmetrical interactive elements.

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but it feels really strange for me to have someone asking a fighting game that I can't give a really detailed answer to.

I'm really enjoying myself. I come from the MK crowd more than a big fan of the DC stuff and while it certainly stands on its own, a knowledge of how the fighting system in MK pays off here. I prefer NR fighting games to CAPCOMS and if you feel the same I would say this is an easy buy. The story is a bit weaker in here than MK but overall it is quite excellent and is packed with content other than the simple ladder and online.

#32 Edited by Brodehouse (9588 posts) -

@demoskinos: I haven't played in a few days, been busy moving. I suppose I could hop on tonight. I've likely grown worse in the time off.

Related to the thread, I also find the punish windows on a lot of moves to be a lot smaller than in MK or P4A, which would be the last two games I have any experience with.

#33 Posted by Petiew (1331 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: Online and Offline skill is pretty different in fighting games. What works on one often won't work on the other. Guys who only play online and then finally go to a tournament often leave without a win, while tournament players trying out online find that their tactics won't work as well. Having the most wins and being ranked the highest online doesn't necessarily mean that person is the best at the game. (Online ranking is also harder in determining who is the best player since this game is on three different consoles with their own seperate ranking systems.)

I beat the "best" (Highest BP) Gouken on SSF4 (PSN), but it doesn't mean I'm one of the best players in the world. Without actually playing against these guys, claiming they're awful is kind of the equivalent of shouting at a football match on TV whie eating an entire pizza and telling the team how awful they are and that you would win the whole thing single handedly. People, perhaps wrongly, assumed you didn't know what you were talking about since you only play online, but you're also incorrect in assuming you're automatically better simply because you have more ranked wins when a large percentage, and perhaps the most skilled, of the active player base doesn't even play online.

I think I just spent 5 minutes replying to a clever ruse.

#34 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: Yay? So you have some fancy stat to wave around. Your like the adorable try hard kids that play call of duty and brag about their 3.0 k/d ratio because they are so siiiiiickkk.

#35 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

Why does nobody like fredchuckdave?

#36 Edited by ThePhantomnaut (6186 posts) -

Online ranked matches like it matters... :|

#37 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

You know I could be number 1 on the ranked leaderboard (and I'm still in striking distance of that more or less) and you still wouldn't listen. I've actually done this in 3 different games in 3 different ways (become the objective best or nearly the best player) and every time there was this huge bevy of idiots that didn't like how discordant my methods were relative to the rest of the populace. In a non-communal society the pervasive level of group think is continually astounding. I know it is hard to embrace the opinions of others and actually use your brain from time to time but give it a shot broheims; you might learn something.

As I once said in a dreamless haze: "I was the best, and you can not fathom how great it is to be the best." A taste of Ali as it were, that's the incentive to try, albeit having done it 3 times I don't know how great the impact would be on my psyche; I know I can do it and doing it just to shit on people is a limited motivation at best.

Random info: You need to win about 90 matches a day to keep pace with the top guys, since this is a new IP the only way you're getting better is playing it a lot; I suppose I could buy someone just watching and perfecting in another game that was a retread of something else very similar but this one you really have to get familiar with the matchups and strategies of various other players personally. For me it takes eh like 4.5-5.5 hours to win 90 matches, I could probably win 200-250+ matches in a day if I so desired to go with 50-75 losses and 5-10 "quit" losses (if someone quits on you manually, i.e. doesn't DC, then it counts as a loss for the victor and a streak break as far as the leaderboard is concerned); so assuming I get a week off at some point here I could fairly simply take over the top spot; though having done so there would be a competitive repercussion of other players trying to retake their positions and I'd have to win more than 90 matches/day to maintain that spot. I'm not that interested in the game (almost to 100 matches won with Killer Frost, already well over 250 with Lex and over 100 with Wonder Woman; those were my goals more or less) to do this at present and have various other games to play, but I certainly have the capacity to do so.

@sackmanjones: I would wager Jeff and some of the mods like me else I wouldn't be able to be so opaque about trolling and the like; there's a wide appeal to the wiser components of communities and hell people just love me for reasons beyond my control. Cult of personality my friend. Anyway usually the reason a person gets kicked off a forum is because they troll but do so in a stupid fashion; moderators actually like if you sort of stir the pot in an effort to create interesting discussions and thus I have this mysterious shield. Albeit I was once banned from a fairly large forum for directly shitting on the Fires of Heaven guild master; but that's a tale for another time.

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