The New Irrational Behavior Podcast

#1 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -

Irrational Games has a new podcast that discusses everything about the company, called Irrational Behavior, and its hosted by Shawn Elliot.  The first episode was very awesome, gave some insight into the design process behind Bioshock, but most interesting was a game that Irrational never got around to making.   It was a zombie game where you must fortify a position in a city and then tactically choose who to help and what to secure throughout the city.  Would you rescue this guy who you know has a shotgun and bring him into your squad?  Would you turn on the power for a part of the city?  Get food or supplies?  They also talk about RPG elements and compare it to X-Com (is it just me or do they never say what the gameplay would be?  Going by the SWAT comparisons I assume FPS but a turn based X-Com type game would be awesome).  It sounds very interesting and I would have loved to play that game.
 
Anyone who is interested in Irrational or game development should definitely check this out.  They did a good job with the first episode, I must say.  I was surprised how funny it was, the "dog in a wheelchair" bit cracked me up.

#2 Posted by SlowHands (347 posts) -

I just listened to this and I can confirm that, yes, it is pretty damn good. 
 
The cancelled game, Division 9, sounded a bit too complicated to me.  However, it did sound very interesting.

#3 Posted by Driadon (3027 posts) -

I liked it a lot. It had a similar flow to that of A Life Well Wasted, which I could listen to over and over again simply because of the format and subject manner.  
And I wish Division 9 would be released to some capacity :( that sounded so awesome, with some old school design decisions that I absolutely adore.

#4 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -

Game Informer did a whole write up on the game, and there is a video, check it out here:
 
 http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/01/12/trailer-for-irrational-s-scrapped-zombie-game.aspx

 
It is indeed a FPS with squad based elements.  Obviously its a super early prototype so don't expect to be blown away but the game would have been awesome if it had been made I'm sure.  One of the commenters points out that the level shown is an exact level from SWAT 4 (I think it was in the demo actually, the only bit of that game I played but I believe I recognize it).  The ideas behind the game are far more compelling than Left 4 Dead to me, it's what I hoped that game would be.
 
 
 
 Also another study in internet stupidity as people in the comments criticize this early prototype video.  One guy says it would only make "a decent XBLA game".  Ugh, this was made in an extremely short amount of time as a demonstration.  I'm surprised some of these people can even use a computer.

#5 Edited by demonbear (1877 posts) -

I liked this podcast alot, it made me realize that the Giantbomb one is pretty cheap compared to this one. Lots of music, nice editing, great pace. Its real pro stuff. You'd think that after a year, giantbomb would have a better podcast than what they have right now. 
 
Also for Division 9, its basically Left 4 Dead with an emphasis on base building than action, but basically, its Left 4 Dead. I'm convinced that one of the reasions as of why they talk about this old project so openly now is that they know that this idea was done, and done better than what they thought in the first place.

#6 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@demonbear said:

" I liked this podcast alot, it made me realize that the Giantbomb one is pretty cheap compared to this one. Lots of music, nice editing, great pace. Its real pro stuff. You'd think that after a year, giantbomb would have a better podcast than what they have right now.   Also for Division 9, its basically Left 4 Dead with an emphasis on base building than action, but basically, its Left 4 Dead. I'm convinced that one of the reasions as of why they talk about this old project so openly now is that they know that this idea was done, and done better than what they thought in the first place. "

It's not like Left 4 Dead at all though, outside of the basic idea and zambies.  It has an emphasis on base building, you're right, and isn't that pretty much exactly what Left 4 Dead IS NOT about?  That game is about moving from one place to another across a linear map.  Division 9 would have a map where you could choose where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do to gain certain strategic advantages.  There is so much depth to this idea.  The pace they are shooting for also seems to be much slower, not the running zombies of Left 4 Dead.   Gameplay wise, besides the zombies, this game is pretty much completely the opposite.  This is a tactical shooter with strategy and RPG elements, Left 4 Dead is just a shooter.
 
I think they openly share this prototype because the game hardly got beyond conception and they aren't going to make it now, but not because it has been done better, they've just moved on.  I know to myself, and I'd imagine a lot of people, this sounds far more compelling of a game than Left 4 Dead.  That game has teamwork but is otherwise mindless, Division 9 would capture some of the simulation of actually surviving a zombie apocalypse and have tons of replayabiliity.  That's about all that would bring me to play another zombie based game right now, I could give a fuck about Left 4 Dead 2, didn't even bother playing it after the demo.
#7 Edited by dyslekt (281 posts) -

Very good podcast! But its Mr Elliot so thats to be accepted. BRODIO!!! 
 
Always nice to here from the developers side whit no PR bs.

#8 Posted by demonbear (1877 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
" @demonbear said:

" I liked this podcast alot, it made me realize that the Giantbomb one is pretty cheap compared to this one. Lots of music, nice editing, great pace. Its real pro stuff. You'd think that after a year, giantbomb would have a better podcast than what they have right now.   Also for Division 9, its basically Left 4 Dead with an emphasis on base building than action, but basically, its Left 4 Dead. I'm convinced that one of the reasions as of why they talk about this old project so openly now is that they know that this idea was done, and done better than what they thought in the first place. "

It's not like Left 4 Dead at all though, outside of the basic idea and zambies.  It has an emphasis on base building, you're right, and isn't that pretty much exactly what Left 4 Dead IS NOT about?  That game is about moving from one place to another across a linear map.  Division 9 would have a map where you could choose where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do to gain certain strategic advantages.  There is so much depth to this idea.  The pace they are shooting for also seems to be much slower, not the running zombies of Left 4 Dead.   Gameplay wise, besides the zombies, this game is pretty much completely the opposite.  This is a tactical shooter with strategy and RPG elements, Left 4 Dead is just a shooter. I think they openly share this prototype because the game hardly got beyond conception and they aren't going to make it now, but not because it has been done better, they've just moved on.  I know to myself, and I'd imagine a lot of people, this sounds far more compelling of a game than Left 4 Dead.  That game has teamwork but is otherwise mindless, Division 9 would capture some of the simulation of actually surviving a zombie apocalypse and have tons of replayabiliity.  That's about all that would bring me to play another zombie based game right now, I could give a fuck about Left 4 Dead 2, didn't even bother playing it after the demo. "
 
Oh yeah i'm sorry, its totally not a first person shooter about a post-apocalyptic event where a town is filled with zombies.... not at all..... Sure its not the same in the details, but the fact remains, its been done by valve and its been done in the only viable way, which is action-based. Theres a reason why division 9 never saw the light of day and L4D did.
#9 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@demonbear said:

" @Stephen_Von_Cloud said:

" @demonbear said:

" I liked this podcast alot, it made me realize that the Giantbomb one is pretty cheap compared to this one. Lots of music, nice editing, great pace. Its real pro stuff. You'd think that after a year, giantbomb would have a better podcast than what they have right now.   Also for Division 9, its basically Left 4 Dead with an emphasis on base building than action, but basically, its Left 4 Dead. I'm convinced that one of the reasions as of why they talk about this old project so openly now is that they know that this idea was done, and done better than what they thought in the first place. "

It's not like Left 4 Dead at all though, outside of the basic idea and zambies.  It has an emphasis on base building, you're right, and isn't that pretty much exactly what Left 4 Dead IS NOT about?  That game is about moving from one place to another across a linear map.  Division 9 would have a map where you could choose where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do to gain certain strategic advantages.  There is so much depth to this idea.  The pace they are shooting for also seems to be much slower, not the running zombies of Left 4 Dead.   Gameplay wise, besides the zombies, this game is pretty much completely the opposite.  This is a tactical shooter with strategy and RPG elements, Left 4 Dead is just a shooter. I think they openly share this prototype because the game hardly got beyond conception and they aren't going to make it now, but not because it has been done better, they've just moved on.  I know to myself, and I'd imagine a lot of people, this sounds far more compelling of a game than Left 4 Dead.  That game has teamwork but is otherwise mindless, Division 9 would capture some of the simulation of actually surviving a zombie apocalypse and have tons of replayabiliity.  That's about all that would bring me to play another zombie based game right now, I could give a fuck about Left 4 Dead 2, didn't even bother playing it after the demo. "
 Oh yeah i'm sorry, its totally not a first person shooter about a post-apocalyptic event where a town is filled with zombies.... not at all..... Sure its not the same in the details, but the fact remains, its been done by valve and its been done in the only viable way, which is action-based. Theres a reason why division 9 never saw the light of day and L4D did. "
1) Left 4 Dead isn't about a single town where a post apocalyptic event happens... so? It's in a whole country.  Nitpicking I know, but at least make an accurate point.
 
2) American Football and Soccer (as we Americans often call it) are the same too, they both feature two teams of eleven players, offense and defense, passing, a ball, a field, score keeping, referees....
 
But wait, that's just the SETUP for those sports.  The two sports have the same setup but are completely different in how they are played.  This is the case with these two games.  L4D and this Division 9 are completely different outside of the zombie disaster scenario and their being FPS games.  Anyone could see that, and that's not just the "details".   One is a co-op shooter based on teamwork (and competitive elements as well in certain modes) and the other is a strategic game, with an attempt at more realism.  Do you think all FPS games are the same?  That is merely the perspective, which you could compare in my previous statement to say the field and ball in Soccer and Football.  Okay, both have a ball on a field, but the similarities end there.
 
And Valve's way worked, but it wasn't very ambitious.  How could you say Division 9 wouldn't work if it was never even attempted?  It sounded ambitious sure but I wouldn't say impossible, and the upside would be completely worth it.  The game sounds amazing in theory.  The reason it was never made was because of Bioshock and how things happend at 2K.  The guys at Irrational said they wanted to make the game, and I'm sure if any studio could have done it, Irrational could.  Very talnted developers.  But Bioshock took off and they got bought up by 2k.  Obviously the Division 9 deal wouldn't have worked, it was with Vivendi.
#10 Posted by demonbear (1877 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud: Don't get me wrong, if you tell me " hey there's a studio making a left 4 dead mixed with x-com elements " and i'll be jizzing in my pants so hard i'll have to go home and change!
#11 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@demonbear said:

" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: Don't get me wrong, if you tell me " hey there's a studio making a left 4 dead mixed with x-com elements " and i'll be jizzing in my pants so hard i'll have to go home and change! "

Same here, but hey then don't question it, lol.  You should see the appeal.  It's ambitious for sure but damn would that be a hell of a game.
 
To be honest the only way it would sound better to me would be if the game actually played like X-Com (or Jagged Alliance, Silent Storm, etc).  A great premise in an overlooked genre?  Yes please.
#12 Posted by demonbear (1877 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
" @demonbear said:
" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: Don't get me wrong, if you tell me " hey there's a studio making a left 4 dead mixed with x-com elements " and i'll be jizzing in my pants so hard i'll have to go home and change! "
Same here, but hey then don't question it, lol.  You should see the appeal.  It's ambitious for sure but damn would that be a hell of a game. "
I'm just saying, if Levine's crew thought this concept had any chance of working and selling well, they would be working on it right now and not discussing publicly about it. This idea is dead and burried, unfortunatly.
 
BUT
 
The fact that they namedropped X-com yet again is another indication their next game might be a new X-Com title. And if anyone can make a new exciting X-Com game, its Irrational.
#13 Edited by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@demonbear said:

" @Stephen_Von_Cloud said:

" @demonbear said:

" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: Don't get me wrong, if you tell me " hey there's a studio making a left 4 dead mixed with x-com elements " and i'll be jizzing in my pants so hard i'll have to go home and change! "

Same here, but hey then don't question it, lol.  You should see the appeal.  It's ambitious for sure but damn would that be a hell of a game. "
I'm just saying, if Levine's crew thought this concept had any chance of working and selling well, they would be working on it right now and not discussing publicly about it. This idea is dead and burried, unfortunatly.  BUT  The fact that they namedropped X-com yet again is another indication their next game might be a new X-Com title. And if anyone can make a new exciting X-Com game, its Irrational. "
Well the main thing is that now, after two Left 4 Dead games and zombie games left and right, it would seem like a played out idea.  Like they say on the podcast, the idea predated Left 4 Dead, and at the time it would have been more unique and exciting, with zombies only really being covered by Resident Evil and here and there occasionally in other games.  I still think it would be a great game, but yeah I don't think it would be something Irrational would do.  They've always been pretty unique with their games (outside of SWAT, and they seem to feel like it was weird in a lot of ways for them to do that judging from the podcast)
 
I agree about Irrational making an X-Com game, it would be very cool. The question is does it play like X-Com or is it some kind of FPS with strategy elements?
#14 Posted by natetodamax (19219 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
It was a zombie game where you must fortify a position in a city and then tactically choose who to help and what to secure throughout the city.  Would you rescue this guy who you know has a shotgun and bring him into your squad?  Would you turn on the power for a part of the city?  Get food or supplies?  They also talk about RPG elements and compare it to X-Com (is it just me or do they never say what the gameplay would be?  Going by the SWAT comparisons I assume FPS but a turn based X-Com type game would be awesome)
O_O
 
I've had an idea for a game nearly identical to this floating around in my head for a while now.
#15 Posted by demonbear (1877 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
"  I agree about Irrational making an X-Com game, it would be very cool. The question is does it play like X-Com or is it some kind of FPS with strategy elements? "
I think they would do exactly what they did with Bioshock compared to System Shock 2. X-com needs to be updated for the modern era and it needs to work on consoles. So i expect them to come up with a more action-based system with strong tactical elements but somewhat toned down compared to the old x-coms.
#16 Posted by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@demonbear said:
" @Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
"  I agree about Irrational making an X-Com game, it would be very cool. The question is does it play like X-Com or is it some kind of FPS with strategy elements? "
I think they would do exactly what they did with Bioshock compared to System Shock 2. X-com needs to be updated for the modern era and it needs to work on consoles. So i expect them to come up with a more action-based system with strong tactical elements but somewhat toned down compared to the old x-coms. "
That'd be good.  I mean I'd love to see that turn based style, I"ve really liked games in that genre, but I see that it doesn't work as well on console.  Those RPG/Strategy elements could work well in that kind of game as well.  Really whatever Irrational I can see being quality and original, so yeah X-Com would be no exception.
#17 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

Division 9 sounds like a no brainer to me.   I don't know why it's been canned.  It's not like the base building has to be complicated at all.  Two Forts maps and Red Faction : Guerrilla have this type base building and defence game mode already so I can see no good reason for a  proper multiplayer game which extends and simplifies the mechanic not be released.  Irrational are just an unlucky company considering what happened to Tribes : Vengeance's servers being shut down so quickly so that's probably a big factoring aspect as to why they don't want to go ahead with the idea.  Also, unlike VALVe they don't have the network to host such a game in place which also makes them more wary considering what happened to Tribes : Vengeance.  Man I love that game.

#18 Posted by Spacetrucking (946 posts) -

*Dog in a wheelchair*  
*Dog in a wheelchair*  
*Dog in a wheelchair*  
*Dog in a wheelchair*  
*Dog in a wheelchair*
 
I love this podcast. These guys are insane!

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