John McCain

#1 Posted by GamespotNoMore (856 posts) -
#2 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

Well thats the thing with an election. It makes us chose one over the other. If this was just a contest of rate John McCain as a human being with no further ramifications; id say he was a top notch guy for all the reasons you said and then some. But to be the president, you have to be more than just a top notch guy; you have to be able to put your faith in the president that their decision is the one you would want to make. That is where McCain fails.

Think of it as a pure olympic race; just because one person won the race, doesn't mean all the other competitors are slow; they are just slower than 1st place. John McCain lost overall, but he still beat out all the other republicans.

Hell I voted for Obama and he has already done some shit I didn't want happening; but as the president Obama has to be the fine line that makes decisions in general the masses will like; hence politics. That is why I don't get all the Ralph nader people: they don't want to listen to other people, they just believe their way is the best way and want to shake things up. While all of Ralphs ideas may be super radical and may shake things up, so would having a dictatorship. Politics by democracy is based on catering to the masses, and if the masses doesn't want to deal with the "real" issues, then the president will win by dealing with the issues that the masses care about.

(sorry for stupid rant about nader at the end; those poeple just don't get it.)

#3 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"yeah, I agree with you a lot about Ralph Nader stuff. He should just stop running. He hasn't garnered near enough votes as Ross Perot did in 1996 (8 million plus votes) or 1992 (19 million plus votes), but I guess Nader is an option for people who hate both candidates. But some of the third parties have some radical ideas that are completely crazy"
Nah, if people hate both parties, they generally write-in someone. Usually Ron Paul, or Tits McGee, or Roll Fizzlebeef. Nothing serious.
#4 Posted by twswordsman (67 posts) -

not to spark a debate here...but dude, Optimus prime!? Seriously? How dare you sir mock our political process by suggesting Optimus Prime be a write in. I say that if you don't like who's up there, do us all a favor and don't vote. 

Besides, everyone knows that Man-spider would win over optimus prime, hands down!
#5 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

After he saved Nakatomi Plaza, Chicago O'Hare Airport, New York City and America in general from an online menace, he definitely deserved a fairer shake at being President.

#6 Edited by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -

All I can say is that I voted for him but McCain chose the worst vice president possible and he paid for it

Also many believed (becasue of Obama 's clever ads ) that he was like Bush while in fact he was not

#7 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"Palin was a really poor pick...so was Joe Biden"
Well one was a retard, while the other had a retarded mouth.
#8 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"I agree Daniel...Obama's campaign...I am NOT Bush...McCain is because he's in the same party...Bush is evil..therefore McCain is evil...and it worked splendidly, and honestly if I were a total hardcore democrat, I would advise Barack Obama the same strategy, and it would work every time, especially after a president with some of the worst approval ratings in history"
exactly , Bush is one of the most unpopular president in American history . based on CNN's report  75% of Americans are glad that he is leaving White House also based on the same report  29% of Americans believe  Bush is the worst president ever  . by relating McCain to Bush  , Obama won the election .


GamespotNoMore said:
"Palin was a really poor pick...so was Joe Biden"
  yeah , but at least  Biden was not rude and shameless .  Palin is not even qualified to be a senator in Alaska  what about being the Vice president 
 
#9 Posted by Optiow (1745 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"what do people think of this guy? Both my parents voted for him, but I voted for Obama, but honestly, there are things I really dislike about both of them, just like in a lot of elections...I admire and respect McCain for being a patriot and not giving into torture for years as a POW..that takes guts and courage"
Who was he tortured by?
the Japs?
Or the Germans?
#10 Posted by AndrewGaspar (2418 posts) -
Optiow said:
"GamespotNoMore said:
"what do people think of this guy? Both my parents voted for him, but I voted for Obama, but honestly, there are things I really dislike about both of them, just like in a lot of elections...I admire and respect McCain for being a patriot and not giving into torture for years as a POW..that takes guts and courage"
Who was he tortured by?
the Japs?
Or the Germans?"
...

Are you being a smart ass or are you just retarded?
#11 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"well, to me, just my opinion, Biden comes off as very rude, like a know-it-all, arrogant and smug..he's probably a pretty good senator, but he has an arrogant, prickly demeanor...if Obama wanted to create a new Washington, DC with people tired of Washington politics, he shouldn't have selected a senator who first got elected as Delaware senator in 1973. What about the Dream Team of Obama-Clinton? I thought Edwards would have been a better vice president, yes, even after we found out he cheated on his wife while she had cancer"
  As for the Vice President there were many better choices for Obama , no doubt about it . also I believe Obama's cabinet could have been a lot better . the rumor about  corruption in Obama's cabinet and the way they have been chosen does not make it any better either.  I hope Obama manages to handle things properly .
#12 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

McCain eats babies, pass it on.

#13 Posted by Optiow (1745 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"tortured by the Viet Cong I believe for years, and they offered to release him, but he wouldn't go unless the rest of his group (squadron or whatever it's called) (the group of POWs that he was captured with)  were released too, so he was tortured some more for this country"
Oh sorry!
I had forgotten the 'nam war!
well then, he would have had a really bad time, the 'kong were nasty shits.
#14 Posted by Azteris (810 posts) -
daniel_beck_90 said:
"All I can say is that I voted for him but McCain chose the worst vice president possible and he paid for it

Also many believed (becasue of Obama 's clever ads ) that he was like Bush while in fact he was not"
I guess he's not the exact same person, you're right.


He just put out the same view on the issues (near the election).
#15 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -

My friends, the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG, how many houses do I own?  How the hell should I know, I'm a rich old white man bitch!

#16 Posted by Gunner612 (4338 posts) -
Hexpane said:
"My friends, the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG, how many houses do I own?  How the hell should I know, I'm a rich old white man bitch!"
yeah he kind of put me off with that statement. Seriously if you dont even know how many houses you own then how are you going to handle other peoples problems?
#17 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -
Gunner said:
"Hexpane said:
"My friends, the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG, how many houses do I own?  How the hell should I know, I'm a rich old white man bitch!"
yeah he kind of put me off with that statement. Seriously if you dont even know how many houses you own then how are you going to handle other peoples problems?"
There are no problems, as McAin's Senior Economic Adviser stated on record "Economic fears are mostly overblown, we have become a nation of whiners"

WAHHHHHAAAAAA we got 700billion dollars of tax money stolen from us to pay for CEO bonuses waaaaahhh  we have the worst national debt in all of history, waaaahhhh
#18 Posted by Gunner612 (4338 posts) -

Yeah thats a good way to get votes, call the nation names and your shoo-in to win

#19 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"he seems to be a good senator...I don't know how he would do for president, but it doesn't matter now because Barack has been chosen"
  Yeah , Democrats won the match but fortunately they did not capture (the magical ) 60 senate seats .  the parties are still balanced

.Azteris said:
"daniel_beck_90 said:
"All I can say is that I voted for him but McCain chose the worst vice president possible and he paid for it

Also many believed (becasue of Obama 's clever ads ) that he was like Bush while in fact he was not"
I guess he's not the exact same person, you're right.


He just put out the same view on the issues (near the election)."
  Exactly , Obama did a great job of making him what he was not . hope he could remain that clever in the actual presidency ! .
#20 Posted by BlackWaterCO (1574 posts) -

I also voted for John McCain

But Im fine with Obama I guess...I will accept him when he delievers on all his promises

#21 Posted by MB (12384 posts) -
BlackWaterCO said:
"I also voted for John McCain

But Im fine with Obama I guess...I will accept him when he delievers on all his promises"
I thought you were 16?
Moderator
#22 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
BlackWaterCO said:
"I also voted for John McCain

But Im fine with Obama I guess...I will accept him when he delievers on all his promises"
    me too , I am eagerly waiting to see Obama's plans in action
#23 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -

Obama's plans were what exactly? He is from the Clinton school, he is generic middle of the road "democrat" who is really a "mainstream" which in this country = conservative.

McAin and Obama BOTH voted PRO BAILOUT. They are both typical corporate cock suckers who can't wait to spend BILLIONS on the rich CEOs and consultants.  This false idea the republicans put out of "Obama being the most liberal..." is so false.  He is "liberal" compared to McAIn, but he is in no way a true liberal.  McAin wants to pretend the economy is fine and spend 100 years in Iraq, that is not conservative,that is reactionary.  Obama wants to slowly think about Iraq and bail out giant monopolies that have stolen billions. that is a conservative.

We have not had a true liberal in any seat of power in decades.   We have a government completely dominated by only 2 parties, and those 2 parties are completely controlled by powerful, rich lobby groups.  If you compare their records, McAin is only a "Maverick" on the most minor of issues, he is lockstep w/Bush on95% of everything that is important.

Sadly Obama is also lockstep w/ the mainstream conservatives.  He is pro Bailout, anti- gay rights, and anti constitution.  just like Bush, Reagan, McAin etc... Obama got the liberal vote,but he isn't even close to a liberal.

A true liberal agenda would be to change all international policies to be human rights based, not economically based.  For instance


CHINA

What is Obama's policy w/ China? Open Engagement. Guess what Bush's policy was? Open Engagement, Clinton, Reagan.... all the way backto Nixon.  When you have the same policy w/ China that Nixon did, there are no concerns w/ being "liberal"  that is a conservative, $$ driven policy.

The sad fact is so many republicans are worked up into a shoot about Obama being some wild liberal, when he is just another mainstream politician caught in the web of lobbyists.

#24 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
at first I should mention that I endorse republican party
Hexpane
said:
"Obama's plans were what exactly? He is from the Clinton school, he is generic middle of the road "democrat" who is really a "mainstream" which in this country = conservative.

  I kidna agree

Hexpane
said:


McAin and Obama BOTH voted PRO BAILOUT. They are both typical corporate cock suckers who can't wait to spend BILLIONS on the rich CEOs and consultants. 
  Bailout was necessary , the economy would collapsed otherwise
Hexpane said:
".  This false idea the republicans put out of "Obama being the most liberal..." is so false.  He is "liberal" compared to McAIn, but he is in no way a true liberal. 
Agreed

Hexpane said:
.  McAin wants to pretend the economy is fine and spend 100 years in Iraq, that is not conservative,that is reactionary.  Obama wants to slowly think about Iraq and bail out giant monopolies that have stolen billions. that is a conservative.


I do not think so , McCain was extremely concerned about the economy and mentined in various correspondence that we should do something  to  avoid financial depression . (he  was also the first to come up with offshore drilling idea) .

as far as I know Obama wants to end war in IRAQ and let the US Army focuses on Afghanistan .


Hexpane said:

Sadly Obama is also lockstep w/ the mainstream conservatives.  He is pro Bailout, anti- gay rights, and anti constitution.  just like Bush, Reagan, McAin etc... Obama got the liberal vote,but he isn't even close to a liberal.



I think you are so mad about him being anti-gay ,  just wanted to say that this whole anti-gay thing was there since it started and it is mostly related to religious heads .
 Hexpane said:
What is Obama's policy w/ China?

that is what made me concerned



#25 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"I guarantee you OBama has more homes than he can keep track of....Obama just a much more intelligent speaker"
Maybe you should check the actual facts then.  Obama has 1 house he bought w/ his wife a few years back.   he'll get much richer once his 4 years/8 years is over and he can more books and speaking tours.

#26 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -
daniel_beck_90 said:
"at first I should mention that I endorse republican party
 


Hexpane
said:


McAin and Obama BOTH voted PRO BAILOUT. They are both typical corporate cock suckers who can't wait to spend BILLIONS on the rich CEOs and consultants. 
  Bailout was necessary , the economy would collapsed otherwise
 

Hexpane said:
.  McAin wants to pretend the economy is fine and spend 100 years in Iraq, that is not conservative,that is reactionary.  Obama wants to slowly think about Iraq and bail out giant monopolies that have stolen billions. that is a conservative.


I do not think so , McCain was extremely concerned about the economy and mentined in various correspondence that we should do something  to  avoid financial depression . (he  was also the first to come up with offshore drilling idea) .

as far as I know Obama wants to end war in IRAQ and let the US Army focuses on Afghanistan .


 



"



If the bailout was necessary, why is the economy continuing the spiral down? Why did the CEOs still get their bonus payments?  What about our 401ks? Why did a Senior Official w/the US Treasury say on record when asked how did they come up w/ the number 700billion?
 ON RECORD as a rep of the US Treasury... NO DATA POINTS... how do you spend 700billion without at least having data points? It's a blank check of corporate welfare, that has not had any positive effect on the economy.  Bush, Mcain and Obama all were pro welfare bailout.

. "It's not based on any particular data point; we just wanted to choose a really large number."  A Treasury Department spokeswoman trying to explain to Forbes magazine how the department came up with the $700 billion number chosen for the initial financial services bailout.

 "The fundamentals of America's economy are strong."  John McCain on the economy, in an interview with Bloomberg TV.

 "We have sort of become a nation of whiners."  
Former US senator Phil Gramm, then an economic adviser to GOP presidential candidate John McCain, commenting on the American people and the economy in an interview with the Washington Times.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."  The Treasury Department's proposed Emergency Economic Stabilization Act in September.

"Maybe 100."  John McCain discussing how many years US troops could remain in Iraq, during a town hall meeting in Derry, N.H.



#27 Posted by Virago (2486 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
Obama just a much more intelligent speaker"
whereas you are eloquent beyond words.
#28 Edited by drakesfortune (296 posts) -
Hexpane said:
"My friends, the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG, how many houses do I own?  How the hell should I know, I'm a rich old white man bitch!"
Way to talk about the things that really impact the country.  The houses thing was always stupid, and I feel sorry for people who continued making that comment when it became known that the reason he didn't know was because they own a bunch of houses that they rent and lease out, and John has nothing to do with it, his wife takes care of all of it, and they were in the process of buying and selling some properties at the time.  You know though, keep talking about that stuff. 

What's worse, that John wasn't sure if they owned 6-7 houses at that moment, or that Barack didn't know his pastor of 20 years was a nutty conspiracy theorist who thought the government invented AIDS to kill black people, or that Bill Ayers was a terrorist and Obama held political events at his house, or that Tony Rezko, the corrupt landowner who was brought down on bribery charges gave Obama a sweetheart deal on some land and was also one of Obama's biggest fundraisers, or that one of the biggest recipients of Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae contributions was Obama when those two psudo corporations are THE reason our economy collapsed forcing us to spend trillions to keep the boat floating?  Or that Democrats and Obama VERY dishonestly said the reason the economy collasped was deregulation and a lack of regulations while FAILING to mention that DEMOCRATS blocked all of the attempts by Republicans to REGULATE Freddie and Fannie!  It was absurd to listen to these Democrats blame this on Republicans, when it is Democrats who called anyone who wanted to regulate Fannie and Freddie a racist and hater of poor people (because regulating them would have meant tightening lending standards, which would have prevented the economic meltdown).  Bush tried to regulate them and was blocked by democrats, the republicans in the senate tried to regulate them, blocked again by democrats.  Then Obama and then Democrats somehow successfully blamed this on Republicans because Republicans are traditionally for deregulating industry, but they weren't in this critical case, they were for more regulation here. 

Oh and if you want to see the bastards who prevented regulation in congress, what this video, it should make everyone furious that these fuckers did this to us in the name of fairness.  Fairness fucked us all this time.  The irony is that the very people (poor people) these idiots were trying to help by having lax regulations, are the very people who were hurt the most by this scandal.  Further, the people who continue to pay are poor people, because now if you don't have great credit, you can't get a loan, and most poor people don't have great credit.  I mean, Democrats royally screwed poor people by attacking regulation and regulators.  Their intentions were not bad, but the result was deadly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

So McCain didn't know if a house was his or not, Obama apparently has such complete lack of judgment in choosing his friends that it is a serious worry.  So he trusted Rezko, Wright, and Ayers, and who will he trust as president that's of ill character that will affect us all?  Look, I hope Obama had all of those relationships for politically expedient reasons that are selfish, and used those people for purely political reasons, and not that he was such a bad judgment of character that he couldn't see those people for who they really were.  Because, honestly, if he couldn't tell that Wright, Ayers, and Rezko were bad peeps, and that the Fannie and Freddie money was dirty, he is going to take us down some pretty dicey roads.
#29 Posted by Optiow (1745 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"I guarantee you OBama has more homes than he can keep track of....Obama just a much more intelligent speaker"
Your right there, he has a way of winning the croud.
#30 Posted by Optiow (1745 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"any way, US senators each make $169,300 annual salary at least, and any one of them can afford more than one house if they want to. I'm sorry if I haven't been eloquent. I don't have a speechwrite unlike all US presidents and presidential candidates."
That is a hell of a lot of money!
In New Zeland dollars that would be like
$300,000 at least!
#31 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

McCain seemed good-natured, but he also seemed detatched from the people. While, on the other hand, Obama seemed good natured but was detatched from reality.

I supported Obama in the hope of an end to affirmative action once and for all.
#32 Posted by Hexpane (1397 posts) -
drakesfortune said:
"Hexpane said:
"My friends, the fundamentals of the economy are STRONG, how many houses do I own?  How the hell should I know, I'm a rich old white man bitch!"
Way to talk about the things that really impact the country.  The houses thing was always stupid, and I feel sorry for people who continued making that comment when it became known that the reason he didn't know was because they own a bunch of houses that they rent and lease out, and John has nothing to do with it, his wife takes care of all of it, and they were in the process of buying and selling some properties at the time.  You know though, keep talking about that stuff. 

What's worse, that John wasn't sure if they owned 6-7 houses at that moment, or that Barack didn't know his pastor of 20 years was a nutty conspiracy theorist who thought the government invented AIDS to kill black people, o 
Oh here we go w/ the bullet points about Obama being a "terrorist muslim"

Walk into any church in the country, I will show you a '"pastor/preacher/priest"  who is completely out of touch with reality.  Should I really care if someone who believes a GIANT BEARDED SKY FAIRY IS GOING TO MAKE IT ALL BETTER also is out of touch w/ government conspiracies?

I'm not going to get into a Obama defense debate, quite frankly I find Obama to be a nice speaker but his politics are so middle of the road and so far the most important vote of his life was THE EXACT SAME AS MCCAIN that I can't really defend someone who is endorsing the exact same philosophy that conservatives and the status quo are.

However at least Obama was somwhat grounded in his economics that he did not go on record as Mccain did by saying it was"psychological"
#33 Posted by Bonesofwar (262 posts) -

This thread made my day, people spewing the same old partisan talking points over and over, as if, they mean anything. I have yet to see anything of substance discussed about the candidates. Seriously, you guys all watch far too much MSNBC and Fox News. Both of those networks are so skewed in their reporting that it is impossible to actually take what they say for fact. The fact that both of them mascarade as news networks is laughable. All of both network's prime time programming is made up of partisan blow hards spewing party talking points, and twisting facts to repesent their party of choice in a positive light. 

Now, if one would look at both candidates from an objective stand point, one would notice that both John McCain, and Barrack Obama are from the same party. That party being the corprate party. You can find minor differences between the candidates, but their core beliefs are identical. Both candidates accepted corprate campaign contributions, both candidates voted for the bailout, wich may very well have done more harm than good, and both candidates voted to fund the Iraq war. 

The Democratic Party, and the Republican Party can try to fabricate as many differences between themselves as they want, it still dosn't change the fact that they are on in the same. Both are controlled by lobbiests and corporations. Both have created a two party dictatorship making it nigh impossible to get elected to a major office unless you are a member of one of the parties. Through laws restricting the possiblity of independant  candidates to actually get on the ballot. The only way we will ever have a true democracy is if every candidate for president who is on enough ballots to get elected to the presidency gets public funding equal to that of candidates that affiliate themselves with a party. But we all know that wont happen. 

#34 Posted by Breadfan (6590 posts) -

I always liked him, but he changed a lot during his campaign.  If he acted as he always did before I think he could have given Obama a better run for his money. 

#35 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

You should have voted for Barr.

#36 Edited by Bonesofwar (262 posts) -

Ya, it is a sign of media bias, and a sign that the republicans and democrats measures to keep independant and third party candidates out of office are working.

#37 Posted by BlackWaterCO (1574 posts) -

I wanted Rudy Juliani to win

He truly believes this who republican and democrats thing is asinine

we all american

#38 Posted by Grilledcheez (3947 posts) -
BlackWaterCO said:
"I wanted Rudy Juliani to win

He truly believes this who republican and democrats thing is asinine

we all american"
And yet he was the attack dog for McCain much of the time attacking Obama based on his "democratic" beliefs.
#39 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"it's a sign of which parties have been around for decades and which parties have 1000 times more money--Republicans and Democrats, not Green Party, LIbertarian Party, Socialist Workers party...the only way we'll have a major THIRD party with enough MONEY is when/if the DEMOCRATIC or REPUBLICAN PARTY splits into TWO"
Doesn't it concern you that the people with money always win?
#40 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -
Let me fix this.

BlackWaterCO said:
"I wanted Rudy 9/11 Juliani to win

He truly 9/11 believes this who 9/11 republican and 9/11 democrats thing 9/11 is asinine

we all 9/11 american" 9/11
#41 Posted by Bonesofwar (262 posts) -
GamespotNoMore said:
"no, Arkthemaniac...because that's the way the world works...I don't put my trust in the world or its powers..I put my trust in the power ABOVE, and I know this earth and world is only temporary, and my  life is only temporary...but enough PHILOSOPHY...it is SICK and DISGUSTING how the world works and how power works that he/she who has the most money wins, BUT  as far as POLITICAL parties are concerned, to me, in my opinion, BOTH DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS have more SANE ideas, and more REASONABLE ideas than GREEN PARTY, LIBERTARIAN PARTY, and all of the hundreds of other THIRD parties COMBINED"
Sane? You mean ideas that fit into your idea of how government should work.
GamespotNoMore said:
to me, in my opinion, BOTH DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS have more SANE ideas, and more REASONABLE ideas than GREEN PARTY, LIBERTARIAN PARTY, and all of the hundreds of other THIRD parties COMBINED"
This is possibly the most idiotic statmentI have ever had the pleasure of reading. The Green Party, Libertarian Party, Constitution party, et cetra, they all have largly conflicting ideas on how the government should be run. Furthermore the democratic party and republican party have a clear cut difference on most issues. Even if they are both essentially the same, corprate, party. But, I don't think you really understand that, because you have been taught to associate third parties with radicalism and people wanting to totally reshape government, and completely change the country. I don't blame you though, some people can't for an opinion without some one else telling them what to think.
#42 Posted by Bonesofwar (262 posts) -

Sorry to break it to you, but yes, you have been indoctrinated into the two party prison that is the United States Political System. But, I have a small question for you, what do you think the Democratic Party's stance on health care is, and furthermore, what is your stance on health care?

#43 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -
McCain was a realllllly bad choice from the start, the guy has no clue half the time. 

Now about Obama. HOPE and CHANGE are probably the two most overused and shallow words ever used in campaigns, year after year, election after election. its mind boggling how he pretty much ran an entire campaign on those two words. 

the sad part is that so many people thought there was a big difference between the two of these guys. they're more the same than different. 
#44 Posted by Bonesofwar (262 posts) -

Universal healthcare for all aye? Sounds like you and Ralph Nader share a political ideal, shocking right? Though, you are wrong when you say that Barack Obama supports Single Payer universal health care for all. He says he supports lowering the cost of health care for everyone, therefore making it availible to everyone, while still relying on private insurance companies. These are two vastly different things. Nader's plan for Single Payer universal health care strengthens the economy lifting the burden of health care from employers,and american families. Obama's plan enriches the insurance companies, who, you guessed it, gave him campaign contributions.

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