Metal Gears of War?

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Posted by Vinny (1697 posts) -

Apparently, Hideo Kojima was not pleased with Giant Bomb's pick for Game of the Year. In an interview with Famitsu, the man behind the Metal Gear series says that he is drastically retooling the way Kojima Productions will operate in 2009. Kojima has the following to say:

"We're currently reviewing everything - from the team structure to tools and our staff - in order to make Kojima Productions a team that can challenge foreign creators and software houses..."
East + West = Blockbuster Gold!
I have to imagine the Metal Gear series is no slouch when it comes to sales overseas, but maybe it's the development time and production cycle that has Kojima concerned. I'm also sure there are Xbox 360 fans out there doing that weird thing where you tap your fingers together and raise an eyebrow, but we'll just have to wait and see if competing in Western markets means coming to Western consoles. Kojima definitely acknowledges the high cost of game development and the need to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, stating: 

"...you've got to use cutting-edge techniques, and doing so costs money - so I don't think you can make games that just appeal to the Japanese market."
I'm not exactly sure what makes a game Western these days, though I do know that if you have a crying turnip in your game, odds are you're Japanese. Will Solid Snake be swapping exposition for eviscerations? Do more explosions and more blood equal more sales? I really liked Metal Gear Solid 4, so I'm not sure what I'd change to make it "more appealing." 

Kojima sums up his sentiments with the following:

"I've thought a lot about how Western games have been winning, looking it [sic] from a global perspective, and there are things that I've noticed. So 2009 will be a year of change, a year where we start from zero again."
Here's my completely invented interpretation of what that means. Starting from zero again? Look for a Metal Gear remake in 2009 on XBLA. Yeah? Probably not. What do you guys think?

Check out Develop for the complete translation of the interview.
Staff
#1 Posted by Vinny (1697 posts) -

Apparently, Hideo Kojima was not pleased with Giant Bomb's pick for Game of the Year. In an interview with Famitsu, the man behind the Metal Gear series says that he is drastically retooling the way Kojima Productions will operate in 2009. Kojima has the following to say:

"We're currently reviewing everything - from the team structure to tools and our staff - in order to make Kojima Productions a team that can challenge foreign creators and software houses..."
East + West = Blockbuster Gold!
I have to imagine the Metal Gear series is no slouch when it comes to sales overseas, but maybe it's the development time and production cycle that has Kojima concerned. I'm also sure there are Xbox 360 fans out there doing that weird thing where you tap your fingers together and raise an eyebrow, but we'll just have to wait and see if competing in Western markets means coming to Western consoles. Kojima definitely acknowledges the high cost of game development and the need to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, stating: 

"...you've got to use cutting-edge techniques, and doing so costs money - so I don't think you can make games that just appeal to the Japanese market."
I'm not exactly sure what makes a game Western these days, though I do know that if you have a crying turnip in your game, odds are you're Japanese. Will Solid Snake be swapping exposition for eviscerations? Do more explosions and more blood equal more sales? I really liked Metal Gear Solid 4, so I'm not sure what I'd change to make it "more appealing." 

Kojima sums up his sentiments with the following:

"I've thought a lot about how Western games have been winning, looking it [sic] from a global perspective, and there are things that I've noticed. So 2009 will be a year of change, a year where we start from zero again."
Here's my completely invented interpretation of what that means. Starting from zero again? Look for a Metal Gear remake in 2009 on XBLA. Yeah? Probably not. What do you guys think?

Check out Develop for the complete translation of the interview.
Staff
#2 Posted by Nogert (132 posts) -

Wafflz

#3 Posted by JoelTGM (5596 posts) -

They'll probably change it up, find that nobody likes it, then go back to the old formula.

#4 Posted by BODDAH (315 posts) -

Finally someone other than Jeff posted, haha.

#5 Posted by Joseppie (733 posts) -

I don't really want Kojima to try to mold his development style to better fit with the Western market. What he's made in the past is extremely unique and unlike anything being made here in the West. If he changed, sure it would probably be excellent still, but I want more of the stuff that makes Metal Gear what it is from Kojima. It seems strange for him to want to imitate.

#6 Posted by RHCPfan24 (8609 posts) -

An XBLA version of Metal Gear would be awesome, but I don't understand what Kojima is worrying about. A bunch of other publications and people gave MGS4 the coveted game of the year title, and it sold very well, especially for a Japanese game. I don't know what you can change from MGS4, honestly.

#7 Posted by LifeByDegrees (241 posts) -

Fun little MGS4 reference in that last reference.
I believe I read somewhere that Kojima Productions is working on two projects right now- one in the classical Kojima style- the other in the new studio style.
Might that mean blowout compilation of the MGS 1-3 games with the tools and style of MGS4? and the other project being a seed project for another generation of Kojima games- either Metal Gear- or not?
It will definitely take some refining to make Kojima Productions competitive production wise with Western studios. If you've seen the bonus features/documentary from the MGS4 Limited Edition bundle- you know that even though Kojima Productions is a rather awesome studio- they definitely have their rough edges and flaws- as one would expect from a crazy creative guy like Kojima who is all about perfecting the game- while the hardware/software engineers try to play keep up. Fields of expertise clash- but most of the time Kojima wins- which leads to seven year games- which aren't really practical in the world of six-month dev cycles coming out of the states.

I wish him and his team the best of luck- I just hope they don't lose too much crazy along the way!

#8 Posted by Double0hFor (410 posts) -

a western game doesnt have every guy with long hair, that everyone doesnt have huge, ridiculous swords, doesnt have dragons who talk........o and ugly clothing

#9 Posted by JediAutobot (200 posts) -

I think of the dialogue on the GoY podcast when I see this "Western" theme being talked about.  The guys talked about how the action mechanics are starting to feel more Western.  One of the criticisms they had was it didn't go Western enough.

#10 Posted by bwooduhs (1616 posts) -

This could be interesting.

#11 Edited by Moon (251 posts) -

Did he mention Giantbomb?

p.s. you really should be more active on the forums you are funny.

#12 Posted by floodiastus (1262 posts) -

Western games upped the "story" just in recent years, before that the biggest difference was that it seemed like western games was about gameplay with some programmers writing the story.

Japanese games have often had a deeper philosphical side to them. But that changed alot in the last few years as the western games matured quite a bit.

Last years JAP-RPGs have been a joke
#13 Posted by giyanks22 (2681 posts) -

YEY Vinny POsted...yeah  Cool...I'd Love MGS for my 360

#14 Posted by Det1 (190 posts) -

The war economy is now fueled by locusts.
...
This has "disaster" written all over it.

#15 Posted by Fire_Marshall_Bill (126 posts) -

who is this vinny, hello vinny people seem to like you, so you are cool.

Giantbomb needs more publicity, this site rules

#16 Posted by DavidSnakes (675 posts) -

What can they change?  Plenty.  They absolutely NEED better writers and translators.  Kojima has to stop writing the stories, if they want to be taken seriously. 

#17 Posted by shorap (47 posts) -

I think what Kojima means by "western games winning" is that western games are usually more fun to play gameplay-wise.  While MGS 4 had the best gameplay of the series, it still was a bit too convoluted.  The poor reception of MGS 4 Online proves this.

In addition, the game was too uneven.  After the first 2 acts, many thought that MGS 4 was one of the best games ever made.  After the 3rd, 4th, and 5th act it wasn't even the best in the series.

Lastly, Kojima really needs to look at how some western games handle story progression.  While the Half-life series may not have that great of a story, the way it's presented is second to none.  Now I'm not saying that MGS needs to copy this but HL's Alex is one of the best characters ever made and Valve accomplished that w/o resorting to drawn out, anime-inspired (would say Matrix but since The Matrix was essentially an anime brought to life...) cutscenes.
#18 Posted by I_smell (3925 posts) -

I wanted a Zone of the Enders 3, but now I guess not :/

#19 Posted by pepper (304 posts) -

I don't think this indicates anything. I think all that it means is they want to make some more money on a game that would be more profitable in the USA.

#20 Posted by TheHBK (5471 posts) -

How about less retarded storylines, that are more silly than cool?  How many fucking times do we need to be brought out of the badassness that is metal gear to only realize, oh yeah, these fucking japanese guys think this stuff is funny.  God, no more robots that bleed or little girl computer hackers or ass glimpses.

#21 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6138 posts) -

They definitely need to work on the story-telling aspects.  I'm enjoying the heck out of Metal Gear Solid 4, and I've been a fan of the series all the way back to the original Metal Gear, but somewhere along the way the story just became too convoluted and ridiculous.  That's not to say that Kojima should change up the length, depth, or whimsical nature - they just need to focus and make sure the audience knows what the hell is going on.

Moderator Online
#22 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -

Kojima is going to seriously spice things up with his new games, no doubt. If he can bring as many new unique things to new games as he has with the MGS series, we're in for a great Kojima future.

i think this is mainly about story telling, and character design. 
MGS4 had plenty of Western influence, so theres no need for him to have to start making completely new style of games, a new FPS from him wouldn't be...surprising. 
I just expect new unique ways of story telling. He probably also wants to make a much better online game, with lots of competition, he's stated he plays, or played, lots of COD4
#23 Posted by wardcleaver (172 posts) -
What can they change?  Plenty.  They absolutely NEED better writers and translators.  Kojima has to stop writing the stories, if they want to be taken seriously.

Yes!  Kojima reminds me of George Lucas; he comes up with some amazing concepts, but should really leave the writing to someone else.

God, no more robots that bleed or little girl computer hackers or ass glimpses.

I agree with everything except the "ass glimpses."  
#24 Edited by BiggerBomb (6944 posts) -

It means that MGS4 will come to the Xbox 360 and for every copy bought a Sony fanboy's firstborn son will die.

#25 Posted by coakroach (2490 posts) -

Metal Gear: Raiden
Featuring gratuitous amounts of cyborg ninja related violence and even more cleavage shots!
....
Wait a second
Saving the world + Ninja + Objectification of women - Stealth = Ninja Gaiden 3?!
Oh god i'm confused!

#26 Posted by joey (983 posts) -
#27 Posted by mrsmiley (1083 posts) -

i agree with most of the comments about the storyline. many animes and japanese movies/games have really convoluted storylines for some reason. maybe the japs are just smarter?

#28 Posted by DiegoBitterman (30 posts) -

I like the Metal Gear Solid 4 ending reference there with starting from zero.Nice work referencing your own work Kojima must have been a chore to dig out.Heres one for you; reinventing Kojima productions for a western approach "this is bullshit( slams fist into wall).Western games have to have a certain level of detail to sell "the patriots are trying to control the digital flow of information".

#29 Posted by NarcolepticBat (410 posts) -

BANJO-KAZOOIE crying turnips, however it is made in england! i r pwn the gerstmann

#30 Posted by NinjaHunter (972 posts) -

"Yes!  Kojima reminds me of George Lucas; he comes up with some amazing concepts, but should really leave the writing to someone else."

George Lucas and Kojima have completely opposite problems, Lucas writes stuff that is way over simplified, while Kojima can get way too convoluted. But I don't know maybe kojima fell into a hole after MGS2 he couldn't get out of. A new IP will be interesting to see.

Does anybody know if Policenauts or Snatcher were as convoluted as the MGS series?
#31 Posted by Dryker (491 posts) -

@Ninjahunter- Dead on balls accurate about that Lucas comparison.
@Joey- Is that a Solid Ryan Davis? If it isn't, my dream that it is remains.
 
Anyways, Vinny articles kick ass. More Vinny articles! Oh, yeah, and good point. How does one make a "better" game than MGS4? Sounds like trouble or Ball-Shakingly Mind-Explosive.

#32 Posted by joey (983 posts) -
Dryker said:
"@Joey- Is that a Solid Ryan Davis? If it isn't, my dream that it is remains."
No, it's vinny
#33 Posted by Hef (1109 posts) -

I know I probably sound like a crazy fallout fan -- but no!!!!!! I love metal gear just the way it is =(

#34 Posted by Otacon (2209 posts) -

He has to be careful not to lose the charm of his creations in the process. I do trust Kojima productions though.

#35 Posted by LiquidPrince (15898 posts) -

I'd rather they stick to what they're doing now. Kojima Productions has not released a bad game since who knows when.

Online
#36 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

Sounds to me like he's saying non-japanese markets are cheap if ya ask me... What they need to do is just improve effeciency ,and not be all "NO COMPRESSION!!!!" and stuff. How bout you make a seperate game for this new audience? I mean, Metal Gear would have to be SERIOUSLY revamped to fit your typical western chap. The humor, while funny, is often going to seem out of place for such a serious game. I mean, Snake looking up some girls skirt? Really? I think its hilarious, I love it, but a lot of my mates think its out of place. So, instead of changing, expand, branch out. Although, I will say, I'm not so sure they need to be quite so rediculous with the game. I like the quirky mixture of Gears of War seriousness and Fable humor and Sam Fisher stealth, but it gets a bit much with the monkey that smokes and wears shiny underwear and the open shirted scientist chicks and stuff. I think if your looking for something pretty wacky, but with enough seriousness and heaviness to make your action soul happy, MGS4 is great. But, I will admit that I would really love to see a more down to earth MGS, because thats the last thing I would use to describe MGS4 xD

#37 Posted by Champy (533 posts) -

is solid snake gonna shot himself up with steroids, say things like "I LIKE MY TOAST CRISPY ON THE OUTSIDE" and get a chainsaw gun? only time will tell.

#38 Posted by malxmusician212 (48 posts) -

THEY'D MAKE HELLA $MUNLA$ FOR MAKING A 360 PORT, Y DON'T THEY MAKE A MGS4 360 PORT IT WOULD ONLY MAKE THEM MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

#39 Edited by CallMeRotten (229 posts) -

It sounds me to me that he's acknowledging how Japan is no longer the Xanadu of game developers. Look how many big selling games have come out of the U.S. and Europe in the past 10 years. It's no secret majority of Japan's game sales are DS games and whatever crap Square-Enix put out recently, I think he just wants to see a change and wants Japan's taste in games to grow some big macho innovative balls.

Maybe he was disappointed with MGS4 not appealing to anyone but fans? as much as I love the Metal Gear series (my fave series of all time) I really want Kojima to work on something else for a while, make a new Snatcher and Policenauts and port the originals as unlockables!

#40 Posted by Gruff182 (854 posts) -

Seems kind of odd, considering MGS handed all the western devs asses to them. It had the bizarre Japanesque moments, like Johnny crapping himself but theres nothing wrong with that. After all whats the equivelent? Gears? where the main character has the charisma of a toaster and supporting characters, that you want to die as much as the enemy, just because of how irritatingly stupid they are.

Changing the workflow and tools is fine, but I hope they don't feel the need to dumb down there games just because of  the pants-on-head stupidness of the average western gamer.

GOW has a chainsaw on a gun RARRrrrr and you can do roly polies!

#41 Posted by Wii60BigScreenGamer (28 posts) -

dissapointed with sales, kojima? how 'bout not releasing it as an exclusive for the worst selling console  of this generation?? ....or..... how about not taking control from me while i'm playing to force me to watch absurdly overlong, incomprehensible drivel that only passes off as a story to some cracked out mental patient who saves all his poo because he thinks each one is a tiny brown child he's given birth to?

i know, i'm asking too much. so what say we lower our standards a bit; how 'bout multiplayer that doesn't suck then.....huh? whaddya say? 
#42 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7614 posts) -

Convoluted storylines doesn't mean the Japanese are smarter, that only means they're more willing to sit through crap.  Games like Mass Effect or even Fallout  have a massive amount of dialogue and good stories, and are directly aimed at the western market.  The difference is that they cut all the crap that isn't necessary, there's a lot of back story to go into, but you don't need to watch a four hour cut scene explaning what PMC's are.

As has been said..  Hideo Kojima needs an editor, the story in MGS4 could have been heavily condensed.  It would have made the game more engaging and more intense.  The older games did suffer from the same problem, but I thought most of MGS1 and 3 were exciting and interesting to hear about..  A lot of 4 really bored me.  And if he expects better sales..  The PS3 is the wrong platform, but I think we all already know this is just a fancy way of him saying the next game will be multiplatform.

The biggest problem with MGS4 in my eyes though, is that the gameplay was totally crap.  It was definitely influenced by recent western games, but the controls were very stiff, awkward and just plain frustrating.  Being able to take cover obviously comes from things like Gears of War, but there was no way to shoot during cover, you have to get up, putting yourself in harms way.

The story may be good, but trim it down and focus more on making the gameplay good.  Otherwise, make a movie.

#43 Posted by SheikYerbouti_Strikes_Back (16 posts) -

Kojima initiates Year Zero. You heard it here first.

#44 Edited by Legend (2657 posts) -
Vinny said:
Apparently, Hideo Kojima was not pleased with Giant Bomb's pick for Game of the Year.
LOL! Yeah, right. I bet that's why he made this decision. :P
#45 Posted by marcio1986 (27 posts) -

MGS on xbox, i just don't see that happening, maybe kojima will try to make something more gore and violent in 2009.


BTW "that weird thing where you tap your fingers together and raise an eyebrow" thats what I did when I saw GiantBomb pic for GOTY, maybe you guys prefer more blood and violence to a good story i guess.
#46 Posted by killdave (1073 posts) -

Japanese gaming is close to death now - soon it will be gone completely

#47 Edited by thiago (666 posts) -

Jesus Christ, Americans are so clueless, so clueless that's not even funny. It's a kind of cluelessness that annoys everyone else, it is not something you would make fun of. It's ignorance, arrogance and pretentiousness mixed into something ugly.

When it comes to videogames the Japanese trample anything any American could come up with, not by a small different, but by a large one. MGS4 is awesome in a epic scale. Everything in that game makes sense, the battles, the story. Everything has a reason to be so. And the game is so smart that allows the player to solve the problems in many ways (which is why the owners love it and play it many times over, just like I did). You can kill everyone in your way, you can sneak around, you can create diversion by helping one of the sides while you pass unnoticed... this is unparalleled!

MGS4 is awesome in an Epic scale. Nothing any American studio ever did got any close. There are few exceptions, like GTAIV, but they are only very mundane, not epic.

One of the characteristic American style games is stupid story line, or the lack of a story line altogether. Allied with stereotypical soldiers on steroids your militarized society seems to find "cool". The story is always shallow, no explanations are given. The enemies don't exhibit any intelligence, organization or purpose. They are placed there for you to shoot at. The enemies have no story, and all they do is to grunt towards the camera. Cartoonish is the best word to describe it.

American games don't even look like games. They are tech demos with propaganda embedded in them. In many aspects they remind me of Nazi propaganda designed to portray their "enemies" as subhuman. The games feel like a conditioning program, designed to implant automatic responses into the general population. They don't prize thinking, as a matter of fact they seem to be designed to make the player not to think at all. Gears of War and Doom are great examples of it. As stupid as a game can get.

Why the hell every single enemy must be something monstruous without any sign of reason or purpose, and with an appearance that would be unexplainable by any logic the natural world has? That guy the movie 300 with knives instead of arms is an example of such designs. That doesn't even make sense! How does he use the bathroom or eat?

The only reason GTAIV won best game at giant bomb is because this is a strongly anti-Sony site. Hell will freeze before a PS3 exclusive will gain anything here.

#48 Posted by xplodedd (1316 posts) -

this guy likes to run his mouth too effin much.

#49 Posted by HiroSeven (215 posts) -

I don't think Kojima needs to change many things as far as development goes. The storylines in his MGS series have been a bit strange, but at the same time thats what made them appealing in the first place. Then again I guess thats why they 'seem' to be so unappealing now since the plot structure/storytelling has been done a few times over with a different perspectives.

I haven't played MGS4 yet (as I don't have a PS3) but from what I've seen it looks pretty revolutionary. The way that gameplay is enveloped within the cinematic is a perfect example of excellent japanese development. Western development is indeed capable of similar methods, but I haven't seen it yet. Thats not to put any disdain on Western developers, I think they make awesome games in their own right but, most of the Western stories seem to be stale with just a few exceptions.

When I look at my video game library I see games from Square-Enix, Tecmo, Capcom, Konami and then a few from Bungie and Treyarch/Activision. I've never really been a fanboy of any company and have always gotten games that appeal to me first... and I've played games by western developers and japanese developers and have had equal dislike and like towards them.

Bottom line is that they both make great games. Japanese gaming won't go away anytime soon and  playing a japanese developed game has always been a bit more fun for me than a western one. Although,  I think that as soon as a year from now, there wont be many differences in Japanese or Western gaming development since both sides are working hard to bring out masterpieces and the differences between them are now minor at best.

Having said all that, I think it would be cool if Kojima re-invented the original NES Metal Gear and/or Metal Gear 2 into a full 3-D game in the style of one of the PS2 games. Although thats definately asking for too much. ;)

-Hiro

#50 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -
what makes a game Western these days ?
1- Guns and Guns and more Guns
2- F words and constant swearing
3- partial nudity
4- Kick ass story
5- lots and lots of blood
6- shaky camera
7- fantastic voice acting

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