What Trying to Fix the Tribunal System Has Taught Me

Posted by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

I've been learning a ton of things from making threads and blogs for the first time ever... I just wanted to share, since my first blog and my first few threads didn't go so well.

Here's a breakdown of some of the lessons I've learned:

1.) Humility is key! No one likes to read arrogance.

2.) Being right on your first post as a thread author is difficult if you make it long. If you're proposing a comprehensive change to the system, maybe it's best to start smaller and allow the Community to work up to where your mind is already at. Sharing the credit is hard, but for the sake of keeping everyone's attitude toward you positive, it might be for the best.

3.) Edited: It's probably best to not share personal information that isn't related to the topic. If it's something that affects everyone and not just yourself, it might be okay if it serves to make the thread more constructive, but that needs to be your ultimate goal.

4.) Edited: I've been learning a lot of the basics about quoting people and replying, and editing so that your replies always look well-thought out. The part I'm having trouble with now is keeping them brief and to the point. Keeping them constructive doesn't seem to be an issue, but brevity invites more people to read what you say since it requires less effort to do.

5.) Edited: Sometimes a Community simply doesn't want to by a massive change, or by a single person's ideas. This doesn't mean that you can't change the system, it just means you're going to have to try a lot harder and include more people so that you can do the best thing for everyone.

6.) Edited: Blogs are (in general) for opinions, not for the sole purpose of a constructive discussion. It's not expected that all comments on a blog follow a logical argument like it is on a forum. Public forums are for constructive discussion and each comment should have a logical flow and explanation.

These are the basic things I've learned so far... Anyone else have tips? I want to get better at this quickly :D

Edits (Additions from below):

7.) Have a sense of humor - it doesn't hurt to step away from your topic to laugh!

8.) It's tricky, but try your best to recognize sarcasm... Ask if you must o.O

9.) Make simple changes that can hopefully please everyone. Slow down and don't try to do it all at once (goes with #2 very well).

10.) Read the responses you get (extremely) thoroughly - try to respond to as much of them as you possibly can. If you can't respond to everything at that point in time, let them know that you're actively working to address all of their concerns.

11.) Attitude is everything - Stay positive so that other people can, too! (Even in the face of harsh criticism)

12.) If you're noticing a specific user harassing you continually, ask them why. Maybe you can resolve the issue without needing to use administrative anti-harassment tools such as Forum Moderators (who are very busy).

13.) Be consistent with your replies and the way you conduct yourself, but keep a flexible frame of mind on the ideas you're asking for feedback on. Doing this simultaneously will result in less confusion and a more constructive thread.

14.) Know when to call for a large change or make a small one. The quality in the user's end experience is the most important thing.

15.) Taking/Giving Criticism:

i. Never take anything as a personal attack, even when it is personal. If you're going to respond, stay calm and to the point while doing so.

ii. Maintaining an open mind so that you can distinguish constructive criticism from non-constructive criticism. Always assume there is something useful in another person's post until you have read it a few times and cannot find anything.

iii. If need be, be able to agree to disagree amicably. Admit mistakes when you make them, compliment others' when they make useful comments. Never ever respond by commanding the other poster how to behave. If necessary, reference the appropriate resources on forum conduct and link them to allow a source of authority to guide that user back on track.

#1 Posted by Veektarius (4871 posts) -

What does this post have to do with an expansion to Morrowind?

Online
#2 Edited by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

As far as I know this has nothing to do with an expansion to Morrowind - how did you navigate to this thread if that's what you were looking for (if you don't mind me asking)?

#3 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -
#4 Posted by oodli (109 posts) -

I think that was the sound of the joke flying over your head XD

Don't mind the jokes people make here, this place is well known for sarcastic comments and joksters who like to make jokes on your expense, sometimes you just need to let them slide.

Anyway it's good to see that your original thread did not bring you down, just keep interacting with the folks around here and you'll get the groove for it.

#5 Posted by TyCobb (1972 posts) -

@oodli said:

Don't mind the jokes people make here, this place is well known for sarcastic comments and joksters who like to make jokes on your expense, sometimes you just need to let them slide.

Or understand why the joke was being made. It could be a hint that something is wrong and needs correcting as is the case here.

#6 Posted by mrpandaman (866 posts) -

I've been learning a ton of things from making threads and blogs for the first time ever... I just wanted to share, since my first blog and my first few threads didn't go so well.

Here's a breakdown of some of the lessons I've learned:

1.) Humility is key! No one likes to read arrogance.

2.) Being right on your first post as a thread author is difficult if you make it long. If you're proposing a comprehensive change to the system, maybe it's best to start smaller and allow the Community to work up to where your mind is already at. Sharing the credit is hard, but for the sake of keeping everyone's attitude toward you positive, it might be for the best.

3.) It's probably best to not share personal information that isn't related to the topic. It only leads to off-topic discussion about you that can look bad on the internet.

4.) I've been learning a lot of the basics about quoting people and replying, and editing so that your replies always look well-thought out. The part I'm having trouble with now is keeping them brief and to the point. Keeping them constructive doesn't seem to be an issue.

5.) Sometimes a Community simply doesn't want to be healed by one of its peers. This doesn't mean that you can't change the system, it just means you're going to have to try a lot harder.

6.) Blogs are for opinions, not for constructive discussion. Forums are for constructive discussion.

These are the basic things I've learned so far... Anyone else have tips? I want to get better at this quickly :D

5.) If the community simply does not want to be "healed", it feels for the most part it is fine without having a huge change to the system. Let me use Starcraft 2: HotS as an example. For the most part, people felt that the balance in HotS is very good and the game is exciting, but there was one unit that felt too overpowered and that was the Hellbat. In Wings of Liberty, Blizzard tended to do these big patches where they would greatly nerf and not necessarily buff the right units. It ended in a matches almost always playing out the same way. The Hellbat is a new unit in HotS, that could tank, be healed by medivacs (even though it is a mech unit), and deal out a lot of burst damage for a small price. So for HotS, Blizzard changes their approach and what they do is small changes that equally buff and nerf certain units. They realize if they overly nerf or overly buff a certain unit, 1. it angers the other race players, 2. affects the balance too much. For the hellbat change, they did one thing they removed it's damaging burst damage, made that into an upgrade, and equally buffed another unit by lowering it's cost for a cloaking upgrade. Because of that change, the hellbat isn't always used and actually allows for more flexible strategies.

Here's another example, MS and their whole Xbox One debacle. Hindsight, those systems they had in place could have been pretty cool. They had 2 problems, though. The first problem is with messaging. They were horrendous in their messaging to the consumers. Unclear plans, not unified response, and awful comments (such as the Don Mattrick one). You had a very bad messaging problem, but I think (and hope) you realize that now. The second problem, was that they were introducing a fairly huge change for home consoles. An anti-used game policy which really had people up in arms, the 24-hour check-in, the always online portion, the region locking, and the requirements for the internet access. If you went against any of these policies, you probably could not properly game on the Xbox One. What I am getting at is that, what you proposed was too much change. A change that the community wouldn't necessarily welcome with open arms. If you want to be a community manager, you have to work with them to get what both of you want, not just what you want even if you are saying it's for their best.

In essence, you have to be able to bend and realize when things need to be changed drastically or changed minimally. In the case of the LoL, Tribunal system and punishments, it should be changed minimally as it is working fine for the most part.

#7 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

Ok, some actual feedback. Actually read the responses you get, hell read them twice. You brushed over a lot of points made in all of your past threads (the lol forum one included).

These people are making these points because they don't like your idea as it is currently. Maybe they would like a change, but if so many people are so against your proposition there's probably a reason (more than likely the idea is flawed) especially when they provide good examples of how the idea is flawed.

Instead of just putting the same information out, perhaps work on the idea from the start again. Think of a different way you could help because obviously the one you have no is no good for anybody.

Your constant mention of people commenting on the poster and not the idea itself, this is how forums work. If you present yourself incorrectly, people are going to pick up on it and the idea (good or not) makes no difference, because it's not their focus. If a good idea is presented to you by somebody you hate (not saying I hate you) you don't care. This person is telling you what to think and giving you no reason to listen to them due to they way they conduct themselves.

Hopefully you will come back with a better idea, and maybe get it implemented, but please realize, just because you say what you really really hope for (working at riot) generally makes it untrue.

You will never work at Riot, and you don't need to. Maybe they'll adopt some of your future ideas if you present them properly, but not this time.

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

6.) Blogs are for opinions, not for constructive discussion. Forums are for constructive discussion.

Then what happens when you post a blog to the forums?

#9 Posted by oldenglishC (960 posts) -

I'm completely convinced that this has all been some type of Kaufman-esque performance piece. (and a pretty good one.)

#10 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -
#11 Posted by Slag (4455 posts) -

@ryokishine: nice improvement you're taking a better approach.

since you asked for feedback....

re: your points

  1. yup for the most part. Especially when you don't have an established reputation.
  2. true, people's attentions spans are very short. Sometimes Ideas cannot truly be reduced far enough for forum readability, but there are ways around that (like publishing a white paper before creating the topic). In other words publish the Cliff Notes to the forums leave the inner workings to another format.
  3. Depends entirely on how you do it and what you share. If you appear to congratulating yourself or lecturing others as you appeared to be doing expect an especially toxic reaction. Commiserating over shared pain usually works fairly well though.
  4. trust that your readers are smart. If they don't understand something or want to know more you can always explain/clarify in detail later. Error on the side of brevity.
  5. Trickier business. This depends largely on popularity I have/hate to say. Part of being able to effect change is be able to lead. Which means being somebody who has the respect of the community first, whether that's skill, job title, past production or personality based.
  6. Not entirely. Most people even on private blogs treat comments the same way. Plus you crossposted your blogs to Giantbomb forums, so to me and other readers it's indistinguishable in format from a Forum topic.

lastly how to handle criticism.

You can't take it personal, even when it is personal. If you're going to respond stay calm and to the point while doing so. Maintaining an open mind will help doing so. If need be, be able to agree to disagree amicably. Admit mistakes when you make them, compliment others' when they make useful comments. And never ever respond by commanding the other poster how to behave , that'll just really piss them off and frankly make you look bad.

hope that helps.

#12 Posted by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

Really happy as I'm reading through all of these responses, you guys are being very helpful indeed :)

I will try to edit the first response slowly with my take-aways from the responses I get from you guys - if I you feel I skipped you, please call me out on that :P I don't want to miss out on anything written here :D

#13 Posted by takayamasama (441 posts) -
#14 Posted by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

I'm completely convinced that this has all been some type of Kaufman-esque performance piece. (and a pretty good one.)

@oldenglishc Which Kaufman would that be? There's so many, I tried to look up what you were referring to and I couldn't, haha :)

#15 Posted by Hailinel (24970 posts) -

@oldenglishc said:

I'm completely convinced that this has all been some type of Kaufman-esque performance piece. (and a pretty good one.)

@oldenglishc Which Kaufman would that be? There's so many, I tried to look up what you were referring to and I couldn't, haha :)

Andy Kaufman, I'm guessing. The guy was a master of the bizarre.

#16 Posted by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

@hailinel: Thanks for the info. ^_^ It's a sad day that I've not read any of his stuff... Any titles by him that would prove the point? I might pick one up this week at the Library ;)

#17 Posted by Hailinel (24970 posts) -

@hailinel: Thanks for the info. ^_^ It's a sad day that I've not read any of his stuff... Any titles by him that would prove the point? I might pick one up this week at the Library ;)

I'm not aware of any books Kaufman wrote. He was a comedian and actor.

#18 Edited by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

One thing you could learn is to actually respond to the people who actually try to discuss the situation with you, unlike your last thread where you only responded to people who weren't trying to get into the discussion.

#19 Posted by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

@hailinel:

Ah, whoops! Maybe I can find something on Netflix then

#20 Edited by McGhee (6094 posts) -

You remind me of Jay444111, but not nearly as entertaining. I miss that guy.

#21 Edited by Ryokishine (32 posts) -

@mcghee: Sorry I can't be the comedian you all want me to be :( *sadface all day*

P.S. Andy Kaufman is freakin' awesome, lol.

#22 Posted by Dizzyhippos (1463 posts) -

Riot wont fix the tribunal system because they think its working fine. There wrong but as long as people keep getting banned, making new accounts, and spending money on that account, they dont give a fuck.

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