Do you agree with Jeff's view on Limbo?

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#151 Posted by Cazamalos (983 posts) -

played it at friend's house, finished in one sitting, never care about the game again 
it's good but not that good

#152 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:

" @CptBedlam: Whatever Bro, I'll be the better man and ignore what you say from now on.  For $15 I got Witcher, BC2, and SMB.  Enjoy your faux art game. "

And KaosAngel got his BS called out once again. It's royally pleasing to read your BS all the time. I loved your stuff when I saw it the first time ... when you were hyping FF13 to infinity - before you hated it. It's always a pleasure.
 
Better stay away from commenting about games you know shit about.
 
Btw.: I got these games as well (except BC2) and I just KNOW that it's retarded to compare them to Limbo in any way or form.
#153 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -
@Deathpooky said:

" If you read a narrative into it, congratulations, though it probably wasn't intended by the creators. "

And probably you didn't get it. Who can say?
 
All I know is that I got a lot of enjoyment out of the game - both, from an emotional and from a gaming-perspective. Much more than from any COD single player campaign and definitely worth 15$ for me.
 
 @StarFoxA:  If I always went for such a playtime/price-ratio-rule, I would've missed a shit-ton of great games. Shadow of the Colossus, for example, was 60$ for less than 8 hours of playtime when it was released. But it was worth every penny for me.
#154 Posted by RE_Player1 (7560 posts) -
@CptBedlam: I don't have Limbo. I don't have a 360. I have never read a review of limbo nor have I seen more than the footage shown in GB's GOTY videos. For some reason, probably because I got an infected wisdom tooth hole so I've been sitting in front of my computer for hours, I have read all the comments on this thread. Your sir are the definition of a Limbo fanboy. People didn't like the game as much as you... get over it. I like tons of games people hate but that doesn't change my opinion of them. You arguing over every negative comment of Limbo seems pathetic to me. Are you gonna respond to my comment saying I should get a life, it's none of my business because I haven't played the game or something similar to that? Probably. But dude just stop trying to convince people to like a game you like. 
#155 Edited by Ghost407 (166 posts) -

Half of these votes are from people who won't buy the game, because they won't pay $15 for a 3 hour game.  This is extremely frustrating.  How can you know how good a game is, if you haven't played it/ won't buy it.  Fine, don't buy it, but don't come on here and comment on a game that you haven't played.  I don't have a problem with anyone who has an opinion who didn't like it (if they played it), I don't even have a problem with you people who haven't played it because its too "expensive", the problem lies in you people who are hating on it, who haven't played it, for whatever reason.  I'll say it one more time, price has no bounds on the quality of a piece of media, game, movie, music, etc.

#156 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -
@RE_Player92:  Funny, you know what most of the critical commenters and you have in common? You didn't play the game. 
 
That is the whole reason why I'm posting so much. Because people are talking uninformed smack about a game they didn't even play themselves. Kinda like Jeff when he talks about Red Dead Redemption.
 
You can call me whatever you want. I loved the game and now I'm defending it against unwarranted accusations like "it's one hour long" coming from a guy who watched a speedrun of the game on youtube.
#157 Edited by Deathpooky (1402 posts) -
@CptBedlam said:

" @Deathpooky said:

" If you read a narrative into it, congratulations, though it probably wasn't intended by the creators. "

And probably you didn't get it. Who can say?  All I know is that I got a lot of enjoyment out of the game - both, from an emotional and from a gaming-perspective. Much more than from any COD single player campaign and definitely worth 15$ for me. "
I wasn't comparing it to any other game, and in general it'd be a crime to try to compare this to most other games - and I'm not sure how I became a closet Call of Duty fanatic here because I think the narrative is lacking in this game.
 
On its own merits, it mostly lives by its style and its exposition-less storytelling method.  For part of the game it works.  For part of the game it doesn't.  The ending and opening are interesting to think about and debate.  But beyond those the industrial setting with saw blades, magnets, and gravity are just video game cliches, which are introduced and dropped without explanation.   And the interesting starting elements and setpieces are entirely devoid from the second half, making them seem closer to creepy atmospheric elements than any sort of part of a coherent narrative.  The game shows it can do more with less in the first half, and then abandons that in the second half.
 
You can try to debate it all and come up with your apparent one true narrative, but there wasn't enough meat in the second half for it to work for me.  It just dropped the interesting bits and turned into a generic puzzle platformer. 
 
ETA: To compare it with another game that tried to do something similar, Shadow of the Colossus tells an incredible story with no exposition, from beginning to end.  Limbo tried to do so, but lost its way in my opinion.
#158 Posted by Illmatic (1358 posts) -

I had fun with it, but definitely did not get affected by it as much as a lot of people seem to be. I just saw it as a fun platformer with an interesting atmosphere and style.

#159 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -

Played the demo, I understand it, but I don't quite like it.

#160 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -
@Deathpooky:  The consequent descent from a natural setting into a stark industrial setting that continually gets more grim and unbearable is narrative in itself. Also, there are quite few hints (various objects or the glass wall at the end, for example) from start to finish that at least led a whole lot of people to arrive at a very similar interpretation of the narrative. The forth-and-back moment when you first encounter the sister but you are not allowed to reach her is also quite telling. Furthermore, the very last screen of the game when the boy meets his sister is the game's opening screen - only without decaying bodies, flies and an intact ladder to a treehouse instead of a broken one.
 
There is much more to the game's narrative than many people see.

And moments like jumping on the chain when the level starts to turn and the spheric music kicks are just much more powerful than stuff I've seen in most other games.
 
 

@Deathpooky

said:

  ETA: To compare it with another game that tried to do something similar, Shadow of the Colossus tells an incredible story with no exposition, from beginning to end.  Limbo tried to do so, but lost its way in my opinion. "

For me both succeeded to an equal extent.
#161 Posted by JeanLuc (3583 posts) -

I can see where Jeff is coming from. I liked Limbo a lot but After I beat it I didn't feel compelled to play it again.

#162 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Limbo is an absolute joy to look at and listen to, the controls are an absolute delight, the interface (or lack thereof) was perfect, the non-explicit story and storytelling was what I'd expect from the medium in 2010 and the game stayed original from the beginning to the very end, an end which was absolutely awesome. 
 



People got sand in their vaginas because the last third of the game is distinctively (and sadly) less interesting then the first, because they like to throw the word "pretentious" around without knowing what it means, and because of the price tag. For me personally, Limbo is GOTY 2010 and playing it as well as having played it was more worth the entry ticket of €12 - I paid €11 to see Avatar, now THAT was overpriced. Still, I would assume that so many people wouldn't have so much fun "hating" on Limbo if it would match their expectations of what a 3-4 hour game is "allowed" to cost. *eyeroll*
#163 Posted by SonicFire (821 posts) -

Not interested in voting. I like the fact that the editors have varied opinions on this sort of thing. It makes the site better in my view. While I do like some indie games quite a bit, there's nothing I hate more than some sites' gushing love for them, as well as any "games-as-art" argument that routinely eschews the mainstream. Even though I still like some of their work, this is why I couldn't stand the Area  5 TV guys (former 1up) or the Rebel FM podcasts.
 
Thank goodness GB has its head on straight.
#164 Edited by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

 The game is front-loaded with great moments, atmosphere, and interesting questions, and then the second half is filled with gamey puzzle mechanics that don't contribute at all and entirely drop any interesting threads created in the far better first half.  If you read a narrative into it, congratulations, though it probably wasn't intended by the creators.  

 
Actually, if you do the "car crash" reading (wheels, gears, speed/movement, collision, loss of gravity, smashing glass), which I certainly believe was the intention of the developers, then it is the first portion of the game that is sort of difficult to make sense of, narrative-wise.
 
Still I agree that the actual telling, interaction and exposition of the first half of the game, when there was still life in this world, was more engaging and interesting.
#165 Posted by Grelik (149 posts) -

Where's the "Agree it wasn't amazing, but definitely not bad" option in your poll?
 
I bought Limbo day one and went into it with my hype glasses on.  After about an hour my vision cleared and I felt like it started to drag a bit.  Definitely not a bad game, but definitely not this god-send of a game that most people are making it out to be.  After I finished it that same day, I kind of wanted to have my $15 back, because to be honest, it's a pretty steep price for what you get in Limbo, being that it's so short and has absolutely no replay value.
 
Regardless, played it once that day, enjoyed it, but haven't touched it since and have absolutely no desire to, there are better puzzle/platformers out there, and the art loses alot of its impact after the first couple levels.

#166 Posted by Toms115 (2316 posts) -
@Kjellm87 said:
" What did Jeff say about Limbo?  Is it his favorite game? "
yeah he loves it
#167 Posted by Kjellm87 (1728 posts) -
@Toms115 said:
" @Kjellm87 said:
" What did Jeff say about Limbo?  Is it his favorite game? "
yeah he loves it "
He he, 
he has good taste
#168 Posted by JJWeatherman (14558 posts) -

Listening to them talk about it made me want to play it. I hope it's discounted soon. 
 
Can't really say if I agree or disagree with Jeff at this point though.

#169 Posted by l4wd0g (1952 posts) -

If you're not into the atmosphere of Limbo there is nothing there for you.. 

#170 Posted by Malakhii (1443 posts) -
@Grelik said:
" Where's the "Agree it wasn't amazing, but definitely not bad" option in your poll?  I bought Limbo day one and went into it with my hype glasses on.  After about an hour my vision cleared and I felt like it started to drag a bit.  Definitely not a bad game, but definitely not this god-send of a game that most people are making it out to be.  After I finished it that same day, I kind of wanted to have my $15 back, because to be honest, it's a pretty steep price for what you get in Limbo, being that it's so short and has absolutely no replay value.  Regardless, played it once that day, enjoyed it, but haven't touched it since and have absolutely no desire to, there are better puzzle/platformers out there, and the art loses alot of its impact after the first couple levels. "
You sir, sum up my thought's exactly. It was a shame because I'm a huge fan of 2-D platformers, and Limbo gave such a great first impression, I was almost ready to Jizz my pants and bow to it as my master. There is just so much better out there, like VVVVVV, which I was glad to hear Jeff supporting. 
#171 Posted by beej (1674 posts) -
@Gmanall said:
" @beej said:
He's not saying price doesn't matter, it matters in our purchasing decisions, but it doesn't change the quality of the game. It's reasonable to say Limbo isn't worth 15 bucks, but how does that affect the product? Does Limbo get better when it goes on sale? Or does the deal become better? "
I think it does matter. If you buy a game, the value you paid raises your expectation of what and how long the game is supposed to be. If it fails to meet your idea of what it was supposed to be you will have a lower view of it. It doesn't change the game at it's core but it does change the quality. This is why I go and buy a $60 game rather then pirate it because it raises the quality of the game for me. Most of us were raised on the idea that you get what you pay for and while not always true we tend to hold onto that idea.    "
So really what you're saying here is that your expectations of a game affect it, which isn't necessarily price. Value is not a necessary feature of what makes a game good or bad, all you're saying is that you make faulty generalizations and you want to include those in a definition of a good game. Also your analogy confuses me, all of a sudden the more expensive the game the better it is because of your expectations being increased? Shouldn't that mean limbo is better since you think it's expensive.  
Your argument was "cost affects the good". when asked to explain you gave the following argument: 1) I believe that a game for 15 dollars should be longer 2) thus when limbo is shorter I get upset with it 3) therefore Limbo is bad. It seems to me that this argument speaks more about your basic presumptions here than the game itself. The fact that you can make judgement about the quality of a game without having ever seen one second (because price sets expectations which affects good) seems odd to me as a measure of the value of the game itself.  
Assuming all of what I argue is wrong then are you saying that limbo would become a better game if it went on sale? 
#172 Posted by Milkman (16791 posts) -

I don't understand how $15 for 3 hours of entertainment is absurd to some people. Do you go to the movie theater? You pay $10 or more for an hour and a half to 2 hour movie. What's the difference? I thought we were passed the point where a game needed to be 30 hours long to be great. If you want to argue the quality of the content in Limbo, fine. But this "too expensive" argument is tired and baseless. 

#173 Posted by Jeffsekai (7032 posts) -

Just beat Limbo tonight. 
 
Yes.

#174 Posted by Turtlemayor333 (510 posts) -

Not voting in this poll until hopefully tomorrow when this thing finally goes on sale. Not to dwell on price, but I think most of the people saying it's too much for them aren't really haters. I don't get the attacks on them. Maybe you don't like how they're wording it - pointing out the length of the game and interpreting that as "the game is trash." To be fair a few people might be doing that, but more are just excited that the price is going to be marked down. I am.
 
But then again I'm coming into it with a pretty skewed perspective here. I've intentionally read about a million theories in preparation for the game - and I have to say there's a lot of crazy stuff out there. It's also interesting to note that Braid is two years old...and there's a pretty solid, commonly accepted interpretation of that game now. There has been one for a while actually. Maybe I'm wrong but Limbo will probably never have that. Some people really dig that quality. Other people just see a bunch of dudes trying too hard on the internet.

Which is exactly the argument about abstract art. Deep, or lazy? In that way the developer totally succeeded if they were trying to make "art." For better or worse.

#175 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -
@Turtlemayor333 said:

"I've intentionally read about a million theories in preparation for the game"

You really should've played the game before you read all that stuff. The way you approached this, the game's narrative is guaranteed to disappoint you.
 
If I read all that atom bomb stuff before I played Braid, I would be similarly disappointed when I would play it afterwards. Btw I don't agree with the widespread assumption that Braid is all about the A-bomb. Also, people read too much into Limbo sometimes. Like the clunky observation, that there is a schoolbus in the title screen. No, it's what it looks like: a treehouse with a ladder. But there is something to that treehouse with ladder that you notice when you see the same screen at the end of the game.
#176 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4800 posts) -

Limbo always struck me as a cool, spooky little platformer. I don't get where the shouts of "pretentious!" are coming from. Is it because Limbo has a focused art style? Because the creators were trying invoke a mood and atmosphere? I don't get it. 
 
I haven't played the game yet, though. Same reason I didn't buy Shank. There are better things to do with $15 than play a spooky little platformer. Like Lair of the Shadow Broker and Undead Nightmare.

Online
#177 Edited by Vendetta (434 posts) -

The two of those options given in the poll are kind of to the extreme. I loved the feel of the game, but it just got dull to me after a while. I don't think my saying that is necessarily an indictment on the game's puzzles. I think it's more a description on how I feel about puzzle games. I loved the hell out of Braid but didn't finish it for the same reasons. I played about 3/4 of the way through both of them and put them down. Puzzle games just don't grab me like others do. So, I'd say that I agree with Jeff's statement that the game became dull after a while, but I'd point my reasoning at my own tastes rather than knocking the game's puzzles.

#178 Posted by Zlimness (555 posts) -

I thought the first half of the game was awesome, when it was all about atmosphere. The second half is all about puzzles and I didn't like that. Kind of felt like they made this short game and somebody came to them and said "make it twice as long" and they filled out the rest with puzzles, which bummed me out. But I definitely think people should try the game, it's one of the more important arcade games this year.

#179 Posted by NTM (7379 posts) -

It might be good, but I didn't feel like playing it. Still don't.
#180 Posted by Jadeskye (4367 posts) -

I was hooked from start to finish. played that game in one sitting.

#181 Edited by Jeust (10647 posts) -
@Milkman said:

" I don't understand how $15 for 3 hours of entertainment is absurd to some people. Do you go to the movie theater? You pay $10 or more for an hour and a half to 2 hour movie. What's the difference? I thought we were passed the point where a game needed to be 30 hours long to be great. If you want to argue the quality of the content in Limbo, fine. But this "too expensive" argument is tired and baseless.  "

Not when compared with games cheaper or at the same price with three or four times the length, and content.  
 
For the price it goes for there are much better games.  
 
Like I said before it launched, and thought when I played the demo: there are free games that offer more than Limbo. Definitely not my cup of tea. 
#182 Edited by MindOST (215 posts) -

Loved the game. 
 
But everyone's entitled to their opinion. I didn't care for Super Meat Boy all that much beyond it's cutscenes, music, and replay feature.

#183 Posted by project343 (2825 posts) -
@TooWalrus said:
" I haven't played it, but I understand the criticism. $15 is a lot to pay for 3 hours of silhouette art style. I'll probably pick it up if it goes on sale, or if I get super bored with the hundred other games I should be playing. "
If you're going to look at games in a dollar per hour ratio, at least do it fairly.  
 
Limbo: $15 for 3 hours - $5 an hour. 
Standard retail game: $60 for 8 hours - $7.50 an hour. 
Movie ticket: $13 for 1.5 hours - $8.66 an hour. 
 
Now, besides this, the experience is what counts. No matter how they achieve the experience, it's all that matters in the end. Unless you really want to be going through company budgeting, resources used, etc. to find out the amount of man hours and factor that into the 'quality of the experience,' there's no argument here. Go work for an hour and save those $15 for Limbo. It's goddamn worth it, even if you finish it in one sitting. Because you know what? You'll remember that 1 sitting for years--that's what truly matters.
#184 Posted by jakob187 (21670 posts) -

I'm a middle-row guy on this one. 
 
I loved the game and thought it was a great look at how to make a minimalistic game that focuses so heavily on the actual GAMEPLAY!  There's no HUD, no voice acting, no music.  It's just you, gameplay, and atmosphere.  I enjoyed every moment of the game, and I felt significantly more intelligent by the time I finished a puzzle in it. 
 
With that said, there are three issues for me: 

  • Too artsy for its own damn good, to the point that I feel like I need to wear a beret and drink a mocha latte while reciting beat poetry based on the lyrics of My Chemical Romance or something
  • $15 is a hefty price tag for a game that many people will only play once, maybe twice, and it's only a handful of hours to walk through once you know all the puzzles
  • Too much trial and error the first time you are playing it, and if you haven't played it in a while, still too much trial and error.
#185 Posted by TooWalrus (13197 posts) -
@project343 You know, people keep making that argument, but I never buy 8-hour games at full price, and the movies is a place you go to have fun with your friends, which is more fun than playing most games alone could be.
#186 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

It was this year's Braid, and I say that pejoratively. I wouldn't want to be grouped together with that game.

#187 Posted by beej (1674 posts) -
@TooWalrus: I don't understand why it's an argument at all, if someone doesn't want to spend the money then that's fair. But I fail to see what that has to do with the game.
#188 Posted by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -

yeah its definitely an overrated game by brad. brad is starting to get full of shit. it was pretty neat little game but thats about it. i've seen a hundred clones of it on Newgrounds.com before. 

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