Please delete this concept

#1 Edited by Giantkitty (808 posts) -

** EDIT: I conceded that this should be a concept **

Do we need this concept when the vast majority of protagonists in video games are male? It's assumed the main characters are male.

For a similar argument see "What the Hell?" in the LGBT forum, where people were arguing as to whether there would be a "Straight" concept

#2 Posted by brukaoru (5079 posts) -

Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair.

#3 Posted by Gunner612 (4338 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
I agree. There are almost just as much female characters as there are male in games these days.
#4 Posted by MisterSpiffy (880 posts) -
Gunner said:
"brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
I agree. There are almost just as much female characters as there are male in games these days."
Yep, quite a few have cropped up in the last generation.
#5 Posted by Jayge_ (10221 posts) -

If you want to delete this, you should delete the women protagonist too. Just as there should be a straight-sexuality concept. Double standards are fail.

#6 Posted by Kush (8889 posts) -

Both Male and Female protagonist concepts should be deleted. It's that simple...both or neither.

#7 Posted by TheBeast (1931 posts) -

I'll re-iterate what I've been saying over and over again:

A concept page is an article. It's primary purpose is to have meaninful content describing said concept and it's use in games. There is room to have a possibly interesting article on the presence and use of Male Protagonists in games - I could write a research paper on it if I really wanted to. I could write a long an detailed article about how shoe manufactuers have been involved in getting their shoes in game on the Shoe page. Giant Bomb is an encylopaedia of gaming knowledge - if you can write something about it (and it has something to do with gaming...) there's no reason why it shouldn't be here.
Just because you can link 90% of the games on the site to it doesn't mean you have to - the linking system is an addition to an article, not the reason for them - don't abuse it and there won't be a problem. "This is why we can't have nice things!'
#8 Posted by Giantkitty (808 posts) -
Gunner said:
"brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
I agree. There are almost just as much female characters as there are male in games these days."
But how many are protagonists - female leads?

The character count is 1,830 female / 4,693 male / 349 other

25 characters in "female protagonist" / 84 women in "women protagonist"  / ??? male protagonists : is 1,000 too large a number?

If not, about 10% or less are female protagonists, I'm assuming there's no double counting of women/females and that they are in fact protagonists (some seemed suspicious at a glance)
#9 Posted by brukaoru (5079 posts) -

If other wiki mods agree with TheBeast, then both concepts are staying. I just want to see things equal. Both staying or both being deleted.

Giantkitty
said:

"Gunner said:
"brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
I agree. There are almost just as much female characters as there are male in games these days."
But how many are protagonists - female leads?

The character count is 1,830 female / 4,693 male / 349 other

25 characters in "female protagonist" / 84 women in "women protagonist"  / ??? male protagonists : is 1,000 too large a number?

If not, about 10% or less are female protagonists, I'm assuming there's no double counting of women/females and that they are in fact protagonists (some seemed suspicious at a glance)"

So a concept should not be allowed just because it is in the majority? ... If anything it makes more sense to keep this page than the female page in your argument, as per your example, because you say it is more prevalent in games!
#10 Posted by Jayge_ (10221 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"
So a concept should not be allowed just because it is in the majority? ... If anything it makes more sense to keep this page than the female page in your argument, as per your example, because you say it is more prevalent in games!"
It's essentially the same logic that's ok with slaughtering white people but calls RE5 racist because you kill African zombies. In Africa. It's flawed.
#11 Posted by Giantkitty (808 posts) -

>So a concept should not be allowed just because it is in the majority? ... If anything it makes more sense to keep this page than the >female page in your argument, as per your example, because you say it is more prevalent in games!

There comes a point when it's so prevelent, and the percentage of games under a concept is so high, it's just assumed, and if it's assumed what's the point? Games that are comprised of pixels are in the majority (there are a few vector graphic ones). Should we have a "pixel" concept and have people point farm  thousand of points? No, just assume the game is with pixels and add a concept of vector graphics, and for those few games, like Asteroids, Tempest, and Vectrex system games, add vector graphics.

My numbers were just a rough estimate to show that at least 90% of games have a male protagonist. I think that's a high enough percentage for people to assume that, unless told otherwise, there is a male protagonist.

And I would never want something that is "less prevelent" not to be included. For the most part, prevelence shouldn't be a factor, unless its so high that its assumed, or so low as to be in only one game ever, or in zero games.

My main issue with this is I don't want wiki pages to be overflowing and having the person looking at the page have to scroll down pages through information he doesn't want.

Someone should make rules as to what's assumed to be in a video game and roughly what constitutes for something to be assumed and that should be quantifiable

#12 Posted by Gump (565 posts) -
Giantkitty said:
"Do we need this concept when the vast majority of protagonists in video games are male? It's assumed the main characters are male.

For a similar argument see "What the Hell?" in the LGBT forum, where people were arguing as to whether there would be a "Straight" concept"
Giantkitty is right, please delete this concept!
This concept should be deleted, right now!
#13 Posted by MasturbatingBear (1781 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
dumb and illogical. nice job!
#14 Posted by Tearhead (2214 posts) -
Giantkitty said:
"Do we need this concept when the vast majority of protagonists in video games are male? It's assumed the main characters are male.

For a similar argument see "What the Hell?" in the LGBT forum, where people were arguing as to whether there would be a "Straight" concept"
Well if LGBT can have their own concept why can't we (straight people)?? I want a Straight concept!
#15 Posted by MasturbatingBear (1781 posts) -
Tearhead said:
"Giantkitty said:
"Do we need this concept when the vast majority of protagonists in video games are male? It's assumed the main characters are male.

For a similar argument see "What the Hell?" in the LGBT forum, where people were arguing as to whether there would be a "Straight" concept"
Well if LGBT can have their own concept why can't we (straight people)?? I want a Straight concept!"
but straight couldnt be a concept. Its not like its a big part of a game, lgbt plays its role in games. if a game creator goes out of its way to make a character gay then it does, in general you dont know or they are just considered straight. The idea of deleting female protagonists is a dumbass idea though, seeing as most are guys.
#16 Edited by jakob187 (21762 posts) -


People should give a shit less about their stupid fucking point score or how cute they can be with a topic and start being a little bit more intelligent and serious about this site that they claim to love so much.
But welcome to the internet, amirite?
#17 Posted by Tearhead (2214 posts) -
MasturbatingBear said:
"Tearhead said:
"Giantkitty said:
"Do we need this concept when the vast majority of protagonists in video games are male? It's assumed the main characters are male.

For a similar argument see "What the Hell?" in the LGBT forum, where people were arguing as to whether there would be a "Straight" concept"
Well if LGBT can have their own concept why can't we (straight people)?? I want a Straight concept!"
but straight couldnt be a concept. Its not like its a big part of a game, lgbt plays its role in games. if a game creator goes out of its way to make a character gay then it does, in general you dont know or they are just considered straight. The idea of deleting female protagonists is a dumbass idea though, seeing as most are guys."
Well if a game is made where a man and a woman have sex then the Straight concept does play a role in the game.  If it's not a big enough role to be considered a concept then LGBT shouldn't either.  You can't give it special attention just because it's LGBT... ok, maybe the "T" part, I guess that's a big enough concept.
#18 Posted by Giantkitty (808 posts) -

>Well if a game is made where a man and a woman have sex then the Straight concept does play a role in the game.

If there's "man and woman" sex, then it's covered under the topic of "sex" (I suppose someone could change that to "straight sex")
If it's "gay/lesbian/bisexual" it's under lgbt

Again my point isn't "rightness" or "wrongness" it's about succintness and not having wiki pages bursting with trivial concepts.

Let's take Mario, at the time of the is writing he has 95 concepts under him (some I feel that should be deleted - is "character selection screen" relevent to him as a character?). Do we want a page with hundreds of concepts like
"two eyes" "one nose" "is not in an Xbox shooting game" "ten fingers" "two hands" "two legs" "two feet" "has a pancreas (he's a human - so one could argue he has one)" "non-metallic (he's not a robot)" "creatures under ten feet tall' "creatures under eleven feet tall""creatures under n feet tall"?

Every single one of those concepts are true, but you could have an infinite number of  true concepts, but of really of no use to anyone, except possibly a Martian who never heard of "Mario," long and winding pages are a turn-off, it's not serving anyone.
Does anyone go to a character, and not seeing this "straight" concept wonder if they're straight or not? No, it's just assumed (it's a lot more likely someone would ask if they're gay or not - then you can put it in - and you can always add a note like "some people think that character is gay" when submitting lgbt to that character)

As to asking whether it is "fair" or not? Like I said before, they're video game characters - they're not going to get "upset." Why are people championing for rights of things that are just pixels? It's an absurd argument.

#19 Edited by brukaoru (5079 posts) -
MasturbatingBear said:
"brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
dumb and illogical. nice job!"
How is it dumb and illogical? It's ridiculous to say that female protagonists should stay just because they are the minority and males should be deleted just because they are the majority.

Giantkiitty said:
As to asking whether it is "fair" or not? Like I said before, they're video game characters - they're not going to get "upset." Why are people championing for rights of things that are just pixels? It's an absurd argument.
GiantBomb's wikis are created by the users of this site. If the majority think it's unfair, then I think that should be taken into consideration.. Oh wait, the majority doesn't matter right? Because you think a concept that is in less games deserves to be here more than a concept that's in more games.

I'm not going to argue that there are definitely some silly concepts in the GB database, but to pick out this one and say, "this has to go," when there are others that could be argued is ridiculous. And yes, I do think it's unfair to have female protagonists and no males, that's my opinion and how I feel about it. I will still stand by my opinion that either male protagonists and female protagonists both stay or they both go.

#20 Posted by chililili (1328 posts) -

Male protagonists need to stay due to the fact that there are male characters which are not protagonists, finding a male protagonist ina  character page tells you that the character is the protagonist of his/her game.

Straight concept is just stupid in the same way that there is no "men literature" in college and there is a woman lit course is because men are such a high amjority they do not have any link or trait worth studying (as men) as a group. They hav eno constants and they come from many different backgrounds whereas women authors have far much more defining characteristics that are prevalent (especially before the 1800s when only noble women or nuns could ever write) So having a straight concept is stupid having a LBGT one is not because that is a defining characteristic.

Also lines should be drawn as to what is a concept and what is not as it was said before charactersunder 10 fet tall is a valid one.

#21 Posted by LordAndrew (14430 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"MasturbatingBear said:
"brukaoru said:
"Then delete woman/female protagonist concept.

Only fair."
dumb and illogical. nice job!"
How is it dumb and illogical? It's ridiculous to say that female protagonists should stay just because they are the minority and males should be deleted just because they are the majority."
Don't even bother responding to MasturbatingBear if he's not going to elaborate. He's not worth it.

Granted, I don't necessarily agree with you, but it doesn't bother me either way. I'm not going around adding this concept to characters, but I'm not going to remove it if I see it attached. Unless it's attached to a female character or someone who's no a protagonist of course. :)
#22 Posted by Giantkitty (808 posts) -

>GiantBomb's wikis are created by the users of this site. If the majority think it's unfair, then I think that should be taken into >consideration.. Oh wait, the majority doesn't matter right?

It's ultimately up to Jeff: it's his site, and aren't we "taking it into consideration" now?
See also: appeal to popularity fallacy

>Male protagonists need to stay due to the fact that there are male characters which are not protagonists, finding a male >protagonist ina  character page tells you that the character is the protagonist of his/her game.

Actually that makes sense and nobody brought that up before. It seems reasonable, and since you can have a game with one protagonist and many non-protagonists. I won't argue any more about deleting it. The only problem now is "male protagonist" "female protagonist" and just plain "protagonist" - having people fill in "protagonist" and "male protagonist" seems redundant, but not "horrible" but there's a nonsexualized robot protagonists too.

#23 Posted by brukaoru (5079 posts) -
Giantkitty said:
"It's ultimately up to Jeff: it's his site,."
Absolutely, but I don't see the staff taking the time to comment on this anytime soon.

Giantkitty said:
"The only problem now is "male protagonist" "female protagonist" and just plain "protagonist" - having people fill in "protagonist" and "male protagonist" seems redundant, but not "horrible" but there's a nonsexualized robot protagonists too."
 I think "protagonist" should only be attached to characters that don't have a specific gender.
#24 Posted by LordAndrew (14430 posts) -
brukaoru said:
I think "protagonist" should only be attached to characters that don't have a specific gender.
Yeah, that's actually probably best. It pains me to think of how long the Protagonist page would take to load if it was attached indiscriminately to every protagonist in every game.
The separation of male and female (and non-gender or whatever) actually helps in that sense.
#25 Posted by Xymox (2115 posts) -
Well, gender wars aside... 

These are the ones up on the site so far:
Silent Protagonist, Geriatric Protagonist, Nameless Protagonist, Zombie Protagonist, Non-Humanoid Protagonist, Spikey-Haired Protagonist... 

So I see no harm in keeping Male Protagonist - even though I personally would prefer just "protagonist" (don't see the point in splitting the sexes) maybe some people will find it useful, like searching for a game that has a female lead or whatever. 

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