Have Mario games reached their peak?

#-49 Posted by YoctoYotta (540 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Cwaff said:

" @schizogony said:
" Man, I don't know. I haven't played a Mario game since the abysmal Mario Sunshine. "
Am I a bad person for thoroughly enjoying Mario Sunshine? "

Not at all, aside from those blasted blue coins, Sunshine was awesome. I always admired how well they were able to realize one cohesive tropical island design theme throughout. I've found that most people that didn't like Sunshine never realized that you could use FLUDD while running around by only half-way holding down the shoulder button. Everytime I explained that to a naysayer, their eyes lit up like they'd just experienced the biggest epiphany of their entire life.

#-48 Posted by YoctoYotta (540 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead said:

" Mario peaked at 64. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is uninspired and too segmented. I'm not being Armond White here, I just think the planet system kills a lot of the charm and the space theme just makes me wonder why they don't do Star Fox games anymore. "

I loved SM64 and Sunshine, but I'll take the superb, focused game play over big open levels any day. To call either Galaxy uninspired is a real unfortunate use of words. That's like calling the latest greatest car "uninspired" for continuing to use wheels and an engine.

#-47 Posted by Ignor (2372 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Hailinel said:

" @Ignor said:
" Super Mario Sunshine had the best atmosphere >=| Also this topic is 3 months old. "
@Deusoma said:
" Personally, I thought Mario peaked at Sunshine, but then that's just my opinion. "
You're both crazy. "

Best atmosphere, not best game.
I'd rather visit Delfino Island than any of those crazy galaxies.

#-46 Posted by JJOR64 (18213 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

The first post looks like it's just copied and pasted from some other site.

#-45 Posted by RaceKickfist (217 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

I think when we start hearing things about a "realistic, gritty mario FPS" we can start worrying about whether he's hit his peak.

#-44 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

Mario has definitely not reached his peak. His games are getting better and better.

And Sunshine was at the very least a decent game. Screw anyone who disagrees.

#-43 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@YoctoYotta said:

" @HandsomeDead said:
" Mario peaked at 64. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is uninspired and too segmented. I'm not being Armond White here, I just think the planet system kills a lot of the charm and the space theme just makes me wonder why they don't do Star Fox games anymore. "
I loved SM64 and Sunshine, but I'll take the superb, focused game play over big open levels any day. To call either Galaxy uninspired is a real unfortunate use of words. That's like calling the latest greatest car "uninspired" for continuing to use wheels and an engine. "

But no one is going to call the greatest car 'the most innovative car of all time' without taking into account that no one makes that kind of car anymore anyway.

#-42 Posted by Icemael (6115 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead said:

" @YoctoYotta said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" Mario peaked at 64. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is uninspired and too segmented. I'm not being Armond White here, I just think the planet system kills a lot of the charm and the space theme just makes me wonder why they don't do Star Fox games anymore. "
I loved SM64 and Sunshine, but I'll take the superb, focused game play over big open levels any day. To call either Galaxy uninspired is a real unfortunate use of words. That's like calling the latest greatest car "uninspired" for continuing to use wheels and an engine. "
But no one is going to call the greatest car 'the most innovative car of all time' without taking into account that no one makes that kind of car anymore anyway. "

They will. Especially if it provides a better driving experience than almost every other contemporary car.

#-41 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Icemael said:

" @HandsomeDead said:
" @YoctoYotta said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" Mario peaked at 64. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is uninspired and too segmented. I'm not being Armond White here, I just think the planet system kills a lot of the charm and the space theme just makes me wonder why they don't do Star Fox games anymore. "
I loved SM64 and Sunshine, but I'll take the superb, focused game play over big open levels any day. To call either Galaxy uninspired is a real unfortunate use of words. That's like calling the latest greatest car "uninspired" for continuing to use wheels and an engine. "
But no one is going to call the greatest car 'the most innovative car of all time' without taking into account that no one makes that kind of car anymore anyway. "
They will. Especially if it provides a better driving experience than almost every other contemporary car. "

Show me the contemporary platformers that Super Mario Galaxy 2 has outperformed.

#-40 Posted by Kjellm87 (1728 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

Mario and his games is awesome, and that's enough for me.

#-39 Posted by Icemael (6115 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead said:

" @Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" @YoctoYotta said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" Mario peaked at 64. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is uninspired and too segmented. I'm not being Armond White here, I just think the planet system kills a lot of the charm and the space theme just makes me wonder why they don't do Star Fox games anymore. "
I loved SM64 and Sunshine, but I'll take the superb, focused game play over big open levels any day. To call either Galaxy uninspired is a real unfortunate use of words. That's like calling the latest greatest car "uninspired" for continuing to use wheels and an engine. "
But no one is going to call the greatest car 'the most innovative car of all time' without taking into account that no one makes that kind of car anymore anyway. "
They will. Especially if it provides a better driving experience than almost every other contemporary car. "
Show me the contemporary platformers that Super Mario Galaxy 2 has outperformed. "

When I said contemporary cars I meant contemporary games. So what if almost nobody makes platformers anymore? I (and the reviewers) had more fun with Mario Galaxy 2 than I've with almost all other current-gen games I've played -- shooters, racing games, beat 'em ups et cetera.

And that's the point I was trying to make. If an innovative steam car came out and provided a better driving experience than the gas-driven ones that currently dominate the market, people would call it innovative and give it glowing reviews -- and that's how it should be.

#-38 Edited by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

Super Mario Galaxy outperforms every contemporary platformer. Although for the life of me I can't think of too many other contemporary platformers. Which kind of proves my first sentence.

#-37 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7420 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

I thought Galaxy 2 was rather disappointing. But I really loved the first one, so perhaps that's because it was more of a sequel rather than an original new Mario game.
Definitely wouldn't say they've peaked though, Galaxy is arguably the best in the whole series. I'd at least rate it next to Mario World.

#-36 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Icemael: Nobody makes platformers anymore, so it's suddenly completely groundbreaking and gets a pass because it's in an unsaturated genre. There's nothing special in Mario Galaxy 2 that hasn't been done before in the Mario series, besides for the gravity stuff, but because it's not modern military, everyone loves it. Same thing happened with the recent revival of beat 'em ups. Combine nostalgia with something that is a novelty and everyone loves it.

#-35 Posted by bartok (2371 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

Mario will never peak. I thought Mario peaked after Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario RPG, Mario and Luigi, Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Mario Galaxy 2.

#-34 Posted by ryanwho (12083 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead: Or people like fun things. We get that you don't get Galaxy, but you need to understand that people like the games because they're genuinely fun. They're not being "fooled" into it, and you're not smarter than anyone for being a joyless dullard.

#-33 Edited by Icemael (6115 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead: "Besides the gravity stuff". The "gravity stuff" is kind of an important part, you know. Kind of like how the "cover stuff" is a pretty important part of Gears of War.

And everyone loves it because it's fun. Tight controls, varied, imaginative level design, great graphics, great music... nostalgia has very little to do with it. Aside from the one level built specifically to be nostalgic, I never felt any nostalgia -- and I seriously doubt others did.

#-32 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@ryanwho: Perhaps not fooled, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who played Galaxy loved it because it reminded them of the Mario they loved as a child and all those callbacks got the nostalgia flowing. I'm obviously missing the point but when people just tell me they found it fun, that's great and everything, but talking like it's not a step backwards in game design from Mario 64 and Sunshine just seems bizarre to me.

#-31 Posted by ryanwho (12083 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

Dude you basically state Galaxy fans are simpletons being cheaply tricked into liking something for artificial reasons then wonder you're not being treated in a civil matter. Get real.

#-30 Posted by Hailinel (18516 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@HandsomeDead said:

" @ryanwho: Perhaps not fooled, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who played Galaxy loved it because it reminded them of the Mario they loved as a child and all those callbacks got the nostalgia flowing. I'm obviously missing the point but when people just tell me they found it fun, that's great and everything, but talking like it's not a step backwards in game design from Mario 64 and Sunshine just seems bizarre to me. "

So why do you think it's a step backwards? And Icemael is right; there's very little in terms of direct nostalgia in SMG2 aside from the Throwback Galaxy, in which the attempt to evoke nostalgia is intentional.

#-29 Posted by ComradeKhan (687 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

History says no... I thought mario had hit its peek with Mario 3 on the NES, then Super Mario came out on the SNES and I thought that had to be the best it was gonna get, but then Mario 64 came out and blew me away, now Mario Galaxy 2 is breaking records with its review scores... So yeah, I thought Mario had hit its peek along time ago but time marches on and Nintendo keeps pulling aces outta there sleeve.

#-28 Posted by owl_of_minerva (1455 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

That we're asking this of a series that has been relevant and quality for 25 years should already answer the question.

#-27 Posted by Gamer_152 (13339 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

We can't know that anything's peaked until after it's ended and the same applies for Mario. We could have assumed the series had peaked after Mario 64, we could have assumed it peaked after Mario Sunshine, but Nintendo kept on making awesome Mario games. I'm sure they'll have lots more quality Mario experiences to come but even if they didn't the fact that the series has stood up this well after 25 years is phenomenal.

Moderator

#-26 Posted by ComradeKhan (687 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@owl_of_minerva said:

" That we're asking this of a series that has been relevant and quality for 25 years should already answer the question. "

Well said

#-25 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Hailinel said:

" @HandsomeDead said:
" @ryanwho: Perhaps not fooled, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who played Galaxy loved it because it reminded them of the Mario they loved as a child and all those callbacks got the nostalgia flowing. I'm obviously missing the point but when people just tell me they found it fun, that's great and everything, but talking like it's not a step backwards in game design from Mario 64 and Sunshine just seems bizarre to me. "
So why do you think it's a step backwards? And Icemael is right; there's very little in terms of direct nostalgia in SMG2 aside from the Throwback Galaxy, in which the attempt to evoke nostalgia is intentional. "

Mario 64 and Sunshine had the large open world settings which felt like an expansion on the old 2D Super Mario Brothers levels. Even the Peach's Castle hub and Isle Delfino were full of personality but then in Galaxy, that's removed and each level becomes a tiny planetoid that you can run from A to B in a minute or two. There was that one Throwback level, but you don't think that the reuse of old themes, the change from hub to map screen, the majority of the levels playing out in 2D, the reuse of the Isle Delfino settings and probably more all count as reliance on nostalgia?

I think I've said this before but I can hum the Mario 64 soundtrack note for note, I can remember all little details about most of Super Mario Sunshine's levels, I remember almost nothing from Mario Galaxy 2 besides that I played it for maybe 3 hours or so when I first got it and ended up with 60+ lives and about halfway through the map screen. I don't go to Mario for a challenge but when I feel like I'm playing a mini game collection where every level is maybe 3 or so minutes and revolving around one core obstacle, it might be fun but it's a distraction at best and I don't see how that's GOTY gameplay.

I do think @ryanwho is onto something though. When I see the Wii constantly aiming for the lowest common denominator and Super Mario Galaxy 2 coming with a manual explaining controls, a fold out sheet explaining controls and a DVD explaining controls for a game that require minimum dexterity until you've beaten it and unlock the rock hard stuff, I really feel like Mario Galaxy 2 is a game either especially for children or people who haven't touched a console since the SNES who can reminisce about Nintendo of old but as someone who's in between, it does nothing for me.

Mario

Mario, Nintendo's mascot, has been around for over 30 years and still stars in many games, saving Princess Peach from Bowser's numerous plots. Mario is the best selling video game franchise of all time, with an estimated 200 million Mario games sold world-wide.

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