I desperately need some advice before I start hating this game.

#1 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Hi! Mark Of The Ninja is awesome! Ignore my previous rant here and instead focus on the comment below!

UPDATE

Okay, Mark Of The Ninja literally just clicked with me about five minutes ago. I'm still in the first... level? Area? Map? I'm not really sure how these areas are divided. It decided to drop me right at the beginning of the game, tutorial and all, and I took my time and I started playing around with the movements, grappling hook, wall mounting ability, hanging, etc. to understand what I could do with it and how it could be finessed. I then understood being able to dagger-hit things through doors and vents, and moving quickly out of line of sight to be the most effective.

I'm not really sure why, but nothing clicked with me the first time I played through this area, but going through a second time, it makes sense, so to speak. I'm loving it. The super snappy responsiveness of the controls make sense and is in like with Shank, and if I fuck something up, I can attach to a wall or exit the area to reset the room, which is nice.

So yeah, I'm liking this now.

#2 Posted by BisonHero (6045 posts) -

Daggers are mostly used to take out lights; sometimes you can use them to cut down hanging objects so they fall and kill enemies. Daggers can also be thrown at objects that make noise, like a gong or something, where the object isn't destroyed but distracts guards by making noise. You can throw daggers directly at a guard, which doesn't damage them, but it lures them into walking towards whatever location you were in when you threw it. I don't know what part of that process qualifies as "all this shit"; you hold down the button to stop time while you aim, then aiming takes a second or two. You have a bunch of possible targets, so I don't know how they could possibly streamline it more.

Isn't run mapped to left trigger? I remember it seeming fine.

Anyway, it sounds like you're not going to like it, and that's fine.

#3 Posted by RawknRo11a (549 posts) -

Almost sounds like this might not be your game as it is HEAVILY based around stealth. You CAN play however you'd like but it really is meant to be played as a stealth game...

You really should try and stick with it though as it is a hell of a game. Take your time, and if your not sure whats what I think their are some tutorials and I seem to remember them giving you some basics early on in the game.

#4 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@BisonHero: You're misunderstanding the point of this topic: I want to like this, but I feel the game hasn't told me all I need to know to have fun and be useful within the confines of the game's systems, so I'm hoping through this topic and talking to people who've played the game, osmosis will take over and I'll understand more of the systems and tools by talking to people about it.

@RawknRo11a: Thanks! I'll give it a shot.

#5 Posted by jsnyder82 (725 posts) -

The controls took a little time for me to get used to. The crawling up the walls anyway. After a while, you'll be able to control with ease. Just takes a bit of time fiddling with them.

You, however, are probably not going to like it. I'm not entirely sure why somebody who hates stealth games bought this in the first place.

#6 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

@Napalm said:

Like, what the fuck am I missing? :/

You're missing the fact that Mark of the Ninja is a clumsy attempt at a stealth game. The stuff it was getting praise for (visually representing all of the stealthy mechanics on screen) has been done before by better games. Most notably Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. There's a weird input delay on Mark that just isn't present in most 2D games. I'd liken it to the input delay on Fez. It's that bad.

I'm sorry that you wasted $15 on what is a poor man's attempt at a stealth game, but the game won't at any point get better. Hell, something tells me if you're having a hard enough time with it 20 minutes in, you're going to put a foot through your TV once you get to the lasers of doom a couple hours in. Mark of the Ninja is just not fun and completely misses the point of stealth games by being archaic in its controls and being far too interested in showing you pretty animations than giving you fluid, dynamic control over your player character. And all of this is coming from someone who traditionally loves stealth games.

TL;DR - sorry dude, you bought a really crappy game.

#7 Posted by nail1080 (1975 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Napalm said:

Like, what the fuck am I missing? :/

You're missing the fact that Mark of the Ninja is a clumsy attempt at a stealth game. The stuff it was getting praise for (visually representing all of the stealthy mechanics on screen) has been done before by better games. Most notably Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. There's a weird input delay on Mark that just isn't present in most 2D games. I'd liken it to the input delay on Fez. It's that bad.

I'm sorry that you wasted $15 on what is a poor man's attempt at a stealth game, but the game won't at any point get better. Hell, something tells me if you're having a hard enough time with it 20 minutes in, you're going to put a foot through your TV once you get to the lasers of doom a couple hours in. Mark of the Ninja is just not fun and completely misses the point of stealth games by being archaic in its controls and being far too interested in showing you pretty animations than giving you fluid, dynamic control over your player character. And all of this is coming from someone who traditionally loves stealth games.

TL;DR - sorry dude, you bought a really crappy game.

lol this!!!

Play either Splinter Cell Conviction, Hitman Absolutio/Blood Money, Deus Ex HR, or Dishonoured if you want a quality stealth game, MOTN is a POS, I don't understand all the hype around it....

#8 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

TL;DR - sorry dude, you bought a really crappy game.

Motherfuck.

#9 Posted by DarthOrange (3803 posts) -

I didn't like it either. Bought it during the holiday sale and thought it was poop. Stopped half way through the second level. The discounts I got on Super Meat Boy and Deadlight made me feel less bad about buying this.

#10 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@DarthOrange said:

I didn't like it either. Bought it during the holiday sale and thought it was poop. Stopped half way through the second level. The discounts I got on Super Meat Boy and Deadlight made me feel less bad about buying this.

Man.

@nail1080 said:

Play either Splinter Cell Conviction, Hitman Absolutio/Blood Money, Deus Ex HR, or Dishonoured if you want a quality stealth game, MOTN is a POS, I don't understand all the hype around it....

Damn it. I liked Deus Ex: Human Revolution quite a bit. Dishonored, hm...

#11 Posted by nail1080 (1975 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@DarthOrange said:

I didn't like it either. Bought it during the holiday sale and thought it was poop. Stopped half way through the second level. The discounts I got on Super Meat Boy and Deadlight made me feel less bad about buying this.

Man.

@nail1080 said:

Play either Splinter Cell Conviction, Hitman Absolutio/Blood Money, Deus Ex HR, or Dishonoured if you want a quality stealth game, MOTN is a POS, I don't understand all the hype around it....

Damn it. I liked Deus Ex: Human Revolution quite a bit. Dishonored, hm...

Ya the world of Dishonoured is extremely dull IMO compared to that of Deus Ex HR, but if you just play it for the pure stealth gameplay it can be entertaining enough, much more than that shite 2D ninja game

#12 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@DarthOrange said:

I didn't like it either. Bought it during the holiday sale and thought it was poop. Stopped half way through the second level. The discounts I got on Super Meat Boy and Deadlight made me feel less bad about buying this.

Man.

@nail1080 said:

Play either Splinter Cell Conviction, Hitman Absolutio/Blood Money, Deus Ex HR, or Dishonoured if you want a quality stealth game, MOTN is a POS, I don't understand all the hype around it....

Damn it. I liked Deus Ex: Human Revolution quite a bit. Dishonored, hm...

If you're looking for a good stealth game I'd recommend Conviction or Hitman. Dishonoured is a really weird game in that there are stealth mechanics but they function on a completely different level than what most games do. For instance, in Splinter Cell: Conviction when you're in dark shadows you are invisible to the enemy (unless they got flashlights and are shining them at you), while in Dishonoured being in shadow does not hide you from enemies. You're just camping in a dark spot of the map.

Dishonoured might click for you, but know going in that the "stealth" of that game deals primarily in line of sight and breaking that line.

#13 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

If you're looking for a good stealth game I'd recommend Conviction or Hitman. Dishonoured is a really weird game in that there are stealth mechanics but they function on a completely different level than what most games do.

Dishonoured might click for you, but know going in that the "stealth" of that game deals primarily in line of sight and breaking that line.

I'm not really looking for a stealth game, I was just trying to play more games from this year to do my list, and Mark Of The Ninja was the second game to come up, so I'm mostly looking at Dishonored now. (I still want to put more time in Mark Of The Ninja. I don't want to completely dismiss a game that I dropped $15 on.)

Okay, let me put it this way: I really enjoyed the stealthy takedown stuff in Far Cry 3 with the outposts and string executions and the varied ways you can take down enemies. Not sure if Dishonored is similar in that regard. I also have no bias against two-dimensional stuff considering I love Shank and old school brawlers.

#14 Posted by ThePaleKing (613 posts) -

@Napalm: Yeah, Dishonored is that, but with magical powers. You can stop time and slit like four throats at once, then blink off a roof and drop assassinate some dude on the ground, then stop time again and murder all the rest of the dudes. It's "stealth" the same way Hotline Miami is; kill everyone fast enough that they don't get a chance to react.

#15 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

If you're looking for a good stealth game I'd recommend Conviction or Hitman. Dishonoured is a really weird game in that there are stealth mechanics but they function on a completely different level than what most games do.

Dishonoured might click for you, but know going in that the "stealth" of that game deals primarily in line of sight and breaking that line.

I'm not really looking for a stealth game, I was just trying to play more games from this year to do my list, and Mark Of The Ninja was the second game to come up, so I'm mostly looking at Dishonored now. (I still want to put more time in Mark Of The Ninja. I don't want to completely dismiss a game that I dropped $15 on.)

Okay, let me put it this way: I really enjoyed the stealthy takedown stuff in Far Cry 3 with the outposts and string executions and the varied ways you can take down enemies. Not sure if Dishonored is similar in that regard. I also have no bias against two-dimensional stuff considering I love Shank and old school brawlers.

Dishonoured kind of has that stuff, but it is completely tied into killing enemies, and that game punishes you severely for killing enemies (the ending goes real bad if you kill people). I think if you're feeling a pull toward that game, go into it for the lore of the world and try to ignore how the game wants you to play it. Play it in the style you want and try to ignore the checklists at the end of every level. If you want to walk down every street and murder every fool, do so. If you want to play as stealthy as you can but put fools down when they spot you, do that. Don't make the same mistake I made and try to ghost through every level on the first run through.

Also, go ahead and put podcasts or music on while you play. The story is absolute bunk.

#16 Posted by RedCream (704 posts) -

If it displeased you 20 minutes in then you won't find any satisfaction for this game. I'm really enjoying the game so far and never felt the core mechanic is clumsy at all but different strokes for different folks I guess.

#17 Posted by Milkman (16479 posts) -

I have literally no idea where these complaints are coming from. I had absolutely none of them. If you just hate stealth games, then I guess it's not for you. But if you know you hate stealth games, why are you playing it in the first place?

#18 Posted by thebeastwithtwobacks (140 posts) -

I never had any complaints with the gameplay or anything, except that it was boring. Being able to see where enemies are looking and being able to pause the game to plan out where to throw darts/noise makers/etc. just made the game a bit too easy to be fun, in my opinion. All of the info the UI gives you is nice, but it, ultimately, just makes you too powerful. I got probably 75% of the way through the game before I realized i was having no fun and quit.

#19 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not. It's consistently making people's top 10 lists. Mark of the Ninja is not a bad game, let alone a shit one, it's just a game which not for you yet is still a really good game.

#20 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not.

I don't think you understand how opinions work.

#21 Posted by CornBREDX (4738 posts) -

I like stealth games (Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow is one of my favorite games of all time) and I didn't like Mark of the Ninja as much as other people. 
 
It's a good game in some ways but I found it incredibly annoying to play at times. I didn't find the story to be all that interesting either. 
 
It's not a bad game, and it might be at the bottom of my top 10 this year, but it's not THAT good (for me).

#22 Posted by deox (210 posts) -

Truthfully, if you hate stealth games so much you probably shouldn't have bought Mark of the Ninja in the first place. It seems like you should have saw this coming... all I can say is give it a chance, it's well worth it.

#23 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@Inkerman said:

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not.

I don't think you understand how opinions work.

I know they're opinions, they're just objectively wrong opinions.

#24 Posted by Sargus (720 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon: I disagree very strongly with this. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like other stealth games too. I liked Chaos Theory, I enjoy Hitman, I really like Deus Ex and Dishonored is one of my Top 10 games of the year... But Mark of the Ninja is ALSO one of my Top 10 games of the year. I find it incredible, and don't know what you're talking about in terms of "input delay" or it being clumsy. I feel more like a badass in Mark of the Ninja than in many other stealth games, because I feel so much in control. The way the game handles makes me feel like I can accomplish very tricky stuff very easily.

All that said, TC, it sounds like you picked the wrong stealth game to get you over your hatred of stealth games. I think you might have better luck with Dishonored, as that allows you to get away with more in terms of action.

@DarthOrange: You liked Deadlight over Mark of the Ninja? Dang. I thought Deadlight was extremely disappointing. It becomes incredibly frustrating and feels like a lot of wasted potential.

#25 Posted by ApolloBob (570 posts) -

I hate broccoli, but everyone raved about this great broccoli dish at a local restaurant so i tried it and immediately vomited OH GOD EVERYONE HELP ME.

#26 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@ApolloBob said:

I hate broccoli, but everyone raved about this great broccoli dish at a local restaurant so i tried it and immediately vomited OH GOD EVERYONE HELP ME.

Hey, broccoli is fucking awesome.

@Inkerman said:

@Napalm said:

@Inkerman said:

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not.

I don't think you understand how opinions work.

I know they're opinions, they're just objectively wrong opinions.

I've had a shit experience so far. I'm willing and more than willing to keep playing it. You cannot discount my experience as objectively wrong, because it isn't.

#27 Posted by Xeirus (1292 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

@Napalm said:

@Inkerman said:

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not.

I don't think you understand how opinions work.

I know they're opinions, they're just objectively wrong opinions.

Yuuup.

There's no way you're 20 minutes in and already mad at the game. If you are seriously making an honest attempt at liking this game (as you claim you are) then there is no way you could flat out hate it, at least not for the reasons you're claiming.

The game explains everything clear as day, how can you claim it has not explained the mechanics? It gives you very specific examples each time a new piece of equipment is introduced. You can also freeze time and grapple to a grate and get away easy as hell if you mess up, then just try it again.

Again, I don't think you are sincerely trying to like this game. It honestly sounds like you played for a half hour and then got pissed that you aren't very good at, then came here to bitch about it. I'm not very good a stealth games in general, nor am I really fond of them over any other game type, but this game was one of the best stealth games I have played in years and years.

#28 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@Inkerman said:

@Napalm said:

@Inkerman said:

I kind of object to people calling it a 'crappy' or 'shit' game, because it's not.

I don't think you understand how opinions work.

I know they're opinions, they're just objectively wrong opinions.

I've had a shit experience so far. I'm willing and more than willing to keep playing it. You cannot discount my experience as objectively wrong, because it isn't.

No, I'm not saying you can't say your experience is shitty or that you don't like this game (that's perfectly valid opinions because your own feelings), what I'm saying is (and this was never directed at you, just other people in the thread) you can't say "my experience is shitty because it's a shitty game" (and I know you're not saying this, but other people were), because Mark of the Ninja is, objectively, not a shitty game, in fact it's quite good. But like I said, not directed at you.

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (14511 posts) -

I know I'm not adding much here but I got the PC version as a gift the other day and I felt like the controls were actually super tight and responsive and everything at least to me seemed to be very apparent on how it worked. I dunno that might just be because I play a shit ton of stealth games but hey... I'm liking it.

#30 Posted by ApolloBob (570 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@ApolloBob said:

I hate broccoli, but everyone raved about this great broccoli dish at a local restaurant so i tried it and immediately vomited OH GOD EVERYONE HELP ME.

Hey, broccoli is fucking awesome.

I like this reply. You're alright by me, Napalm, you're alright. Sorry you're not enjoying the game though.

#31 Posted by Rowr (5474 posts) -

This game rules.

Maybe try not to suck at it so much or don't play it, because it seems like stealth games are not for you.

#32 Posted by Baillie (4025 posts) -

I'm the biggest stealth fan in the world. I GUARANTEE YOU THIS. I found mark of the ninja to be somewhat lacking in the stealth capacity. I got quite a bit through it and never experienced much more than a few simple stealth mechanics. It's a fun platformer, but it is no where near the standards of some games when it comes to stealth. Even Far Cry 3 is head and shoulders above this.

#33 Posted by vikingdeath1 (925 posts) -

It's the first game since Bioshock that I liked so much that I wanted to S-rank it.

and if you don't like stealth, I never tried it, but you can "spec" you character through upgrades to be more adept at the head-on fighting, adding a slide tackle and stun moves, and there's a suit you can unlock (by completing combat-related challenges, if you're so inclined) that makes you deal more damage and stagger guys quickly and gain health on kills. If you give it a little investment it can be an incredibly rewarding game.

#34 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@BisonHero: @Milkman: @Oldirtybearon: @vikingdeath1: @Rowr: @Inkerman: @Xeirus: @deox:

Okay, Mark Of The Ninja literally just clicked with me about five minutes ago. I'm still in the first... level? Area? Map? I'm not really sure how these areas are divided. It decided to drop me right at the beginning of the game, tutorial and all, and I took my time and I started playing around with the movements, grappling hook, wall mounting ability, hanging, etc. to understand what I could do with it and how it could be finessed. I then understood being able to dagger-hit things through doors and vents, and moving quickly out of line of sight to be the most effective.

I'm not really sure why, but nothing clicked with me the first time I played through this area, but going through a second time, it makes sense, so to speak. I'm loving it. The super snappy responsiveness of the controls make sense and is in like with Shank, and if I fuck something up, I can attach to a wall or exit the area to reset the room, which is nice.

So yeah, I'm liking this now.

#35 Posted by Animasta (14632 posts) -

I lkie the game but maybe because I feel 2d makes stealth... easier? I guess? (I usually dislike stealth games, blood money aside) I was having a poor as time as your first post was for a little bit but I got it as well, and I feel like the progression's pretty well done.

#36 Posted by DarthOrange (3803 posts) -
@Sargus said: 

@DarthOrange: You liked Deadlight over Mark of the Ninja? Dang. I thought Deadlight was extremely disappointing. It becomes incredibly frustrating and feels like a lot of wasted potential.

It definitely has a strong opening, and while the platforming is no where near perfect, it is good enough. I would love to see someone build upon the foundation in place. I went into it with zero expectations though, and I thought the pros outweighed the cons and it was fun. With Mark of the Ninja I was going in after hearing all the hype this site had given it and I was a big fan of the original Shank game. I was kinda hoping that you could run through it Shank style if you wanted to and the stealth stuff was optional. Phooey on me for not doing anymore research before but I bought them on a whim since they were on sale. 
#37 Posted by Milkman (16479 posts) -

@Napalm: Glad to hear it. It's a great game.

#38 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -
@Milkman

@Napalm: Glad to hear it. It's a great game.

Yep. It's really something special. One of my favorite "power fantasy" games. Terrifying guards by hanging corpses is among my most satisfying moments this year.
#39 Edited by Nights (602 posts) -

@nail1080 said:

lol this!!!

Play either Splinter Cell Conviction, Hitman Absolutio/Blood Money, Deus Ex HR, or Dishonoured if you want a quality stealth game, MOTN is a POS, I don't understand all the hype around it....

Splinter Cell: Conviction a quality stealth game? Bwahaha.

#40 Posted by beepmachine (618 posts) -

@Napalm: I'm late to this thread, so I didn't get to see what it was that was troubling you. What was it? I know the game definitely takes a little bit before it really starts rolling.

#41 Posted by BisonHero (6045 posts) -

@Napalm: Glad you had a sudden reversal of opinion on it, even in spite of your dislike of stealth games!

Still not sure what didn't really click at first with you, but I guess the game is a little slow in giving you the throwing knives and the other various items, and I agree that the first level is much more fun when you replay it with more equipment. It's actually a little tough the first time, since you don't quite know how the game works, plus you're missing 90% of the tools in the game and only have the default stealth kills at your disposal.

#42 Edited by Baillie (4025 posts) -

@HumanoidTyphoon said:

Splinter Cell: Conviction a quality stealth game? Bwahaha.

Yep, it is. One of the best.

Come back when you've actually played it.

#43 Posted by nail1080 (1975 posts) -

@Baillie said:

@HumanoidTyphoon said:

Splinter Cell: Conviction a quality stealth game? Bwahaha.

Yep, it is. One of the best.

Come back when you've actually played it.

indeed it's got a decenct so campaign and if you have a mate online or at home the co op has many hours of good content

#44 Posted by Whitestripes09 (396 posts) -

I would say my first stealth games I played was the Splinter Cell series. I liked the idea that the game kind of gave you a choice (especially later in chaos theory) on giving the player the choice to be lethal or non lethal. I thought it was great and innovating, but then recently with some of the more newer stealth game titles this year such as Mark of the Ninja and Hitman Absolution. They put a big fat score board on the upper left hand corner and if you "mess up" at all you get a slap on the wrist with big negative numbers as if saying "you're doing it wrong". This is something that comes up more in Hitman Absolution where if you do anything but kill the target or get to an area without disturbing the area you get negative points. It seems like such a waste to add guns in the game or even add that point shooting mechanic when it's just going to make me feel guilty about going in guns glazing if I get caught.

Mark of the Ninja does this better though since the game is more snappy and flowing though.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.