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    Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes

    Game » consists of 10 releases. Released Feb 24, 2000

    One of the most legendary crossover fighting game series is thrown into high gear with a whopping 56-character roster and new three-on-three tag-team gameplay.

    so my husband forced me to get this...

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    C2C

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    #51  Edited By C2C
    @Al3xand3r said:

    " Um, breaking through a wall or whatever in DOA is just eye candy, nothing more. As for the walls in some stages, Virtua Fighter did that first. It also didn't keep it for a reason as it makes gameplay worse. Tekken tried it and then ditched it also. "

    Tekken actually still has walls. It makes you more aware of where you are in the stage, which is a good thing in my opinion.  In any case though I can see how people may not like it. 
     
    As for the actual arguement at hand here, I only pose one question to you floodiaustus.  Is innovation really that important for a game to be fun?  Take a game like Tetris for example, and you can see that there was no new innovative feature in most of the series' iterations yet is still consistently good.  I consider this the same situation with the fighting game genre.  It doesn't need innovation, it is fine as long as it provides the same quality of fighting. 
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    Al3xand3r

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    #52  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Well it at least removed uneven environments like in Tekken 4, yeah? Or do they still have that?
     
    Also I wanted to add that the level "interactivity" like breaking through walls or falling through balconies is no different to Morta Kombat's stuff, breaking through ceilings or floors or whatever to fight in a different area. It's really nothing more than a visual treat that doesn't affect gameplay.

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    C2C

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    #53  Edited By C2C

    They did remove the uneven enviroments.  Now that I did not like at all :P

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    Al3xand3r

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    #54  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Good, good.
     
    Another addition, most 2D fighters also have level boundaries that allow you to corner your opponent, if that's your strategy. Sure, they don't have wall slams and such that the 3D fighters with walls do, but it affects gameplay too, depending on the character and player.

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    NinjaHunter

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    #55  Edited By NinjaHunter
    @floodiastus said:

    " @NinjaHunter said:

    " @floodiastus said:
    " @ThePhenomenal1 said:
    " @floodiastus: 
     
    the thing is though, fightings games really don't need to reinvent themselves. its never going to be the mass market casual friendly genre that everyone wants it to be. with the big exception of smash bros. (which i don't really consider a true fighting game), its always going to be the hardcore tournament focused players or the online scrubs who think they have the skills for kills because they learned something that works in a lag-centric setting. fight night is a boxing game. yea its been incredibly innovative as far as BOXING games go. its not a real fighting game though. so it undergoes a completely different design process.
     
    your original argument came in the form of 3d fighters. so i ask you, what have they done in the past 15 years that is a credit to the genre that extends past adding swords and titty physics? i'm pretty sure there must be something there, but i can't for the life of me think of something that sticks. "
    UFC has a totally different control scheme and groundgame Dead or Alive brought interactivity to stages Def Jam brought rhytm-fighting and also interactive stages PowerStone brought real free-roam, multi-stages, weapon pickups and 4 player matches  Toshinden actually brought 3d-field of movent which tekken didnt have. Fight Night brought the analogue Controls.  Whereass 2D fighter still uses the D-pad/Stick, usually 3-4 buttons. And the graphics still is utlized in exactly the same way in every game. When the 2D fighting games were kind of new there were innovation, like Art of Fighting zoomed into the sprites to give you a sense of depth, showdown brought weapons (which sure is standard in its own right now), punch out brought a new perspective (which isnt used anymore in 2d fighters/boxers), but since then not much has really happened. It's like every new 2D fighter is a copy of guilty gears/street fighter/king of fighters.   Just my 2 cents "
    The Power Stone and Toshinden examples are the only ones that work for this argument. As stated before UFC, Fightnight and Def Jam aren't really fighting games. And as for DOA bringing interactivity to stages in fighting games, it could be argued that Street Fighter 2 did that. "
    Why wouldnt def jam be a fighting game, because you can throw people (like in any 2D fighter), the latest Def Jam game was not a wrestling game.  DOAs stage interactivity is something completely more evolved than that of street fighter 2 innit ;) I would say 2D fighting games evolved this way: Exploding Fist ->  Street Fighter -> new gen (guilty gear etc)  Dont get me wrong, I would be more than happy if 2D fighters started bringing something new and fresh to the table, but I have been very let down by the recent releases the past years, we got the technology now to do insane things with 2D graphics, but I just see the same old game with different skins.....   Thing is, 2D fighterfans are known for being nostalgic and defensive of their nostalgia, so I dont see this argument going anywhere constructive :) "
    Is what DOA did with the backgrounds an evolved version of what street fighter 2 did yes but what does it add other than eye candy and not only is it  unneeded but it can take away the pressure game of trapping someone against the wall. If that's enough to warrant you putting DOA as a game that helped evolve the 3d fighting genre than I don't see how you can say 2d fighters have not evolved. Blazblue, for example, is clearly an evolution of guilty gear.  
     
    As for Def Jam, ok it did move away from the wrestling genre with Icon to resemble a more traditional fighter but it is a very shallow fighter. It tried to make a big change with a gimmick like controlling the background and left the actual punching very slow and easy to counter basically making every blocked move a parry. Which reduces it to throwing out a couple punches and kicks then grabbing them to toss them in the background and attempt to cause a big flashy explosion. Is it fun? Sure it can be fun but so is pretty much any decent fighter and most of those are much deeper.
     
    The problem I see with any fighter, 2d or 3d, trying to attempt to make a huge change to the formula always focuses on that one aspect and never tries to get the basics right. Which is why I like the smaller changes over time. Like canceling and linking->ex moves and parrying->focus attack and focus cancels.

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