A patch today meant to prepare MvC3 for an "event mode"  (which goes live this Friday) also featured some (not so) stealthy balance changes

So far its been confirmed that:

• Sentinel now has 905k health instead of 1.3 million,
• X-Factor untouched
• Cap infinite still in
• Akuma Infinite out
• Zero glitch still in
• DHC damage scaling reset glitch still in
• Haggar/Spencer DHC glitch is out
• Spencer lost some corner loop combo
• Ammy's Okami Shuffle does less damage, but damage seems to differ on characters

Since Capcom hasn't released any official patch notes or even said that this patch would change things, there is still a lot to be confirmed.

" Wait for real? The Sent and X-Factor thing seem fake... Sent at lower health than Dante is pretty hilarious though, it's like he's made out of alluminum foil now. "

Just fired up the game, Sent health nerf is real. X-factor seemed the same.

Apparently that silly Haggar/Spencer DHC glitch was removed too.

NEUTRALIZE! 
CARDBOARD FORCE! 
HYPER CARDBOARD FORCE!

When I saw a patch this morning, I smiled, having just purchased the game over the weekend. 
 
I really, really disliked Sentinel.

kinda glad this happened...  
doubt it'll stop people picking him though, might have less health but still has huge damage easy to do combos

Really don't understand the hate for Sentinel. I play him cause he's a fun character so less health won't stop me. 

Akuma infinite is gone
 
  

I'm glad the solution to "fixing" a balance issue is just reducing health.
 
Now Dante and Deadpool can wear Sent like a condom just like everyone else.

Updated OP to reflect known changes ATM.

Also, Capcom trolling:

Not sure how I feel about Sent HP nerf and Akuma Tatsu loop removal... other stuff is fine though. 
 
EDIT: And for the record I do not use Akuma and only use Sent in my troll Haggar / Sent / Phoenix team.

" Not sure how I feel about Sent HP nerf and Akuma Tatsu loop removal... other stuff is fine though.

They also stopped the way the drones spawn, now if you hit him, your combo won't be interrupted by the drones. 
 
I can't say I hate this patch because I didn't like Sent but I'm not sure it's a great move either.  We'll have to see.

"

Updated OP to reflect known changes ATM.

Also, Capcom trolling:

For the record I think this was a retarded move by Capcom. Just remove X-Factor. That would actually fix Sentinel and Phoenix. "

Sent lower HP might make me use him now. 
 
Been on the fence because he seemed a bit overkill at times. But man his assist really helps my Tron along with Ammy. 
 
The Morrigan meter thing can only go so far.

I'm glad Sentinel has been kinda kicked down, but I think it came too late.
 
MMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
 

@Hailinel: I hate these arguments but whatever here goes nothing.

At a month into the game, Sentinel has a lot going against him before today. He has the largest hitbox in the game, making him extremely susceptible to instant overheads. In most 1v1 matchups he is at a disadvantage. Sure he may have armor on his normals but they are slow and if you can bait them out and get around them then you basically get a free combo. If Sentinel gets a touch then its big damage. But What makes his damage so ridiculous? X-Factor.

With the way meter gain in this game is, Dark Phoenix is really easy to achieve. On paper, she only has 420k health (which is draining without healing field) and doesn't do that much damage. But why is she the most hated character amongst pretty much all top players? X-Factor.

If you showed up to a major tournament and asked every player there playing MvC3 if they would want X-Factor removed, I guarantee you pretty much every person would say yes. Even good, top players are expressing their disagreement on this nerf to Sentinel.

There is only one balance change the game needed at launch: remove X-Factor, or at least give an option to turn it off.

@StarvingGamer: Fair enough, but I've heard so many differing ideas on how to change X-Factor that it might be better to just make it an on/off option.

Honestly this whole thing makes the SF4 team look like geniuses. At least they waited a fucking year to touch Sagat.

"

@Hailinel: I hate these arguments but whatever here goes nothing.

At a month into the game, Sentinel has a lot going against him before today. He has the largest hitbox in the game, making him extremely susceptible to instant overheads. In most 1v1 matchups he is at a disadvantage. Sure he may have armor on his normals but they are slow and if you can bait them out and get around them then you basically get a free combo. If Sentinel gets a touch then its big damage. But What makes his damage so ridiculous? X-Factor.

With the way meter gain in this game is, Dark Phoenix is really easy to achieve. On paper, she only has 420k health (which is draining without healing field) and doesn't do that much damage. But why is she the most hated character amongst pretty much all top players? X-Factor.

If you showed up to a major tournament and asked every player there playing MvC3 if they would want X-Factor removed, I guarantee you pretty much every person would say yes. Even good, top players are expressing their disagreement on this nerf to Sentinel.

There is only one balance change the game needed at launch: remove X-Factor, or at least give an option to turn it off.

"

I'm honestly glad that Sentinel got nerfed. Now people will use different characters for a change other than a big robot that has a cheap spamming attack.

@animateria: I'm pretty sure if the option to turn off X-factor is added than X-factor will not be used in tournament play. In fact I bet most tournament organizers are in the camp of "fuck x-factor" and would turn off X-factor for tournament play.

I don't want to start a huge discussion on it, but my point is that most people agree with and would be fine with getting rid of it all together. When you discuss tweaks is where you still have a ton of disagreement.

so when does event mode go live?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the game is broken  
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they're trying to fix the game
 
No satisfying you people
  

@TechHits: March 25th, which is this friday. I'll update the OP to mention that.

Also apparently Ammy's Okami Shuffle now does less damage. In fact its getting different damage numbers on different characters (246K on Viper, 258K on Arthur, 290K on Deadpool).

imo xfactor should be changed to have no dmg boost and be able to break combos and snap back the comboer

All sentinal talk aside. What the heck is "event mode" anyway?

So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen.

" Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the game is broken  
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they're trying to fix the game
 
No satisfying you people
  

 

@TechHits: 25th "

 whatever you do you'll never make the internet happy.

" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "

" @ricetopher said:

" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "

Sounds more like a nerfed hitbox. "

Might be part of it, but from what I've read it sounds like no one is getting pre-patch damage out of it anymore. Funny enough, there was a video explaining fullscreen punishes for blocked Okami Shuffle for every character. I almost get the impression that this patch got held up like 3 weeks and couldn't be withdrawn.

How anyone can honestly defend the logic behind this patch is beyond me. Making the wrong nerfs after only one month is not how you balance a game. In fact all the changes I think this game could use (at this point) would invovlve buffs (other than nerfing/removing X-Factor). Just because we can have things changed more easily doesn't mean we should throw the idea of letting a game evolve first out the window.

I mean, imagine if MvC2 got this treatment? The things that were being complained about in the beginning aren't even top tier? If Capcom wants to make meaningful balance changes, they should wait at least a few months, if not longer.

"Just remove X-Factor. That would actually fix Sentinel and Phoenix."

"

Ammy's Okami Shuffle does less damage, but damage seems to differ on characters

                    

                "

People saying "oh they only waited a month", I say: they didn't. Checking patches from developers and Microsoft & Sony takes time. This patch is more of a "we wanted to ship it like that" patch, because they must've finished it shortly after the release.
I also think this is why no real glitches are fixed.
 
And removing X-Factor is ridiculous, it's basically the one big new thing they introduced. They wanted the comeback factor and they got it. It's Marvels ultra. But I would agree, that it is crazy-good.

" @StarvingGamer said:

" @ricetopher said:

" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "

Sounds more like a nerfed hitbox. "

Might be part of it, but from what I've read it sounds like no one is getting pre-patch damage out of it anymore. Funny enough, there was a video explaining fullscreen punishes for blocked Okami Shuffle for every character. I almost get the impression that this patch got held up like 3 weeks and couldn't be withdrawn.

How anyone can honestly defend the logic behind this patch is beyond me. Making the wrong nerfs after only one month is not how you balance a game. In fact all the changes I think this game could use (at this point) would invovlve buffs (other than nerfing/removing X-Factor). Just because we can have things changed more easily doesn't mean we should throw the idea of letting a game evolve first out the window.

I mean, imagine if MvC2 got this treatment? The things that were being complained about in the beginning aren't even top tier? If Capcom wants to make meaningful balance changes, they should wait at least a few months, if not longer.

"

@GetEveryone: X-Factor could work but its become so absurd. Removing it is a bit harsh but I think most people would agree with that over some form of changing it. And using Ultras from SF4 as a comparison isn't very smart either, I think most people wouldn't mind if they got removed.

Back to X-Factor, the point is that as it stands now it creates problems where there are none. Sentinel is fine. Phoenix is fine. X-Factor makes them a problem and even has some players calling for a ban on Phoenix.

@Rockdalf: You realize I'm far from alone on my stance, right? Just because I'm not a game developer means I can't have better ideas than the ones making the call? I'm all for Capcom improving their product, but as it is they are going in the opposite direction.

I swear its illegal to be logical about fighting games on this site

 removing it would render it a different game.  
 

And a better game. Seriously, how can you defend X-Factor Dark Phoenix as something that should be left untouched? There's "revenge meter" mechanics and then theres removing skill and turning the game into that of luck. 

X-Factor probably won't get removed but as it stands it creates problems that shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Sometimes I can be illogical, but I feel like this is a scenario where the logical solution to the obvious problem is pretty easy to pinpoint.

" Seriously, how can you defend X-Factor Dark Phoenix as something that should be left untouched"

Ugh. I really should learn to stop posting in threads about fighting games, since my opinions are apparently the worst thing ever.

I'm all for fighting games to succeed and be great products, but with the way in which game design is moving it is at complete odds with the fighting game. Games are being made in ways for the player to more easily avoid losing, and in fighting games there is always a losing player, because it is a 1 v 1 test of skill. With fighting games becoming relevant again this trend makes its way into fighting games and it has no business being there, at least to me. I hate to reference this game but look at Smash Brothers, that game was only played competitively because there were means to disable these elements. That's what I would like to see with MvC3 and X-Factor.

Hell, I don't even care if everything about playing a fighting games becomes easier. But mechanics like ultras and X-factor work against the very foundations of fighting games.

So if you're trying to understand where I'm coming from, there you have it. Maybe this is my time to quit all fighting games if the majority of players are going to support such ideas.

Ultra's are fine.
 
X-Factor in its current form is not. You can juggle people with X-Dark Phoenix before they even touch the ground. It's not cool, and I use her. I feel dirty when I win this way
 
Also, yes Sentinel's hitbox explained his high health. 1.3mil? Eh, bit much. 905k? Lol might as well just removed him.  

Aw man. Now Sentinel isn't broken anymore. Makes playing against my friend locally far less exciting. But yes, as a serious balance change that seems like a perfectly reasonable move.

@TechHits: Saying that I hate new fighting games is seeing things in a very black and white manner. I think MvC3 is a solid game that was one bad decision away from being great. Sure I hate so many things about SF4 but its still an OK game, its just that its success has me worried about the bad elements of that game evolving into worse things (I would argue that X-Factor is horrible evolution of Ultras) in the hands of other developers. 

My favorite fighting games are in fact older, but its not because they are old or because certain things may be really hard to do.

Meh. Think it's shitty. I think the only thing they should remove are glitches, like the Haggar/spencer and Zero ones. I've never seen anyone pull off a successful Akuma loop in a game. Still gonna play Sent. Haters still gonna hate.