"Event Mode" patch released today makes "balance" changes

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#1 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

A patch today meant to prepare MvC3 for an "event mode"  (which goes live this Friday) also featured some (not so) stealthy balance changes

So far its been confirmed that:

  • Sentinel now has 905k health instead of 1.3 million,
  • X-Factor untouched
  • Cap infinite still in
  • Akuma Infinite out
  • Zero glitch still in
  • DHC damage scaling reset glitch still in
  • Haggar/Spencer DHC glitch is out
  • Spencer lost some corner loop combo
  • Ammy's Okami Shuffle does less damage, but damage seems to differ on characters

Since Capcom hasn't released any official patch notes or even said that this patch would change things, there is still a lot to be confirmed.


#2 Posted by Killroycantkill (1383 posts) -

Wait for real? The Sent and X-Factor thing seem fake... Sent at lower health than Dante is pretty hilarious though, it's like he's made out of alluminum foil now.
#3 Posted by Hailinel (23875 posts) -
@Killroycantkill said:
" Wait for real? The Sent and X-Factor thing seem fake... Sent at lower health than Dante is pretty hilarious though, it's like he's made out of alluminum foil now. "
Sentinel is also like a million miles tall and hits like a rocket-propelled truck.
#4 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Just fired up the game, Sent health nerf is real. X-factor seemed the same.

Apparently that silly Haggar/Spencer DHC glitch was removed too.

#5 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -

NEUTRALIZE! 
CARDBOARD FORCE! 
HYPER CARDBOARD FORCE!

#6 Posted by iDarktread (1206 posts) -

When I saw a patch this morning, I smiled, having just purchased the game over the weekend. 
 
I really, really disliked Sentinel.

#7 Edited by VicRattlehead (1398 posts) -

kinda glad this happened...  
doubt it'll stop people picking him though, might have less health but still has huge damage easy to do combos

#8 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -

Really don't understand the hate for Sentinel. I play him cause he's a fun character so less health won't stop me. 

#9 Posted by Pessh (2454 posts) -

Akuma infinite is gone
 
  

#10 Edited by The_Joker (219 posts) -

I'm glad the solution to "fixing" a balance issue is just reducing health.
 
Now Dante and Deadpool can wear Sent like a condom just like everyone else.

#11 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Updated OP to reflect known changes ATM.

Also, Capcom trolling:



For the record I think this was a retarded move by Capcom. Just remove X-Factor. That would actually fix Sentinel and Phoenix.
#12 Edited by StarvingGamer (7993 posts) -

Not sure how I feel about Sent HP nerf and Akuma Tatsu loop removal... other stuff is fine though. 
 
EDIT: And for the record I do not use Akuma and only use Sent in my troll Haggar / Sent / Phoenix team.

#13 Posted by dbz1995 (4790 posts) -
@StarvingGamer said:
" Not sure how I feel about Sent HP nerf and Akuma Tatsu loop removal... other stuff is fine though.
I'm interested-why do you have a problem with the removal of the Tastu loop? I get the Sent HP nerf problem-I don't know how I really feel about that myself.
#14 Posted by Nephrahim (1118 posts) -

They also stopped the way the drones spawn, now if you hit him, your combo won't be interrupted by the drones. 
 
I can't say I hate this patch because I didn't like Sent but I'm not sure it's a great move either.  We'll have to see.

#15 Posted by Hailinel (23875 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
"

Updated OP to reflect known changes ATM.

Also, Capcom trolling:


For the record I think this was a retarded move by Capcom. Just remove X-Factor. That would actually fix Sentinel and Phoenix. "
Right, they're just going to remove a major component of gameplay entirely to fix two characters when it's easier to adjust an individual character's attack strength and health.
#16 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -

Sent lower HP might make me use him now. 
 
Been on the fence because he seemed a bit overkill at times. But man his assist really helps my Tron along with Ammy. 
 
The Morrigan meter thing can only go so far.

#17 Posted by StarvingGamer (7993 posts) -
@dbz1995: Main reason I'm concerned about removing the Akuma loop is because his offensive options are limited, he's not very durable, he has garbage normals and all of his real damaging combos are hard as balls to do. Literally the only thing he has going for himself is how ridiculously good his Tatsu is and the loop only worked on like... 12 characters? I guess it could be abused as a time-sink though since it took FOREVER to kill someone with it. 
 
@SamDrugbringer: Is that different? I was playing this weekend and every time I hit a Sentinel or my Sentinel got hit all the drones would disappear.
#18 Posted by leroyrockwell (49 posts) -

I'm glad Sentinel has been kinda kicked down, but I think it came too late.
 
MMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
 

#19 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@Hailinel: I hate these arguments but whatever here goes nothing.

At a month into the game, Sentinel has a lot going against him before today. He has the largest hitbox in the game, making him extremely susceptible to instant overheads. In most 1v1 matchups he is at a disadvantage. Sure he may have armor on his normals but they are slow and if you can bait them out and get around them then you basically get a free combo. If Sentinel gets a touch then its big damage. But What makes his damage so ridiculous? X-Factor.

With the way meter gain in this game is, Dark Phoenix is really easy to achieve. On paper, she only has 420k health (which is draining without healing field) and doesn't do that much damage. But why is she the most hated character amongst pretty much all top players? X-Factor.

If you showed up to a major tournament and asked every player there playing MvC3 if they would want X-Factor removed, I guarantee you pretty much every person would say yes. Even good, top players are expressing their disagreement on this nerf to Sentinel.

There is only one balance change the game needed at launch: remove X-Factor, or at least give an option to turn it off.

#20 Posted by StarvingGamer (7993 posts) -
@ricetopher: I don't know about removing it, personally I think I'd rather just see the damage boost on X-Factor get toned down to maybe 110/120/130 for characters like Sentinel or something. I like it as a strategic tool because of all its other properties and I'm sure there's a way to keep it in without it becoming a touch-of-death button.
#21 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@StarvingGamer: Fair enough, but I've heard so many differing ideas on how to change X-Factor that it might be better to just make it an on/off option.

Honestly this whole thing makes the SF4 team look like geniuses. At least they waited a fucking year to touch Sagat.

#22 Edited by animateria (3252 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
"

@Hailinel: I hate these arguments but whatever here goes nothing.

At a month into the game, Sentinel has a lot going against him before today. He has the largest hitbox in the game, making him extremely susceptible to instant overheads. In most 1v1 matchups he is at a disadvantage. Sure he may have armor on his normals but they are slow and if you can bait them out and get around them then you basically get a free combo. If Sentinel gets a touch then its big damage. But What makes his damage so ridiculous? X-Factor.

With the way meter gain in this game is, Dark Phoenix is really easy to achieve. On paper, she only has 420k health (which is draining without healing field) and doesn't do that much damage. But why is she the most hated character amongst pretty much all top players? X-Factor.

If you showed up to a major tournament and asked every player there playing MvC3 if they would want X-Factor removed, I guarantee you pretty much every person would say yes. Even good, top players are expressing their disagreement on this nerf to Sentinel.

There is only one balance change the game needed at launch: remove X-Factor, or at least give an option to turn it off.

"
Technically some of the X-factor stuff can be negated if people lower the damage in the options. Less damage means less shenanigans. But I think most high level tourneys don't mess around with the settings and play vanilla for unifications sake. I doubt that the option to turn off X-factor will be used in tourneys either. 
 
I don't think they should remove X-factor since it definitely has it's uses but it definitely needs nerfs to damage increase. I think the no chip, and regen health thing is fine, but certain characters (Spencer, Sentinel, Dark Phoenix, Wesker) etc have 1 hit kill combos when using X-factor mid-combo/combo which is definitely ridiculous. Personally I think they should change it to defense boost or something less offensive, giving losing players a chance but nothing absurd as it is now.
#23 Posted by Solh0und (1756 posts) -

I'm honestly glad that Sentinel got nerfed. Now people will use different characters for a change other than a big robot that has a cheap spamming attack.

#24 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@animateria: I'm pretty sure if the option to turn off X-factor is added than X-factor will not be used in tournament play. In fact I bet most tournament organizers are in the camp of "fuck x-factor" and would turn off X-factor for tournament play.

I don't want to start a huge discussion on it, but my point is that most people agree with and would be fine with getting rid of it all together. When you discuss tweaks is where you still have a ton of disagreement.

#25 Posted by TechHits (1367 posts) -

so when does event mode go live?

#26 Edited by Pessh (2454 posts) -

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the game is broken  
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they're trying to fix the game
 
No satisfying you people
  

 Fucking babies

 

@TechHits: 25th
#27 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@TechHits: March 25th, which is this friday. I'll update the OP to mention that.

Also apparently Ammy's Okami Shuffle now does less damage. In fact its getting different damage numbers on different characters (246K on Viper, 258K on Arthur, 290K on Deadpool).

#28 Edited by Gilsham (293 posts) -

imo xfactor should be changed to have no dmg boost and be able to break combos and snap back the comboer

#29 Posted by Ulong (444 posts) -

All sentinal talk aside. What the heck is "event mode" anyway?

#30 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen.

#31 Posted by Rockdalf (1274 posts) -
@Pessh said:
" Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the game is broken  
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they're trying to fix the game
 
No satisfying you people
  

 Fucking babies

 

@TechHits: 25th "
As much as this seems like a complete asshole way to put it, I've got to agree.  After reading some comments the past month that simply just said, "That's Marvel" I was afraid that Capcom wouldn't even touch this game after launch, besides releasing DLC.  Gladly my fears are at ease, and if they're interested in improving their product they'll continue to listen to feedback and improving the game, regardless if they make a wrong decision here or there.  I'd rather have a constantly evolving game than a stagnant one due for replacement in a few years.
#32 Posted by TechHits (1367 posts) -

 whatever you do you'll never make the internet happy.

#33 Posted by StarvingGamer (7993 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "
Sounds more like a nerfed hitbox.
#34 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -
@StarvingGamer said:

" @ricetopher said:

" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "

Sounds more like a nerfed hitbox. "

Might be part of it, but from what I've read it sounds like no one is getting pre-patch damage out of it anymore. Funny enough, there was a video explaining fullscreen punishes for blocked Okami Shuffle for every character. I almost get the impression that this patch got held up like 3 weeks and couldn't be withdrawn.

How anyone can honestly defend the logic behind this patch is beyond me. Making the wrong nerfs after only one month is not how you balance a game. In fact all the changes I think this game could use (at this point) would invovlve buffs (other than nerfing/removing X-Factor). Just because we can have things changed more easily doesn't mean we should throw the idea of letting a game evolve first out the window.

I mean, imagine if MvC2 got this treatment? The things that were being complained about in the beginning aren't even top tier? If Capcom wants to make meaningful balance changes, they should wait at least a few months, if not longer.

#35 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -
@ricetopher said:

"Just remove X-Factor. That would actually fix Sentinel and Phoenix."

I can't imagine you're being serious, but just in case... 
 
That is so absurd it's unreal. Capcom pander to the market with their 'balancing', but there is no way in hell they'll remove an integral, game-specific mechanic. 
 
'Hey, we developed this feature for the game, and have pushed it for months; now you guys are bitching about it, we're going to change the entire game for you.' 
 
It'd be like taking out the revenge meter from SF4. It would change the game to the point where it couldn't be played the same way. Plus it would mean Capcom accepting that they've built a ridiculous mechanic and throwing away what would amount to man-hours and resources being thrown away.
#36 Posted by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
"

Ammy's Okami Shuffle does less damage, but damage seems to differ on characters



                    

                "


Fuck you Capcom. Fuck you.
#37 Edited by mnzy (2911 posts) -

People saying "oh they only waited a month", I say: they didn't. Checking patches from developers and Microsoft & Sony takes time. This patch is more of a "we wanted to ship it like that" patch, because they must've finished it shortly after the release.
I also think this is why no real glitches are fixed.
 
And removing X-Factor is ridiculous, it's basically the one big new thing they introduced. They wanted the comeback factor and they got it. It's Marvels ultra. But I would agree, that it is crazy-good.

#38 Posted by Rockdalf (1274 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
" @StarvingGamer said:

" @ricetopher said:

" So its pretty much confirmed now that Ammy's Okami shuffle got a damage nerf (also not needed), getting as low as 105k on Thor from full screen. "

Sounds more like a nerfed hitbox. "

Might be part of it, but from what I've read it sounds like no one is getting pre-patch damage out of it anymore. Funny enough, there was a video explaining fullscreen punishes for blocked Okami Shuffle for every character. I almost get the impression that this patch got held up like 3 weeks and couldn't be withdrawn.

How anyone can honestly defend the logic behind this patch is beyond me. Making the wrong nerfs after only one month is not how you balance a game. In fact all the changes I think this game could use (at this point) would invovlve buffs (other than nerfing/removing X-Factor). Just because we can have things changed more easily doesn't mean we should throw the idea of letting a game evolve first out the window.

I mean, imagine if MvC2 got this treatment? The things that were being complained about in the beginning aren't even top tier? If Capcom wants to make meaningful balance changes, they should wait at least a few months, if not longer.

"
You're right, we should just return on copies right now and fire up MvC2.  Besides, you make the assumption that we'll only receive one patch this three months.  Just keep trucking on, and wait this shit out, don't freak out because you and Capcom don't see eye to eye on month 1.  Last time I checked they've been making Video Games for a while now. 
 

 Panties in a Bunch
#39 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@GetEveryone: X-Factor could work but its become so absurd. Removing it is a bit harsh but I think most people would agree with that over some form of changing it. And using Ultras from SF4 as a comparison isn't very smart either, I think most people wouldn't mind if they got removed.

Back to X-Factor, the point is that as it stands now it creates problems where there are none. Sentinel is fine. Phoenix is fine. X-Factor makes them a problem and even has some players calling for a ban on Phoenix.

#40 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@Rockdalf: You realize I'm far from alone on my stance, right? Just because I'm not a game developer means I can't have better ideas than the ones making the call? I'm all for Capcom improving their product, but as it is they are going in the opposite direction.

I swear its illegal to be logical about fighting games on this site

#41 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -
@ricetopher: It isn't a question of smart. It is an integral part of the game. Whether it's 'misused' or can be manipulated (X-factor Dark Pheonix, e.g.), is almost redundant. Talk of removing the revenge metre is fantasy, and totally unnecessary; removing it would render it a different game.  
 
With regard to MVC3, its early, but the change would be just as drastic. There's a good chance they'll change it, though. Either in how much time you get or the damage dealt. I considered the idea of them changing it to a meter-based resource, but that also wouldn't happen. Nor, do I think, should it. 
 
Succinctly, it won't get removed. 
 
Disclaimer: I gave up on the game after two weeks, so take my view with a heaping of salt (the irony of this statement isn't lost on me, either). 
 
Edit: Also, I don't think you're being logical. When it comes to fighting games I've only ever heard you spout contrary and awful viewpoints. I'm a dick.
#42 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -
@GetEveryone said:

 removing it would render it a different game.  
 

And a better game. Seriously, how can you defend X-Factor Dark Phoenix as something that should be left untouched? There's "revenge meter" mechanics and then theres removing skill and turning the game into that of luck. 

X-Factor probably won't get removed but as it stands it creates problems that shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Sometimes I can be illogical, but I feel like this is a scenario where the logical solution to the obvious problem is pretty easy to pinpoint.

#43 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -
@ricetopher said:

" Seriously, how can you defend X-Factor Dark Phoenix as something that should be left untouched"

I didn't. I said they were likely to change it, though I never said I agreed or disagreed with that. X-factor is totally broken, and part of the reason why I decided to drop the game, but it won't get removed; there's no need, it's just another mechanic (that isn't working to the game's benefit as of this moment). If they reach a compromise, it wouldn't necessarily be more effective than a super/DHC (though, to give it an actual point, it should probably cause at least a little fear in the opponent) and definitely not something to be relied upon.
#44 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Ugh. I really should learn to stop posting in threads about fighting games, since my opinions are apparently the worst thing ever.

I'm all for fighting games to succeed and be great products, but with the way in which game design is moving it is at complete odds with the fighting game. Games are being made in ways for the player to more easily avoid losing, and in fighting games there is always a losing player, because it is a 1 v 1 test of skill. With fighting games becoming relevant again this trend makes its way into fighting games and it has no business being there, at least to me. I hate to reference this game but look at Smash Brothers, that game was only played competitively because there were means to disable these elements. That's what I would like to see with MvC3 and X-Factor.

Hell, I don't even care if everything about playing a fighting games becomes easier. But mechanics like ultras and X-factor work against the very foundations of fighting games.

So if you're trying to understand where I'm coming from, there you have it. Maybe this is my time to quit all fighting games if the majority of players are going to support such ideas.

#45 Posted by The_Joker (219 posts) -

Ultra's are fine.
 
X-Factor in its current form is not. You can juggle people with X-Dark Phoenix before they even touch the ground. It's not cool, and I use her. I feel dirty when I win this way
 
Also, yes Sentinel's hitbox explained his high health. 1.3mil? Eh, bit much. 905k? Lol might as well just removed him.  

#46 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11473 posts) -

Aw man. Now Sentinel isn't broken anymore. Makes playing against my friend locally far less exciting. But yes, as a serious balance change that seems like a perfectly reasonable move.

#47 Posted by TechHits (1367 posts) -
@ricetopher:  well it seems like you sure hate new fighting games.
#48 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

@TechHits: Saying that I hate new fighting games is seeing things in a very black and white manner. I think MvC3 is a solid game that was one bad decision away from being great. Sure I hate so many things about SF4 but its still an OK game, its just that its success has me worried about the bad elements of that game evolving into worse things (I would argue that X-Factor is horrible evolution of Ultras) in the hands of other developers. 

My favorite fighting games are in fact older, but its not because they are old or because certain things may be really hard to do.

#49 Posted by GlenTennis (3144 posts) -

Meh. Think it's shitty. I think the only thing they should remove are glitches, like the Haggar/spencer and Zero ones. I've never seen anyone pull off a successful Akuma loop in a game. Still gonna play Sent. Haters still gonna hate.

#50 Posted by TechHits (1367 posts) -
@ricetopher:  so then why do you like older fighting games? 

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