Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Here to Stay?

Posted by BlueBlazer (31 posts) -

 So Marvel vs. Capcom 3 hit store shelves about a month ago. It wowed people with its fantastic visuals and fresh gameplay. But is the game here to stay? At first glance, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is a great fighting game. It has a unique cast, fast-paced, fun gameplay, and great visuals. So it’s perfect for the hardcore community, right? Unfortunately, that isn’t the case. There a few gameplay elements that prevent MvC3 from being a great, competitive fighting game.   
 

Sentinel Marvel 3 Art
The biggest mistake that Capcom could have made was putting X-Factor into MvC3. X-Factor is easily the most broken gameplay element in any fighting game ever created, and Capcom knew this while developing the game. They knew that the MvC community enjoyed the “broken” factor in previous games, so they intentionally put something broken into the game. Now this wouldn’t have been too bad if they knew how to balance X-Factor and make it broken, but broken in a fun way. The way X-Factor is right now is incredibly stupid. Certain characters have clear advantages over others in this department, the most notable being Dark Phoenix and Sentinel. Sentinel gets something like a 220% increase in speed and damage (I don’t know the exact numbers, if you do let me know in the comments!) and Dark Phoenix gets an absurd boost in damage and speed and on top of that, she no longer loses health like she normally would as Dark Phoenix. With these huge boosts, if you get hit once while either of these characters is in level 3 X-Factor you are dead. Dark Phoenix is the worst of them all though. She can throw fireballs, and do ambiguous teleports to cross you up and kill you in one hit. Phoenix can activate X-Factor while becoming Dark Phoenix, thus losing the recovery on the transformation and going straight into a jab infinite that requires no timing whatsoever. This makes the game not fun when you are put into a situation like this. You have no option but to guess every time that Dark Phoenix makes a move, and if you guess wrong then you lose.  

Systems like X-Factor are really stupid in general. It is essentially rewarding you for being a poor player. If you lose two characters in your team, guess what? You get 3x as much time in X-Factor as you normally would and a much bigger damage and speed boost! Now you can finally be like Justin Wong and make that one character comeback! But it’s not rewarding at ALL to make a one character comeback in MvC3. You just land a hit, X-Factor and you’re halfway there already. I’ve X-Factored out of block stun countless times and did Haggar’s level 3 to take out my opponent. Yes, this is their fault for rushing down a Haggar with 3 supers and an X-Factor in stock, but it doesn’t change the fact that rewarding the player for losing is a bad design choice. It is designed so that casual scrubs can still have a chance even when they are terrible players. I really think that if X-Factor was removed that Marvel vs. Capcom 3 would be a fantastic game. But until then, I think I’ll stick to my other fighters.  
 
                                                                                                                                        BUT WAIT!

That’s not all that is wrong with MvC3? What else could there be? Well, today Capcom released a patch that was supposed to just add access to Event Mode. They also took out some glitches and fixed up some stuff about matchmaking that was pretty stupid beforehand, so that’s fine by me. Where they went wrong was trying to add a balance patch to the game. Sentinel, who previously had 1.3 million health got nerfed down to around 900,000 health. They also removed Akuma’s tatsu infinite, which is a nerf that wasn’t needed. They have essentially made Sentinel a useless character outside of his assist. Viewtiful Joe has more health than Sentinel, and Viewtiful Joe has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game. Sentinel has the largest hitbox in the game and is a giant robot, when he is crouching he’s about five times bigger than Viewtiful Joe is when Joe is standing. This basically means that Sentinel can be killed off of an instant overhead. Now, I’m not angry about the health nerf or removing the infinite, I just think it is insanely stupid to patch a game that is as young as MvC3. The game has been out for just over a month and Capcom is trying to make balancing changes? That is NOT something you should be doing with a fighting game that is being played competitively. In my opinion, you need to wait at least a year before doing anything like this. Sentinel lost a 30% of his health after a month of people bitching. Way to go Capcom, keep up the bad work.  
 
  
  
    
With these factors (no pun intended), will MvC3 stay in the competitive fighting game scene or will it die out? Only time will tell I suppose. 

I’m probably going to work on a review this weekend, undecided on what I will review though so I’m going to let you guys pick. 

1) Pokemon White/Black  
2) Castlevania: Dracula X Chronicles   
3) A retro game of your choice 

Anywho, that’s it for now. Thanks for reading, etc. etc.        
#1 Posted by BlueBlazer (31 posts) -

 So Marvel vs. Capcom 3 hit store shelves about a month ago. It wowed people with its fantastic visuals and fresh gameplay. But is the game here to stay? At first glance, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is a great fighting game. It has a unique cast, fast-paced, fun gameplay, and great visuals. So it’s perfect for the hardcore community, right? Unfortunately, that isn’t the case. There a few gameplay elements that prevent MvC3 from being a great, competitive fighting game.   
 

Sentinel Marvel 3 Art
The biggest mistake that Capcom could have made was putting X-Factor into MvC3. X-Factor is easily the most broken gameplay element in any fighting game ever created, and Capcom knew this while developing the game. They knew that the MvC community enjoyed the “broken” factor in previous games, so they intentionally put something broken into the game. Now this wouldn’t have been too bad if they knew how to balance X-Factor and make it broken, but broken in a fun way. The way X-Factor is right now is incredibly stupid. Certain characters have clear advantages over others in this department, the most notable being Dark Phoenix and Sentinel. Sentinel gets something like a 220% increase in speed and damage (I don’t know the exact numbers, if you do let me know in the comments!) and Dark Phoenix gets an absurd boost in damage and speed and on top of that, she no longer loses health like she normally would as Dark Phoenix. With these huge boosts, if you get hit once while either of these characters is in level 3 X-Factor you are dead. Dark Phoenix is the worst of them all though. She can throw fireballs, and do ambiguous teleports to cross you up and kill you in one hit. Phoenix can activate X-Factor while becoming Dark Phoenix, thus losing the recovery on the transformation and going straight into a jab infinite that requires no timing whatsoever. This makes the game not fun when you are put into a situation like this. You have no option but to guess every time that Dark Phoenix makes a move, and if you guess wrong then you lose.  

Systems like X-Factor are really stupid in general. It is essentially rewarding you for being a poor player. If you lose two characters in your team, guess what? You get 3x as much time in X-Factor as you normally would and a much bigger damage and speed boost! Now you can finally be like Justin Wong and make that one character comeback! But it’s not rewarding at ALL to make a one character comeback in MvC3. You just land a hit, X-Factor and you’re halfway there already. I’ve X-Factored out of block stun countless times and did Haggar’s level 3 to take out my opponent. Yes, this is their fault for rushing down a Haggar with 3 supers and an X-Factor in stock, but it doesn’t change the fact that rewarding the player for losing is a bad design choice. It is designed so that casual scrubs can still have a chance even when they are terrible players. I really think that if X-Factor was removed that Marvel vs. Capcom 3 would be a fantastic game. But until then, I think I’ll stick to my other fighters.  
 
                                                                                                                                        BUT WAIT!

That’s not all that is wrong with MvC3? What else could there be? Well, today Capcom released a patch that was supposed to just add access to Event Mode. They also took out some glitches and fixed up some stuff about matchmaking that was pretty stupid beforehand, so that’s fine by me. Where they went wrong was trying to add a balance patch to the game. Sentinel, who previously had 1.3 million health got nerfed down to around 900,000 health. They also removed Akuma’s tatsu infinite, which is a nerf that wasn’t needed. They have essentially made Sentinel a useless character outside of his assist. Viewtiful Joe has more health than Sentinel, and Viewtiful Joe has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game. Sentinel has the largest hitbox in the game and is a giant robot, when he is crouching he’s about five times bigger than Viewtiful Joe is when Joe is standing. This basically means that Sentinel can be killed off of an instant overhead. Now, I’m not angry about the health nerf or removing the infinite, I just think it is insanely stupid to patch a game that is as young as MvC3. The game has been out for just over a month and Capcom is trying to make balancing changes? That is NOT something you should be doing with a fighting game that is being played competitively. In my opinion, you need to wait at least a year before doing anything like this. Sentinel lost a 30% of his health after a month of people bitching. Way to go Capcom, keep up the bad work.  
 
  
  
    
With these factors (no pun intended), will MvC3 stay in the competitive fighting game scene or will it die out? Only time will tell I suppose. 

I’m probably going to work on a review this weekend, undecided on what I will review though so I’m going to let you guys pick. 

1) Pokemon White/Black  
2) Castlevania: Dracula X Chronicles   
3) A retro game of your choice 

Anywho, that’s it for now. Thanks for reading, etc. etc.        
#2 Posted by Bloodgraiv3 (2712 posts) -

Pokemon for sure. 
 
and I'm not too keen on the X factor either I hope they can turn it down, I mean part of the fun is the unbalance but at times its just silly. 
#3 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

I don't think it will necessarily die out as there's no way MvC2 will ever usurp MvC3's importance in the competitive scene now. Perhaps its popularity will rapidly decline, though.

#4 Posted by Rudeboy217 (1769 posts) -

I would like to hear what you think of Pokemon White/Black.

#5 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Oh man, this blog is gonna rack up so many angry comments over your thoughts on X-Factor.

I agree with you though (That being said, all angry commenters please direct your comments to the OP, not me).

#6 Edited by BlueBlazer (31 posts) -
@ricetopher: Haha, I would like to see some other peoples' opinions on it. :p 
 
By the way, are you the ricetopher that goes on option-select's stream chats? I'm  Zfilz on jtv.
#7 Posted by Bloodgraiv3 (2712 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
"I don't think it will necessarily die out as there's no way MvC2 will ever usurp MvC3's importance in the competitive scene now. Perhaps its popularity will rapidly decline, though. "

I don't know, a lot of the super dedicated fans were upset with MvC3, kinda like quake 3 players who refuse to go to quake live. 
#8 Posted by JJOR64 (18996 posts) -

X-Factor is lame.  They should either nerf it or get rid of it all together.
 
Either with it or not, I still think SSFIV is the better game.
 
AE, hurry the fuck up and come to consoles.

#9 Posted by Damodar (1393 posts) -

I agree that it's way too early to be patching something so drastically like that. 
 
Maybe they were thinking more of the casual players getting pissed off at getting frying panned all day with Sentinel more so than people who play competitively :P 
 
It is a little disappointing to see though. Having his health toned down so much is very strange for a character that has hyper armour. I guess he'll be more about zoning now than  cr.B fishing :P But yes, as Desk demonstrated, a character like Viper can Touch of Death Sent with her box loop combos and she has an extremely fast triangle jump overhead off C. 
 
Seems much too early. Maybe they're too eager to try and plant the game and give it some staying power. I think Ono and his team have done the right thing, only patching out glitches, waiting a full year between each big SF4 update.

#10 Posted by Musou (381 posts) -

I like X-Factor because i'm a poor player and I've won a few fights with it \o/
 
But all things considered, I don't really think X-Factor is necessarily a bad thing. When I play against someone that's much better than me X-Factor doesn't really help me win, after all the other player has it too. Anyway I'm not a great MvC 3 player so I guess I can't really say if it's a bad or good thing.

#11 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -
@Bloodgraiv3 said:
" @FluxWaveZ said:
"I don't think it will necessarily die out as there's no way MvC2 will ever usurp MvC3's importance in the competitive scene now. Perhaps its popularity will rapidly decline, though. "
I don't know, a lot of the super dedicated fans were upset with MvC3, kinda like quake 3 players who refuse to go to quake live.  "
I'm not sure about the Quake players, but I'd say it's simply impossible MvC2 will become more popular than MvC3 now, just like most left SF3 when SFIV came out. MvC3, even with the inclusion of X-Factor, is obviously the more balanced game and both are similar enough that it would only really be the most hardcore of MvC2 players that would continue playing it after more than a decade since its release. 
#12 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1766 posts) -

Given the fact that we are going through something of a fighting game revival (there may potentially be another version of SF4 on the way and MK is shaping up to be something worth playing for the first time since MK3), MvC3 will probably fade into the background faster than MvC2, but I highly doubt it will ever become irrelevant. There's simply nothing out there like it, and while there may be more finely tuned fighting games on the market, MvC3 will survive on it's craziness alone.  

#13 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -

Isn't it kind of hypocritical to say that X-factor is bad and it never should have been in the game, and then turn around and say that a one month old game shouldn't be getting balance patches?

#14 Posted by C2C (855 posts) -

Hm, MvC3 is an odd odd case.  On one hand I agree that normally you should wait more to do something as drastic as the senti nerf.  The thing is though, senti kinda destroyed newcomers to the fighting game genre.  A lot of people new to fighting games must have picked up this game not fully prepared to tackle something like Sentinel.  While I don't like the patch, I think that it was kinda necessary for the new guys :/ 
  
I'll disagree with you on X-factor.  While the bonuses may be overpowered with a specific characters, the system itself I think helps level the playing field for the new guys.  Smart play and the use of your own X-factor mitigates some of the problems you presented, but I'll agree the numbers need tweaking on character specific bonuses. 
 
As for MvC 3 staying or fading? It'll definitely stay as it is the new game in one of Capcom's most successful fighting game series.  That and add to the fact that it is still for all intents and purposes a pretty good fighting game.
 
PS: Pokemon B/W gets my vote

#15 Posted by StarvingGamer (8255 posts) -

Your logic is flawed. It would be a reward if the losing player got X-Factor and the winning player didn't. All it does is temporarily shift the momentum in a match but the winning player gets to shift it right back of they want to. I'd be willing to accept a drastic decrease of the damage multiplier to something like 110/120/130 to make it a little harder to accomplish touch-of-death combos but it definitely doesn't make bad players suddenly become good. A bad player with one character and X-Factor is still probably going to lose to a better player with 3 characters and X-Factor. It only becomes a wildcard when players are of a similar skill level and that just makes things HYPE.

#16 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

Seeing if MVC3 will stay as long as MVC2 would is like saying can lightning strike twice? 
 
Objectively speaking, MVC2 had plenty of broken shit, but somehow, it had survived being around for ten years still bringing ultra big money hype matches up til the very last month before MVC3 comes out.  
 
 
MVC3 with X Factor will stick around.  
 
All old school SF players hated the ultra system since it favored noobs making comebacks before, and yet 2-3 years later, the top guys in SSF4 are the same top guys from previous SF games.  
I predict the same thing will happen in MVC3 where the people that are truly good will almost always win. 
 
Although, I gotta say, they nerfed the wrong thing. It should have been a 30% reduction in damage that sent does, not 30% reduction in health.

#17 Posted by Pessh (2459 posts) -

Patching a month after release is wrong but Capcom are the devil for not removing xfactor day one? Both players get xfactor btw.
 
And I don't understand the outrage at Sent health nerf at all, even if you don't agree with the specific changes, it should give you hope that whatever you keep getting your ass beat by will get revised.
 
Good job regurgitating everyone else's opinions though. 

#18 Edited by Shadow (4980 posts) -

The reason MVC2 died out (at least in my mind) is that it was so goddamn unbalanced that it just wasn't fun to play anymore. They're taking steps to fix that with this title and with downloadable characters/costumes/game modes, I think this game will be around and very popular for a long time. The only thing that could threaten it at this point is MK and those two are so different that they don't really threaten each other.
 
The only thing I really want at this point is for something to be done about rage quitters (like with SF and the disconnect percentages)

#19 Posted by BlueBlazer (31 posts) -
@StarvingGamer: That's just it though, it rewards the player who is losing with a stronger X-Factor. Especially if the losing player has Phoenix. Even if the player winning has 3 characters and X-Factor, if the other player has just Phoenix and level 3 X-Factor, he/she is still even or even winning because when Dark Phoenix comes out and activates X-Factor, the player with 3 characters has to make three wrong guesses and they lose.  
 
@Pessh: What if you aren't getting your ass beat by it? Over half of the cast counters Sentinel. Most characters can do whole combos off of instant overheads, it's just that people don't want to learn to fight him, they just cry and ask for him to be nerfed. 
 
@EvilTwin: I didn't say X-Factor should be patched out, I said it shouldn't have been in the game in the first place.
#20 Posted by StarvingGamer (8255 posts) -
@BlueBlazer said:
" @StarvingGamer: That's just it though, it rewards the player who is losing with a stronger X-Factor. Especially if the losing player has Phoenix. Even if the player winning has 3 characters and X-Factor, if the other player has just Phoenix and level 3 X-Factor, he/she is still even or even winning because when Dark Phoenix comes out and activates X-Factor, the player with 3 characters has to make three wrong guesses and they lose. "
Your logic is still flawed. That situation has everything to do with Phoenix and nothing to do with X-Factor. For X-Factor to truly "reward" the losing player then a player with ANY 3 characters and X-Factor would need to be at a disadvantage to another player with ANY one character and X-Factor. Would you make the same argument that a player with only Hsien-Ko and X-Factor is even or winning against another player with any 3 characters and X-Factor?
#21 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -
@BlueBlazer:  It's the same thing.  You're trying to impose balance on a game that's only one month old.  Which you said is folly.
#22 Posted by Halberdierv2 (1869 posts) -

Im not seeing this survive long competitively, but its still crazy fun.

#23 Posted by BlueBlazer (31 posts) -
@EvilTwin: But when EVERYONE in the competitive fighting game scene acknowledges that X-Factor, at least level 3 X-Factor, is incredibly stupid and broken and should have never been in the game in the first place.  Even Sanford, one of the kings of MvC2, thinks it's stupid.  
 
  
  
 
@StarvingGamer: That's how X-Factor is though. I just used the most extreme example. No matter what character has level 3 x-factor, the other player IS at a disadvantage, even with Hsien-Ko being the one with level 3 X-Factor. If she hits a combo and activates level 3 X-Factor to kill one character, she can set up her own unblockable on the character coming in and that character will be dead because of X-Factor.    
#24 Posted by StarvingGamer (8255 posts) -
@BlueBlazer said:
@StarvingGamer: That's how X-Factor is though. I just used the most extreme example. No matter what character has level 3 x-factor, the other player IS at a disadvantage, even with Hsien-Ko being the one with level 3 X-Factor. If she hits a combo and activates level 3 X-Factor to kill one character, she can set up her own unblockable on the character coming in and that character will be dead because of X-Factor. "
I can't even think of a way to respond to a statement like that. Even with level 3 X-Factor ANY character 1vs3 has to guess correctly at least 3 times to win (okay maybe 2 if the other player is being really stupid with assists). The opposing player only has to guess right once and ALSO HAS THE OPTION TO USE LEVEL 3 X-FACTOR. 
 
I give up, obviously I'm beating my head against a brick wall at this point.
#25 Posted by FUN (178 posts) -

I heard that in the console update with AE content for SSF IV that Zangief will be dropped to El Fuerte-like life

#26 Posted by TechHits (1378 posts) -
@FUN said:
" I heard that in the console update with AE content for SSF IV that Zangief will be dropped to El Fuerte-like life "
isn't this thread about mvc3?
#27 Posted by Zaiyan (1 posts) -

Nuke X-Factor

#28 Posted by rbysjti (354 posts) -

I agree. I think it's too early to nerf Sentinel. I also believe that Capcom should have not nerfed Storm and Magneto since they didn't really nerfed down Sentinel.  
 
I could say Capcom' definition of 'balance' is not balance as we know it and as the dictionary defines it.  
 
Giving Sentinel the biggest health and unstoppable hypcombos is already one obvious item that the game wasn't made to be balanced. Another thing is givng Dante more than 40 moves than everybody else, which if you got hit by Dante, that would be like waiting for your character to die because of his long combos.  x-factor Dark Phoenix is really powerful that even if you block her hypercombo, you're just gonna die quickly still. 
 
I believe that what made the game not balanced made the game more interesting. 
 
So please put back at least Storm's fast vertical typhoon. :)

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