Yeah, I've never been a fan of when games measure your morality in points or some shit like that.

What annoys me is that I can't always tell if I've exhausted all conversation options. I would also enjoy more shades of gray!

Whut? You don't like being able to change how the story develops? I don't understand what you are trying to say... You want a game where the story is completely scripted and you change absolutely no aspect of it?

No, I like being able to change how a story develops, but the game doesn't want you to do this.

The game only wants you to either go completely paragon or completely renegade. Think about it, if you chose a balance of renegade and paragon, then the blue and red choices would never appear during dialogue.

Bioware should have made it so that Blue and Red choices are made sparingly.... so that the more you choose the white options, the more "meter" you build and are then able to choose a red/blue option. That way you're able to feel strongly paragon or renegade about a few things, not EVERYTHING.

I understand what you're saying, but I didn't play it that way. I always chose the option that sounded most like what I would've said in that instance, regardless of whether it was a paragon or renegade option. 
 
If somebody did something to make me angry, then I'd probably let them know, but I wasn't a complete jerk all the time. My Shepherd just had a bit of a temper.

I've never encountered this issue. I simply chose what I felt was the right thing to do, whether it was paragon or renegade.  
 
And yes, you actually can have a gray area. Depending on choices you make, both bars get filled up. So it's entirely possible to have half a paragon bar, and half a renegade bar, or anything in between. 

I just wish they wouldn't brightly colour the obvious Paragon/Renegade dialogue options. The other choices are there, but it's tough to have them stand out when you've got the flashing red/blue in your face. 
 
EDIT: God that makes me look I have ADD O.o... what I meant with my post is to not have the ''heroic/Asswipe'' options made so obvious. 

I don't see how you can't choose with the way it is now. If you think a situation deserves more aggressive action, than choose renegade. If you think it requires a gentler touche, choose paragon. They are not making you pick a certain option just because they colour it.

Its a bit narrow at times yeah, we need more middle ground or likewise stuff.

I think they should take the colors out, make the wheel place choices randomly, and remove the bars from the squad screen.  Choosing to undertake a Paragon or Renegade action should make you consider whether you're strong enough in your position to do so.  Right now, it tells you that you aren't before you even select it.
 
 
At the same time, I already choose my decisions based on what I think Shepard would do, not based on trying to min-max my stats.  Shepard is caring for those who require a soft touch, and hard-as-fucking-nails to criminals, mercenaries and anyone else who wants to be confrontational.  Shepard can give Tali a hug and be emotionally available with Liara, but then talk the most incredible trash on the Krogan homeworld and kneecap hostages if necessary.

You don't have to go completely paragon or renegade. The bars are separate, not a single spectrum. So you have have a high paragon and renegade score. I call it paragade, and that is how I play the game. You  might argue that I wouldn't be able to max out either, but what does maxing it out accomplish? I get both high enough that I can choose any paragon/renegade dialogue options I want.

" Whut? You don't like being able to change how the story develops? I don't understand what you are trying to say... You want a game where the story is completely scripted and you change absolutely no aspect of it? "

Yeah, I've never really liked it. It was worse in the first game, where the actual dialogue never really matched up with the choices you made.

You don't have to choose Renegade/Paragon all the way, and I applaud those who managed to play without doing so, BUT the game simply should not even have a paragon/renegade bar in the first place. It pushes people to become a character they're not.

If you want the paragon/renegade bar, then at least make it so that the player isn't pushed towards one or the other. I'm sure there's many red/blue options that let you fly past a problem or reward you extra for simply always choosing the same red/blue option the whole game.

If you played "you", great, but this thread's is questioning Mass Effect's design choices.

Never thought about it this way, but you are totally right. On my paragon character I always chose the blue option, on my renegade I always chose the red option... 
/sheep

" Whut? You don't like being able to change how the story develops? I don't understand what you are trying to say... You want a game where the story is completely scripted and you change absolutely no aspect of it? "

Yeah, I hate the way ME2's dialogue system was designed in a way that if you didn't choose enough paragon/renegade options, you eventually couldn't choose them at all. 
 
I'd advocate a return to leveling them up as a skill, like in ME1.

OK, sure, it isn't perfect, but, I'd say it's the best way choice in dialogue has been rendered in game (Heavy Rain comes close). 
 
Also, maybe it's just because I super immerse myself in ME games but I have a "paragon" and a "renegade" Shep and with each I made a couple dozen or so choices (sometimes really big ones) that go against their "alignment". 

I don't like it because it just tends to lead in one direction. Renegade Shepard still wants to save the world just as much as Paragon Shepard. They just have different ways of getting to the same ending. I want one ending to be helping the bad guys and the other ending to be stopping the bad guys. Thats the best game for me.

I wouldn't say hate. Though I do get a chuckle out of people who think putting optional exposition on one side and color coded choices on the other is omg revolutionary. It was functional I guess. Just seemed really binary to me.

" OK, sure, it isn't perfect, but, I'd say it's the best way choice in dialogue has been rendered in game (Heavy Rain comes close).  Also, maybe it's just because I super immerse myself in ME games but I have a "paragon" and a "renegade" Shep and with each I made a couple dozen or so choices (sometimes really big ones) that go against their "alignment".  "

I'd hardly say it's something I hate, but I do think Bioware ought to move away from binary morality systems in the future. I'd be very disappointed if, after the ME trilogy's over, I ever run into text that is blue or red.
 
However. This is a totally different aspect, I know, but the best part of ME dialogue is that they make most expository dialogue optional. If I'm on my 2nd playthrough, or if I just don't need something explained, then I just don't choose the "investigate" option . It makes games without dialogue options feel unbearable at times.

" I don't like it because it just tends to lead in one direction. Renegade Shepard still wants to save the world just as much as Paragon Shepard. They just have different ways of getting to the same ending. I want one ending to be helping the bad guys and the other ending to be stopping the bad guys. Thats the best game for me. "

I haven't played AP so I can't argue with that.

" @ryanwho:  I always saw the bottlenecking as a practical concession, but since there is no "next game" after ME3, Bioware can develop multiple threads without feeling compelled to tie them back together. Or so I assume. "

" @valrog: Dragon Age is?! That vagueness was one of my favorite things about Dragon Age... and why I replay it many more times than Mass Effect 2. "

" @Eristocrat said:

" OK, sure, it isn't perfect, but, I'd say it's the best way choice in dialogue has been rendered in game (Heavy Rain comes close).  Also, maybe it's just because I super immerse myself in ME games but I have a "paragon" and a "renegade" Shep and with each I made a couple dozen or so choices (sometimes really big ones) that go against their "alignment".  "

best way? no way, alpha protocol is the best way. the game part wasn't very good, but the dialogue system is the best I've seen in a video game yet. "

It doesn't give you enough freedom to roleplay your Shepard how you want to play him/her, because you feel obliged to go straight Paragon or straight Renegade.
 
I don't like putting a strict timer on choices like AP does either.  I like it in theory and it did work well most of the time, but the times when it didn't work were just annoying and destroyed any feeling of agency.  Sometimes you were presented with a handful of vague one word options and were expected to choose one before the NPC finished talking (to keep the conversation flowing naturally), except it was often impossible to decipher what the options even meant until the NPC got right to the end of their speech, so you were effectively just picking a response at random.  Having to watch while your character responds in a totally unintended way is far more jarring than just having the occasional pause in conversation, imo.  It's cool that they want to make it play out more like a real conversation, but IRL you don't have to process a UI before responding how you want to respond - they need to allow for that.

There is no shade of gray.

Well, you can play the game balanced between paragon or renegade, but the game punishes you for doing this later in the game when you start losing crew members because you don't have a high enough score either way. And there's no true benefit to playing as a neutral character. So yeah, generally it's best within the game as a system to play one way or the other. I think it's a legitimate complaint, though I understand why Bioware went in that direction. 
 
I would much rather have a more complicated system with a wider variety of responses, but the number of outcomes this would generate is so crazy that it would lead to the Fallout 3 problem, where the ending is not really coherent, just a rehashing of individual decisions you made that didn't actually change the ending all that much one way or the other. I'd be very happy with the lawful/neutral/chaotic and good/neutral/evil combinations, but that doesn't make coming up with a coherent ending much easier.
 
I think in an open-ended, non-narrative focused game, more options would be better. But Mass Effect is heavily scripted, and so the limited choices don't bother me so much. It's not our story, but Shepard's, and so our options are, sadly, more limited.

I think you just have to take Dragon Age's alignment system remove the ability to game it so much and have no Paragon vs Renegade meters. 
But other than one renegade run for ME1 I've never played any games with moral choices without doing what I want not what would be good or evil in for good or evil's sake. When you really think about it this is Shepard's story not Damswedon the murderous prick's. Shepard has a job to do, stop the Reapers for the sake of the continuation of the galaxy. At most she will be an asshole to others but she is going to stop the Reapers. She isn't going to decide one day that  her goal in the Capital wastelands is to kill everyone and move their stuff to her house in Megaton.

" @Eristocrat said:

" OK, sure, it isn't perfect, but, I'd say it's the best way choice in dialogue has been rendered in game (Heavy Rain comes close).  Also, maybe it's just because I super immerse myself in ME games but I have a "paragon" and a "renegade" Shep and with each I made a couple dozen or so choices (sometimes really big ones) that go against their "alignment".  "

best way? no way, alpha protocol is the best way. the game part wasn't very good, but the dialogue system is the best I've seen in a video game yet. "

i don't like the paragon/neutral/renegade arrangement, but i guess it is up to the individual to put alignment out of their mind and role-play their character. however, that is made significantly easier and more natural when the dialog options are arranged randomly and with more vagueness, like in dragon age.

The only thing I would point out is that it isn't very hard to fill either the paragon or renegade meter while making a good 1/3 of your choices the exact opposite way.  Especially in ME2 there are SO many paragon and renegade points that with my renegade I almost maxed out both meters (and yes, I'm aware I'm a space boy scout).

No it's the best conversation system in the history of games, so I pretty much adore it

If the options weren't colored and you weren't hinted at what is a good/bad option it would make the game much more compelling.

" If the options weren't colored and you weren't hinted at what is a good/bad option it would make the game much more compelling. "