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    Mass Effect 2

    Game » consists of 21 releases. Released Jan 26, 2010

    After a violent death by an unknown force and a timely reanimation by the human supremacist organization Cerberus, Commander Shepard must assemble a new squad in the seedier side of the galaxy for a suicide mission in the second installment of the "Mass Effect" trilogy.

    By playing ME1 and 2, ME3 should let you...(spoilers)

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    So I was thinking that I've done a few additional play-throughs of ME2 above the 2 characters imported from ME1 and one of the things that irked me was that the last two played out similarly in sections because of the default choices given to you. 
     
    I'd quite like if it in ME3 you were given the option to pick some of the 'choices' 'your' character made if you started a character fresh in ME3, based on what your longest running character has done. For example: 
     
    John Shepard has played ME1. He was imported to ME2, survived, then was imported to ME3 to finish of his fate and completed his trilogy.  
    -A player who has done this, if they say wanted to create a new character fresh in ME3, they would be able to choose some of the major choices from ME1 and 2 that their brand new ME3 character starts off with. 
     
    Ellen Shepard has played ME2. She survived and was imported to ME3 and completed the two games. 
    -A player in this set-up who then created a fresh character for ME3 would be able to choose major choices from ME2 only based on their 2-game character. 
     
    Why do this then? You could argue that I should bite the bullet and play through all the games again and there is certainly a good argument for that, not to mention plenty of time for fun...but there are other considerations. The changing of game-play is quite fundamental, so even if you don't like all of the changes between ME1 and 2 (and then whatever is in store for us) I think you'd be hard pressed to say that on the whole, ME1 plays better than 2. There is also the time consideration, that I don't necessarily want to play through say, 50 hours of game play just to have one set-up before I start on the game I want to play. 
     
    Why let people who play ME3 only not have this option? Think of it as an award for playing through the previous games. I just want to experience a different reaction to something I didn't take previously, but I know exactly what would happen because I've played the game and know what would happen in that specific game.  Someone who only plays ME3 will probably know about the Citadel Council survival (or not) and the Collector Base's condition, but they will likely care less about, say, the Rachni Queen or how many of your enemies you wish to push out windows etc. 
     
    So the exact way I propose this would be done is that major decisions, usually the ones at the end of missions including the two big end-game ones be selectable as to what happens and then for other minor decisions to either be defaulted to off or on or whatever, or all be placed on some sort of randomly placed switch so that out of say these 150 random decisions you could've made, 75 will randomly be 'positive' and 75 'negative' or whatever.  
     
    Okay, feel free to rip this to shreds.

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    DrPockets000

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    #2  Edited By DrPockets000

    I'm pretty sure you can  make some of the big decisions like that when you start a game.

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    Jeust

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    #3  Edited By Jeust

    I agree, and i'm sure they are going to do it in the ME2 for the PS3.  
     
    But will that transpire to ME3? It's anyone's guess.

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    Tomkang

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    #4  Edited By Tomkang

    I agree, I was gutted when I lost my saves for ME1 and started ME2 only to have Wrex dead and the Council :(. I really didn't want to go through ME1 again as I have too many games to go through as it is. It wil suck hard if you can't pick some decisions in ME1 and 2 if you start a new game in ME3, since there are way too many different paths you can take in the 2 previous games. I swear you would have to have like 4 characters min to see the effect of most decisions. (Council redemption, Rachni, Wrex ashely or Kaiden etc.)

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    fernog

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    #5  Edited By fernog

    Hopefully something like this is incorporated in the ps3 version.

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    @DrPockets000 said:
    " I'm pretty sure you can  make some of the big decisions like that when you start a game. "
    From what I recall, the only decision you could influence at the start of ME2 on a new game was who the Earth ambassador was. 
     
    @fernog said:
    " Hopefully something like this is incorporated in the ps3 version. "
    I hope they do get something, because it'd suck for them to be stuck with a certain story.
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    phantomzxro

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    #7  Edited By phantomzxro

    I agree that some choices should be able to change if you start fresh but i still think it is great to in rich the people who went and played every mass effect game.

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    Pezen

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    #8  Edited By Pezen

    Honestly, I would hate that. The whole notion of carrying a save forward is the fact that what's done is done and thus this is my Shepard and his story. If they opted to give me the freedom to alter the past, it would kill some of that even if I don't use it. Perhaps if it's opened up as a feature after a playthrough, ok, that I can live with.

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    xyzygy

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    #9  Edited By xyzygy

    Sure, they can do that, but it really takes away from the experience that the Mass Effect trilogy is trying to convey. The games are meant to be played as a saga and with the same characters that you had in ME1 and 2. I mean sure you can still play it starting out at ME3 or ME2, but you're not getting the full experience and it negates the whole point of the cross game character development feature.

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    ReyGitano

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    #10  Edited By ReyGitano
    @Pezen said:
    " Honestly, I would hate that. The whole notion of carrying a save forward is the fact that what's done is done and thus this is my Shepard and his story. If they opted to give me the freedom to alter the past, it would kill some of that even if I don't use it. Perhaps if it's opened up as a feature after a playthrough, ok, that I can live with. "
    Having that as an extra feature once you beat the game sounds reasonable, but I agree that just having that as a flat out option seems to go against the spirit of the game.
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    @SlashseveN303 said:
    " @Pezen said:
    " Honestly, I would hate that. The whole notion of carrying a save forward is the fact that what's done is done and thus this is my Shepard and his story. If they opted to give me the freedom to alter the past, it would kill some of that even if I don't use it. Perhaps if it's opened up as a feature after a playthrough, ok, that I can live with. "
    Having that as an extra feature once you beat the game sounds reasonable, but I agree that just having that as a flat out option seems to go against the spirit of the game. "

    Indeed. As I hopefully made apparent in my OP (if not, apologies!) you'd only get this when starting a brand new character based on the performance of your longest running character. You couldn't, therefore, just load up ME3 and go "Hmmm, well, I'll have that, that, this and that" and then get under-way. The exception I would have for this would be for PS3 players getting ME2, because I think it's only fair that they do get to choose the major decisions considering they literally cannot play it through themselves. 
     
    @xyzygy said:
    " Sure, they can do that, but it really takes away from the experience that the Mass Effect trilogy is trying to convey. The games are meant to be played as a saga and with the same characters that you had in ME1 and 2. I mean sure you can still play it starting out at ME3 or ME2, but you're not getting the full experience and it negates the whole point of the cross game character development feature. "
    Again, hopefully I anticipated this. I fully acknowledge(d) that Mass Effect is designed as a trilogy, but in actual game-play, that doesn't quite work out as consistent as say a trilogy of films. Now, I can't see game-play changing radically between ME2 and 3, but it is possible. I'm saying that for people, like my self, who have carried through at least one character (I've carried through 2 from ME1 to ME2, ready to go for ME3 and I'm sure there are people with more) it'd be nice if they had the opportunity to play through the entirety of the conclusion without the preceding 50-70ish hours for ME1/2 which (might) play differently anyhow. These aren't people who are brand new to the ME experience, these are people who have already put in a lot of time with however many characters they have and are loyal to the franchise and probably read around the game to find out more details anyhow. They know what the choices are, in that one is bad/less good/good etc., but it's totally different to experiencing it.  
     
    I don't think it does take away from the experience if you've already run through the trilogy at least once, in my case it'll be twice and for others, more.
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    xyzygy

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    #12  Edited By xyzygy
    @Joelteon7: If you've already played the games I guess it won't take away from the experience, but playing with the same character through all three games will definitely add to it.
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    #13  Edited By alcamin

    It seems like a reasonable idea. There is so much stuff to do in those games, the chances of seeing every outcome is pretty small, unless you play it dozens of times, so having an option to see a wider range of plots would be interesting. Still, I'm not sure Bioware would really bother. I just have images of a large table full of a ridiculous amounts of questions and a "yes/no" box by the side of each one. I suppose you could just whittle it down to the bear essentials; Wrex's fate, did Ashley or Kaidan die, how many of the Normandy II's crew survived etc, but whether Bioware would even do that is debatable. It would be an interesting mod project if nothing else, and one that I would probably try out, but I think it would only really make sense for the PS3 version simply because of there not being any original Mass Effect file. But even then it would probably be easier just to have a set path, such as the default in ME2. The Bioware guys are pretty smart though, so I'm sure they've thought of something.

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    LiquidPrince

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    #14  Edited By LiquidPrince

    To condense what you want: basically you want to be able to have the option to choose what some of the big decisions in past games were.

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    @xyzygy:  I don't doubt that. At all, actually. I just think that the gameplay difference between ME1 and 2 is quite jarring to then go backwards to ME1, to go on to 2 and then proceed onto whatever 3 has in store. Hence why I propose that this only be an option so long as you've completed 3 and given as much background for those games you've consistently completed. 
     
    @Alcamin:  I can imagine it being a very long table, definitely! So, like I said, only really main decisions would be picked, like you said. So, nothing about say, Conrad Verner. At the same time, the kind of people who would want to do 'this' are likely the kind of people who wouldn't mind wanting to fill it out so they could tailor their experience. I think just being stuck with the default is a bit lame if you want to try out a new character for their class dynamics and go through the same story that you might have already done with one of your trilogy characters. I'm sure the story will be good, but there's something to be said for mixing it up a little bit. Hell, even a straight up Paragon/Renegade option would be better (not great, but better). 
     
    @LiquidPrince: Yes, so long as you've got say, at least one character that has played through all the games and completed ME3. (Or just ME2's if you've started then, as per my OP.) I'm not suggesting this should just be handed out to anyone.
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    LiquidPrince

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    #16  Edited By LiquidPrince
    @Joelteon7:  Or it could be handed out to anybody. Who cares? If people haven't played through the first two and just want to make the decisions then they are the ones that are losing out. They aren't getting the intended experience.
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    xyzygy

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    #17  Edited By xyzygy
    @Joelteon7: OHHH I see what you're saying now. If you have at least one save file from ME1 and 2, then when you play 3, only then should you have the option to pick different choices throughout the entire series, instead of having to play hours upon hours of the same games (although they are awesome) over again to find out something different. 
     
    That's actually a really awesome idea and would be very rewarding to those who have played through all the games. Although it would only be available for 360/PC owners.
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    @LiquidPrince: Perhaps, but if they're brand new to the universe, telling them "Well, here's a load of things you don't know about that you need to pick" might be a little bit daunting. If this is the same type of people who pick Soldier (more than all other classes combined) I could imagine that being a genuine concern for Bioware. Perhaps as a New Game + thing? Sure, throw it in, I'm just trying to think from a stand point of what people would and wouldn't know about. I know that at the end of ME1, I have to pick if the Council lives or dies. For all people know if they've jumped in at 2 (or 3) and Shepard talks about "I let the Council die" the new player might think "Oh, s/he did?" as opposed to a seasoned player going "Yup. Totally let those bastards die for jerking me around."  
     
    @xyzygy:  Exactly! You need to complete the trilogy before you could potentially have any say on how a new character was built. Until then, they are 'default'. Like I've said, I'd have the same option available for people who joined in at ME2 and completed ME3 with the same character, but they would only be able to change things about ME2 and not further back. Or who knows? LiquidPrince does raise a good idea in that there's nothing really stopping anyone from being able to use it. I'd say that PS3 users should be able to choose stuff for ME1 though regardless, considering they literally cannot play the game to make their own decisions.
     
    At any rate, I'd see the idea implemented similarly to how you pick your facial features. You'd have sliders for all the choices split up into ME1 and then 2.  
     
    I want to point out I don't believe for a second this idea is full proof and Bioware's best and legitimately water-tight argument is "You should have a character experience everything, not just be able to change everything on a whim". Regardless, I still think this a good and fun idea.
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    LiquidPrince

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    #19  Edited By LiquidPrince
    @Joelteon7: The impact is going to be neutered even if it is a new game plus feature, so they should just give it to the players from the beginning. That would be better then the game just choosing for you.
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    @LiquidPrince: Definitely, but by revealing the options to people once they've completed the game, hopefully they'll get this idea of a sprawling universe filled with repercussions and consequences to actions. At that point, they discover that they can play the game and have a totally different experience rather than unloading it on them from the start. I think that people might be scared by it being labelled as an RPG (even if it's not 'old skool') and then to have two games full of choices might be a bit much and push people away.  Makes me glad I'm not a game dev. Don't have to think about these things too hard!
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    sarahsdad

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    #21  Edited By sarahsdad

    I'm remembering it 2nd or 3rd hand, but one of the things that was tested for ME:2 was similar to what you're describing. They had some option for new characters where you could choose "default" or "custom" for the story, similar to the face reconstruction thing; choosing custom gave a list of all the things in ME:2 that could be effected by ME:1 choices.

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    alcamin

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    #22  Edited By alcamin
    @Joelteon7: True. As long as they stuck with the events of the main storyline then it could work. Any deviation into the vast majority of the side-quests would be a total waste of time, as most of them that carry over to Mass Effect 2 are just nods and winks to the older players. For example, the fact that you can find Fist in Afterlife would be meaningless if you didn't know who Fist was or why he was there, so an opinion for that would be pointless. I do agree that the people that there would be interested in this feature probably wouldn't mind going through it (like I said, as a fan of the series I would like to explore some options that I haven't seen before), but I wonder how many people would actually care? I suppose the main reason that I feel it's unlikely to happen is that it's just one of those feature that so few people would actually use that Bioware probably wouldn't feel it was in their best interests to implement it. After all, unless you know something about the storyline then even the important events of the previous games may not seem particularly relevant. After all, if Mass Effect 3 is the first one you had played then does it really matter to you if the council lives or dies in the first game? Probably not. 
     
    The one way that I suppose a feature like this could work is if it was unlockable after completing your first run through, At least then any new players would have a better idea of the story and be able to make a more informed judgement about the elements that they wish to change, while the the veteran players, who carried their Shepard all the way from ME1, can do some "what if" scenarios after seeing the final outcome. It's a complicated topic, but in a way I think it's a testament to how great Mass Effect is that we are talking about it at all. :) There's certainly a lot of possibilities.
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    @sarahsdad: I'd be interested in knowing why that was dropped... 
     
    @Alcamin: ...because I imagine it fits into what you said, namely that Bioware might not think it's worth it. And yeah, like I've said, major choices only. I've played both games thoroughly and to be honest, Conrad Verner didn't do much for me, so I can hardly see a newbie to the series caring that much. Granted, I'm not everyone though! 
     
    So, off the top of my head, things would be: 
     ME1: Rachni Queen, Feros survivors (any?), Wrex, Kaiden/Ashley, Council, Human Ambassador
    ME2: Collector's Base, who survived (so a choice for everyone with crew as a general tab), loyalty out-comes (eg, Garrus being more paragon or renegade, Samara/Morinth, Legion's virus etc.). I know ME1 looks like having more, but there's a good few groupings for ME2. 
    Misc: How many times you punched the news reporter...okay, this one's just a joke.
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    sarahsdad

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    #24  Edited By sarahsdad
    @Joelteon7: I'd be interested as well :) 
    It was over the course of two or three posts on Penny Arcade. Tycho/Jerry posted that he, for whatever reason, didn't have his ME1 save, and was wondering how he'd be able to get the choices he had made count in ME2. He related that he'd talked to someone who had played/tested what they thought was a final or close to final build of the game, where that feature was available. Fast forward to the game being out, and of course there was no such feature. Jerry made a specific point in a post after the game came out that he was so certain his friend was right, that he at first assumed he had missed a setting somewhere. I don't recall that there was a reason found or given; his friend wasn't high enough up the food chain to know exactly why. 
     
    It may seem obvious, but I think that Bioware didn't or couldn't find a way that they were happy with to implement more than a few choices. Or, it could be that they narrowed down what they thought were the most important changes that would carry over into ME3. I really hope it's the former, not the latter, since I'd like to see something come of letting the Rachni queen and Wrex both live in the first game.
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    PhatSeeJay

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    #25  Edited By PhatSeeJay

    Personally I've invested too much time on my saves to be comfortable having them on the HDD only. Makes me care more about how I've played the game knowing that if I lose it, my chances of affecting the next game is gone.
     
    I guess a feature spoken of would be appreciated to the ones that had their save lost, but it also takes away a bit of the feeling that if I screw up, I'll have to restart because it will eff up things in the sequel.
     
    Also, having to get to choose who survived the Collector base is just wrong because that took a lot of work. Taking the edge of it by being able to say "well I screwed up royally in the finish of the game but meh I'll just start a new Shepard in ME3 so I can choose who survived." The stakes of what to expect in terms of carrying over to the next game has been set and I can really only see this thing being very much viable between ME1 and ME2 (more from the fact as to how polished and smoother ME2 is compared to ME1). Getting to choose whether you purged or blew up the station perhaps but not who survived and did not, if you're that invested in the characters then you would play ME2 to get to that.

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    @PhatSeeJay:  This isn't for people who screw up. I 'screwed up' my Paragon run because at the end of ME1 I let the Council get killed, but you know what? I've run with it. I'm accepting my consequences. This is for people who want to see an alternative. If you import a character, it has all of their decisions anyhow, so that's moot. You can always re-import and change what you do in ME3, which is where things get really complicated, but for those who've already played through the trilogy getting the chance to experience brand new class mechanics they may not have tried before with a brand new set of actions that might require 50+ hours of play-time first (with differing game play in between) would be a fun opportunity. And that's the point - a game should be fun and this would be a fun option. 
     
    Besides, if you do have the inclination to restart because you screwed something up, then I'd say you're missing the point of the game. If you have choices, you're supposed to accept the results for whatever you choose. I do acknowledge though that for people whose saves went kablooey, this would be a good edition, but like I said this further re-affirms my idea that it should perhaps only be available post game completion so that you see one experience first (either your own imported or the default).
     
    The who survives was just a random idea to the kind of depth we could go to. Major decisions, like the Collector's Base would be a shoe-in. Who survives, well perhaps Bioware would come up with their own idea, or maybe 'survival of the fittest'? I would however say that deciding how much of your crew survives is a pretty major decision as you are, quite literally, dealing out life or death, as opposed to my go-to example of Conrad Verner where he's just a bit la-la in the head.

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