How do you feel about the Krogran Genophage? (Mass Effect 2 Poll)

  • 89 results
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#1 Posted by DriveupLife (896 posts) -
#2 Posted by A_Cute_Squirtle (662 posts) -

Damn. It speaks a lot about this game that this is actually a difficult decision for me to make. I can't say for certain how I'd react to this one way or the other. I need to play another round of Mass Effect 2. 

#3 Posted by Soapy86 (2597 posts) -

Definitely pro genophage.  
 
I feel like Mordin made the case that it was unquestionably the right thing to do. 

#4 Posted by SoylentGreen (254 posts) -

Hitler, the Holocaust, and the Nazis.
 
There; now that Godwin's Law has been invoked, this discussion can continue unabated.
 
I voted C. The genophage was genocide, no matter which way you put it. I realize that it may have been the only option at the time, but there's no way I could ever support anything like it.

#5 Posted by SSully (4060 posts) -

I feel like the Salarians fucked up by giving the Krogans tech they were not mature enough to handle, which led to the Krogans getting out of line both population wise, and violence wise, so they cleaned up their mistake in a horrible way. But it really had to be done, if they didnt do it the Krogans would have overrun the galaxy. 

#6 Posted by Soapy86 (2597 posts) -
@SoylentGreen said:

" Hitler, the Holocaust, and the Nazis.  There; now that Godwin's Law has been invoked, this discussion can continue unabated.  I voted C. The genophage was genocide, no matter which way you put it. I realize that it may have been the only option at the time, but there's no way I could ever support anything like it. "

gen·o·cide

–noun
the  deliberate  and  systematic  extermination  of  a  national,  racial, political,  or  cultural  group.
    
The Salarians didn't kill or exterminate shit. They adjusted the rate of  viable embryos. The Krogan's high birth rate was a problem to begin with, the Salarians merely fixed it. 
#7 Posted by fearthephins (148 posts) -

I've been asked this question multiple times and I am still not quite sure how to answer it. It has it's pros and cons on both sides but down the line it was wrong and probably should never have happened. However, if you would look at it from the other point of view you would see how the Krogan most probably would have taken over and the world would become a horrible and very violent place. They just wanted to reduce their numbers so that they wouldn't be such a threat anymore. Unfortunately they took a severe path and it became quite harmful for the whole race. I'm not a fan of the genophage and I would never have considered it as one of my own motives but I can understand why the people/beings of the "Mass Effect world" did it.

#8 Posted by Brendan (7520 posts) -

It's really difficult for me to judge, due to the desperate times and all that jazz.  The act itself is unspeakable, but in the circumstances I'm not so sure.  Maybe this is when a better person than me steps in and says no, "no matter what".

#9 Posted by Meteora (5787 posts) -

I am against the genophage, but understandably it was the only hard quick fix solution to the problem, since they were spreading out like wildfire.

#10 Edited by bybeach (4607 posts) -

It was not genocide. It was to force the Krogan people to not use genocide coupled with over breeding to overrun and subjugate or worse all other forms of life,simply because that had been the solution for their own genocidal behavior. How many times had they tried to take the other side of themselves out by nuclear war, pestilence and starvation. What the galaxy was confronted with(I guess I got to be serious in this little rant) was a reptilian brained negative to all life other than their own fucking brood- clan existing. They would overrun everything like pestilent rats, and have no heart for any others, or proven by their hstory, even for themselves.  Furthermore, the idea I thought was to keep their population down, not eliminate them totally.
 
I did not like them. there were others who were just as much brave warriors, but could extend themselves to another life form surviving even if they couldn't.. But all those reptile assholes cared about was the tradition of waging war, and using biology as their only means to deal with their impulses.  
 
I had no use for them, and was sorry I lost Thane instead. 
 
Mordin rocked, as long as he wasn't proud of what he did. And as long as it was a limiting tool, not an elimination one. I think the problem was the line was very close.
 
#11 Posted by Apathylad (3065 posts) -

Which answer will give me maximum Paragon points?

#12 Posted by SBYM (1219 posts) -

Considering the countless fake computer people that players have done awful things to in games, I have no problem with fake computer people doing awful things to one another en masse.

#13 Edited by Soapy86 (2597 posts) -

The bottom line is this: When looking at the genophage in a vacuum... yeah, it's a shitty thing to do. But extraordinary events call for extraordinary actions, and Mordin and his crew stepped up to the plate and probably came up with a better solution than anyone else could have.  
 
I mean, what are the other options? Option A: Do nothing and let them overtake the entire galaxy only for them to turn on and destroy each other once they conquered everyone else? Or Option B: Destroy them completely and commit actual genocide. 
 
All of the options are ugly, but Mordin and the others made the best choice from limited options. 

#14 Posted by Rawrnosaurous (768 posts) -

It says something about the game in which this is a difficult decision for me to ultimately make. I agree with mordin that the genophage was needed as they breed way to fast off their home planet, however i'm not sure that making them have so many still born's was the best route. Maybe that was they only way for them to actually limit their numbers but it really put their culture into a downward spiral. 

#15 Posted by Delta_Ass (3230 posts) -

It had to be done. There's a huge difference between Jews and Krogans.

#16 Posted by Soapy86 (2597 posts) -

That's the biggest downside that I can see, the effect on the Krogan's morale and society. However, in my game at least, Wrex seems like a great leader and if he has his way the Krogans are going rebuild a better society and in the long run they might be better off for having gone through all of this. 

#17 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

It's a no win situation, on one hand the genophage reduces the amount of krogans which is morally wrong. Yet if krogans overun the galaxy, they can really affect other species negatively because they are warlike creatures. I vote to keep the genophage, yet try to modify it so it will let them reproduce more than before.

#18 Posted by Undeadpool (4868 posts) -

It WASN'T Nazism! It was damn close, but it wasn't the same. The Krogan nuked themselves the first chance they got, they reduced their home planet to smoldering rubble and then they wanted to expand to the rest of the galaxy? Fuck. NO! The Salarians had a horrible, horrible choice to make, but in the end there was no other choice TO make. It was either the genophage or let the Krogan literally overrun the galaxy and trigger another war with horrific losses on all sides. If the Salarians and Turians hadn't acted, we'd be seeing Shepard trying to find a way to stop the Krogan, rather than the Geth/Reapers from overwhelming the galaxy. Introducing them to nuclear tech and FTL travel was a mistake to be sure, but they rectified that mistake with MINIMAL loss of life and Mordin's horror at his partner's experimentation on living, sentient beings already sets him apart from real monsters like Mengele and his fucking twisted ilk. 
This argument is one of the things that makes Mass Effect great.

#19 Posted by SoylentGreen (254 posts) -
@Soapy86: Unfortunately, the Salarians altered the birthrate to the point where something like only 1 in 100 or 1000 (can't remember which) krogan children are alive and well after birth. The krogan race is dying, very much due to what Mordin and his team did. I would call that an extermination, because they're on a path to extinction.
 
You can't justify it by saying that they'd do it themselves; you can't predict the future. Maybe someone like Wrex would've stepped up and led them to a safer political climate, who knows? Yes, they were going to forcefully conquer inhabitable worlds for their own use, and were in the process of doing so, but you can't use that to advocate an atrocity.
 
/paragon
#20 Posted by Jamer91 (132 posts) -

I am pro genophage. It really had to be done to prevent the galaxy from becoming a chaotic war zone overun with Krogan.

#21 Posted by Capum15 (4573 posts) -

B, because I told Mordin to keep the cure information just in case.

#22 Posted by Rawrnosaurous (768 posts) -
@Undeadpool: The thing with the krogans is that they had already nuked their civilization before the salarians uplifted them. They were already war like far before they were raised to beat back the rachni, they just didn't have the chance to grow culturally out of that. 
 
@SoylentGreen: The Krogan race isn't dying however the fact that Mordin had to alter the genophage because they were evolving around it was proof that they weren't dying out they just weren't thriving. They aren't on a path to extinction at all they just aren't increasing their numbers as fast as they would without it. They weren't just going to conquer inhabitable worlds, they were conquering worlds and civilizations because they were breeding too quickly for the worlds they were conquering to sustain them. They were conquering them because they were wearing the worlds out that they had, they were using up all the resources quickly because of their high birth rate. Had they continued not only would they have conquered the galaxy but they would have strip mined a vast majority of the galaxy's planets just to sustain themselves.
#23 Posted by Enigma777 (6047 posts) -

None of those options cover my viewpoint.
 
It sucks, but I understand why they did it and why it's necessary. I wouldn't go out of my way to cure it, but if I stumbled on a cure, I'd probably use it, but not because I need their help with the reapers.

#24 Edited by sixghost (1679 posts) -
@Soapy86 said:

" @SoylentGreen said:

" Hitler, the Holocaust, and the Nazis.  There; now that Godwin's Law has been invoked, this discussion can continue unabated.  I voted C. The genophage was genocide, no matter which way you put it. I realize that it may have been the only option at the time, but there's no way I could ever support anything like it. "

gen·o·cide

–noun
the  deliberate  and  systematic  extermination  of  a  national,  racial, political,  or  cultural  group.

    The Salarians didn't kill or exterminate shit. They adjusted the rate of  viable embryos. The Krogan's high birth rate was a problem to begin with, the Salarians merely fixed it.  "
So it's preemptive genocide. By your logic it wouldn't be genocide if they rendered the Krogans completely infertile as well. However they did it, they hugely reduced the Krogan population. Regardless of whether it's deemed more horrible to reduce the population by killing those that are alive, or effectively killing those who would have been alive, your point is just a semantic one.
 
If you want to argue for the genophage, don't try to pretend like it wasn't an atrocity. Mordin made no bones about what they did. It was a horrible thing they did, but it was a horrible thing that most likely had to be done. That said, I agreed with Mordin.
 
p.s. Mass Effect is so great. The fact that a game deals with a topic so complex and mature gives me hope for games.
p.s.s. Didn't they say somewhere in ME1/2 that the 999/1000 Krogan children die after they are born?
#25 Edited by CrimsonNoir (391 posts) -

if you use the Holocaust as an analogy for the genophage then the Nazis would be the Krogan and the Jews would be the Salarians :P the Krogan became a threat to everyone. and people forget that they actually did commit genocide before the Krogan when they fought against the Rachni. which was the reason they recruited the Krogan in the first place, it's just that the Rachni were the current threat before that.

#26 Posted by sixghost (1679 posts) -
@Enigma777 said:
" None of those options cover my viewpoint. It sucks, but I understand why they did it and why it's necessary. I wouldn't go out of my way to cure it, but if I stumbled on a cure, I'd probably use it, but not because I need their help with the reapers. "
That's the most apathetic answer I've ever heard.
#27 Posted by audiosnag (1604 posts) -

I'm against.
At the same time...considering the circumstances and amount of time they had, I understand why they did what they did. It's a tough situation and part of what made Mordins character so freakin awesome. I guess it would have been ideal to find another solution, or not giving them all that damn tech in the first place.
Sure do love me some Mass Effect. Wrex dying sucked a lot.

#28 Posted by Undeadpool (4868 posts) -
@Rawrnosaurous: Then the Salarians probably shouldn't have uplifted them in the first place. I get that it was to combat the Rachni and it had to be done, but it seems awfully short sighted. 
 
Although, here's an interesting what-if: the Krogan overrun the galaxy, the other races unite to fight them back and as a result are more prepared when the geth/reapers show up.
#29 Posted by JeffGoldblum (3659 posts) -

Pro Genophage and anti-cure at the moment. Maybe at some point their race could handle it, but at the moment, it would just result in another Krogan Rebellion.

#30 Posted by FunExplosions (5407 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
"

It's a no win situation, on one hand the genophage reduces the amount of krogans which is morally wrong. Yet if krogans overun the galaxy, they can really affect other species negatively because they are warlike creatures. I vote to keep the genophage, yet try to modify it so it will let them reproduce more than before.

"
Hitman's got a solid stance on this one.
#31 Posted by sixghost (1679 posts) -
@Undeadpool said:
" @Rawrnosaurous: Then the Salarians probably shouldn't have uplifted them in the first place. I get that it was to combat the Rachni and it had to be done, but it seems awfully short sighted.  Although, here's an interesting what-if: the Krogan overrun the galaxy, the other races unite to fight them back and as a result are more prepared when the geth/reapers show up. "
...or are in such shambles from the extended war that they never even stop the first attempted invasion.
#32 Posted by Undeadpool (4868 posts) -
@sixghost said:
" @Undeadpool said:
" @Rawrnosaurous: Then the Salarians probably shouldn't have uplifted them in the first place. I get that it was to combat the Rachni and it had to be done, but it seems awfully short sighted.  Although, here's an interesting what-if: the Krogan overrun the galaxy, the other races unite to fight them back and as a result are more prepared when the geth/reapers show up. "
...or are in such shambles from the extended war that they never even stop the first attempted invasion. "
Yeah, it definitely could've gone either way for the galaxy.
#33 Posted by fishmicmuffin (1039 posts) -

I went B. The genophage happened for a reason, but if the Krogans can be reasonable then they deserve to have their reproductive abilities restored. Also, if it means little baby Wrex running around somewhere... that's a win in my book.

#34 Edited by TheMasterDS (1867 posts) -

I'm Paragon so the game obviously expects me to cure it, but Krogan Genophage is a good thing. It keeps their numbers stable. If allowed to expand freely they'd do so at an unacceptable rate. I've opted to make sure not to cure it. I did spare the Rachni though, but I feel I can count on them since they're a hive mind and the being I impressed calls the shots for the lot of them. I couldn't get the loyalty of all Krogan, too many clans and such. Not really interested in using them for that purpose either, since history has proven after you use Krogans to win a war, they fuck you in the ass with their goddamn population growth soon enough.

#35 Posted by Vampire_Chibi (147 posts) -

Must be a pain being that big and strong when ball don't work.

#36 Posted by innacces14 (733 posts) -

Pro gen for me. Until they get their act together and stop being douche bags then I'll be okay with a cure being developed.

#37 Posted by TheHT (10287 posts) -

Ethically against it but pragmatically for it. But the way things are headed under Wrex' guidance, I would definitely consider curing it.
 
This issue gave me the most pause in ME2. I had to seriously think about it, even after thinking about it in ME1. Second would probably be Garrus' revenge.

#38 Posted by zudthespud (3278 posts) -

The inhibition of one race is better than the destruction of every other. 
 
pro genophage.

#39 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4282 posts) -

I personally think that the Salarians didn't have much of a choice, but that was... five hundred to a thousand years before Shepard's story began. In all of that time, something could have been done. Of course it wasn't, because if anyone remembers Wrex they'd know he was the only one trying to unite his people and keep the Krogan from the precipice of extinction. So the Krogan are war-like in their culture. So are the Turians. The Turians are muscle for the Citadel, that is their place. Trying to say "BUT THE KROGAN WOULD'VE GONE TOO FAR" is kind of silly when you have evidence of two war-mongering species joining Citadel Space and adjusting just fine (Humans and Turians). The Krogan were uplifted, and then told by the Little Green Men to go and kill a bunch of bugs. They did it. They were heroes. The Citadel built statues of Krogan on the Presidium, and yet while the Krogan were still adjusting to their newfound place of power, still trying to learn how to walk, they're slapped back down with a disease that stillbirths 999/1000 offspring.  
 
How anyone can honestly defend that as something "necessary" I have no idea. The Citadel didn't try to guide the Krogan, they just used them. And when the Krogan became "inconvenient" they tried to exterminate them. That's centuries of resentment and vengeance boiling over from the Krogan species to get back at the Citadel. Citadel doesn't care though, why would they? 
 
As far as the Krogan's genophage is concerned, you bet your ass I'm curing it. If the Krogan want vengeance, it is their right for being nearly driven to extinction. That said, with Wrex at the helm of the Krogan species on Tuchanka, I've got a feeling they're going to be just fine.  
 
Also, Krogan versus Reaper. That shit'll be off the hizzy.

#40 Edited by Falconer (1658 posts) -

Consider our planet, and more specifically, places like China. 
 
Think about it... 
 
Okay, now, you're an idiot if you're 100% against controlling population numbers in a humane manner. Is it totally fucked up ethically? Sure. But fucked up shit needs to be done sometimes. 
 
I know that I'm going to get flack for this post, but it's true.

#41 Posted by Trebz (487 posts) -

I picked B. The genophage was completely necessary, as cruel as the Krogan believed it to be. But if the Krogan as a whole prove themselves more useful to the rest of the universe, they should be granted some sort of solution; maybe a higher birth-rate that doesn't reach the rate pre-genophage but reaches a happy medium--if that's possible.

#42 Posted by JJWeatherman (14485 posts) -

This is tough, and this is why I loved Mass Effect 2. I think that I'm ultimately against the genophage, but I can see why they decided to go through with it. There's always another way, though. Shepard knows this (my Shepard did at least).

#43 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3642 posts) -
@Trebz said:
" I picked B. The genophage was completely necessary, as cruel as the Krogan believed it to be. But if the Krogan as a whole prove themselves more useful to the rest of the universe, they should be granted some sort of solution; maybe a higher birth-rate that doesn't reach the rate pre-genophage but reaches a happy medium--if that's possible. "

I wanted to cure it in the first game, but after a number of discussions with Mordin in the second, I got the impression that this is already what happened.  Mordin gave me the impression that they made the genophage to temper Krogan breeding, not cause an extinction.  When the Krogan as a whole responded poorly and the race began to die out, they modified it to make it more lenient, thus saving the Krogans from extinction.  I don't like the genophage, but now that it has happened, and won't ensure the extinction of the race, I'm staying out of it.
#44 Posted by natetodamax (19136 posts) -

I am pro genophage. It was either that or let the Krogan overrun the galaxy. In this situation, the survival of many many races seems more important than the vicious dominance of one violent race.

#45 Posted by Jeust (10342 posts) -

C. I was said I couldn't save the cure right on ME 1, when I stormed the Krogan reproduction facility. 

#46 Edited by melcene (3056 posts) -

I would say I'm against it.  I understand why the Salarians had to do it, since they already screwed things up and were trying to make it right. 
 
However, I did see it as a basic equivalent to genocide.  It wasn't complete genocide, but the fact that they made it so the race had difficulty reproducing was just as bad.  Also, it really fucked with the Krogans sociologically.   
 
That being said, I think I had let Mordrin keep what we had retrieved on the genophage data.  For scientific purposes.

#47 Posted by GetEveryone (4454 posts) -

Krogan, you silly fool. 
 
I'm pretty sure that they're morally in the wrong, but it's a hard (albeit fictional) problem nonetheless.

#48 Posted by JeanLuc (3518 posts) -

wow I think all the mixed reactions proves how good Bioware is at giving you something to think about.

#49 Posted by Swoxx (2980 posts) -

Where's the "I'm not touching that one with a 50 foot pole" option?

#50 Edited by ThePickle (4149 posts) -

Pro genophage. Krogans are hard people to reason with. 

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