My frustration with the Suicide Mission *Spoilers*

#1 Posted by CenturionCajun (1461 posts) -

So, I just got to the suicide mission and thought I was cruising. Got onto the Collector's Base with no casualties and was blazing my way through. Not really thinking about it I picked Tali as the Tech Specialist and Zaeed as the Fire Team Leader. So, I get all the way through the first section, Tali goes to close the door...and gets shot in the head.
 
Why?
 
I had everyone's loyalty and had fully upgraded the Normandy. So, my question is why did that happen? I can't for the life of me figure this out. I'm mostly frustrated because I was in such a hurry to get to the endgame I forgot to save for about the last two hours of the game. So, I'm going to have to go back and replay the Reaper IFF and Legion's loyalty mission. I know that's mostly my fault but the whole thing has soured me to the point I'm thinking about putting the game on the shelf for awhile.

#2 Posted by mazik765 (2315 posts) -

Zaeed is the wrong choice as squad leader as far as I know. I always choose either Miranda or Garrus for squad leader.

#3 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -

That is a surprise. Tali was supposed to be an assured survival if you chose her for that part with her gained loyalty. =S 
 
I think it's maybe down to who was picked in the firing squad as well, since a lesser leader may not provide the right amount of firepower to hold them back ect. I do know that Zaeed isn't regarded as one of the best members to pick for the team leader role, ironically considering he did use to run his own merc band. Should give that position to Jacob or Garrus next time you go, still using Tali for the vents.

#4 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

Tech Specialists don't make good fire team leaders. 
@mazik765 said:

" Zaeed is the wrong choice as squad leader as far as I know. I always choose either Miranda or Garrus for squad leader. "
Those are good choices.
#5 Edited by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
@Axxol said:

" Tech Specialists don't make good fire team leaders. 
@mazik765 said:

" Zaeed is the wrong choice as squad leader as far as I know. I always choose either Miranda or Garrus for squad leader. "
Those are good choices. "
Zaeed wasn't a tech specialist, just a hardened soldier. Most likely his own bitterness and jaded personality is why he isn't on the list to make good as the secondary team leader.
#6 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -
@Abyssfull said:
" @Axxol said:

" Tech Specialists don't make good fire team leaders. 
@mazik765 said:

" Zaeed is the wrong choice as squad leader as far as I know. I always choose either Miranda or Garrus for squad leader. "
Those are good choices. "
Zaeed wasn't a tech specialist, just a hardened soldier. Most likely his own bitterness and jaded personality is why he isn't on the list to make good as the secondary team leader. "
Derp, my mistake.
#7 Posted by Moofey (65 posts) -
@Abyssfull said:
" That is a surprise. Tali was supposed to be an assured survival if you chose her for that part with her gained loyalty. =S  I think it's maybe down to who was picked in the firing squad as well, since a lesser leader may not provide the right amount of firepower to hold them back ect. I do know that Zaeed isn't regarded as one of the best members to pick for the team leader role, ironically considering he did use to run his own merc band. Should give that position to Jacob or Garrus next time you go, still using Tali for the vents. "
Both have to be loyal and ideal. (ex. loyal Tali for tech and loyal Jacob for fireteam) If not, then your tech specialist dies.  Mazik speaks the truth. (Can never go wrong with a loyal Garrus.)
#8 Edited by mazik765 (2315 posts) -
@Abyssfull said:

" That is a surprise. Tali was supposed to be an assured survival if you chose her for that part with her gained loyalty. =S  I think it's maybe down to who was picked in the firing squad as well, since a lesser leader may not provide the right amount of firepower to hold them back ect. I do know that Zaeed isn't regarded as one of the best members to pick for the team leader role, ironically considering he did use to run his own merc band. Should give that position to Jacob or Garrus next time you go, still using Tali for the vents. "

I think the idea behind why Zaeed is a bad choice is that while he ran a merc band he is not particularly concerned with preventing causalities under his command as long as the job gets done. I think he makes his selfish attitude abundantly clear during his loyalty mission :/
 
EDIT: haha beat me to it, but I will leave this post anyway.
#9 Edited by Skytylz (4025 posts) -

I made it through the suicide missions on both my playthroughs without any casualties.  I didn't even have everyone loyal either time and that's fine as long as you don't ever take them with you or assign them a role. 

#10 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.
 
And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow.

#11 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
@Moofey said:
" @Abyssfull said:
" That is a surprise. Tali was supposed to be an assured survival if you chose her for that part with her gained loyalty. =S  I think it's maybe down to who was picked in the firing squad as well, since a lesser leader may not provide the right amount of firepower to hold them back ect. I do know that Zaeed isn't regarded as one of the best members to pick for the team leader role, ironically considering he did use to run his own merc band. Should give that position to Jacob or Garrus next time you go, still using Tali for the vents. "
Both have to be loyal and ideal. (ex. loyal Tali for tech and loyal Jacob for fireteam) If not, then your tech specialist dies.  Mazik speaks the truth. (Can never go wrong with a loyal Garrus.) "
Yeah, I figured as much, like I said in my OP.
#12 Posted by Mike76x (555 posts) -
@IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors.
#13 Posted by Chris2KLee (2328 posts) -
@Mike76x said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors. "
Mordin's a good choice, but I actually sent Grunt, and everything still ended up fine.
#14 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -
@Chris2KLee said:
" @Mike76x said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors. "
Mordin's a good choice, but I actually sent Grunt, and everything still ended up fine. "
 
The reason you send Mordin to escort the survivors is that prevents him from being at the final battle with the rest of the nonparty characters, because that is where he tends to randomly die.
#15 Posted by DeeGee (2113 posts) -

In regards to why Zaeed is a bad choice to lead a team, head down and listen to his stories once in a while. They usually all in "and there were no survivors."
 
That dude gets everybody killed, man.

#16 Posted by Demyx (3237 posts) -

I was gonna talk about my own 2 game saves and what I did. But I just realized I didn't save the profile when I reimaged my computer... ;/
 
Anyway, yeah, don't pick Zaeed

#17 Posted by Ursus_Veritas (383 posts) -
@CenturionCajun: I know it's been a few days so you may have already noticed this or restarted from before the IFF mission any way... but you can just restart the game from the very start of the suicide mission. There's an option when you want to load a new game to simply restart your current mission - i.e, from when you get off the crashed Normandy. 
 
I had to do that on my all DLC playthrough when Tali bit the bullet in the 'hold the line' section - I too thought i'd have to redo the IFF and Legion stuff just to get there again, but I just used the Mission Restart option. Simple!
#18 Posted by apeman (189 posts) -

you shouldn't be frustrated.  it's a suicide mission.  my first playthrough, i had NO ship upgrades and thane, jack, and someone else died instantly.  Lost mordin too.  I wasn't frustrated--what an exciting end!
 
Because I'm a nerd like you, I'm replaying the game to do it "right," and having some fun on insanity.  But why be frustrated because you had a surprising and dramatic suicide mission?  It's just game...

#19 Posted by Chris2KLee (2328 posts) -
@IBurningStar said:
" @Chris2KLee said:
" @Mike76x said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors. "
Mordin's a good choice, but I actually sent Grunt, and everything still ended up fine. "
 The reason you send Mordin to escort the survivors is that prevents him from being at the final battle with the rest of the nonparty characters, because that is where he tends to randomly die. "
Oh I know, but the first time around he made it through on the normal team just fine. You're right though, later on on follow up runs, I usually chose him for the escort.
#20 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2682 posts) -

No one died on mine. 
 
Use more skill.

#21 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@Chris2KLee said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" @Chris2KLee said:
" @Mike76x said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors. "
Mordin's a good choice, but I actually sent Grunt, and everything still ended up fine. "
 The reason you send Mordin to escort the survivors is that prevents him from being at the final battle with the rest of the nonparty characters, because that is where he tends to randomly die. "
Oh I know, but the first time around he made it through on the normal team just fine. You're right though, later on on follow up runs, I usually chose him for the escort. "
I'm the odd man out, because I never used him on the suicide mission, and I never had any issues. I think if you pick an incompetent squadmate for a specific position, if they don't die, someone else will end up dying. 
 
@IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
How can you not pick Garrus? You ran with that dude since Mass Effect. It just feels right having him lead the firing squad. Just like old times. Also, much like the OP, I picked Zaeed to lead the fire squad the second or third time around. My main defense was because he was part of a game and ran it for a period of time, this would make him a good leader, plus, it might give him a chance at redemption, (just in terms of everything always going sour on him).
#22 Posted by kyrieee (379 posts) -
@IBurningStar said:
" @Chris2KLee said:
" @Mike76x said:
" @IBurningStar said:
" I always picked Garrus for squad leader. I have never had him die.  I'm not going to post any spoilers, so I am not going to explain why that always works.  And just because you did everyone's loyalty mission and picked what is suppose to be one of the correct choices doesn't mean they have a 100% chance to survive. Mordin is a good example of this, seeing as how a lot of people have him getting killed off somehow. "
Mordin needs to escort the survivors. "
Mordin's a good choice, but I actually sent Grunt, and everything still ended up fine. "
 The reason you send Mordin to escort the survivors is that prevents him from being at the final battle with the rest of the nonparty characters, because that is where he tends to randomly die. "
They don't "randomly die", they die if you leave the wrong people behind to guard the rear. Mordin is the weakest and if he's there he will be the first one to die. You can leave him there and still have everyone survive, every time. It's not random. Pick good defenders, like Garrus, Grunt, Zaheed, Jacob
#23 Posted by Yossarian (55 posts) -

So I just finished up my 2nd run and Legion died - the only party member who is not loyal.  I get that I should probably not assign him to any of the important roles, but if I keep him with me is there a chance he will survive?

#24 Edited by Ursus_Veritas (383 posts) -
@yossarian: Don't take him to the final boss fight - if he's unloyal, he will be crushed by the falling debris after you've defeated the boss. You can keep him with you up until that point, although because he's unloyal he will be first in line to die - if anyone does, that is - in the 'Hold the Line' group (the group that stays behind to hold off the collectors when you go to the core of the base)  if there aren't enough good 'defender' characters there too (people like Grunt, Zaeed and Garrus, Legion is also a good defender, but he takes a knock in your case because of his lack of loyalty). 
#25 Posted by Yossarian (55 posts) -
@Ursus_Veritas:  That is exactly what I did, and he did indeed die holding the line.  Maybe I will give it another shot before I take a stab at an insanity run.
#26 Posted by Smuglittleman (59 posts) -
@apeman said:
" you shouldn't be frustrated.  it's a suicide mission.  my first playthrough, i had NO ship upgrades and thane, jack, and someone else died instantly.  Lost mordin too.  I wasn't frustrated--what an exciting end!  Because I'm a nerd like you, I'm replaying the game to do it "right," and having some fun on insanity.  But why be frustrated because you had a surprising and dramatic suicide mission?  It's just game... "
Thanks Dude! I came to this forum because I was all salty that I lost  Tali in the same spot as the OP and then found out that most of my crew was dead but you are correct. I am ruining the ending of the game worrying about ever little detail. I need to just make my choices and let the story unfold. 
#27 Posted by NTM (7234 posts) -
@apeman said:
"

                    you shouldn't be frustrated.  it's a suicide mission.  my first playthrough, i had NO ship upgrades and thane, jack, and someone else died instantly.  Lost mordin too.  I wasn't frustrated--what an exciting end!  Because I'm a nerd like you, I'm replaying the game to do it "right," and having some fun on insanity.  But why be frustrated because you had a surprising and dramatic suicide mission?  It's just game...

                   

                "

It was Legion you're looking for that also died on the ship with Jack and Thane.
#28 Posted by Wunder_ (1167 posts) -
@DeeGee: Haha, so fucking true; hell, I never used Zaeed, that guy is a scary, scary man.

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