The Final Decision: Choose Your Side (Catastrophic Spoilers)

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#1 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -

There you are, exhausted after the marathon battle you waged to reach the core of the Collector's Base. The Illusive Man patches a transmission through and orders you to detonate a radiation bomb that would kill the base's inhabitants but leave the base itself intact for human salvage.  
 
Do You: 
 
A) Save the base, knowing that the Illusive Man is correct and that Reaper technology could give humanity the advantage against Harbinger and the Reaper Invasion? Making this choice, you must reckon with the idea that the technology is not in the hands of an altruistic faction like The Alliance, but Cerberus, a clandestine group that has, time and again, shown its ruthlessness for the the sake of its own (and, purportedly, humanity's) benefit.
 
B) Destroy the base and any hope for discovering a Reaper weakness? In making this choice, you are relying on the logic of your forethought. You acknowledge that there exist two paramount evils in this universe: The Reapers and Cerberus. If the Illusive Man gets his hands on Reaper weaponry, what optimism remains if the Reapers are thwarted? What fate will such powerful xenophobia bring to the other alien races, and in the the weakened state of the Alliance after the Reaper Invasion, how likely would it be that the Illusive Man instigates an insurrection that overthrows the governing body?
 
Pick your choice and state your claims for/against either decision.

#2 Posted by ArchScabby (5809 posts) -

I saved the base.

#3 Posted by SmasheControllers (2552 posts) -

Poll, Anyways B. Paragon all the way.

#4 Edited by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@SmashedControllers: I'd rather not have a poll, that way we can avoid someone accidentally stumbling in here and freaking out when they see the options to choose from.
 
Moreover, this is more about the debate between the two choices as opposed to "how-many-for-A/how-many-for-B".
#5 Posted by Lies (3868 posts) -

Saved it- you need every advantage you can get and throwing it away idealistically is just stupid.

#6 Edited by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -

B.
 
Why? 'Cause I don't trust that shady bastard, that's why.

#7 Edited by SmasheControllers (2552 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok: Good Point.
@Lies: As Zaeed said you don't ask why when someone gives you a gun, you use it.
#8 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@Lies said:
" Saved it- you need every advantage you can get and throwing it away idealistically is just stupid. "
And if it leads to a greater evil?
 
The Reapers, though incredibly resilient, aren't indestructible. A naval assault could prove to be a successful course of action. 
 
But the larger issue is the eventual, and inevitable, it seems, abuse of this technology by The Illusive Man. What if he builds a Reaper fleet of his own, subservient only to himself? And enslaves the greater Alien population? Does this implicate Shepard?
#9 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@SmashedControllers said:
@Lies: As Zaeed said you don't ask why when someone gives you a gun, you use it. "
But, as Mordin explained, giving the Krogans technology beyond their comprehension led to the stunting of their population. Without it, it's possible the Krogans could be a diplomatic race evolved beyond the point of tribal necessity. What does this omen say about the human acquisition of Reaper technology?
#10 Posted by ImperiousRix (2963 posts) -

My character made about 85% of his decisions in the Paragon realm, about 15% in the Renegade.  He was a tough cookie and a smartass, but he cared about his crew and about the fate of the universe, never really trusting the Cerberus organization (though he greatly trusted both Miranda and Jacob).  In the end, the Collector threat extinguished, he decided to finish the job completely and destroy the base for the good of all races.  The Protheans were finally well and truly gone, as was a golden opportunity to get a leg up on the Reapers, but at the cost of putting it in the hands of a man who could turn the weapon on whomever he felt based solely on a whim.  Cerberus may have done a lot of good, but that doesn't absolve their past mistakes, and the mistakes that they'd likely make with such a great and terrible power in their enigmatic hands.  
We figured out how to take out Sovereign, we found out how to wipe the Collector threat out, and we will find a way to finish off the Reapers for good.

#11 Posted by Venom09 (108 posts) -

I saved it. I want to see how that plays out in ME3

#12 Posted by HatKing (6056 posts) -

B.  The only reason you'd choose A is so you had a way to fight the reapers.  Thinking logically Bioware isn't going to make it impossible to fight the enemy so what is the point?  There will be some other way.  Although I plan on having another character just to see what that does.  What if it does net you a bunch of fantastic gear?  What if from using that gear you eventually become indoctrinated?  I am really curious to see how it plays out on both sides.
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#13 Posted by Dustpan (1694 posts) -

I blew the hell out of that base.

#14 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@HatKing said:
Thinking logically Bioware isn't going to make it impossible to fight the enemy so what is the point?
Haha. YOU'RE BREAKING THE GAME.
 
But, in all seriousness, I don't know man--there's a way your entire crew can die in one of Mass Effect 2's endings. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shitstorm of an ending in Mass Effect 3.
#15 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

So here is the thing no one seems to ever mention: Cerebus is less than 200 people. 
 
If the Illusive Man steps out of line, I  will fucking kill him. 
 
Even if he built a Reaper, it would only be one. And even if he went so far as to attempt Indoctrination on Shepard, the Geth would mostly likely be your ally and they vastly outnumber Cerebus and are (as far as we know) resistant to Indocrination due to being synthetics. 
 
The only reason I even hesitated in my desicion after the fact is because Legion made a good point Humanity advancing on it's own.  
 
However, what really clentched it for me was the fact that THE COUNCIL STILL DOESN'T BELIEVE IN REAPERS and I am going to fly their asses out there and shove it in their faces if given the chance.

#16 Posted by HatKing (6056 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @HatKing said:
Thinking logically Bioware isn't going to make it impossible to fight the enemy so what is the point?
Haha. YOU'RE BREAKING THE GAME.
 
But, in all seriousness, I don't know man--there's a way your entire crew can die in one of Mass Effect 2's endings. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shitstorm of an ending in Mass Effect 3. "

Haha... yeah I feel like cheating by thinking outside of the character... how would Shepard know that? 
 
Still I could see things being much different, I could see it being much easier with their tech.
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#17 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@HatKing said:
" @Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @HatKing said:
Thinking logically Bioware isn't going to make it impossible to fight the enemy so what is the point?
Haha. YOU'RE BREAKING THE GAME.
 
But, in all seriousness, I don't know man--there's a way your entire crew can die in one of Mass Effect 2's endings. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shitstorm of an ending in Mass Effect 3. "
Haha... yeah I feel like cheating by thinking outside of the character... how would Shepard know that?
It's like not feeling suspense for a character during a movie because you've seen the trailer and you know they live past a certain point.
#18 Posted by Skald (4369 posts) -

I saved the base. 
Cerberus is extreme, but not evil. As mentioned many times, they are the only force that actually cared about the missing colonies. The Alliance, despite it's heightened power after the events of Mass Effect, did nothing. Besides, The Illusive Man is neither crazy nor evil. Although not necessarily trustworthy, he has good motives. He seems to be the only person in the universe with enough money to fund Shepard who knows about or cares about the Reapers. I'd choose Cerberus over Alliance any day. The Illusive Man gives Shepard a much longer leash than the Alliance, and unlike the council, he actually cares about what Shepard finds. I think The Illusive Man is a powerful ally. Even if you don't trust him, handing over the base is a good diplomatic gesture going into Mass Effect 3.
 
Besides, I like humanity.

#19 Edited by Novyx (479 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish:

Since when is Cerberus less than 200 people? my impression from this and Ascension has always been that it has a very powerful support network with operatives installed pretty much everywhere.


And oh, B. Legion has the best explanation if you talk to him once you beat the game.

#20 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@extremeradical said:
" I saved the base. 
Cerberus is extreme, but not evil. As mentioned many times, they are the only force that actually cared about the missing colonies. The Alliance, despite it's heightened power after the events of Mass Effect, did nothing. Besides, The Illusive Man is neither crazy nor evil. Although not necessarily trustworthy, he has good motives. He seems to be the only person in the universe with enough money to fund Shepard who knows about or cares about the Reapers. I'd choose Cerberus over Alliance any day. The Illusive Man gives Shepard a much longer leash than the Alliance, and unlike the council, he actually cares about what Shepard finds. I think The Illusive Man is a powerful ally. Even if you don't trust him, handing over the base is a good diplomatic gesture going into Mass Effect 3.
 
Besides, I like humanity. "
Not evil?
 
What about the vile things they were doing at the end of Mass Effect 1?
 
And the experimentation on Jack that left her traumatized and unstable?
 
Not saying I don't agree, just saying I don't know we can make such bold claims just yet. And the Alliance had sent Ashley to the Horizon colony to gather information on the issue. They didn't stand idly by in totality.
#21 Posted by ImperiousRix (2963 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish:
I never actually thought of it that way.  I just really fear what they might do with that kind of power, and seeing what the Illusive Man said after I blew it to hell, I feel I made the right choice.  He just seems too fanatical about advancing humanity.  The universe don't belong to one race, it belongs to everybody.
#22 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @extremeradical said:
" I saved the base. 
Cerberus is extreme, but not evil. As mentioned many times, they are the only force that actually cared about the missing colonies. The Alliance, despite it's heightened power after the events of Mass Effect, did nothing. Besides, The Illusive Man is neither crazy nor evil. Although not necessarily trustworthy, he has good motives. He seems to be the only person in the universe with enough money to fund Shepard who knows about or cares about the Reapers. I'd choose Cerberus over Alliance any day. The Illusive Man gives Shepard a much longer leash than the Alliance, and unlike the council, he actually cares about what Shepard finds. I think The Illusive Man is a powerful ally. Even if you don't trust him, handing over the base is a good diplomatic gesture going into Mass Effect 3.
 
Besides, I like humanity. "
Not evil?
 
What about the vile things they were doing at the end of Mass Effect 1?
 
And the experimentation on Jack that left her traumatized and unstable?
 
Not saying I don't agree, just saying I don't know we can make such bold claims just yet. And the Alliance had sent Ashley to the Horizon colony to gather information on the issue. They didn't stand idly by in totality. "
Did you do Jack's sidequest? It makes it pretty clear that the Illusive Man wasn't involved at all with their severe treatment of the children.  
He probably ordered the experiments, but there is no way of knowing if he inteded of kids to die or not. 
 
And even if he did, it isn't as if Shepard hasn't thrown away lives before for what he believes in. 
At the end of Mass Effect 1 you are responsible for thousands of death either from the destroyed human fleets or the crew of the massive Destiny's Ascension. 
 
Now obviously the cirumstances were wildley different, but the point is still valid. 
 
Both of you have blood on your hands, and turning away an ally as powerful as the Illsuive Man is just sutpid.
#23 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -
@Novyx said:
"@LordXavierBritish:

Since when is Cerberus less than 200 people? my impression from this and Ascension has always been that it has a very powerful support network with operatives installed pretty much everywhere.


And oh, B. Legion has the best explanation if you talk to him once you beat the game.

"
After Joker gives EDI full control of the ship, she will answer questions about Cerebus that were previously classified and blocked. 
 
One of those being the Cerebus is approximatley 150 people divided into three cells. Shepard's being the Lazarus cell.
#24 Posted by Skald (4369 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish said:
" @Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @extremeradical said:
" I saved the base. 
Cerberus is extreme, but not evil. As mentioned many times, they are the only force that actually cared about the missing colonies. The Alliance, despite it's heightened power after the events of Mass Effect, did nothing. Besides, The Illusive Man is neither crazy nor evil. Although not necessarily trustworthy, he has good motives. He seems to be the only person in the universe with enough money to fund Shepard who knows about or cares about the Reapers. I'd choose Cerberus over Alliance any day. The Illusive Man gives Shepard a much longer leash than the Alliance, and unlike the council, he actually cares about what Shepard finds. I think The Illusive Man is a powerful ally. Even if you don't trust him, handing over the base is a good diplomatic gesture going into Mass Effect 3.
 
Besides, I like humanity. "
Not evil?
 
What about the vile things they were doing at the end of Mass Effect 1?
 
And the experimentation on Jack that left her traumatized and unstable?
 
Not saying I don't agree, just saying I don't know we can make such bold claims just yet. And the Alliance had sent Ashley to the Horizon colony to gather information on the issue. They didn't stand idly by in totality. "
Did you do Jack's sidequest? It makes it pretty clear that the Illusive Man wasn't involved at all with their severe treatment of the children.  He probably ordered the experiments, but there is no way of knowing if he inteded of kids to die or not.  And even if he did, it isn't as if Shepard hasn't thrown away lives before for what he believes in. At the end of Mass Effect 1 you are responsible for thousands of death either from the destroyed human fleets or the crew of the massive Destiny's Ascension.  Now obviously the cirumstances were wildley different, but the point is still valid.  Both of you have blood on your hands, and turning away an ally as powerful as the Illsuive Man is just sutpid. "
This is about the end justifying the means. Giving the base to The Illusive Man might not be the best idea under normal conditions, but exceptions must be made under such extreme circumstances. Although destroying the tainted technology might be morally right, that choice won't help you against the Reapers, and I fail to see how a well-funded pro-human group could be more dangerous than an armada of well-armed and completely remorseless conquerors.
#25 Posted by Korone (402 posts) -

I blew that shit up.

#26 Posted by Korone (402 posts) -

Mostly out of dislike of Martin Sheen.

#27 Edited by Capum15 (4959 posts) -

I blew it up, but I really did think you could get some kind of Paragon/Charm thing and maybe at least stay as an operative or something.
 
But, alas, it was not to be. Oh well, I believe in what Legion said, have technology given to you and culture stagnates like the Krogan. Hopefully, the Alliance will make some advancements before the invasion. I still have some trust in the Council and the Alliance (even though they never really do much...and where's Admiral Hackett! He was awesome).

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#28 Posted by immike (714 posts) -

B. I knew that Cerberus was up to no good. They have shown me no signs of good towards the galaxy as a whole just humans (supposedly). Also, even then, they risk the lives of many humans just to satisfy their needs. It's not the type of organization I want with this type of facility.

#29 Posted by Ferros (223 posts) -

Blew it up. I played Paragon so all that time and effort I spent as Shepard building a crew of different species to fight the collectors kind of flew in the face of the pro-human agenda of the Illusive Man. I deliberately made choices throughout the game that would strengthen all the species I came in contact with. Reprogramed the geth, told the Quarians not to go to war, even heard from the asari about the rachni I saved in ME1. The Reapers threaten the entire galaxy, the entire galaxy can fight the Reapers

#30 Posted by Coltonio7 (3156 posts) -

Blew that shit up. No one should have that much awesomeness in their hands, especially not Cerberus.

#31 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@Cornman89 said:
" B.  Why? 'Cause I don't trust that shady bastard, that's why. "
This.
 
The Illusive Man's intentions are relatively fuzzy, and that's what scares the shit out of me. His frantic speech at the very end when you defeated the Terminator about saving the base, made it seem he was desperate. My concern is The Illusive Man has ulterior motives, and he wanted to destroy The Collectors just so he could use their technology t make humans some sort of superior Nazi-like race.
#32 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" @Cornman89 said:
" B.  Why? 'Cause I don't trust that shady bastard, that's why. "
This.  The Illusive Man's intentions are relatively fuzzy, and that's what scares the shit out of me. His frantic speech at the very end when you defeated the Terminator about saving the base, made it seem he was desperate. My concern is The Illusive Man has ulterior motives, and he wanted to destroy The Collectors just so he could use their technology t make humans some sort of superior Nazi-like race. "
Good. 
 
Good answers, all. I'm digging seeing what choices everybody went with, but the real meat of the conversation involves the ethics of the choice. Because that's how arguments get started. And what good is an internet forum if we can't get an argument going?
#33 Posted by MildMolasses (3226 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok:
I'm going for that ending now. I'm going on a pure paragon playthrough, without doing any loyalty quests and will not research any upgrades except for the hand assault rifles and pistols (only because I don't want every fight to drag on forever). I'm hoping I can lose Shepard too, as I'm sure the Bioware guys have said that's possible. 
 
I want to know what the worst case scenario is, and how ME 3 will work if everyone is dead
#34 Posted by HistoryInRust (6372 posts) -
@MildMolasses said:
" @Sir_Ragnarok: I'm going for that ending now. I'm going on a pure paragon playthrough, without doing any loyalty quests and will not research any upgrades except for the hand assault rifles and pistols (only because I don't want every fight to drag on forever). I'm hoping I can lose Shepard too, as I'm sure the Bioware guys have said that's possible.  I want to know what the worst case scenario is, and how ME 3 will work if everyone is dead "
I wonder if you can even survive the relay jump without any of the Normandy's upgrades. 
 
Also, there's a loading screen that reads: "Port your Shepard to Mass Effect 3 . . . if you survive."
 
So, I'm assuming dead Shepard means dead Shepard. Which means dead galaxy.
#35 Posted by General_D23 (1201 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @MildMolasses said:
" @Sir_Ragnarok: I'm going for that ending now. I'm going on a pure paragon playthrough, without doing any loyalty quests and will not research any upgrades except for the hand assault rifles and pistols (only because I don't want every fight to drag on forever). I'm hoping I can lose Shepard too, as I'm sure the Bioware guys have said that's possible.  I want to know what the worst case scenario is, and how ME 3 will work if everyone is dead "
I wonder if you can even survive the relay jump without any of the Normandy's upgrades.   Also, there's a loading screen that reads: "Port your Shepard to Mass Effect 3 . . . if you survive."  So, I'm assuming dead Shepard means dead Shepard. Which means dead galaxy. "

That's it exactly. 
 
Dead is dead. Shepard dying at the end of the final mission means you can't import that file into ME3.
#36 Posted by Semition (731 posts) -
@General_D23: aww. I wanted to play as joker in ME3. :(
#37 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Save the base.  Humans gotta take back their crowns as rightful owners of the galaxy.  
 
We built the god damn F-22, we earned it.  :D

#38 Posted by zyn (2591 posts) -

B.  My thoughts: destorying it so that nobody else can use it.  Saving it would delay the inevitable that it can be restarted by the Reapers and used against humanity (er... and aliens).

#39 Posted by carlthenimrod (1597 posts) -

I blew that fucker up. I don't trust the Illusive Man, especially after he essentially betrayed me by sending me into the Collector's ship knowing full well it was a trap. That motherfucker!
 
Also, he has crazy eyes.

#40 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@zyn said:
" B.  My thoughts: destorying it so that nobody else can use it.  Saving it would delay the inevitable that it can be restarted by the Reapers and used against humanity (er... and aliens). "
Aliens treat humans like shit though, so what's the point of helping the Aliens when they don't give a fuck about us?
#41 Posted by MildMolasses (3226 posts) -
@General_D23:
That's what I want to see. I want to know how Bioware handles the game with zero character continuity. Unless Cerberus just makes another shepard, which would probably be the lamest cop-out ever
#42 Posted by Jeffsekai (7049 posts) -

Saved it

#43 Edited by Jams (2965 posts) -

Destroyed it. Too many bad possibilities could happen.
Illusive man could use it to his own agenda
The Reapers could easily reclaim the ship
The ship could act like Sovereign and mess with your brain like it did to Serus (whatever his name was from ME1)
Those were just some of the options that ran through my head at the time of the blowing up.
 
On a side note, I was very happen that I was able to save the crew of the Normandy 2 and everyone came back alive. EVERYONE. Paragon for the win!
 
EDIT:
Oh yeah, and if we can infiltrate a Reaper base and blow it up once, I'm sure we can do it again. Especially since we know what to expect (and we know they're coming so we can be prepared).

#44 Posted by Creamypies (4088 posts) -

I destroyed it. The Illusive Man is too much of an unknown to trust him. Plus... Shepard's a badass! He/she don't need no tactical advantage to beat the reapers.

#45 Posted by megalowho (976 posts) -

I saved it. Immediately regretted it after talking to my crew and seeing the lustful look in the Illusive Man's creepy eyes as he looked upon his new toy, but I was (mostly) Renegade anyway. Felt like I should take it to its logical conclusion. 
 
Will have to play again so I have completed saves in either direction, not that I mind :)

#46 Posted by Maxszy (2067 posts) -

I blew the damn thing to hell. Yeah, it could offer certain technology, yet it also could totally backfire. Plus...that thing is pure evil, damn right I blew it to hell.

#47 Posted by SonicFire (821 posts) -

If you played all the ME1 sidequests, its pretty clear that cerberus does some really terrible things. It's Machiavellian tactics taken to an extreme (ends justify the means). So yeah, screw those guys.

#48 Posted by JubJub677 (31 posts) -

I blew up the base. You can't trust Martin Sheen with robotic eyes.

#49 Edited by Whiskeyjack (110 posts) -

B - Kaboom.
 
Both Mordin and Legion, as mentioned in posts above, caution the gifting of technology to those who haven't earned it.
 
 While the Cerberus members the Illusive Man gave Shepard were more sympathetic to the rest of the universe, while still understandably concerned about humanities place in it. The Illusive Man himself and the actions of Cerberus in ME1 seem, to me, to be Earth First.. and let the xenos burn.  And my Shepard doesn't like that shit.
 
 I was more torn with the Legion loyalty quest choice.

#50 Posted by Nictel (2430 posts) -

B. I have an army of Arachni and Geth at my (probably) disposal. Who needs Reaper tech? Besides every single piece of Reaper/Collector technology has turned against you and attacked you. When you tried to upload the data from the Collector ship and when you installed the chip to enter the Omega 4 relay. That station is going to turn on you.

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