Wow, not even bending the truth but a straight up lie from Bioware. Not only did they say it WAS NOT part of the core game but was created by a separate team, and finished AFTER the certification. Kind of despicable. This guy gets the squad member with a simple file edit, no DLC installed. People mentioning it in their forums are being banned and the posts deleted too.
 
  

Send in the biobots!

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

Ohh dear

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

To be fair, that's probably only the squadmember, not the mission that comes with the DLC. Having said that, it's still baffling why they chose to make both the character (and the impact he has on other characters such as Liara) and his mission DLC, given the big role the Protheans have in the Mass Effect Universe.

@Revan_NL said:

To be fair, that's probably only the squadmember, not the mission that comes with the DLC. Having said that, it's still baffling why they chose to make both the character (and the impact he has on other characters such as Liara) and his mission DLC, given the big role the Protheans have in the Mass Effect Universe.

How is it baffling? The answer is money.

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

So you just totally ignored the video and my post I'm guessing?

Nope I watched it. All the video proves is that the new character was completed as a working squad member before the game hit certification and integrated into the retail code which makes perfect sense since that's one of the first things they would have had to make sure was working right. This does nothing to disprove their three claims that the DLC was A) not part of the core game B) developed by a separate team or C) content complete after cert.

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

So you just totally ignored the video and my post I'm guessing?

Nope I watched it. All the video proves is that the new character was completed as a working squad member before the game hit certification and integrated into the retail code which makes perfect sense since that's one of the first things they would have had to make sure was working right. This does nothing to disprove their three claims that the DLC was A) not part of the core game B) developed by a separate team or C) content complete after cert.

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

So you just totally ignored the video and my post I'm guessing?

Nope I watched it. All the video proves is that the new character was completed as a working squad member before the game hit certification and integrated into the retail code which makes perfect sense since that's one of the first things they would have had to make sure was working right. This does nothing to disprove their three claims that the DLC was A) not part of the core game B) developed by a separate team or C) content complete after cert.

So a full character, in the retail box, in fully working order is not part of the core game?

Alright, except for the fact that it doesn't show any if that unlocked any of the conversations that you have with him(as in full cutscenes, not just in game dialogue), nor does it show the mission that comes with the DLC are on the disc. The DLC is 600 MB. To think that it's all just on the disc is ridiculous.

@Metal_Mills said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Metal_Mills: No you're just an idiot. How were they lying?

Read the fucking video and post you dunce. "The content was developed by a seperate team and finished well after ME3 certification" yet it's on the disc. That's a lie. "We would never take stuff out of the core game and make it DLC only". Lie. The squad member is in the core game and made DLC only. Understand now?

I don't think you understand what certification is. On disc DLC does not mean it wasn't developed by a separate team. Certification takes a long time and they could have finished the DLC and gotten on the disc before they pressed the discs.

How does having a playable character automatically make him part of the core game? He's a DLC character that you can have in your squad. Why would they release a playable DLC character that you couldn't include in your squad.

There's not one thing in that video that makes any of their statements false.

That vid failed to show the eden prime mission and the cutscenes of Javik in the past. The best parts of the dlc imo. If it turns out that they are on disc too, I'd be pissed. But atm I'm not bothered.

@Metal_Mills: there is more that goes into content creation for games than having one character finished, you're over simplifying things if you think all it takes to make a game is to build the geometry and splash a coat of paint on it.

@Metal_Mills said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Metal_Mills: No you're just an idiot. How were they lying?

Read the fucking video and post you dunce. "The content was developed by a seperate team and finished well after ME3 certification" yet it's on the disc. That's a lie. "We would never take stuff out of the core game and make it DLC only". Lie. The squad member is in the core game and made DLC only. Understand now?

I don't think you understand what certification is. On disc DLC does not mean it wasn't developed by a separate team. Certification takes a long time and they could have finished the DLC and gotten on the disc before they pressed the discs.

How does having a playable character automatically make him part of the core game? He's a DLC character that you can have in your squad. Why would they release a playable DLC character that you couldn't include in your squad.

There's not one thing in that video that makes any of their statements false.

Not in this era of gaming. I agree that EA's DLC has gone too far, but it could still have been a separate team and resources devoted to it on the basis people would pay for it, and putting it on disc is a courtesy to those who don't want to download it.

@Metal_Mills: there is more that goes into content creation for games than having one character finished, you're over simplifying things if you think all it takes to make a game is to build the geometry and splash a coat of paint on it.

Yet not the rest of the dlc is on the disc.

@blueduck: This isn't baffling because BioWare thinks they're making money this way. It's baffling because we're apparently just another step down on the slippery slope that will lead to a 'business' model where large (and important) chunks of the game are missing only to be sold as day one DLC.

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@Metal_Mills said:

@StarvingGamer said:

So where is the part where they were caught lying?

So you just totally ignored the video and my post I'm guessing?

Nope I watched it. All the video proves is that the new character was completed as a working squad member before the game hit certification and integrated into the retail code which makes perfect sense since that's one of the first things they would have had to make sure was working right. This does nothing to disprove their three claims that the DLC was A) not part of the core game B) developed by a separate team or C) content complete after cert.

So a full character, in the retail box, in fully working order is not part of the core game?

Nope. I cook four plates of food. You are almost finished preparing an extra plate of food. When I'm about to serve my food, you ask me to take your one incomplete plate out with my four plates while you finish the garnish. Does this suddenly mean that your plate of food was always part of my meal plan, cooked by me, and complete when I placed it on the table?

EDIT: Are you trolling? You can't be this dense can you?

@Metal_Mills said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Metal_Mills said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Metal_Mills: No you're just an idiot. How were they lying?

Read the fucking video and post you dunce. "The content was developed by a seperate team and finished well after ME3 certification" yet it's on the disc. That's a lie. "We would never take stuff out of the core game and make it DLC only". Lie. The squad member is in the core game and made DLC only. Understand now?

I don't think you understand what certification is. On disc DLC does not mean it wasn't developed by a separate team. Certification takes a long time and they could have finished the DLC and gotten on the disc before they pressed the discs.

How does having a playable character automatically make him part of the core game? He's a DLC character that you can have in your squad. Why would they release a playable DLC character that you couldn't include in your squad.

There's not one thing in that video that makes any of their statements false.

Because it's on the disc. The disc is the core game.

No you're still coming across as an idiot.

You can't just make up whatever you want and state it as truth. You come up with the original Mass Effect 3 script that included the Prothean and I'll listen to your argument.

From what I recall there was similar stuff with Kasumi for ME2 as there were files related to her in the standard game which had people wondering if it was a scrapped character or an old name for Jack. Also some mention of hacking the game files to add her to the party without the DLC, though it is meant to be somewhat broken. I'm not too fussed if the model is already there, the main thing is the actual missions and scenes/dialogue related to it. Considering the size of the download I doubt everything is on the disc.

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

As someone said, the DLC download is rather large (600 mb). By virtue of you needing to download it it means it wasn't on the disk. The mission you are introduced to him is, but the rest of it (aka the downloaded content) is a separate part of the game. I can understand your irritation that the content wasn't included for free, but just because you want it doesn't mean it is a valid complaint.

@Revan_NL said:

@blueduck: This isn't baffling because BioWare thinks they're making money this way. It's baffling because we're apparently just another step down on the slippery slope that will lead to a 'business' model where large (and important) chunks of the game are missing only to be sold as day one DLC.

How do you know this isn't already happening? This is why PC gaming is making a huge comeback right now with their best games being extremely cheap or free to play. Consoles have proved to be excellent tools for screwing people over with lame, useless and always overpriced dlc. I mean really all this controversy will get EA better sales than it would have in the first place because its caused everyone to forget how awful every one of ME's other dlcs have been. The Biobots will rally around the flag and the money will poor in.

@Gravier251 said:

From what I recall there was similar stuff with Kasumi for ME2 as there were files related to her in the standard game which had people wondering if it was a scrapped character or an old name for Jack. Also some mention of hacking the game files to add her to the party without the DLC, though it is meant to be somewhat broken. I'm not too fussed if the model is already there, the main thing is the actual missions and scenes/dialogue related to it. Considering the size of the download I doubt everything is on the disc.

I was just about to come say the same thing. They did the exact same shit with Kasumi, the only difference is that the DLC came out a few months later. But her character model and her dialogue from non-DLC missions were on the disc well before they created her mission and made it available for sale.

Uhh. no matter what you guys say. Javik is IMPORTANT TO THE FUCKING GAME. He isn't like Zaeed which was a generic bounty hunter. Bioware expects you to pay for an extra character that is clearly essential to the game! He has a TON of dialogue and cut scenes! Bioware is dick for doing this. It sucks that consumers have to pay for a character that should have been on the disc. Shame they'll get away with this shit. I don't care if it was or wasn't made before the game was done or after. Javik is necessary for fans, he isn't some throw away dude like Zaeed. You have to admit, this shit is messed up!

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

The best part of "on the disc!" is that discs are meaningless. A large portion of people don't even have ME3 discs.

It also doesn't matter when it was made. This is what people are completely crazy about. You aren't buying the development process, and everything that was ever made during it. You are buying whatever they are selling for 60 dollars. It's up to you to make the value judgement on the 60 dollar product on offer. It's not all things ever created by BioWare Edmonton between 20110 and 2012. What if they had made the assets and VO for all three Mass Effect games at the same time, and then sold them all for 60 bucks each? They're the exact same games but now you believe you should have them all.

The three Lord of the Rings movies were shot at the same time. And yet they made you pay for three whole movie tickets. They cut scenes out of each movie too, things that they shot and decided weren't important enough to keep in. How dare they.

The 60 dollar retai purchase is for whatever the company is releasing for 60 dollars, it's not for some magical idea of WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Between this, the horrible demo where you barely had any dialog choices, and everything else, I guess I'm just going to watch a let's play for the story or something. At this point I really can't justify giving EA money.

not shocked at all people are looking for ways to defend this

@Metal_Mills: You've still failed to show how they've been caught lying and now you're going to magically produce the mass effect 3 script.

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

You are assuming that this is extra content, when it was on the disk at launch and could have easily been given away for free, if it was truly unimportant to the story there would be even less reason to make people pay for something they already own. It's bad press and greedy publishers.

It is not part of the core game! People can play all of the game without feeling this content is missing, having it is a good bonus.Its not like u have to pay extra for the last mission or anything

Also its not like they ever told us this content would be in the game. They havent taken anything away from us, It has only ever been talked about as DLC.

@Phatmac said:

Uhh. no matter what you guys say. Javik is IMPORTANT TO THE FUCKING GAME. He isn't like Zaeed which was a generic bounty hunter. Bioware expects you to pay for an extra character that is clearly essential to the game! He has a TON of dialogue and cut scenes! Bioware is dick for doing this. It sucks that consumers have to pay for a character that should have been on the disc. Shame they'll get away with this shit. I don't care if it was or wasn't made before the game was done or after. Javik is necessary for fans, he isn't some throw away dude like Zaeed. You have to admit, this shit is messed up!

So you're saying you would have would rather have DLC that included a character with very little dialogue and cut scenes?

@Mikemcn said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

You are assuming that this is extra content, when it was on the disk at launch and could have easily been given away for free, if it was truly unimportant to the story there would be even less reason to make people pay for something they already own. It's bad press and greedy publishers.

Well you're assuming it's not extra content and it's actually not on the disc.

@csx009 said:

not shocked at all people are looking for ways to defend this

Not shocked at all people are looking for ways to bitch about this.

Seriously people, it's not worth your time. I played through ME3, I didn't buy the DLC, it didn't feel like the game was incomplete in any way. It's not so much that BioWare deserves to be defended, it's that the complaints are so wildly out of proportion to the crime. So there's day one DLC, who gives a fuck, seriously?

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

You are assuming that this is extra content, when it was on the disk at launch and could have easily been given away for free, if it was truly unimportant to the story there would be even less reason to make people pay for something they already own. It's bad press and greedy publishers.

Well you're assuming it's not extra content and it's actually not on the disc.

Because it is on the disc.

@Mikemcn said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

You are assuming that this is extra content, when it was on the disk at launch and could have easily been given away for free, if it was truly unimportant to the story there would be even less reason to make people pay for something they already own. It's bad press and greedy publishers.

Well you're assuming it's not extra content and it's actually not on the disc.

@StarvingGamer said:

@Phatmac said:

Uhh. no matter what you guys say. Javik is IMPORTANT TO THE FUCKING GAME. He isn't like Zaeed which was a generic bounty hunter. Bioware expects you to pay for an extra character that is clearly essential to the game! He has a TON of dialogue and cut scenes! Bioware is dick for doing this. It sucks that consumers have to pay for a character that should have been on the disc. Shame they'll get away with this shit. I don't care if it was or wasn't made before the game was done or after. Javik is necessary for fans, he isn't some throw away dude like Zaeed. You have to admit, this shit is messed up!

So you're saying you would have would rather have DLC that included a character with very little dialogue and cut scenes?

Yes, fans are missing out if they don't get Javik. I'd rather it be someone else that isn't essential to the story. I'd want Javik to be a part of the team from the start. He's important to the story. Just admit that it's messed up that you have to pay 10 extra dollars to get a character that is vital to the story. I don't care about this non sense that they made it before or after. The facts are that you have to pay more money for a character that is important on day 1. Can't believe people are defending this shit. You keep defending this and it'll get worse.

I think what they've done with the DLC here is shitty on its own merits, but the DLC dude being included in the PC version doesn't really disprove anything they said. The PC version doesn't have to go through cert after all - they could keep working on it right up until the discs are printed (assuming this is a disc copy), or even up to release for the digital version.
 
@Kevin_Cogneto said:

So there's day one DLC, who gives a fuck, seriously?

@Phatmac said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@Phatmac said:

Uhh. no matter what you guys say. Javik is IMPORTANT TO THE FUCKING GAME. He isn't like Zaeed which was a generic bounty hunter. Bioware expects you to pay for an extra character that is clearly essential to the game! He has a TON of dialogue and cut scenes! Bioware is dick for doing this. It sucks that consumers have to pay for a character that should have been on the disc. Shame they'll get away with this shit. I don't care if it was or wasn't made before the game was done or after. Javik is necessary for fans, he isn't some throw away dude like Zaeed. You have to admit, this shit is messed up!

So you're saying you would have would rather have DLC that included a character with very little dialogue and cut scenes?

Yes, fans are missing out if they don't get Javik. I'd rather it be someone else that isn't essential to the story. I'd want Javik to be a part of the team from the start. He's important to the story. Just admit that it's messed up that you have to pay 10 extra dollars to get a character that is vital to the story. I don't care about this non sense that they made it before or after. The facts are that you have to pay more money for a character that is important on day 1. Can't believe people are defending this shit. You keep defending this and it'll get worse.

Javik is completely incidental to the story of ME3. Not a single decision that Shepard makes over the course of the game is informed by whether or not you have Javik in your party. Javik is basically a history lesson, only important if you care about the lore behind the Mass Effect universe.

Here's a steak. Do you want a potato?

Why doesn't it come with a potato?

Because it doesn't come with a potato, potato is extra.

I know you already have the potatoes! You could've given me the potato but instead you're making me pay for it!

We offered you the steak-n-potato dinner and you said you just wanted steak.

That's it I'm trading this steak into GameStop for some sausages!

@Mikemcn said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

@Hunkulese said:

@Mikemcn said:

We consumers are fucking stupid, we let them get away with this shit and then defend it, oh it's a seperate team! That makes it ok. It's going to get worse from here on out.

I like extra content for games I like and I have no problem with day 1 dlc. If it's released after I've finished the game and moved on chances are I probably wont be buying it.

We benefit as consumers with extra content that wouldn't have been created normally and they're not getting away with anything. I'd rather have day 1 dlc than no dlc.

You are assuming that this is extra content, when it was on the disk at launch and could have easily been given away for free, if it was truly unimportant to the story there would be even less reason to make people pay for something they already own. It's bad press and greedy publishers.

Well you're assuming it's not extra content and it's actually not on the disc.

Because it is on the disc.

The dlc is more than the character.

Eh what's the the point of arguing? Both sides are too entrenched to give in.

@Brodehouse said:

The 60 dollar retai purchase is for whatever the company is releasing for 60 dollars, it's not for some magical idea of WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think.

EDIT: Sure, the character is important in the Mass Effect universe, but he is not essential to the actual story in Mass Effect 3.

@Brodehouse said:

The best part of "on the disc!" is that discs are meaningless. A large portion of people don't even have ME3 discs. It also doesn't matter when it was made. This is what people are completely crazy about. You aren't buying the development process, and everything that was ever made during it. You are buying whatever they are selling for 60 dollars. It's up to you to make the value judgement on the 60 dollar product on offer. It's not all things ever created by BioWare Edmonton between 20110 and 2012. What if they had made the assets and VO for all three Mass Effect games at the same time, and then sold them all for 60 bucks each? They're the exact same games but now you believe you should have them all. The three Lord of the Rings movies were shot at the same time. And yet they made you pay for three whole movie tickets. They cut scenes out of each movie too, things that they shot and decided weren't important enough to keep in. How dare they. The 60 dollar retai purchase is for whatever the company is releasing for 60 dollars, it's not for some magical idea of WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

I agree with this. Is it a rip off? I think so but I can't make that decision for anyone else. I think it comes down to people not wanting this to happen to their console game or to see the developers of their favorite console game decide to do this. Prices on console games are going to keep rising and dlc is going to keep coming. However what does amaze me is that people are defending a faceless brand name company to the point where it seems like their working there. What gains are there to be made by defending them? They've already made tons of money and the people who are bitching the most have also bought the game so how is this hurting them and why are you defending them? Even if they're not ripping you off now they will keep pushing this way and at some point you will find yourself on the other team. However if you stop defending them and let them know this isn't ok then maybe they will stop going down this road, most likely not because as I've before they're still getting your money. There is nothing to be made my defending them but maybe something to be gained by at least saying something.

@Brodehouse said:

The 60 dollar retai purchase is for whatever the company is releasing for 60 dollars, it's not for some magical idea of WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think.

I guess I downloaded 500MB+ of extra lens flares then.

He feels well integrated into the game, unlike Zaeed and Kasumi. Plus he's a dick. Really unexpected.

@Brodehouse said:

The 60 dollar retai purchase is for whatever the company is releasing for 60 dollars, it's not for some magical idea of WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think.

EDIT: Sure, the character is important in the Mass Effect universe, but he is not essential to the actual story in Mass Effect 3.