Bioware rewrites parts of ME book,Artistic Vision still an issue?

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#51 Posted by Hailinel (23910 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow: When you can use that evidence to link optional costume DLC to a the editing of a piece of narrative fiction beyond the idea of "marketers, lol," then sure, I'll stop ignoring it. My point is, the existence of optional costume DLC does nothing to affect any supposed artistic vision because such DLC can be easily ignored and does nothing to affect the narrative of the game.

#52 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@Dookysharpgun: I think that's my major issue with this whole debacle. Both gamers and journalists alike have been blabbering about artistic integrity, as if no other medium changes its work postmortem. Blade Runner's original ending SUCKED, and the director's cut made sure to change it. I guess movies are over now, it's not art. e.e

#53 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow: Never! I'll cheer up when I'm dead! Honestly though, I do feel like changing a book, especially so quickly, when it was a novel based on a videogame, is irritating...and nobody wants to complain about artistic integrity on that? Or even the sheer awkwardness of altering a physical book and re-releasing it? I dunno, seems like a pretty weird thing to use the art argument to defend a game, when books are widely regarded as much more important from a creative standpoint. It's a serious double standard, and one that should be addressed appropriately.

#54 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow: When you can use that evidence to link optional costume DLC to a the editing of a piece of narrative fiction beyond the idea of "marketers, lol," then sure, I'll stop ignoring it. My point is, the existence of optional costume DLC does nothing to affect any supposed artistic vision because such DLC can be easily ignored and does nothing to affect the narrative of the game.

That it can easily be ignored that preclude its existence or the significance of said existence.  People could choose to ignore Deception too; it's as optional the N7 Uniform DLC but the fact is that both have a direct impact on the artistic vision of each story and the games which each story relates to. 
#55 Posted by Brendan (7687 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

My question is, why didn't anyone at Bioware point out how batshit-off-the-rails Deception flies from established canon and logic before the first edition was published and require a rewrite?

Between SWTOR and ME3n they were stuck in a building full of computers, not giving a fuck. The guy who was supposed to look over the book was on vacation.

#56 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

@allworkandlowpay: Exactly. I dislike the artistic integrity view, because it really has been proven false on every level since great literature first emerged. Movies are as much an art form as books, TV shows and videogames...yet for some unknown reason, videogames deserve special treatment. It's all about the audience first, and it really isn't that big a deal to change things...people do it all the time...that's why editors exist, they have a defined role...it's why they screen test movies. TV shows live or die based on viewership. Videgames get a free pass because? Why? The devs work hard? The writers are 'proud' of their rushed work? Welcome to the exclusive club called 'Anyone who was ever involved in anything ever', it doesn't give you a free pass. When I write something, and someone points out a problem with it...I change it, because I can see a way to keep the original vision and still deliver what I wanted to convey...it isn't that hard, it just takes some creativity. I don't use integrity as an excuse, nobody should.

#57 Posted by Hailinel (23910 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow: When you can use that evidence to link optional costume DLC to a the editing of a piece of narrative fiction beyond the idea of "marketers, lol," then sure, I'll stop ignoring it. My point is, the existence of optional costume DLC does nothing to affect any supposed artistic vision because such DLC can be easily ignored and does nothing to affect the narrative of the game.

That it can easily be ignored that preclude its existence or the significance of said existence. People could choose to ignore Deception too; it's as optional the N7 Uniform DLC but the fact is that both have a direct impact on the artistic vision of each story and the games which each story relates to.

Deception's story is meant to tie into the games, just like the previous novels. It just happens to be a terrible book that contains a laughable number of inconsistencies with the established nature of the ME universe that anyone familiar with the source material could easily identify.

Final Fantasy XIII-2's costumes are just extra costumes with no bearing on the narrative in any sense and are no different from alternate costumes or skins found in any number of other games as unlockables or as DLC.

#58 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow: When you can use that evidence to link optional costume DLC to a the editing of a piece of narrative fiction beyond the idea of "marketers, lol," then sure, I'll stop ignoring it. My point is, the existence of optional costume DLC does nothing to affect any supposed artistic vision because such DLC can be easily ignored and does nothing to affect the narrative of the game.

That it can easily be ignored that preclude its existence or the significance of said existence. People could choose to ignore Deception too; it's as optional the N7 Uniform DLC but the fact is that both have a direct impact on the artistic vision of each story and the games which each story relates to.

Deception's story is meant to tie into the games, just like the previous novels. It just happens to be a terrible book that contains a laughable number of inconsistencies with the established nature of the ME universe that anyone familiar with the source material could easily identify.

Final Fantasy XIII-2's costumes are just extra costumes with no bearing on the narrative in any sense and are no different from alternate costumes or skins found in any number of other games as unlockables or as DLC.

They picked a poor writer to make this one, which is a shame, but to say that the majority or even a laughable amount of inconsistencies would be familiar to anybody familiar with the source material is a bit of a stretch. Seriously, a lot of the complaints were about reaaaally obscure, inconsequential shit:

For example:

Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven - while not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society, one consequence of which is possession of one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. And even if there had been a raid on Palaven, the turians would have likely responded with overwhelming military force.
#59 Posted by FTomato (233 posts) -

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

#60 Posted by Village_Guy (2495 posts) -

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Mr. Tomato here is right, there is nothing wrong with fixing glaring issues with continuity - ignoring these kinds of issues only creates confusion and aggravates fans.

#61 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Village_Guy said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Mr. Tomato here is right, there is nothing wrong with fixing glaring issues with continuity - ignoring these kinds of issues only creates confusion and aggravates fans.

As opposed to employing hack writers to pen stories both in and out the games.
#62 Posted by Village_Guy (2495 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Village_Guy said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Mr. Tomato here is right, there is nothing wrong with fixing glaring issues with continuity - ignoring these kinds of issues only creates confusion and aggravates fans.

As opposed to employing hack writers to pen stories both in and out the games.

Well that is the root of the problem, if they didn't have that problem this discussion wouldn't exist. And since they couldn't get better writers, they are at least trying to contain what they can of the cluster-fuck that got released.

#63 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Village_Guy said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Village_Guy said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Mr. Tomato here is right, there is nothing wrong with fixing glaring issues with continuity - ignoring these kinds of issues only creates confusion and aggravates fans.

As opposed to employing hack writers to pen stories both in and out the games.

Well that is the root of the problem, if they didn't have that problem this discussion wouldn't exist. And since they couldn't get better writers, they are at least trying to contain what they can of the cluster-fuck that got released.

They could get better writers.  They chose not to because they actively do not care about the Artistic Integrity of the franchise, nor what their audience thinks.  They do, however, care about a lot of bad press and so they're now taking some small and useless steps to edit history as it were.
#64 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@allworkandlowpay said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow: When you can use that evidence to link optional costume DLC to a the editing of a piece of narrative fiction beyond the idea of "marketers, lol," then sure, I'll stop ignoring it. My point is, the existence of optional costume DLC does nothing to affect any supposed artistic vision because such DLC can be easily ignored and does nothing to affect the narrative of the game.

That it can easily be ignored that preclude its existence or the significance of said existence. People could choose to ignore Deception too; it's as optional the N7 Uniform DLC but the fact is that both have a direct impact on the artistic vision of each story and the games which each story relates to.

Deception's story is meant to tie into the games, just like the previous novels. It just happens to be a terrible book that contains a laughable number of inconsistencies with the established nature of the ME universe that anyone familiar with the source material could easily identify.

Final Fantasy XIII-2's costumes are just extra costumes with no bearing on the narrative in any sense and are no different from alternate costumes or skins found in any number of other games as unlockables or as DLC.

They picked a poor writer to make this one, which is a shame, but to say that the majority or even a laughable amount of inconsistencies would be familiar to anybody familiar with the source material is a bit of a stretch. Seriously, a lot of the complaints were about reaaaally obscure, inconsequential shit:

For example:

Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven - while not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society, one consequence of which is possession of one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. And even if there had been a raid on Palaven, the turians would have likely responded with overwhelming military force.

- I'm going to assume you didn't have a problem with the ending of the game then, either. The issue with Batarians invading Palaven is huge. As a real-world comparison, it would be like Somali pirates invading Washington D.C. to capture slaves and there being minimal response.

Less offensive action in the Mass Effect universe resulted in the First Contact War, which is why Cerberus exists at all. That negative first contact with the Turians destroying a human ship for being where it wasn't supposed to be resulted in an intergalactic war, and humans are far less militaristic than Turians.

Even not knowing anything about the game universe at all, an attack on any species' homeworld is going to result in the largest response that species is capable of. There's a reason why bad things like slaver raids always happen on the most remote outposts. More than likely the writer just had a list of planets and grabbed one at random to have his Batarians raid. He just picked the wrong one.

#65 Posted by FreakAche (2949 posts) -

Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3! Occupy the citadel! Hold the line! Retake Mass Effect! Forbes Forbes Forbes!

#66 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@FreakAche said:

Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3 Mass Effect 3! Occupy the citadel! Hold the line! Retake Mass Effect! Forbes Forbes Forbes!

Generic fanboy of successful arseholes intercedes.  Lamers gonna lame.
#67 Posted by Phatmac (5721 posts) -

I love how people defend the ending as "Art." You want art? Play fucking Journey and fuck off really. That ending isn't art. It's a terrible ending that betrays what series is all about. They should have changed the ending. Guess it's too late now. I'm just tired of hearing the art debate. Go see it again and tell me if it's any good. It isn't art that's for sure.

#68 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5117 posts) -

I'd be more annoyed if a third party that had nothing to do with Mass Effect came in and decided to make the new ending or re-write the book without consent. If it's the original creators doing it I don't see a problem. Even when you talk about "artistic integrity" it's kind of like showing your friend an art piece and asking them what you should change about it to make it perfect. Problem is they already released their art piece. If they feel it necessary to go back and fix it up a bit that's their prerogative. I don't see how their artistic integrity is damaged because of it.

#69 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Except that Mass Effect 3s ending is full of errors that are on the same scale, and given that the last words you read in the series are "Downloadable Content", asking for a revision that fixes their errors to the game - which they advertise anyway - is no different or worse than asking for fixes for the book, which no one did anyway (at least compared to the number who did it for the game).

The writer of the book envisioned Gillian being 18, how is that "artistic vision" any different from the "artistic vision" of Joker flying through a mass relay, trying to outrun an explosion, when the game specifically says they are instant? How is it different from crew mates teleporting? How is it different from people teleporting around knowing things they couldn't have known?

#70 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@Enigma777 said:

Is this thread for real? Because there's just so much dumb in the OP that I don't even know where to begin...

Find somewhere. What is one specific thing you disagree with?

#71 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@Pinworm45 said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Except that Mass Effect 3s ending is full of errors that are on the same scale, and given that the last words you read in the series are "Downloadable Content", asking for a revision that fixes their errors to the game - which they advertise anyway - is no different or worse than asking for fixes for the book, which no one did anyway (at least compared to the number who did it for the game).

The writer of the book envisioned Gillian being 18, how is that "artistic vision" any different from the "artistic vision" of Joker flying through a mass relay, trying to outrun an explosion, when the game specifically says they are instant? How is it different from crew mates teleporting? How is it different from people teleporting around knowing things they couldn't have known?

Not to mention the changed premise from ME1 of the Reapers being the ones who built the Citadel instead of the other way around. That's kind of a biggie.

IRON WRITER WALTERS VS IRON WRITER KARPYSHYN: WHOSE ARTISTIC VISION REIGNS SUPREME?!?!! (Gonna have to go with Drew on this one.)

#72 Posted by Ghostiet (5225 posts) -
@Phatmac said:

I love how people defend the ending as "Art." You want art? Play fucking Journey and fuck off really.

Exactly. Or Red Dead, or Nier, or Planescape Torment, or Mother 3, or Earthbound, or Alpha Protocol, or...

Hell, inFAMOUS 2 got blasted for including color-coded moral choices, but its ending managed to be extremely emotional in both paths. It's very video-gamey, sure, but it shows even a "choose A, B or C" ending doesn't have to suck balls.

#73 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

Mass Effect is not art.

#74 Posted by N7 (3573 posts) -
@onan said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Except that Mass Effect 3s ending is full of errors that are on the same scale, and given that the last words you read in the series are "Downloadable Content", asking for a revision that fixes their errors to the game - which they advertise anyway - is no different or worse than asking for fixes for the book, which no one did anyway (at least compared to the number who did it for the game).

The writer of the book envisioned Gillian being 18, how is that "artistic vision" any different from the "artistic vision" of Joker flying through a mass relay, trying to outrun an explosion, when the game specifically says they are instant? How is it different from crew mates teleporting? How is it different from people teleporting around knowing things they couldn't have known?

Not to mention the changed premise from ME1 of the Reapers being the ones who built the Citadel instead of the other way around. That's kind of a biggie.

IRON WRITER WALTERS VS IRON WRITER KARPYSHYN: WHOSE ARTISTIC VISION REIGNS SUPREME?!?!! (Gonna have to go with Drew on this one.)

Wait a minute... wait just a minute... I had completely forgotten that. Actual spoilers BTW.
 
#75 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@N7 said:

@onan said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Except that Mass Effect 3s ending is full of errors that are on the same scale, and given that the last words you read in the series are "Downloadable Content", asking for a revision that fixes their errors to the game - which they advertise anyway - is no different or worse than asking for fixes for the book, which no one did anyway (at least compared to the number who did it for the game).

The writer of the book envisioned Gillian being 18, how is that "artistic vision" any different from the "artistic vision" of Joker flying through a mass relay, trying to outrun an explosion, when the game specifically says they are instant? How is it different from crew mates teleporting? How is it different from people teleporting around knowing things they couldn't have known?

Not to mention the changed premise from ME1 of the Reapers being the ones who built the Citadel instead of the other way around. That's kind of a biggie.

IRON WRITER WALTERS VS IRON WRITER KARPYSHYN: WHOSE ARTISTIC VISION REIGNS SUPREME?!?!! (Gonna have to go with Drew on this one.)

Wait a minute... wait just a minute... I had completely forgotten that. Actual spoilers BTW.

So it tuns out that, not only does the ending amount to "Yo dog, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics, so we built synthetics to kill you every 50,000 years so you wouldn't be killed by synthetics" but it also amounts to "Yo dog, we heard The Reapers built the Citadel, so The Citadel built The Reapers to build The Citadel so the Citadel could build The Reapers".

Are you fucking kidding me.

Not to mention, what the fuck was the point of Sovereign in the first game..

#76 Posted by NinjaHunter (972 posts) -

Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's Bioware's universe, it's their decision to say what fits their "artistic vision" and what doesn't. Not you, not me and not whoever wrote that book. You can complain and call foul but it's still Bioware's choice. If they feel a book full factual inaccuracies isn't part of their "vision" and at the same time say that the ME3 ending, which has maybe one factual inaccuracy and a few plot holes, is. That's their prerogative. All you can do is say, "Well, your artistic vision is shitty." and move on.

#77 Posted by Mnemoidian (955 posts) -

The core of the reason why it's different is very simple.

Bioware agrees that the book had inconsistencies.

Bioware believes that the reason why [most] people don't like the end of ME3 is because we are interpretating things they did not expect. They think that they can sell us on their vision on the end if they give us more information.

Can they? I don't know. I have some serious issues with the end, and it'll take a lot to convince me that the end wasn't just poorly mad (considering the care it deserved to receive). But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Getting a bit sick and tired of all the stupid conspiracy theories though. But I guess the Internet will be the Internet, eh?

#78 Posted by xyzygy (9895 posts) -

@Pinworm45 said:

@N7 said:

@onan said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@FTomato said:

@Ghostiet said:

@xyzygy

Out of curiousity, which character was turned straight? I read the other books and don't remember a gay character... but that was years ago

Hendel, I believe. Also, Gillian drops her autism which is called a 'phase', Kai Leng eats Anderson's cereal when he's in his apartment and oggles asari dancers, even though it was previously established that he finds their bodies repulsive. And quarians dress in rags, like space gypsys and give out ships by the fuckton.

Don't forget volus out of their suits (which should kill them immediately), the Batarians have an embassy in the Citadel after trying to assassinate the council, Gillian is 18 only 3 years after she's 12 in a previous book, and others.

Fixing continuity mistakes is not the same as jeopardizing artistic vision.

Except that Mass Effect 3s ending is full of errors that are on the same scale, and given that the last words you read in the series are "Downloadable Content", asking for a revision that fixes their errors to the game - which they advertise anyway - is no different or worse than asking for fixes for the book, which no one did anyway (at least compared to the number who did it for the game).

The writer of the book envisioned Gillian being 18, how is that "artistic vision" any different from the "artistic vision" of Joker flying through a mass relay, trying to outrun an explosion, when the game specifically says they are instant? How is it different from crew mates teleporting? How is it different from people teleporting around knowing things they couldn't have known?

Not to mention the changed premise from ME1 of the Reapers being the ones who built the Citadel instead of the other way around. That's kind of a biggie.

IRON WRITER WALTERS VS IRON WRITER KARPYSHYN: WHOSE ARTISTIC VISION REIGNS SUPREME?!?!! (Gonna have to go with Drew on this one.)

Wait a minute... wait just a minute... I had completely forgotten that. Actual spoilers BTW.

So it tuns out that, not only does the ending amount to "Yo dog, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics, so we built synthetics to kill you every 50,000 years so you wouldn't be killed by synthetics" but it also amounts to "Yo dog, we heard The Reapers built the Citadel, so The Citadel built The Reapers to build The Citadel so the Citadel could build The Reapers".

Are you fucking kidding me.

Not to mention, what the fuck was the point of Sovereign in the first game..

WTF. I didn't even clue in about the whole Citadel thing. Now there are two massive, hard to ignore plotholes I'm trying to wrap my brain around :S I think that in the first game, they were expecting to end the series on high high, logical and sensible note. Not the drivel they did. Sovereign's point was to open the Citadel, that the Reapers built... they "changed" the lore in ME3 which basically throws the whole purpose of Mass Effect 1 out of the window. Good job Bioware.

@NinjaHunter said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's Bioware's universe, it's their decision to say what fits their "artistic vision" and what doesn't. Not you, not me and not whoever wrote that book. You can complain and call foul but it's still Bioware's choice. If they feel a book full factual inaccuracies isn't part of their "vision" and at the same time say that the ME3 ending, which has maybe one factual inaccuracy and a few plot holes, is. That's their prerogative. All you can do is say, "Well, your artistic vision is shitty." and move on.

Saying that there is only one factual inaccuracy is a bit of a farce.

#79 Posted by Mike76x (555 posts) -

@NinjaHunter said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's Bioware's universe, it's their decision to say what fits their "artistic vision" and what doesn't. Not you, not me and not whoever wrote that book. You can complain and call foul but it's still Bioware's choice. If they feel a book full factual inaccuracies isn't part of their "vision" and at the same time say that the ME3 ending, which has maybe one factual inaccuracy and a few plot holes, is. That's their prerogative. All you can do is say, "Well, your artistic vision is shitty." and move on.

There was an original "artistic vision", then they changed it when Drew Karpyshyn left.

I pre-ordered the collector's edition, so I got more "artistic vision" than the standard edition.

They ran out of time, it has nothing to do with art.

#80 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@Mike76x said:

@NinjaHunter said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's Bioware's universe, it's their decision to say what fits their "artistic vision" and what doesn't. Not you, not me and not whoever wrote that book. You can complain and call foul but it's still Bioware's choice. If they feel a book full factual inaccuracies isn't part of their "vision" and at the same time say that the ME3 ending, which has maybe one factual inaccuracy and a few plot holes, is. That's their prerogative. All you can do is say, "Well, your artistic vision is shitty." and move on.

There was an original "artistic vision", then they changed it when Drew Karpyshyn left.

I pre-ordered the collector's edition, so I got more "artistic vision" than the standard edition.

They ran out of time, it has nothing to do with art.

That's an amazing photoshop job there. Love it.

Absolutely agree on them running out of time. I can't imagine any world where they thought after raising the bar as high as they did for the ending of ME2, they could phone the ending in for ME3. I find it impossible to believe they discarded one of the only things people saw about them that made them truly unique as a developer. ME2 can end in a dozen different and meaningful ways. Hell, the ME3 ending was set to conclude in a manner similar to Dragon Age: Origins, after recruiting various factions and having it all be reflected in your conclusion. Nothing nearly that satisfying.

The fact that Harbinger, the big bad from ME2 that taunts you throughout the DLC and leads the enemy charge in this one, and also almost BLOWS YOU UP at the end gets away scott free, only to potentially die off screen, that's complete and utter bullshit.

At the very least, with my dying breath right before fighting Marauder Shields, instead of having Harbinger fly away, let me order the captain of the Destiny Ascension, the capital ship I spared in ME1, to kamikaze dive bomb into Harbinger to take him the hell out. Even have her scream her last words over the communicator, "FOR THESSI---!!!!!"*crackle*

Bioware writers must have had a laundry list of cool moments they wanted to include, and they all got left on the cutting room floor. The existing ending very much screams "we ran out of time."

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