I beat ME3, before the ending DLC, and really don't have any reason or want to go back to it. That said, I'm curious as to what, exactly, happens in the Leviathan DLC. Is there anyone here who could give me a few paragraph summary or point me to somewhere I can find a good one already written? Mainly looking for the story of the DLC itself, as well as any little things not necessarily spelled out that impact the ending as everyone's said. Thanks!

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers Catalyst.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

EDIT: My mistake

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!???

@EpicSteve said:

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!???

sounds important right?

How the fuck was this not in the main game...

I want to go back and play it but I don't want to reopen old wounds.

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

...Really? REALLY?!

And they left that out of the main game? What in the blue hell...

Okay I just went to go read the Mass Effect wiki on the Leviathans and I am SUPER disappointed that this was left out of the main game. That's just insane.

So that's why the Reapers looked like weird octopus/squid things!

More details please.

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

WTF is this a joke? seriously?

All anyone probably need know is in here.

Wow, I just read the synopsis on the Mass Effect wiki. I cannot believe this was not in the main game. Alone, it would not make a better ending, but it would have at least helped me understand what in the world was going on. Like others have said, how was this not included in the main game?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Sorry, they created the Catalyst, who in turn created the Reapers.

@tourgen said:

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

WTF is this a joke? seriously?

nope. All true. The catalyst(I think that's what the star kid is called) turned on them after they created it, and used the Leviathan as the first reapers. Explains a lot, no clue why this was DLC, I mean you'd think something that vital to plot would be main game material. I recommend it.

You can just youtube it. Everything important just comes in an lore dump at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBQHpYP8ivU

@gaminghooligan said:

@tourgen said:

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers.

WTF is this a joke? seriously?

nope. All true. The catalyst(I think that's what the star kid is called) turned on them after they created it, and used the Leviathan as the first reapers. Explains a lot, no clue why this was DLC, I mean you'd think something that vital to plot would be main game material. I recommend it.

Holly. Shit.

Imagine how much better Mass Effect 3 would have been if Bioware didn't have to rush it out the door after two years.

@smcn said:

Leviathan is the species that created the Reapers Catalyst.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

EDIT: My mistake

God damn I so lazy I prefer to download the dlc than read that wall of text. Guess I'll do that, sounds interesting enough.

Haven't read the wiki yet (will after typing this) just watched the video posted by @kyrieee but does anyone know how the dlc works with the Trilogy Collections? I'm going to buy the PS3 one at some point to play through all of the games again (and for those delicious trophies) and not having Javic or this DLC seems stupid. Already played through it on 360 without them and I don't want to do it again.

Based on the video it sounded like they created both the Reapers and the Catalyst but you guys are saying differently, need to do some reading but probably will need some clarification. Like to talk things out.

EDIT: Alright, I think I got it and damn how this isn't in the game is fucked up, that is way to important to sell as DLC, I used to think the same as Javic but this is on another level. It obviously doesn't change the ending but changes how one would approach their decision. That just fucked up on Bioware and EA to hold that back.

WTF?

Wow, now I kinda feel the urge to complete my ME1 thru ME3 run with all the DLC available. I'll probably hold off for a bit longer since there is still talk of one more DLC set to come out. This is definitely starting to feel like on of those games @Brad has always alluded to as being an example of a game where signification amount of content was cut from the game then sold later as DLC.

@Nightriff said:

Haven't read the wiki yet (will after typing this) just watched the video posted by @kyrieee but does anyone know how the dlc works with the Trilogy Collections? I'm going to buy the PS3 one at some point to play through all of the games again (and for those delicious trophies) and not having Javic or this DLC seems stupid. Already played through it on 360 without them and I don't want to do it again.

Based on the video it sounded like they created both the Reapers and the Catalyst but you guys are saying differently, need to do some reading but probably will need some clarification. Like to talk things out.

They only created the Catalyst. Basically, the Leviathans observed the fall of species that occurred after said species began to create artificial life (see: Quarians). So they created the Catalyst with the express purpose of preserving organic life. Ironically, the Catalyst determined that the only way to preserve organic life was to destroy it once it began to approach the apex of creating artificial life. Thus, the Catalyst created Harbinger (the first Reaper) to hunt and destroy the rest of the Leviathans (except for the three that are hiding on 2181 Despoina, of course.)

Disclaimer: This is really a super-simplified version of events and isn't entirely accurate, you should read the aforelinked wiki page.

@smcn said:

@Nightriff said:

Haven't read the wiki yet (will after typing this) just watched the video posted by @kyrieee but does anyone know how the dlc works with the Trilogy Collections? I'm going to buy the PS3 one at some point to play through all of the games again (and for those delicious trophies) and not having Javic or this DLC seems stupid. Already played through it on 360 without them and I don't want to do it again.

Based on the video it sounded like they created both the Reapers and the Catalyst but you guys are saying differently, need to do some reading but probably will need some clarification. Like to talk things out.

They only created the Catalyst. Basically, the Leviathans observed the fall of species that occurred after said species began to create artificial life (see: Quarians). So they created the Catalyst with the express purpose of preserving organic life. Ironically, the Catalyst determined that the only way to preserve organic life was to destroy it once it began to approach the apex of creating artificial life. Thus, the Catalyst created Harbinger (the first Reaper) to hunt and destroy the rest of the Leviathans (except for the three that are hiding on 2181 Despoina, of course.)

Disclaimer: This is really a super-simplified version of events and isn't entirely accurate, you should read the aforelinked wiki page.

Eventually came to that conclusion (wiki set it all straight) but your synopsis is all anyone needs to read if they don't want to go too in depth, thanks!

Whaaaaaaat?

Wow. Do you know how much better the ending would have been if this was included from the start?

@ArbitraryWater said:

Whaaaaaaat?

Wow. Do you know how much better the ending would have been if this was included from the start?

with the extended cut, a little less convoluted non-sense and this dlc in the box it could have been a fitting ending to the best triligy of this generation.

I blame fucking EA for rushing the game out. Hope they learned their lesson and won't repeat the same mistake with dragon age 3

Leviathan plus the extended cut would have made that ending from disappointing shit to pretty good/not the greatest in my book. Shame that my initial experience of the plain old vanilla ending has just soured me on everything despite playing those things afterwards.

On the subject of "this should have been in from the start", as-is it doesn't fit into the structure of the game -- the goal of gathering armies and building the Crucible -- particularly well. If anything, it could have have replaced Arrival in Mass Effect 2.

@ArbitraryWater: That's what I told Brad on Twitter, he agreed, he played ME3 with Leviathan and the Extended Cut. Expect more discussion on this on tomorrow's bombcast.

@FLStyle said:

@ArbitraryWater: That's what I told Brad on Twitter, he agreed, he played ME3 with Leviathan and the Extended Cut. Expect more discussion on this on tomorrow's bombcast.

pretty sure he didn't dl the extended cut. A big mistake if you ask me

@pyrodactyl: I've just gone through his Twitter feed, he did have the EC, it was finding out the things that weren't in the original release after he finished it that shocked him the most.

@pyrodactyl: He did play it with the extended cut installed.

@FLStyle: @Colourful_Hippie: I Thought when he said he was shocked because of what was added in the extended cut, it was because he play the vanilla endings. You can interpret it both ways. I guess we'll find out for sure tomorow.

Side note: MAN is Jeff still a downer about this game. Always looking trough his rose tinted mass effect 2 branded glasses. Hope Brad and Vinny can fight for ME3 on the top ten this year, it still deserves it even with the bad ending.

@pyrodactyl: No, he straight up said that he played the EC. He was shocked at what was left out in the vanilla ending (looked it up online) and what the EC actually added. Also Jeff isn't wrong about Mass Effect 2 because it is the superior game in almost every way besides gameplay. I know that for sure when jumping into 3 right after 2.

Ancient all-powerful race of Psychic Squids creates Artificial Intelligence to find a way to stop Artificial Intelligence wiping out organic life. This created Artificial Intelligence decides to wipe out all organic life. In Defense of the Squids, they were so used to being in complete control of any of their thralls that they couldn't even consider that maybe creating an Artificial Intelligence would end badly for them as well.

@Nightriff said:

Haven't read the wiki yet (will after typing this) just watched the video posted by @kyrieee but does anyone know how the dlc works with the Trilogy Collections? I'm going to buy the PS3 one at some point to play through all of the games again (and for those delicious trophies) and not having Javic or this DLC seems stupid. Already played through it on 360 without them and I don't want to do it again.

The ME Trilogy Collection doesn't come with any ME3 DLC

I want a Leviathan squad member!

@Bocam said:

@Nightriff said:

Haven't read the wiki yet (will after typing this) just watched the video posted by @kyrieee but does anyone know how the dlc works with the Trilogy Collections? I'm going to buy the PS3 one at some point to play through all of the games again (and for those delicious trophies) and not having Javic or this DLC seems stupid. Already played through it on 360 without them and I don't want to do it again.

The ME Trilogy Collection doesn't come with any ME3 DLC

I'm aware of that but just purchasing from the store and it will be fine? Same as the left out ME2 content that I never got around to?

@Nightriff: Yes.

@ArbitraryWater said:

Whaaaaaaat?

Wow. Do you know how much better the ending would have been if this was included from the start?

Not that much if you hate it already though I thought they gave more context about it on the EC (or at least what you needed) , plus the "where do the Reapers come from?" wasn't really the reason why people were upset about the ending right? because if that was man... I kinda want some thing to be left unanswered, what more detail do you need to know before said plot point becomes minutia? The first race became the form of the Reapers they created an AI to find a solution for the problem said AI did it but it was kinda messed up, that's pretty much all you need to know sadly much of that stuff wasn't included on the game. The EC definitely gave the context it needed at least to me I didn't hate the ending I got.

@MEATBALL said:

Ancient all-powerful race of Psychic Squids creates Artificial Intelligence to find a way to stop Artificial Intelligence wiping out organic life. This created Artificial Intelligence decides to wipe out all organic life. In Defense of the Squids, they were so used to being in complete control of any of their thralls that they couldn't even consider that maybe creating an Artificial Intelligence would end badly for them as well.

To sum it up: Hubris.

That's some really cool stuff. Don't think it's really essential to the game, but probably would have made me like the main game more if it had been in there.

well shit.... i skipped out on this DLC thinking it was some short 1 hour dlc not worth the price.... but it seems that it's important as hell from a lore perspective.

I can't believe the number of people who are coming into this topic not knowing what the Leviathan DLC was. We talked the thing to death when it had just come out so I'm kinda surprised that people actively avoided that conversation here, but found their way to this topic now.

For you guys that just found out its true significance I have a question: Did you actively avoid knowing about the DLC or did you just not know about it till now?

This should have been in the original game. Fucking morons at Bioware. They're sabotaging their games.

I feel like this DLC was made because of what they had for the ending in ME3, and that it was not predetermined from the start. Basically, I think that they didn't have an explanation for all of this when they wrote the story, and that what's in the DLC is written after the fact.

@golguin said:

For you guys that just found out its true significance I have a question: Did you actively avoid knowing about the DLC or did you just not know about it till now?

I didn't actively avoid it. I just didn't care enough about anything related to Mass Effect (after finishing 3) that I didn't bother clicking on anything with 'Mass Effect' in the title. I knew DLC came out, but had no idea what it was about. I wasn't someone who railed against 3 after the ending either. It just made me stop caring about the series.

I found my way to this topic because Brad and Vinny have been talking up Leviathan to such a degree that it became a curiosity.

I can't believe the number of people who are coming into this topic not knowing what the Leviathan DLC was. We talked the thing to death when it had just come out so I'm kinda surprised that people actively avoided that conversation here, but found their way to this topic now.

For you guys that just found out its true significance I have a question: Did you actively avoid knowing about the DLC or did you just not know about it till now?

Maybe I totally missed the logic here but

Why was The Catalyst's solution to the task preserve all life to have the reapers wipe a good chunk of it out every cycle?

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I was never that taken aback by the revelations that the Intelligence dumped on me. It was created to prevent a synthetic life form from wiling out organic life, it made a fatal flaw of logic (all good villains do, especially robots) and interpreted its orders in a horrifying way. All that kind of lines up with what I expected about the Reapers origins. Someone built Skynet, except this Skynet has some kind of moral compunction against killing _all_ organic life. It only kills spacefaring organic life, thus keeping the galaxy in technological stasis. Thus the title of the series is INCREDIBLY APT; it's called 'Mass Effect' because that's the technological age the entire galaxy has been frozen at for millions of years.

@golguin: I lost interest in reading about the game in any form after finishing it and the ending was discussed at length.

I'm very surprised after reading that wiki article though. It automatically makes the Starchild 200% more interesting and makes those last few events with him actually make sense. I'm not someone who believes all DLC "should be in the main game!" but this is an example of when it absolutely should be, considering how detrimental it was to the story by missing it out. This is on the same level as cutting out Nero's backstory in the 2009 Star Trek movie.

I honestly don't think I would have been quite so offended by the original ending if there had been an explanation like this, instead of it all coming from no where.

@Marz said:

well shit.... i skipped out on this DLC thinking it was some short 1 hour dlc not worth the price.... but it seems that it's important as hell from a lore perspective.

Seriously, the moment where you meet the Leviathan is one of the coolest parts in the entire game, even for people who've finished I'd recommend they at least check it out. I'm so glad I waited to play this till now. Leaving this out of the game was a big misstep.