Extended Cut Provided Answers But People Will Still Hate It

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#1 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

*SOME SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU NEVER BEAT THE GAME... IF NOT, THEN WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE*

Ah well, I just think it's funny that the extended endings are nothing more than what other forum goers here or I have already mentioned. Everything that we were left to come up with on our own was practically what was explained in the DLC. The ONLY real plot hole, which was Joker running away, was even explained. For anyone who hasn't seen or played it yet, I provided a video below. I just find it sad that there are still people crying foul, despite their only gripes being plotholes (that are again explained in the DLC).

#2 Edited by Tru3_Blu3 (3182 posts) -

I thought the endings were very satisfying. Whoever hates these the endings should just shut up. Period.

#3 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

@Tru3_Blu3: I concur... lol

#4 Posted by Irvandus (2777 posts) -

I feel like a lot of people also missed that a lot of dialogue was added to the catalyst. Feel I should throw this out here on this because it's some interesting stuff that wasn't in there before. Better explanation of why the Catalyst does what he does.

#5 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@Tru3_Blu3 said:

I thought the endings were very satisfying. Whoever hates these the endings should just shut up. Period.

No, the endings are still flawed, but the primary culprit behind those flaws is the set-piece of the Crucible itself and the Catalyst. The deus ex machina at the core of ME3's endings isn't something that could be avoided without a wholesale replacement of the ending sequence. In my mind, the best addition made was the Reject ending. It's not ideal and could have used some more fleshing out, but being able to reject the Catalyst's plan rather than submit to one of three colored choices is a substantial improvement.

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#6 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

#7 Posted by Irvandus (2777 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

I think he's just happy that their is a far more radical difference between it and the other endings. Or he means best addition as in, one he found most satisfying, not best addition as in, the best decision. Dear god I'm talking about the Mass Effect 3 endings again. Oh well I'll accept it because of the DLC but this is against my mantra.

#8 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

It doesn't matter. Hell, I'd even say it's great that there's a "Reapers Win" scenario. That the choice results in losing to the Reapers doesn't invalidate it as a worthwhile inclusion. It's an ending in which Shepard tells the Catalyst to suck it, and then puts his faith, however misguided it might be, in the galactic force he had spent the entire game organizing for this battle.

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#9 Posted by overjoyedpants (75 posts) -

i, for one, am still unhappy with the ending of the game. i have not played this dlc, nor do i plan to. i experienced the ending already, you dont get 2 cracks at it (especially months later). i still like bioware, and appreciate mass effect as a whole, but i thought the ending was terrible. that being said, the hate bioware and mass effect 3 were, and are, unjustified.

#10 Edited by Encephalon (1238 posts) -

Of course people will still hate it. It was a while ago, but remember that there were plenty of people who hated the endings conceptually, not just in their poor execution but the very essence of what the writers were trying to convey. Since the ending does not fundamentally change that, those people will probably never be fully content with the Extended Cut.

#11 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

It doesn't matter. Hell, I'd even say it's great that there's a "Reapers Win" scenario. That the choice results in losing to the Reapers doesn't invalidate it as a worthwhile inclusion. It's an ending in which Shepard tells the Catalyst to suck it, and then puts his faith, however misguided it might be, in the galactic force he had spent the entire game organizing for this battle.

Yet all have overlooked the fact that in this ending at the stargazer scene ther is a human boy and an Asari in it , which obviously weren´t killed by the reapers , so in my mind the cycle won in surviving the reaper onslaught , to have another go at it , but still , that seems like a victory to me (alabit a small one with a huge cost , but it is awesome).

#12 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@Aetheldod said:

@Hailinel said:

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

It doesn't matter. Hell, I'd even say it's great that there's a "Reapers Win" scenario. That the choice results in losing to the Reapers doesn't invalidate it as a worthwhile inclusion. It's an ending in which Shepard tells the Catalyst to suck it, and then puts his faith, however misguided it might be, in the galactic force he had spent the entire game organizing for this battle.

Yet all have overlooked the fact that in this ending at the stargazer scene ther is a human boy and an Asari in it , which obviously weren´t killed by the reapers , so in my mind the cycle won in surviving the reaper onslaught , to have another go at it , but still , that seems like a victory to me (alabit a small one with a huge cost , but it is awesome).

...Whoa, rewind, what are you basing that off of? They're super tiny and in silhouetted on the screen. There's no reason to even assume the stargazers were human to begin with. Now that there's a female in Reject, so it's suddenly an asari? I just assumed the original guy they used was busy or died of old age.

#13 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@onan: Look closer ... she is an asari she has the tentacle head :D so you need pictographic proof? Give some time to get it duder

#14 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@Aetheldod said:

@Hailinel said:

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Except the Reapers win because you STILL have nothing to stop such a previously established, nearly unstoppable force, which results in the cycle just continuing on again.

It doesn't matter. Hell, I'd even say it's great that there's a "Reapers Win" scenario. That the choice results in losing to the Reapers doesn't invalidate it as a worthwhile inclusion. It's an ending in which Shepard tells the Catalyst to suck it, and then puts his faith, however misguided it might be, in the galactic force he had spent the entire game organizing for this battle.

Yet all have overlooked the fact that in this ending at the stargazer scene ther is a human boy and an Asari in it , which obviously weren´t killed by the reapers , so in my mind the cycle won in surviving the reaper onslaught , to have another go at it , but still , that seems like a victory to me (alabit a small one with a huge cost , but it is awesome).

They're silhouettes. They could literally be anything. Well, anything besides any of the races involved in Shepard's cycle.

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#15 Edited by onan (1283 posts) -

@Aetheldod: @Hailinel: Yeah, Hailinel is right. Asari and Turians both have head fringes, and that's just in this cycle. It also would contradict what she says in the ending about Shepard in the previous cycle ensuring that next cycle's survival. You can't ignore what she's saying because of what she sorta kinda might look like if you squint a little.

#16 Posted by Doctorchimp (4067 posts) -

I think people who come to the defense of Bioware and go "aww shucks what are you gonna do?" is more troubling.

It's a shitty ending, we should just accept it and move on.

#17 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

My god... This only goes to further prove my point. I guess the old saying about not being able to please everyone, no matter what you do, still stands.

#18 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

My god... This only goes to further prove my point. I guess the old saying about not being able to please everyone, no matter what you do, still stands.

Bioware was never under the delusion that the Extended Cut would silence all criticism.

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#19 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

@Hailinel: Silence? No. They did, however, believe/hope that this new DLC would answer all of the "closure" concerns that many players were very vocal about. Most even stated that this was the major reason why they disliked the game as a whole.

#20 Posted by jorbear (2517 posts) -

It cleared up some of the epilogue stuff and gave some context into the universe after the events of ME3, but the endings still are not fantastic endings. However, if these were the endings included in the base version of the game, I guarantee you this whole DLC debacle would not exist,

#21 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

@Hailinel: Silence? No. They did, however, believe/hope that this new DLC would answer all of the "closure" concerns that many players were very vocal about. Most even stated that this was the major reason why they disliked the game as a whole.

And yet, it's not the sole complaint people had with the ending.

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#22 Posted by DragonNinja789 (335 posts) -

Haters gunna hate.

#23 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

I loved the original ending, and I love this even more. However it basically just verbalized what I had assumed to be the ending in the first place. No more guessing why your crew were on the ship, just that they were.

#24 Edited by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@onan: All she say is "those that came before us" not specifiqly a past cycle , so we can surely assume they are talking about forefathers , also look at the silluate , is not turian by any means (or have we ever seen a female Turian?) the body structure does not resemble a turian anyway.

Edit: Altho is not a very good screen shot :/

Edit 2: Well there we go ... I have no doubts that she is an asari

#25 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@Aetheldod: "Those that came before us" refers to those of the previous cycle. These people, whatever races they happen to be, are from the following cycle. It's as simple as that. You're reading far, far too much into the silhouettes.

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#26 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@Aetheldod: At any point while hunting down that screenshot, busting open photoshop, and blowing up a section of the image by 400%, did you think, "Hm, my case isn't nearly as strong as I thought it was"? Just wondering. I appreciate the effort, though.

#27 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@Hailinel: Not forcibly .... the could have easily said last cycle but they never did so it leaves quite open to the interpretation Im giving

@onan: Nope ... because I dont see it as an invalid one or what then all the stargazer sequences are of past cycles too? No...Why not this one too ? Also then why hasnt anyone said that that sequence arent decendants of humans , may not be liked a lot , but no one has questioned it before , then why when I provide a positive outlook of the refuse ending it all of a sudden not true? (it is open for interpretation , yes , but I see no evidence that denies what I say)

#28 Posted by theveej (811 posts) -

The new endings should have been in the game from beginning. They are still not great but people wouldn't have bitched like they did if these were the ending. the 4th choice is pretty awesome, probably should have been more fleshed out than it was.

@Aetheldod: I chose to believe your version, because it makes that ending way more awesome

#29 Edited by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@Aetheldod said:

@Hailinel: Not forcibly .... the could have easily said last cycle but they never did so it leaves quite open to the interpretation Im giving

Uh, no it doesn't. It's quite clear that the battle with the Reapers was lost. The people of the next cycle found Liara's records of the war and used that knowledge to avoid their own destruction. You're reading into things like you're hunting for the next Indoctrination Theory and presenting evidence that does not prove your point in any way.

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#30 Edited by onan (1283 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Aetheldod said:

@Hailinel: Not forcibly .... the could have easily said last cycle but they never did so it leaves quite open to the interpretation Im giving

Uh, no it doesn't. It's quite clear that the battle with the Reapers was lost. The people of the next cycle found Liara's records of the war and used that knowledge to avoid their own destruction. You're reading into things like you're hunting for the next Indoctrination Theory and presenting evidence that does not prove your point in any way.

Agreed, that stargazer bit happens after Liara's beacon is activated, presumably 40,000-50,000 years into the next cycle. Also, they use different people for it, and the content is completely different. Same planet, new cycle. It's very cut and dry.

Edit: After committing all of their resources into the final push against the Reapers and the fall of Thessia, what makes you think this cycle would be able to pull a win out and come back from that? With what?

#31 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@Hailinel: Well you dont belive it then ... im not forcing you but I choose to beleive so , and makes sense ... just you know I always said that the catalyst was a sort of AI created by the people that made the reapers , and the EC proved that so who is to say that Im wrong about this? ;)

Im not saying I know it all and stuff but the content provides enough info to go with this. But Im sensing that we will be at this al nite so lets agree to disagree , as cliche as that sounds , and dont want to get sour with you :D

#32 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@onan: Well the last cycle (prothean one) did have humans turian asaris etc , so in the fiction they could still be there , also a Prothean survived , and since Liara had access to that tech from Javick who is to say they didnt try something similar to the protheans? Also were the recording is looks like a bunker which hasnt been destroyed when the record plays , so again nothing that outright refutes what im saying. So if you want to still be all doom and gloom be my guests duder but I havent stepped out of the ideas established in the Mass Effect universe.

#33 Posted by ajamafalous (11823 posts) -
@SketchPanic said:

Most even stated that this was the major reason why they disliked the game as a whole.

Nice weasel words there bro
#34 Posted by Hailinel (23700 posts) -

@Aetheldod said:

@Hailinel: Well you dont belive it then ... im not forcing you but I choose to beleive so , and makes sense ... just you know I always said that the catalyst was a sort of AI created by the people that made the reapers , and the EC proved that so who is to say that Im wrong about this? ;)

Im not saying I know it all and stuff but the content provides enough info to go with this. But Im sensing that we will be at this al nite so lets agree to disagree , as cliche as that sounds , and dont want to get sour with you :D

I don't want this to drag on, either, but I'll state once more that you're reading things incorrectly. The content does not make any of the allusions that you're suggesting. The end result of the choice is cut and dried. You refuse to use the Crucible, and as a result, the war is lost. Game Over. Better luck next cycle. Also, humanity doesn't exist anymore, therefore Buzz Aldrin can't be around to tell stories of Shepard's exploits to children, so someone else had to be cast. That person is a woman of an unknown alien species from the distant future. Pointing to a silhouette and saying that it is, without a doubt, an Asari is just playing into the same ridiculous headgames that set the internet on fire with Indoctrination Theorists.

Now I'm done.

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#35 Posted by Jimbo (9769 posts) -

Out of curiosity, did they address/remove any of the stuff that made the indoctrination theory valid originally?

#36 Posted by onan (1283 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

Out of curiosity, did they address/remove any of the stuff that made the indoctrination theory valid originally?

Yeah, they killed it right after the bit with Marauder Shields. First they're like, "no one survived!" and then it cuts to Hackett getting a report that says "no wait, spoke too soon, someone totally got to the beam."

@Aetheldod said:

@onan: Well the last cycle (prothean one) did have humans turian asaris etc , so in the fiction they could still be there , also a Prothean survived , and since Liara had access to that tech from Javick who is to say they didnt try something similar to the protheans? Also were the recording is looks like a bunker which hasnt been destroyed when the record plays , so again nothing that outright refutes what im saying. So if you want to still be all doom and gloom be my guests duder but I havent stepped out of the ideas established in the Mass Effect universe.

So does this mythical Asari held in suspended animation have a name in this yarn you're spinning? It certainly doesn't sound or look anything like Liara. She's a bit on the chunky side. In any case, nice to know that 50,000 years later, she got a nice gig babysitting.

No one's being doom and gloom. They seem pretty happy in that new cycle, so good for them.

#37 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Tru3_Blu3 said:

I thought the endings were very satisfying. Whoever hates these the endings should just shut up. Period.

Why don't you shut up instead of assuming all the people not pleased with them are actively whining on the forums about it. I'm not.

#38 Edited by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

They mostl of the major plotholes and wrong things with surprisingly few blemishes (I was expecting the explanations to be worse than the "what the fuck is happening?" effect.) There's still some - for one, I thought they ruined the best part of the original ending, which was the run to the beam. It was fast and intense before. Now when you get to the end of the beam, a cutscene starts that acts as if you're far away. It's kind of a lame way to introduce the scene to show why your crewmates left, and there's the obvious "hi im harbinger ill just sit here and not shoot that critical spaceship standing still right in front of me", but over all a lot of my issues were fixed and better than I was expecting (to be fair, I was expecting very little).

The choices are fleshed out more and actually feel like ok ones, and they make sense. It's more clear what's going on. The reject scene was a funny "FU" to the fans who requested that, I can see people getting upset about that, but whatever. It could have actually been decent if they put work into it instead of a snide statement, but whatever.

Destroy and Control are decent choices now. Synth is still pure nonsense.

The fact that this ending was released so quickly with so much content that takes a long time to develope basically proves the game was rushed out the window and unfinished. This should have been the original ending, and the outcry wouldn't have happened - don't make that mistake again bioware.

Overall, it fixes my huge problems with it. I still don't think it's that good, but it's now "yeah ok fine whatever" instead of nonsensical dogshit.

#39 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

My god... This only goes to further prove my point. I guess the old saying about not being able to please everyone, no matter what you do, still stands.

The plot holes were never the main issue. The fact people find the rejection ending the most satisfying, despite it essentially having the worst outcome, speaks volumes.

It at least has an outcome that makes sense and feels like a proper resolution to the story.

#40 Edited by smcn (861 posts) -

I was content with the game the first time around. My favorite part of EC was the squad getting evaced before Shepard gets knocked out. I could have done without the extra exposition dialogue with the Catalyst, but whatever it's optional. I kind of don't like that he explicitly spelled out that the survivors will be able to rebuild the relays as I was hoping it would be a plot point in ME4. Synthesis is still kind of dumb, but I thought the consoling hug EDI gave Liara at the end was touching at least.

Final verdict as someone who enjoyed the original: indifferent. I wasn't really looking for anything "more" from the ending. I just want there to be a Mass Effect 4.

EDIT: Updated final verdict after loading my pre-choice autosave and picking Control (my original pick as Paragon!Shep): FUCKING AWESOME THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I IMAGINED WHEN I PICKED IT PRE-EC.

I also realized the biggest problem I have with the Synthesis ending is just the green skin/glowing eyes. If they choose to make that the canon ending leading into ME4 I'd be fine with it as long as they ditch that effect.

#41 Posted by Marokai (2792 posts) -

I get the feeling there are some people that really want others to be angry about the endings just so they have people to beat up on and feel better about themselves with. The endings are still flawed, and in March I was right out there preaching about how the endings were as bad as genocide and journalists were abdicating their consumer responsibilities, etc, but the updated endings are better, and are about as good as I could hope for, and I'm comfortable moving on from here. And like Hailinel, I think it's great that there's a Reapers Win scenario. 

#42 Edited by Tru3_Blu3 (3182 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@Tru3_Blu3 said:

I thought the endings were very satisfying. Whoever hates these the endings should just shut up. Period.

Why don't you shut up instead of assuming all the people not pleased with them are actively whining on the forums about it. I'm not.

The reason why I want people to shut up about it is because I simply feel bad for Bioware. Those dudes worked their asses off with motion capture, programming, and directory with the voice actors that they paid a fortune for. They put a lot of money and sweat into a much improved ending that is FREE OF CHARGE. Now, if it was 500 MS points then yeah, I might get a bit of the fits, but I accept Bioware's efforts and passion to do something like this, even if they became Corporate whores.

#43 Posted by Undeadpool (4903 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind said:

@SketchPanic said:

My god... This only goes to further prove my point. I guess the old saying about not being able to please everyone, no matter what you do, still stands.

The plot holes were never the main issue. The fact people find the rejection ending the most satisfying, despite it essentially having the worst outcome, speaks volumes.

It at least has an outcome that makes sense and feels like a proper resolution to the story.

Kinda making a gross over-generalization there, ain'tcha? I for one found the Synthesis ending to be the most satisfying, particularly from a hard sci-fi perspective.

#44 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@SketchPanic said:

@Tru3_Blu3: I concur... lol

I know, I'm sorry, had to.

Anyway, haven't played ME3, and BioWare is...less than good these days, in my opinion. But if I were to play the game, and get the DLCs, even if I didn't like the new endings, even if they were worse than the previous ones, I'd still keep my fucking mouth shut. BioWare didn't have to do shit, they could have just left it the way it was, grin to the fan's face and light up a Cuban (cigar) with a Benjamin, but they didn't, they responded to the criticism and the fans, and they offered more. If nothing else I respect that at least.

#45 Posted by TheHumanDove (2505 posts) -

Ending still sucks. It's like a bowl of dicks became a treasure chest of dicks, ya feel me?

#46 Posted by Turambar (6641 posts) -
@Tru3_Blu3 said:

@Sooty said:

@Tru3_Blu3 said:

I thought the endings were very satisfying. Whoever hates these the endings should just shut up. Period.

Why don't you shut up instead of assuming all the people not pleased with them are actively whining on the forums about it. I'm not.

The reason why I want people to shut up about it is because I simply feel bad for Bioware. Those dudes worked their asses off with motion capture, programming, and directory with the voice actors that they paid a fortune for. They put a lot of money and sweat into a much improved ending that is FREE OF CHARGE. Now, if it was 500 MS points then yeah, I might get a bit of the fits, but I accept Bioware's efforts and passion to do something like this, even if they became Corporate whores.

I don't feel the need to feel sorry for the makers of a product that does not satisfy as long as no one is firebombing their office.
#47 Edited by Turambar (6641 posts) -
@Jimbo said:

Out of curiosity, did they address/remove any of the stuff that made the indoctrination theory valid originally?

The Control ending was shown to be a good ending where Shepard turns the reapers into benevolent beings so yep, that theory was killed off asap.
#48 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -

They should have just changed it to Shepard defying the catalyst, saving the universe, then sitting under a rainbow with the players love interest eating the players favourite snack as chosen at the start.

As he reaches his/her arm around the sex tot they proclaim "We saved the universe, but what now?" To which shepard replies "The future is ours, and forever what we make it"

Then the camera pans up as it fads with emotionally enlightening music into a bright pink "The End" with a "?" appearing right before it cuts to the title asking if you would like to search for DLC.

Just to shut everyone the fuck up.

#49 Posted by CaptainCharisma (339 posts) -

As someone who absolutely hated the ending, the Extended Cut provided some explanation and closure which made me enjoy it in the end. The ending was still bad but no ending will ever please anyone. So I don't see why people are complaining that something isn't universally liked, considering that nothing in the world is universally liked.

#50 Posted by Marokai (2792 posts) -
@CaptainCharisma said:

As someone who absolutely hated the ending, the Extended Cut provided some explanation and closure which made me enjoy it in the end. The ending was still bad but no ending will ever please anyone. So I don't see why people are complaining that something isn't universally liked, considering that nothing in the world is universally liked.

No! You're not doing it right! You have to hate it even more now because all of the people who criticize the ending are entitled asshole whiners who can never be pleased. Don't you know the part you're supposed to be playing?

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