Recently I was reading a GameInformer magazine that was about Halo 4 mostly, but I found this in one of the sections about BioWare.

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

Honestly, I think this is the worst statement ever. We are trying to give you a chance. We are judging your games on what they are. We are judging a DLC on what it is. We aren't thinking we're producers. We're trying to tell you that you screwed up big-time on the ending of Mass Effect 3 and have the most overpriced DLC I have ever seen. Over $10 bucks for one extra squad member?! Seriously though, I was amazing at this and laughed so hard.

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!

Pleas carefully enter the bioware hate train and keep your hands and legs inside at all times

Also statement seems fine to me

I'm not trying to hate on anybody. It's just that I hate the statement that BioWare is trying to make. It's so damn obvious that BioWare is not paying attention for what we're asking for.

I'm not going to defend Bioware, because I'm in the "Mass Effect 3 could have been much much much much much very much infinitely better" camp, and I think that a lot of the statements that they've made to defend themselves make them sound like the incompetent kid complaining that he didn't get picked for the basketball team, but their fucking fans are becoming the real villainous dolts here. Not dickheads (though this term still applies), dolts; stupidity boiled down to its simplest, stupidest, most thick-headed and inept form. Dolts.

sounds reasonable to me

i'm taking a guess that the emphasis was yours

I agree with her, people have their panties in a bunch for no good reason.

Halo 2 had a bad ending, did people bitch this much? Nope.

I seems like every stupid fucker with access to the internet thinks that they could make great games, that it is easy, they talk a bunch of shit but you know what? They don't make games!

Christina Norman doesn't even work for BioWare anymore so don't proclaim that statement is BioWare's cause its not.

@believer258 said:

I'm not going to defend Bioware, because I'm in the "Mass Effect 3 could have been much much much much much very much infinitely better" camp, and I think that a lot of the statements that they've made to defend themselves make them sound like the incompetent kid complaining that he didn't get picked for the basketball team, but their fucking fans are becoming the real villainous dolts here. Not dickheads (though this term still applies), dolts; stupidity boiled down to its simplest, stupidest, most thick-headed and inept form. Dolts.

Yeah... it all quickly spiralled out of control and now people who have anything negative to say about ME3's ending are twats, because of the huge misconception spawned from the actual twats who took the criticism too far--the death threats, suing BioWare ect. We barely have a voice anymore, or at least no one wants to listen, because we've all been jumbled into the same crowd with the psychopaths. You really can't read any sort of professional article without the writer defending BioWare because of the over-powering hate they're receiving, which then gets in the way of actually taking into account why a lot of people, ignoring the psychos, think ME3 had a poor ending.

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

[edit] Wait, she doesn't even work for BioWare anymore? Wher the hell does she get off using words like "we" and "our content"? Her statement was very poorly worded, but I'm glad to hear that it did not come from a [current] BioWare employee.

[Original post]

FUCK YOU. Seriously, where did all the polite humility go with that statement? Your chance was ME3, and you blew it. I gave you your chance when I spent 60 dollars on your product. I'm a consumer, and I can bitch about it all I want. You can either ignore me (which would be easier if their weren't hundreds of thousands of "me" at this point), or try to win back my approval as a customer. It's really that simple, and statements like this aren't helping.

@Sackmanjones said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

Bioware should be treating this situation firmly and with dignity, not just apologising and hand-wringing. It's a controversial quote, but justified.

I think it's the best statement ever.

So, this is from a former Bioware employee?

Why would anyone become hysterical over this?

If you don't put what she was even replying to, how can I understand what she is saying without it being out of context?

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

I'm not trying to hate on anybody. It's just that I hate the statement that BioWare is trying to make. It's so damn obvious that BioWare is not paying attention for what we're asking for.

No the statement is right. People need to stop complaining. The DLC was not essential to beating the game. It was cool, but wasn't needed. If you hated the ending more power to you. Stop asking them to change it. They did what they did. Changing things never works out well because everyone has different expectations. You're going to end up with Star Warsitis and then complain about them changing stuff. If you want to download the new revised ending, again more power to you. There is a line where the consumer has with regards to influencing studios, and gamers very often cross that line.

Judge our games for what they are but if your opinion is negative eat a bag of dicks you idiot what do you know.

Is she even talking about Bioware in that statement? I think it would be funnier and more offensive if she were talking about Riot.

I judged her @SpaceInsomniac said:

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

FUCK YOU.

Seriously, where did all the polite humility go with that statement? Your chance was ME3, and you blew it. I gave you your chance when I spent 60 dollars on your product. I'm a consumer, and I can bitch about it all I want. You can either ignore me (which would be easier if their weren't hundreds of thousands of "me" at this point), or try to win back my approval as a customer. It's really that simple, and statements like this aren't helping.

@Sackmanjones said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "stop telling us how to do our job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

Shes a former Bioware Designer for a reason.

@Polydeukes said:

So, this is from a former Bioware employee?

Why would anyone become hysterical over this?

Because Bioware is somewhere in the story.

Completely agree with this statement. The people that made such a huge god damn deal about the ending like it was the end of the world or something can go fuck themselves. As far as the dlc goes it was not essential to the game so the people that bitch about that can fuck themselves too.

@Dagbiker said:

Shes a former Bioware Designer for a reason.

I doubt that's the reason, and I've edited my post, but it's still a really stupid thing to say.

@artgarcrunkle said:

Judge our games for what they are but if your opinion is negative eat a bag of dicks you idiot what do you know.

I found this really hilarious.

As for Christina, I don't know. I see where's she coming from. Mass Effect 3 does a lot right and it's awesome in a lot of spots. It's just incredibly shitty in a couple of very key moment. I mean, it is what it is. I'm judging based on the game as presented.

@LiquidPrince said:

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

I'm not trying to hate on anybody. It's just that I hate the statement that BioWare is trying to make. It's so damn obvious that BioWare is not paying attention for what we're asking for.

No the statement is right. People need to stop complaining. The DLC was not essential to beating the game. It was cool, but wasn't needed. If you hated the ending more power to you. Stop asking them to change it. They did what they did. Changing things never works out well because everyone has different expectations. You're going to end up with Star Warsitis and then complain about them changing stuff. If you want to download the new revised ending, again more power to you. There is a line where the consumer has with regards to influencing studios, and gamers very often cross that line.

My problem with the DLC came from Casey Hudson on the Bombcast before ME3 hit. They talked about DLC and Hudson said that DLC was a chance to expand on the universe with stories that weren't directly related to the core of Mass Effect (which, if I'm not wrong, is Shepard, the Protheans and the Reapers). To have an actual Prothean team mate is a massive story beat, and watching Youtube videos of him, the colour he gives the fiction and the way he changes the player's views on Protheans as a species is amazing. I don't really care about the ending of that game, because 99% of ME3 was absolute fan wankery in the best way possible. Jumping around the galaxy and solving millennia-old galactic disputes was amazing, but I do feel cheated that I didn't get to do it with Javik, and I'm not happy that he was DLC. The Protheans are a pillar of the universe, and it's really shitty to gate access to answers of that caliber with a DLC pack.

As a whole, though, I agree with you. There's no point in getting fired up and making a big scene about the ending of the game, or the DLC, or whatever else wasn't literally the best thing ever. I enjoyed it, but I'm not going to let $10 DLC and five minutes of weirdness ruin that for me.

Also, I just realized this is probably referencing either some Mass Effect 2 DLC, or the From Ashes stuff for ME3.

I heard the ending to Mass Effect 3 was bad.

People have lost all sense of perspective.

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

While I understand where she's coming from it's very hard for me personally to trust Bioware since just about every title since Dragon Age has been okay for me. Not great or terrible but okay. Still, some bad decisions coupled with expensive DLC and ridiculous pre-order bonuses has really soured me with them. I'm not fond of them so the best I can do is not buy their next title unless they pull their heads out of their arses.

I feel like anybody who gets all high and mighty about the choices or lack of reflection of what 'their' Shepard would or wouldnt be doing should be made to play the first two games while I point out all the times they had no say in what was happening, this whole thing has snowballed to the point people have these weird expectations and memories of what you can and cannot do with a game, and especially these games.

Remember how you chose to save or sacrifice the council in the first game? Meant almost nothing outside of cosmetic changes between 1 and 2.

@Sackmanjones said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

Have you worked on a game or book or movie? The people at Bioware (or former in this case) had a story in mind when they made Mass Effect. Your basically saying these entertainment companies should say "HEY! what do you want in the sequel to our film?You wanna change it from a horror movie to a romantic comedy, OK because you asked!" They built the story THEY wanted and thats it. As far as gameplay mechanics they threw stuff in that people asked for. Which is why I'm glad they are holding their ground on the ending by expanding it rather than changing it.

Also they are actively taking in consumer suggestions and questions on their twitter feed So in some way they are listening to what we think.

But the idea was that it was going to be the story we wanted.

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

Recently I was reading a GameInformer magazine that was about Halo 4 mostly, but I found this in one of the sections about BioWare.

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

Honestly, I think this is the worst statement ever. We are trying to give you a chance. We are judging your games on what they are. We are judging a DLC on what it is. We aren't thinking we're producers. We're trying to tell you that you screwed up big-time on the ending of Mass Effect 3 and have the most overpriced DLC I have ever seen. Over $10 bucks for one extra squad member?! Seriously though, I was amazing at this and laughed so hard.

There was a charity drive, a law suit, and cupcakes. Some of the people angry at this do indeed think they are producers.

@The_Nubster: Having Javik as DLC was especially strange considering how few squad members you had to choose from. As for the ending "controversy," it's a shame we can't have an intelligent discussion about it w/o someone popping and saying "here we go again," "shut up already" or some smart ass thing to prove they're above the fray. OP brought a new point to the table w/ the former Bioware woman's quote, and he immediately gets shot down. I have as much contempt as some of you guys for the assholes sending death threats, suing BW, etc, but jumping on a post just to rip the OP is pointless. (Not directing this comment toward you Nubster, btw)

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

[edit] Wait, she doesn't even work for BioWare anymore? Wher the hell does she get off using words like "we" and "our content"? Her statement was very poorly worded, but I'm glad to hear that it did not come from a [current] BioWare employee.

[Original post]

FUCK YOU. Seriously, where did all the polite humility go with that statement? Your chance was ME3, and you blew it. I gave you your chance when I spent 60 dollars on your product. I'm a consumer, and I can bitch about it all I want. You can either ignore me (which would be easier if their weren't hundreds of thousands of "me" at this point), or try to win back my approval as a customer. It's really that simple, and statements like this aren't helping.

@Sackmanjones said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

There's no context to this. What issue was it? When did the interview take place? What was this quote in reference to?

All important things, and likely not anything current Bioware would say, given the way basically admitted guilt for making poor products at the PAX panels (Both Dragon Age 2 and ME3) and begged for second chances.

Bioware has gotten arrogant as fuck, and they're going to fall hard

@TheHumanDove said:

Bioware has gotten arrogant as fuck, and they're going to fall hard

This can also be said of all the people demanding things be changed and those signing petitions.

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

Recently I was reading a GameInformer magazine.

Here's the problem.

Also their Mass Effect 3 review was a sales pitch. Not a review.

@Sackmanjones said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

Have you worked on a game or book or movie? The people at Bioware (or former in this case) had a story in mind when they made Mass Effect. Your basically saying these entertainment companies should say "HEY! what do you want in the sequel to our film?You wanna change it from a horror movie to a romantic comedy, OK because you asked!" They built the story THEY wanted and thats it. As far as gameplay mechanics they threw stuff in that people asked for. Which is why I'm glad they are holding their ground on the ending by expanding it rather than changing it.

I'm basically saying nothing even close to that. Each and every current and former BioWare employee can can take whatever personal stance they like concerning this issue. I don't care if She thinks the ending should be changed, or if she's completely opposed to changing a single word. That's not at all the point. My point is that there is a right way and a wrong way to say everything, and this was the wrong way. Just like going to the official ME3 forums and saying, "fuck you BioWare, you owe me an ending that isn't shit!" is also the wrong way.

The vast majority of people unhappy with the ending have made no demand of any sort. They simply have expressed disappointment with the ending. Some of them have expressed interest in seeing BioWare make optional DLC to clarify or otherwise adjust the original ending. These people do not appreciate being colored as "backseat producers," nor do they deserve to be referred to as such.

Lastly, ANYTHING that they add to the ending will literally be changing the ending. That's how change works. It might not be completely rewriting the ending, but it's certainly change. To say "we're not changing anything, we're just adding to our original vision" just strikes me as a silly sounding attempt to save face.

The problem with her statement is that it's doesn't acknowledge, in any way what the overwhelming majority of the complaints have been about.

@big_jon said:

I agree with her, people have their panties in a bunch for no good reason.

Halo 2 had a bad ending, did people bitch this much? Nope.

I seems like every stupid fucker with access to the internet thinks that they could make great games, that it is easy, they talk a bunch of shit but you know what? They don't make games!

Halo 2 had a cliffhanger ending, not a bad mash-up of several unfinished endings. There is a major difference, and people at the time were extremely pissed about it.

@LiquidPrince said:

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

I'm not trying to hate on anybody. It's just that I hate the statement that BioWare is trying to make. It's so damn obvious that BioWare is not paying attention for what we're asking for.

No the statement is right. People need to stop complaining. The DLC was not essential to beating the game. It was cool, but wasn't needed. If you hated the ending more power to you. Stop asking them to change it. They did what they did. Changing things never works out well because everyone has different expectations. You're going to end up with Star Warsitis and then complain about them changing stuff. If you want to download the new revised ending, again more power to you. There is a line where the consumer has with regards to influencing studios, and gamers very often cross that line.

The DLC was part of the core game and removed to be DLC.

The problem with that is people without the DLC don't get what should've be a major part of the story.

The people that do have the DLC get a watered down version of the original ("artistic") vision because the overarching story had to be trimmed out so it could be easily plugged back in as DLC.

She's right, though. People that play games like to think they know more about games than the people that make games and that they should be the ones making games because they play the games and playing games gives them an insight into how games are made and therefore they are the ones that know how best to advance the industry of games rather than the people who have been making games for years because surely they have no idea about games or what it takes to make games or how to even play games because only people that take games very seriously know what people who play games want in games.

Ending was bad? DLC overpriced? You can could say the same for ME 2. What the hell did people expect? Did everyone wake up all of the sudden and realize how mediocre the series has gotten after the first? It's the same with Dragon Age. Why was ME 2 awarded for so many GOTY 2010 awards?

Why are we still talking about ME 3 anyway? It's been well over a month already. Move on Internet

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@stryker1121 Its not about being above it all though its honestly just gotten so damn tiresome to hear about issues people have with this game. I agree discussing valid points reasonably is great but this thread isn't one. I'm not trying to dump on the op but referencing a quote from someone who doesn't even work their anymore doesn't add anything. Its just another thread for people to dump on Bioware.

I hear ya. It didn't help that the ending was leaked weeks beforehand, meaning there were long-running threads on this very board (and everywhere else) about the ending before the game even came out. I avoided those threads, but I'm sure they got annoying fast. But saying something negative about the game doesn't make you a whiner, or a troll, or someone too thick to see BioWare's brilliance, and I've seen too much of that sentiment around here (and other forums) these days.

@deathstriker666 said:

Ending was bad? DLC overpriced? You can could say the same for ME 2. What the hell did people expect? Did everyone wake up all of the sudden and realize how mediocre the series has gotten after the first?

Day one ME2 DLC was free with a new copy of the game. Last boss of ME2 was stupid, and the primary story thread with the collectors was a bit week, but the vast majority of ME2 was great, and the ending itself did everything right that ME3 did wrong.

I just think at this point the less Bioware and their staff talks about it, the better for them. They're already releasing free DLC to hopefully appease their fans, they don't need to do in a pouty way, it doesn't come off very well at all. Guess she IS a former employee but still... let PR do their jobs, they're not saying much for a reason. Sometimes the best damage control is to just wait for the rage to die down instead of reminding people why they were angry in the first place.

I did judge the game. I judge it to be lacking compared to its predecessors. How about that?

I do think there is a point lost in the screaming: Most of Mass Effect 3 is great where I don't think people are disappointed in how the Quarian/Geth, Salarian/Krogan, Thesia or any number of major scenario/stories unfolded. It is just the ending. In fact it is almost incomprehensible how the ending came about after playing through the Quarian/Geth, Slarian/Krogan, Thesia or any number of other major story lines.

..

....

.......

...........

......................bioware

@DarknessDudeTOB said:

Recently I was reading a GameInformer magazine that was about Halo 4 mostly, but I found this in one of the sections about BioWare.

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games on what they are. Judge the DLC on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling when and where we should be building our content.

-Former BioWare designer, Christina Norman

Maybe if she wasn't so busy trying to be in Public Relations, she wouldn't be a former designer.

@Abyssfull said:

Yeah... it all quickly spiralled out of control and now people who have anything negative to say about ME3's ending are twats, because of the huge misconception spawned from the actual twats who took the criticism too far--the death threats, suing BioWare ect. We barely have a voice anymore, or at least no one wants to listen, because we've all been jumbled into the same crowd with the psychopaths. You really can't read any sort of professional article without the writer defending BioWare because of the over-powering hate they're receiving, which then gets in the way of actually taking into account why a lot of people, ignoring the psychos, think ME3 had a poor ending.

Pretty much this. Constructive criticism is all well and good, but if people are trying to sue bioware....just wow. Haven't been on the boards lately, but I'm guessing a lot of howling and drooling went on when BBB said they were liable for "false advertising"?

I wasn't a fan of the ending, and that lady is an idiot, but please don't group me with those people.

I have beaten Mass Effect 3 a total of 3 times and working on my 4th play through. I will also be purchasing all DLC that I can for the game just to piss people off.

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@deathstriker666 said:

Ending was bad? DLC overpriced? You can could say the same for ME 2. What the hell did people expect? Did everyone wake up all of the sudden and realize how mediocre the series has gotten after the first?

Day one ME2 DLC was free with a new copy of the game. Last boss of ME2 was stupid, and the primary story thread with the collectors was a bit week, but the vast majority of ME2 was great, and the ending itself did everything right that ME3 did wrong.

Plus Suicide Mission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Retake Earth mission. Besides when you're charging towards Harbinger, which was incredibly exhilarating, the mission felt flat and didn't come close to matching the scale of what was actually happening. Y'know, the largest battle in the history of ever.

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@Sackmanjones said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

Also statement seems fine to me

Well, it's not fine. I work in retail, and "don't tell me how to do my job" is never a "fine" to say to an upset customer.

Have you worked on a game or book or movie? The people at Bioware (or former in this case) had a story in mind when they made Mass Effect. Your basically saying these entertainment companies should say "HEY! what do you want in the sequel to our film?You wanna change it from a horror movie to a romantic comedy, OK because you asked!" They built the story THEY wanted and thats it. As far as gameplay mechanics they threw stuff in that people asked for. Which is why I'm glad they are holding their ground on the ending by expanding it rather than changing it.

I'm basically saying nothing even close to that. Each and every current and former BioWare employee can can take whatever personal stance they like concerning this issue. I don't care if She thinks the ending should be changed, or if she's completely opposed to changing a single word. That's not at all the point. My point is that there is a right way and a wrong way to say everything, and this was the wrong way. Just like going to the official ME3 forums and saying, "fuck you BioWare, you owe me an ending that isn't shit!" is also the wrong way.

The vast majority of people unhappy with the ending have made no demand of any sort. They simply have expressed disappointment with the ending. Some of them have expressed interest in seeing BioWare make optional DLC to clarify or otherwise adjust the original ending. These people do not appreciate being colored as "backseat producers," nor do they deserve to be referred to as such.

Lastly, ANYTHING that they add to the ending will literally be changing the ending. That's how change works. It might not be completely rewriting the ending, but it's certainly change. To say "we're not changing anything, we're just adding to our original vision" just strikes me as a silly sounding attempt to save face.

Agreed with @SpaceInsomniac . @Sackmanjones , keep in mind that these companies have investors and are built to make a profit. Artistic vision really doesn't apply to the bottom line. The truth is that a vast majority of copies could have easily been returned for a full refund and most of us didn't do that, and instead we politely asked them to do something about it. They have every right to make the game they want to make, after all, but I also have every right to get a refund if I'm not satisfied with the product and not buy anything from them again. They need us much more than we need them.

There's a very good reason for taking the position of not soliciting fans for specific direction on where to take the game. If you give the fans exactly what they ask for, the best you can hope for is that they will be mollified. You're never going to achieve 'surprise', 'shock', 'suspense'. And yet, if they feel that their input is being respected, they can feel disappointment that their 'great idea' doesn't end up in the final product. Shoot them down early, make sure they're clear that they're getting what you think is best, not what they think is best. I've seen authors do this too. "Please do not suggest plot developments, I will not use them".

This is all supposing that the 'fans' have any uniform opinion. Most people aren't crazy about the ending, but some want it completely redone to be a happy ending that addresses their earlier choices, some want them to reframe it based on the 'indoctrination theory', others just want them to make what they were trying to do coherent (which is what they chose to do, apparently), and some aren't willing to give the game a second chance no matter what they do.