I hate playing with Vanguards.

#1 Edited by mordukai (7157 posts) -

So against my better judgment I joined in on a friend's game and even though I hated the idea of MP in Mass EFfect I have to admit that it's starting to grow on me. Anyways, that's not that I want to talk about. I want to talk about how much I hate playing with Vanguards. I have yet to play with one that actually understands that it's a team based mode and everyone needs to work together. All they do is spam the Charge/Nova combo which on early waves just takes the fun out of the game but it does provide amusing moments on later waves when they try doing that combo on a Banshee.

They never work with the group and always end up getting their ass handed to them by a swarm of enemies. They almost never go to help with a hack node, and most of the times you see someone not at the extraction point at the end of round it's probably going to be a Vanguard.

My experience with vanguards so far:

  1. "Guys, I know we are a team but just stand back and let me do all the work"
  2. "Can someone come and revive me. I got swarmed by them on the other side of the map"
  3. "Seriously! Can someone please come and revive me. I know you are all at the Hack point but really need someone to come and revive me. Don't mind the swarm of enemies around me I'll take care of them once I'm up"
  4. "FUCK YOU guys *Uses Medi-Gel" You made me waste a medi "
  5. "I'm up, good. Now I'll show all you noobs how to play"
  6. "Damn I am down, revive?!"
  7. "Ok I'm dead now. I'll just watch the rest of the round"
  8. "ALL RIGHT! I'm up again now you'll see what I can do"
  9. "FUUUUCK. I AM DOWN AGAIN!"
  10. "Guys I am down PLEASE someone revive me"
  11. Rage Quit.

Look guys. It's not that I REALLY hate playing with Vanguards. With the right player Vanguards are a great assets to the team but for some reason most of them just want to go around and play on their own. I would appreciate them better if they work with the group.

#2 Edited by uniform (1836 posts) -

Looks like your issue is with bad players, not Vanguards. You're just noticing more poor play amongst them because Vanguard is popular.

#3 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

Flowchart Vanguard?

#4 Posted by myketuna (1725 posts) -

People put too much power in that rush combo. I've seen it first hand too. Even though I'm playing as a Krogan soldier, I still stick with the rest of the team. Makes sense. But I don't know. Vanguards are thugs I guess.

#5 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@uniform said:

Looks like your issue is with bad players, not Vanguards. You're just noticing more poor play amongst them because Vanguard is popular.

That''s what I thought at first until I started noticing the 99% of the times the bad players go as Vanguard so I am starting to think that the class itself encourages players to at that way.

#6 Posted by believer258 (11994 posts) -

Crazy enough, I'm a vanguard. Crazier, the last time I played ME3 multi, we had no mics, we all knew our roles, and without uttering a single word we made it all the way to the end and won.

I'm just saying, there are some competent vanguards out there, like me. Although I do admit that I did steal a few kills with that handy charge power. Still, I knew when and when not to use it and I stayed with the team for the most part.

Online
#7 Edited by Enigma777 (6078 posts) -

Well, I just think it's really fun teleporting around. Not my fault I get swarmed...

I did find that a Vanguard and an Infiltrator make a great team though. Vanguard rushes in and takes out 2-3 dudes, Infiltrator cloaks and revives him then provides long-range support, rinse and repeat.

#8 Posted by SuperWristBands (2266 posts) -

Most of the Vanguards I meet are a little too reckless and will die a few times at some point. I don't dislike them but I will not play a silver challenge with multiple Vanguards.
 
 
That said, I did play with an amazing Vanguard a few times who just RAVAGED the field. It was crazy trying to keep up with his points. I haven't played as one yet but I want to after seeing this person in action. Was using a pistol too so I assume that the cool downs on his skills were pretty much not there since he never seemed to not be charging.

#9 Posted by UlquioKani (1134 posts) -

There are good Vanguards out there. Me and My friends play Vanguards sometimes and we can do most of the maps without dying on Bronze. It does seem to encourage solo play though

#10 Posted by Vager (1654 posts) -

Vanguards are pretty over powered in bronze matches. Even in the later waves, they just need to be a bit more careful. Sometimes it's just not a good idea to Nova right after a charge as you loose most of your shield when you do. I have a level 19 vanguard. I've had matches end after the first round because the host quit when I killed everything before team even fired a shot. I've been kicked out after a match several times too. I try not to be too assholish about it, I go for objectives, rush to revive people and stay in the zones for the hack nodes, occasionally charging out for a needed shield boost or if there's a large group of enemies near by. I've also learned my lesson the first time I charged a mech/banshee (you get one-shoted with no option to revive).

The class is pretty buggy though. There's a frequent bug where you can't fire off your abilities for a 1-2 seconds, which is can spell out a death sentence depending on your luck. I've also charged through geometry and got stuck outside the map several times. Unless your nearly finished the match, you might as well quit if that happens. Enemies can still shoot at you but you get instantly revived when you die, so If your entire team dies and it's not a objective based round it becomes impossible to finish the match.

I would probably play a different class if I had a weapon I liked to use. I've just been unlocking characters and appearance options every time I buy the veteran pack. I'm only missing the Drell vanguard and Asari adept at this point.

#11 Edited by BelligerentEngine (348 posts) -

Coming from a level 20 Vanguard, the class is pretty much useless above Bronze as you simply die to quickly after charging in and unless you can find some rare weapons to such as the Geth ones you don't really contribute enough damage just by shooting. Regardless after wave 5 or so on silver and basically all of gold a vanguard is going to need to sit behind cover just like anyone else. At which point why are you playing vanguard. I wish instead of the shield dispersing aoe they had barrier then maybe they'd actually be able to fill some sort of damage soak role, instead of not really filling a role at all.

#12 Posted by Mnemoidian (955 posts) -

I started out playing Vanguard quite a lot - though I tend to go Drell or Asari instead - so no Nova. It's a difficult class to play just right, as you are as likely to end up isolated because you charged across the map as because your team suddenly stops supporting you and starts moving the other way instead.

Most of the time when I die as a Vanguard though, I know that I messed up, and feel really bad about it. That said... right now, I mostly just want to get my Vanguard to 20 so I can promote, then I'll focus on Adept for a while, which I've been having a lot more success with lately.

Then again, I pretty much exclusively play on silver at the moment (working my way up to gold slowly).

#13 Posted by uniform (1836 posts) -

I've never had a charge bug on me, but I'm sure it happens. Reminds me of the past problems of Warrior charge in WoW after playing the class for several years. Something about moving players really fast across the map causes issues.

#14 Posted by Marokai (3064 posts) -

There are two types of Vanguards; Bad Vanguards that die frequently and on isolated places of the map that they Biotic Charged halfway across the map to get to, and Good Vanguards that kick ass really quickly. People hate both of them. People either hate Vanguards because they are a liability that need constantly revived or because they're too good and deprive the other players of points. I actually feel really bad for them because they can be extremely useful to the group, at least on Bronze and Silver.
 
But honestly, I blame bad players for being bad and jerkasses for being jerks when it comes to really good Vanguards. It's a class of the game and we all have to deal with it. I'm trying to play as a Vanguard now, after playing for hours and hours as a Sentinel and then getting Engineer to level 20, and I really really like it, and I do try to play well. But if someone kicks me or bitches at me on the mic for playing as a Vanguard, that's on the people complaining, not me. 
 
I still prefer playing as an Engineer though.

#15 Posted by BelligerentEngine (348 posts) -

@Vager said:

The class is pretty buggy though. There's a frequent bug where you can't fire off your abilities for a 1-2 seconds,

I die from this probably every second match.

#16 Posted by Vorbis (2750 posts) -

Luckily I have a friend who is a very good Vanguard, he sticks with the group and only charges out when he knows he won't die on Gold, on Bronze everything just dies instantly. Sadly he's gone away for a week so our 4th slot is now for randoms.

I don't understand the mentality of some people on Silver or Gold, I've seen people on N7 lvl 1 and character lvl 1 join our game, now I get why they don't know what they are doing (why are they joining gold?), but the lvl 20's who join and proceed to run off like Rambo and die on the first wave... it just boggles the mind.

How do they even get to 20 if this is how they play? If you see 3 teammates bunkered in a building you don't run off and punch a banshee on the opposite side of the map. This isn't just limited to Vanguards, I've seen every class do it.

Having said that there has been a couple of randoms who know how to play very well and we managed to do Gold with them, unsurprisingly they have all been Germans.

#17 Posted by Boboblaw (315 posts) -

As someone who played Vanguard in ME2/3 I can understand why people play multiplayer like that. Charge-->Nova is just so effective in the Single player its no suprise that people who play vanguard in multiplayer play that way.
 
Obviously they shouldn't really be playing that way (I have been somewhat guilty of it when I first started playing the multiplayer) but hey eventually they will learn its not exactly the best way to play.

#18 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (1099 posts) -

@Enigma777 said:

Well, I just think it's really fun teleporting around. Not my fault I get swarmed...

I did find that a Vanguard and an Infiltrator make a great team though. Vanguard rushes in and takes out 2-3 dudes, Infiltrator cloaks and revives him then provides long-range support, rinse and repeat.

I play as an Infiltrator, and I can't stand Vanguards. The chaos they cause makes it nearly impossible to snipe; what I want is for the enemy units to be taking cover and moving in predictable patterns, not running in a thousand different directions because of the Vanguard in their midst. And while I do feel a certain responsibility to use my cloak ability to save downed teammates when I can, if someone runs into a crowd of a dozen guys and gets killed, he's just gonna have to wait until the next wave, because I'm not putting myself at risk to go save him. The Infiltrator is not a medic class to bail people out when they get in over their heads.

#19 Posted by faustyn (615 posts) -

@Mordukai said:

and most of the times you see someone not at the extraction point at the end of round it's probably going to be a Vanguard.

i play as a vanguard and i never go to the extraction point because there is no point in doing that. sitting in that zone and getting raped by enemies is a pretty stupid idea. i usually go to the opposite side of the map and in the last 30 second run back to the LZ. sitting in the zone for 2 minutes is pointless and people doing that are probably not vanguards ;d

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

#20 Posted by Marokai (3064 posts) -
@faustyn said:

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

And as frustrating as it might be for some people, it's also totally the crux of that class. A Vanguard that isn't using Biotic Charge frequently is basically just a weak version of the Adept. It's hard to begrudge a class for using the ability that really makes that class.
#21 Posted by Liquidus (946 posts) -

A good Vanguard can decimate the enemy without much trouble but a bad Vanguard is just a huge liability. It fits fits perfectly with the high risk/high reward style of the Vanguard in ME2/3.

#22 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@faustyn said:

@Mordukai said:

and most of the times you see someone not at the extraction point at the end of round it's probably going to be a Vanguard.

i play as a vanguard and i never go to the extraction point because there is no point in doing that. sitting in that zone and getting raped by enemies is a pretty stupid idea. i usually go to the opposite side of the map and in the last 30 second run back to the LZ. sitting in the zone for 2 minutes is pointless and people doing that are probably not vanguards ;d

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

My point exactly. It'll be fun to see once Bioware nerfs your OP class, and trust me they will, because then everyone will stop playing like jerks and either play as some other class or start playing like a proper Vanguard.

#23 Posted by BraveToaster (12589 posts) -

Yes, there are only a few people who know how to play Vanguard without dying. I'm not going to risk my ass (and Medi Gel) trying to save someone who runs into the fray and ends up surrounded.

#24 Posted by morrelloman (608 posts) -

On bronze/silver they are always going to get the most points. But in the later waves they always die first. It is the most fun class so let people have their fun. Other classes are def better for higher difficulties though and ppl will figure that out.

#25 Posted by brownsfantb (399 posts) -

I play as a Vanguard in the story mode, but not in multiplayer. For multiplayer I like the Infiltrator class because of its cloak ability.

Even when I use Vanguard, I rarely spam the Charge/Nova combo. I'd rather pick off most of the enemies with an assault rifle and teammate abilities and then charge in to finish the last few enemies. Less stupid deaths that way.

#26 Edited by faustyn (615 posts) -

@Mordukai said:

@faustyn said:

@Mordukai said:

and most of the times you see someone not at the extraction point at the end of round it's probably going to be a Vanguard.

i play as a vanguard and i never go to the extraction point because there is no point in doing that. sitting in that zone and getting raped by enemies is a pretty stupid idea. i usually go to the opposite side of the map and in the last 30 second run back to the LZ. sitting in the zone for 2 minutes is pointless and people doing that are probably not vanguards ;d

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

My point exactly. It'll be fun to see once Bioware nerfs your OP class, and trust me they will, because then everyone will stop playing like jerks and either play as some other class or start playing like a proper Vanguard.

it's a co-op game right? so i'm still helping the other players by killing stuff. there is no OP class. every single one is viable and makes sense in different situations. i'm confused by your logic. rooting for vanguards to get nerfed... it's my fault you can't kill stuff? and playing like a 'proper vanguard'... what is that play style like? please enlighten me, mr. YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PLAYING IT THE WAY I WANT YOU TO!!!!!

#27 Posted by phampire (287 posts) -

playing as a vanguard works best with an aggressive playstyle an requires constant monitoring of cooldowns, shield levels and enemy positioning. vanguards are pretty useless in gold challenges as they are usually the first to die, i prefer playing with infiltrators that can aim.

#28 Posted by david3cm (635 posts) -

YES!!! I've been working ever so hard for the 5000 kill achievement (fuck you whoever thought that was a good idea) and I've learned to leave a lobby with vangaurds in it because A) use their rush and ground pound combo to steal your kills and B) usually die in the midst of an enemy squad and ultimatly lead to the teams loss. I was going to replay the story with a Vangaurd but am now choosing a different class on principal.

#29 Edited by Tennmuerti (8140 posts) -

Those vanguards charging the enemy are also making sure more enemies are focusing on them, rather then you.
If it was not for them charging in into the enemy all those enemies would be focusing on your ass a lot more.
Also a good Vanguard can take your Banshee by himself without dieing no problems.
Like others have already mentioned, vanguards are only the bees knees on Bronze and early Silver waves.
 

@uniform

said:

Looks like your issue is with bad players, not Vanguards. You're just noticing more poor play amongst them because Vanguard is popular.

This.
In every MP game bad players will pile up on the one thing that seems OP, and is surrently hot.
 

@Kevin_Cogneto

said:

@Enigma777 said:

Well, I just think it's really fun teleporting around. Not my fault I get swarmed...

I did find that a Vanguard and an Infiltrator make a great team though. Vanguard rushes in and takes out 2-3 dudes, Infiltrator cloaks and revives him then provides long-range support, rinse and repeat.

I play as an Infiltrator, and I can't stand Vanguards. The chaos they cause makes it nearly impossible to snipe; what I want is for the enemy units to be taking cover and moving in predictable patterns, not running in a thousand different directions because of the Vanguard in their midst. And while I do feel a certain responsibility to use my cloak ability to save downed teammates when I can, if someone runs into a crowd of a dozen guys and gets killed, he's just gonna have to wait until the next wave, because I'm not putting myself at risk to go save him. The Infiltrator is not a medic class to bail people out when they get in over their heads.


Trust me Vanguards hate infiltrators, who sit far away from the action, and cloack always making enemies focus more on their teammates then on inflitrators.
Kill stealing with their sniper rifles right  under other players noses, killing Vanguards targets before the charge gets there.
It's a 2 way street.
 
Plenty of bad Infiltrators too.
#30 Posted by Rabid619 (1103 posts) -

I play a Vanguard in ME3 multiplayer, and yes while I do rush head first into enemies, I don't do it if there's more than a couple enemies, or if they have shields. Vanguard is a fun class, and when used right it is absolutely devastating in my opinion, but yeah, most Vanguards who play don't know what the hell they are doing. 
 
Something that most don't really do is use Charge in a defensive manner. A fully upgraded Charge will give you back 100% of your shields, basically saving your ass if you use it at the right time. I do the Charge - Nova - Shotgun tactic a lot too, but I follow it with another Charge immediately afterwards to get my ass out of the mess I just put myself into. You really have to know when it's time to attack ruthlessly and when it's time to turn tail and run.
 
I'd honestly suggest every one try playing a Vanguard occasionally, it's by far the most fun and effective class in my opinion... when used right.

#31 Posted by faustyn (615 posts) -

@Marokai said:

@faustyn said:

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

And as frustrating as it might be for some people, it's also totally the crux of that class. A Vanguard that isn't using Biotic Charge frequently is basically just a weak version of the Adept. It's hard to begrudge a class for using the ability that really makes that class.

exactly. is the best thing about the class and also it's biggest weakness.

#32 Posted by GentlemanlyGentleman (320 posts) -

I'll admit that I can get a little kill happy and just start zooming around the map, but I never normally play anything like that. Unfortunately the class is so damn fun that you can tend to forget what you're doing. Just the fact that if I see an enemy on the other side of the map, all it requires is a simple push of triangle to kill him and then shockwave any of his friends nearby. But for the most part I'll stay with the team and rarely consider moving off on my own.
 
I never encountered anyone like you described until yesterday. He went down about 5 times and on Wave 10 he pretty much abandoned us. The rest of us were trying to upload data whilst he dicked about elsewhere, eventually we all went down and he was the only one left. He proceeded to act like an idiot and avoid the objective until there was 2 minutes left, when it was almost complete he left the objective area and got his arse kicked by a mech. Stupid tit.

#33 Edited by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@faustyn said:

@Mordukai said:

@faustyn said:

@Mordukai said:

and most of the times you see someone not at the extraction point at the end of round it's probably going to be a Vanguard.

i play as a vanguard and i never go to the extraction point because there is no point in doing that. sitting in that zone and getting raped by enemies is a pretty stupid idea. i usually go to the opposite side of the map and in the last 30 second run back to the LZ. sitting in the zone for 2 minutes is pointless and people doing that are probably not vanguards ;d

also i don't see a problem in people constantly using the biotic charge. it recharges your shield so it's super useful. and charging a banshee is a legit tactic. you shoot her a bunch and when she's throwing the projectile you just charge her. then you just repeat the pattern.

My point exactly. It'll be fun to see once Bioware nerfs your OP class, and trust me they will, because then everyone will stop playing like jerks and either play as some other class or start playing like a proper Vanguard.

it's a co-op game right? so i'm still helping the other players by killing stuff. there is no OP class. every single one is viable and makes sense in different situations. i'm confused by your logic. rooting for vanguards to get nerfed... it's my fault you can't kill stuff? and playing like a 'proper vanguard'... what is that play style like? please enlighten me, mr. YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PLAYING IT THE WAY I WANT YOU TO!!!!!

Have I ever said you are playing the game wrong? I said most Vanguards don't care much about the team work in the game which is the center of the coop mode to work as a team and not go off rushing into group of enemies on their own. I have no problem with you guys "taking all the kills or the points". Frankly I couldn't care less about it. What I do care about is the way you guys completely neglect to work with in the team and just have that "I'm the center of the universe" attitude. A good Vanguard should stay just a few steps a head of the group and not go off rushing on their own. Wait for the shields and armor to go down then spam Charge/Nova combo as much as you want. I am also tired of hearing the Vanguards yelling in my mic for me to revive them especially when I play as Infiltrator. I am not going to risk my own well being for your stupidity.

My point is that to you it's about the killing but to me it's about the satisfaction I get when a team works together. We are just have two sets of mind frame when it comes to how we play and what the game is about. The way most players play that class just brakes the harmony of the coop mode.

There bad apples in every class and you'll always going to find the one dude who brakes the harmony and just wants to be 1st at the end of the round but more then often that class are the Vanguards.

@phampire said:

playing as a vanguard works best with an aggressive playstyle an requires constant monitoring of cooldowns, shield levels and enemy positioning. vanguards are pretty useless in gold challenges as they are usually the first to die, i prefer playing with infiltrators that can aim.

For that reason my group moved up to Gold and doing SIlver if me and buddies just want to to fuck around. I pretty much have no desire to play on Bronze anymore.

#34 Posted by MethodMan008 (817 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Flowchart Vanguard?

ha!

#35 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (1099 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@Enigma777 said:

Well, I just think it's really fun teleporting around. Not my fault I get swarmed...

I did find that a Vanguard and an Infiltrator make a great team though. Vanguard rushes in and takes out 2-3 dudes, Infiltrator cloaks and revives him then provides long-range support, rinse and repeat.

I play as an Infiltrator, and I can't stand Vanguards. The chaos they cause makes it nearly impossible to snipe; what I want is for the enemy units to be taking cover and moving in predictable patterns, not running in a thousand different directions because of the Vanguard in their midst. And while I do feel a certain responsibility to use my cloak ability to save downed teammates when I can, if someone runs into a crowd of a dozen guys and gets killed, he's just gonna have to wait until the next wave, because I'm not putting myself at risk to go save him. The Infiltrator is not a medic class to bail people out when they get in over their heads.

Trust me Vanguards hate infiltrators, who sit far away from the action, and cloack always making enemies focus more on their teammates then on inflitrators. Kill stealing with their sniper rifles right under other players noses, killing Vanguards targets before the charge gets there. It's a 2 way street. Plenty of bad Infiltrators too.

I can understand that. I guess we can agree that we both disagree with , Vanguard and Infiltrator do not make a great team.

#36 Edited by big_jon (5743 posts) -

@Mordukai: Sounds like you are in fact the n00b.

#37 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@big_jon: Wow. My first time being trolled by big_jon. I almost feel honored. No wait, I don't. At least put some more thought into his trolling and was mildly amusing.

#38 Edited by big_jon (5743 posts) -

@Mordukai: Well sorry dude but if you're off alone and dieing then bitching about your team mates, you are the problem, not them.

Try using more skill. :D

Also, calm the hell down, we are talking about hoard mode in Mass Effect, not some highly competitive shooter.

#39 Posted by Breadfan (6590 posts) -

Space racist.

#40 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@big_jon said:

@Mordukai: Well sorry dude but if you're off alone and dieing then bitching about your team mates, you are the problem, not them.

Try using more skill. :D

Ok now you got me confused. Are directing that comment at me or the players I am bitching about?

#41 Edited by big_jon (5743 posts) -

@Mordukai said:

@big_jon said:

@Mordukai: Well sorry dude but if you're off alone and dieing then bitching about your team mates, you are the problem, not them.

Try using more skill. :D

Ok now you got me confused. Are directing that comment at me or the players I am bitching about?

Oh, I see, thought you were speaking from the perspective of the Vanguard.

What ever, I just play sentinel, and soldier, I want a damn Krogan, but no matter how many time I try I can't unlock one.

#42 Posted by spazmaster666 (1972 posts) -

Vanguard was the first class I leveled up to 20 and yes I think it's arguably the easiest class to level up since you often end up with the highest score in most matches if you're competent. And yes I ended up mostly just spamming charge + nova, then dodge and charge + nova again, etc. It was a lot of fun, and I've even taken out Banshees and Brutes pretty effectively using that tactic. But it also gets kinda monotonous after a while and it's not nearly as effective of a combo in Silver or Gold challenges.

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