Mass Effect 3 - Turns out it was supposed to be about dark energy

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#1 Edited by sthusby (382 posts) -

Spoilers ahoy.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

Those of us who have completed ME3 by now know that the reason for the Reaper's existence is to clense the galaxy for all life, or else synthetics would eventually kill all organics. Finally, they would harvest all life and turn them into reapers, so that they don't disappear forever. I think we all can agree this is pretty stupid. So to ensure machines doesn't kill organics, a bunch of machines kill everyone instead. Fool proof idea. Not to mention the fact that I just made the Quarian and Geth BFF's.

Anyways, rumors are surfacing suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things, and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever. Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for the reapers.

I like this idea much better, as it would suggest that the reapers are both good and bad. They're intention is certainly good, but they're going about it all the wrong ways. And though it might not be the most original plot twist or the best one, it would certainly be a lot better than the reason that made it into the final game.

So what do you guys think? Would you prefer it the way it is, or would it be better with the dark energy plot?

#2 Edited by Etnos (245 posts) -

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

#3 Posted by TheHT (11389 posts) -

It's neat, but what would your endgame be? I'm guessing:

1. Kill everyone.

2. Kill Reapers and eventually destroy the galaxy.

3. Reduce your galactic footprint and change every forum topic from "omg the ending sucks" to "omg mass effect was about environmental bullshit all along, and the ending sucks".

I wonder if this reaction to the ending was at all avoidable. Probably, just not with that budget or schedule. Even then there's always someone.

#4 Edited by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

Reapers don't kill organics only. They harvest synthetics too. Why do you think the Geth are the only robots? The cycle has repeated countless times. Kill the intelligent, leave the undeveloped alone.

This whole thing reminds me of the "space law" that you don't interfere with civilizations that haven't discovered space travel and/or FTL engines.

Anyway the dark energy thing is not bad either. I still think the whole "harvest intelligent life" is good. People will bitch about everything.

#5 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@Etnos: I think you're kinda missing the point, and you're certainly the one whining. No, I did not like the ending, but only because the reason they gave to justify the reapers. That was sloppy. Why did they stray away from the dark energy stuff, especially since it's been hinted at for the last two games? It would be a lot better.

I don't want them to modify the ending, or actually, maybe I do. If most of the fans of Mass Effect don't like the ending, then why shouldn't we be entitled to get an ending that would magnify our enjoyment of the product tenfold? They really only have to change the last ten minutes of the game, from the point where you meet the God Child.

#6 Posted by Captain_Felafel (1573 posts) -

I don't understand what about the premise of galaxy-wide extinction doesn't make sense to people. The Reapers' cycle of extinction is to ensure that technologically-advanced races do not advance to the point of being able to create an AI that deems all organic life unnecessary and wipes it out. By selectively wiping out only technologically-advanced species, they sure the survival of organic life to some degree (i.e. "lesser", non-technologically-advanced races, such as the yahg), rather than the possibility of an organic-made AI that wipes out all organic life. It makes a lot more sense than people give it credit for.

#7 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

Reapers don't kill organics only. They harvest synthetics too. Why do you think the Geth are the only robots? The cycle has repeated countless times. Kill the intelligent, leave the undeveloped alone.

This whole thing reminds me of the "space law" that you don't interfere with civilizations that haven't discovered space travel and/or FTL engines.

Well, I said they kill everyone, never said just organics.

#8 Edited by sthusby (382 posts) -

@Etnos said:

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Added a link in my original post. The choices were supposed to be:

1. Kill the reapers, and take your chances about fixing the dark energy stuff with the little time that remains.

or

2. Let the reapers harvest all of humanity, because their diversity would be needed to finally stop the spread of dark energy.

And there would probably have been a third choice.

#9 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

@sthusby said:

@phrosnite said:

Reapers don't kill organics only. They harvest synthetics too. Why do you think the Geth are the only robots? The cycle has repeated countless times. Kill the intelligent, leave the undeveloped alone.

This whole thing reminds me of the "space law" that you don't interfere with civilizations that haven't discovered space travel and/or FTL engines.

Well, I said they kill everyone, never said just organics.

Well, I had to type that just to be clear because what I've noticed that most people think they harvest only organics... In ME1 was "all life" and for some reason in ME2 - "organics, organics, organics". People got confused apparently.

#10 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel said:

I don't understand what about the premise of galaxy-wide extinction doesn't make sense to people. The Reapers' cycle of extinction is to ensure that technologically-advanced races do not advance to the point of being able to create an AI that deems all organic life unnecessary and wipes it out. By selectively wiping out only technologically-advanced species, they sure the survival of organic life to some degree (i.e. "lesser", non-technologically-advanced races, such as the yahg), rather than the possibility of an organic-made AI that wipes out all organic life. It makes a lot more sense than people give it credit for.

It's not that I don't get it, but it kinda feels moot when I just ensured that the Geth and Qurian ended they're war. Especially considering that the Geth actually have seemed to be the most peaceful of all races, at least that's my impression after interacting with them.

#11 Posted by cmblasko (1253 posts) -

The Reapers' original purpose is much more coherent than what we got, but the intended endings still sound pretty uninspired.

Interested to know if the child was intended from the beginning or added late in development.

#12 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

The Dark energy stuff is just as dumb, actually, possibly even dumber, than the tech singularity bullshit.

These creatures keep on using our technology, based on mass effect fields, which use dark energy, which is destroying the galaxy. Plan A, we remove our tech and tell them to stop, or Plan B, we let them use more of our tech and just destroy them .

that makes even less sense.

#13 Edited by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

I hope they make the Indoctrination Theory canon. It's a total mind-fuck. Also if they did explain it like that and after the "best" ending the game continued and after "control" or "synthesis" it's just a screen "you have failed, the reapers harvest all advanced civilizations and go back to dark space" it would be the best end-game ever :)

Edit: I cannot understand why people bitch about "oh, all the choices, recruitments and 'little' choices I made throughout the games don't matter for the ending". Why should it? Who cares if you spared the Richni queen or not? This is just additional forces, nothing more. The Reapers have destroyed countless races before. Why should this be different?

I like how the plans for the "weapon" have been passed from cycle to cycle until it was finally finished in our time. This weapon is the only thing that can beat the reapers. Not stupid choices you made in ME1 or ME2.

People are such crybabies.

#14 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@phrosnite: Yeah I agree that the choices doesn't need to be reflected in the final choice. Those choices are there to colour your journey, and as we all know, the journey is more important than the goal. It's the differences that occured during the three games that are important, not how different the endings were. That's just my opinion though.

#15 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -

@phrosnite: I too hope they make the indoctrination scenario cannon. Why else would the best ending show

Shepard (assuming he/she is the person in the N7 armor) waking up on Earth, in the ruins of London. Waking up on Earth doesn't quite fit the whole "citadel exploding around you" scenario.
#16 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -
@gosukiller said:

@phrosnite: I too hope they make the indoctrination scenario cannon. Why else would the best ending show

Yeah, I agree. But if that's all true I'm sad to say that the game "got me". I thought "control" and "synthesis" were better endings... But that's because I had lost faith in Bioware after DA2. I saw most of the things that are talked about in the video but labeled them as "design oversight".
#17 Posted by Captain_Felafel (1573 posts) -

@sthusby said:

@Captain_Felafel said:

I don't understand what about the premise of galaxy-wide extinction doesn't make sense to people. The Reapers' cycle of extinction is to ensure that technologically-advanced races do not advance to the point of being able to create an AI that deems all organic life unnecessary and wipes it out. By selectively wiping out only technologically-advanced species, they sure the survival of organic life to some degree (i.e. "lesser", non-technologically-advanced races, such as the yahg), rather than the possibility of an organic-made AI that wipes out all organic life. It makes a lot more sense than people give it credit for.

It's not that I don't get it, but it kinda feels moot when I just ensured that the Geth and Qurian ended they're war. Especially considering that the Geth actually have seemed to be the most peaceful of all races, at least that's my impression after interacting with them.

Ab-so-lutely! I feel completely the same way. The logic inherent to the Reapers is flawed, as is evidence by my actions. However, there is of course the looming possibility another form of AI would be created that wouldn't be as docile as the geth turned out to be.

#18 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3759 posts) -

@Etnos said:

its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Yeah, the ending was pretty bad. Too bad they couldn't even be bothered to allow the original writer to fulfill his vision.

#19 Edited by tooPrime (345 posts) -

That ending at least fits the foreshadowing in the previous games (Sovereign calls each reaper a nation in Mass Effect 1, there are several references to humans being unique even in Mass Effect 3 of all places, also it explains why they are only trying to make a Reaper out of humans).

#20 Posted by UnlivedPhalanx (475 posts) -

@Etnos said:

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

I think I may love you.

ALSO, fucking finally someone else with some common sense. I made a blog post about this type of thing which pretty much just said that the other day.

#21 Posted by Sackmanjones (4711 posts) -
@sthusby said:

Spoilers ahoy.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

Those of us who have completed ME3 by now know that the reason for the Reaper's existence is to clense the galaxy for all life, or else synthetics would eventually kill all organics. Finally, they would harvest all life and turn them into reapers, so that they don't disappear forever. I think we all can agree this is pretty stupid. So to ensure machines doesn't kill organics, a bunch of machines kill everyone instead. Fool proof idea. Not to mention the fact that I just made the Quarian and Geth BFF's.

Anyways, rumors are surfacing suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things, and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever. Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for the reapers.

I like this idea much better, as it would suggest that the reapers are both good and bad. They're intention is certainly good, but they're going about it all the wrong ways. And though it might not be the most original plot twist or the best one, it would certainly be a lot better than the reason that made it into the final game.

So what do you guys think? Would you prefer it the way it is, or would it be better with the dark energy plot?


So I would like to throw a wrench into this "Protecting you from machines so we kill you with machines". Ok so you say it yourself, the Reapers harvest organisms so they kinda live on. Doesn't this make them organic in a way? Even if you would say no they are still only synthetic ok, a lot of the game is deciding if machines have "souls" and in many cases it seems like they do have self awareness or a "soul". Isn't it very possible that the Reapers are protecting themselves by doing this? Isn't it possible that the Reapers may have been worried that another synthetic life would take their spot and destroy them, and to prevent that they wipe life out every 50,000 years? Ponder this you will.
#22 Posted by S0ndor (2716 posts) -

I think this ending is pretty dumb as well, since the Reapers purposely leave behind the very technology that allows organics to manipulate the dark energy on a massive scale.

#23 Edited by sthusby (382 posts) -

Huh, after watching a certain video on Youtube, I render my entire thread moot. After watching this feature, I have totally fallen in love with ME3's ending, and I praise the crab people that they went with this ending. This is a mindfuck of epic proportions. And sure, you could argue that we don't know for sure, but knowing for sure is overrated. This is now my view on how MY Mass Effect experience ended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

#24 Posted by RedRavN (402 posts) -

I also think it would be great if indocrination theory was made cannon. It would basically make the ending make sense and fill in mst of the plot holes in the game. Also, the reapers have hinted at their true motives since ME1. My take is that eventually organic life will destroy itself either through synthetic engineering or biotics or an unknown event. So the reapers come and cull the development of life so that survival can occur.

#25 Edited by WarlordPayne (700 posts) -

I was just going to make a thread asking what the deal was with dark energy since it was hinted at being a major threat in ME2. I don't understand how they could have had an established ending, and then thought it was worth the effort to change it into what it ended up being.

#26 Posted by WilliamHenry (1204 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@Etnos said:

its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Yeah, the ending was pretty bad. Too bad they couldn't even be bothered to allow the original writer to fulfill his vision.

Its not that they didn't allow him to fulfill his vision, he quit the ME team to work on SW:TOR. If he stayed on the ME team, then the ending probably would have been more along with his vision. Can't blame Bioware for using the ideas from the team that is actually working on ME.

#27 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@TheHT said:

It's neat, but what would your endgame be? I'm guessing:

1. Kill everyone.

2. Kill Reapers and eventually destroy the galaxy.

3. Reduce your galactic footprint and change every forum topic from "omg the ending sucks" to "omg mass effect was about environmental bullshit all along, and the ending sucks".

I wonder if this reaction to the ending was at all avoidable. Probably, just not with that budget or schedule. Even then there's always someone.

Doing various research and reading a lot of threads and going through that leaked scrip I think I came up with what was supposed to be the original plot and ending to ME3.

At the end you find out that the Reapers were actually a "nations" of people who fused together in order to collectively find a solutions to the rapid expansion of Dark Energy. Their true intentions was actually saving the universe from Dark Energy which they discovered would eventually consume the it [the universe] in it's entirety. You'll discover that the real meanings behind the various genocide's were because

A.) They were actually adding all the various races into their own collectiveness in order to help them out in their quest to find a solution. That's why they only go after races who reached a certain "technological understanding" point in their culture and that's also the reason why they [The Reapers] left all this technology behind so the races would advance faster.

and B.) Make sure that the Dark Energy spread would not go completely out of control.

You would also find out that the real reason they tried doing a Human Reaper so soon is because the reapers were actually running out of time and were also afraid because the humans posed a real threat to them and it was meant ot be their Saving Throw in case plans did not go through.

You would also find out they picked to make a Human Reaper because in Mass Effect universe Humanity is supposedly unique because of it's genetic diversity (another issue I have a major problem with because this is factually wrong) and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

At the end you would be presented with two choices.

  1. You would have the chance to truly and finally kill the Reapers thereby putting trust in all the other races to find a solution to the Dark Energy spread and also putting trust in the universe to auto corrects itself.
  2. You would sacrifice every human, including you, in the galaxy thereby letting letting the Reapers horrifically process them into their ranks in a "The end result justifies the means" kinda way.

Threads and events from the various Mass Effect games would be finally tied and explained, like the Haestrom/Recruiting Tali mission and the Derilict Reaper mission were all supposed to be a sort of "Chekhov's Gun" to the main Dark Enegry plot of ME3.

This ending actually makes a lot more sense then the one we have now and why the Bioware writers completely abandoned it is a mystery to me. For one it makes more sense with the reapers being "Bad guys who think their actions are good and the end justifiable" which is exactly how the Renegade path works. On the other hand the Paragon path would have led you down a path that by uniting all the various nations you actually proved that the Reapers were wrong the whole time in their way of fining a solution to that problem.

Hope this clears things out.

#28 Posted by TheHT (11389 posts) -

@Mordukai said:

@TheHT said:

It's neat, but what would your endgame be? I'm guessing:

1. Kill everyone.

2. Kill Reapers and eventually destroy the galaxy.

3. Reduce your galactic footprint and change every forum topic from "omg the ending sucks" to "omg mass effect was about environmental bullshit all along, and the ending sucks".

I wonder if this reaction to the ending was at all avoidable. Probably, just not with that budget or schedule. Even then there's always someone.

Doing various research and reading a lot of threads and going through that leaked scrip I think I came up with what was supposed to be the original plot and ending to ME3.

At the end you find out that the Reapers were actually a "nations" of people who fused together in order to collectively find a solutions to the rapid expansion of Dark Energy. Their true intentions was actually saving the universe from Dark Energy which they discovered would eventually consume the it [the universe] in it's entirety. You'll discover that the real meanings behind the various genocide's were because

A.) They were actually adding all the various races into their own collectiveness in order to help them out in their quest to find a solution. That's why they only go after races who reached a certain "technological understanding" point in their culture and that's also the reason why they [The Reapers] left all this technology behind so the races would advance faster.

and B.) Make sure that the Dark Energy spread would not go completely out of control.

You would also find out that the real reason they tried doing a Human Reaper so soon is because the reapers were actually running out of time and were also afraid because the humans posed a real threat to them and it was meant ot be their Saving Throw in case plans did not go through.

You would also find out they picked to make a Human Reaper because in Mass Effect universe Humanity is supposedly unique because of it's genetic diversity (another issue I have a major problem with because this is factually wrong) and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

At the end you would be presented with two choices.

  1. You would have the chance to truly and finally kill the Reapers thereby putting trust in all the other races to find a solution to the Dark Energy spread and also putting trust in the universe to auto corrects itself.
  2. You would sacrifice every human, including you, in the galaxy thereby letting letting the Reapers horrifically process them into their ranks in a "The end result justifies the means" kinda way.

Threads and events from the various Mass Effect games would be finally tied and explained, like the Haestrom/Recruiting Tali mission and the Derilict Reaper mission were all supposed to be a sort of "Chekhov's Gun" to the main Dark Enegry plot of ME3.

This ending actually makes a lot more sense then the one we have now and why the Bioware writers completely abandoned it is a mystery to me. For one it makes more sense with the reapers being "Bad guys who think their actions are good and the end justifiable" which is exactly how the Renegade path works. On the other hand the Paragon path would have led you down a path that by uniting all the various nations you actually proved that the Reapers were wrong the whole time in their way of fining a solution to that problem.

Hope this clears things out.

That would've been a great ending provided they could deliver point A with tact.

The prospect of the Reapers in Mass Effect 1 as a massive force where each Reaper is an individual nation unto themselves all banded together for some celestial task they've been performing time immemorial was really intriguing. While they do deliver on some of that promise with the final ending, I guess any clear revelations would take away from that mystery and diminish some of the awe.

#29 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@TheHT: I agree to some extant because it would have made and ending with real closure and also have left enough room for interpretations and discussions. Like: Who are these nations. Are they from this galaxy? Have they been doing this on other galaxies since the Reapers are clearly cable of intergalactic Travel? Does the end truly justifies the means? And much more.

#30 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

This actually...makes sense within the narrative?!?

...WITCH! Burn him at the stake!!!!

Seriously though, fucking hell, that would have cleared up a pretty big mystery, although I always said that the destruction of Dark Energy would have been a better fit for the endings given...pity this wasn't the way it went, would have actually been an interesting factor to why Haestrom's sun was going to shit, and would have ended a mystery while melding into a main plot...

God dammit, why didn't they go with this explanation, it would have been a nice nod, and not terrible!

#31 Posted by imooumoo (43 posts) -

@Etnos said:

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

This has nothing to do with the topic. Take YOUR ENTITLEMENT somewhere else.

#32 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

#33 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

#34 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

No, I haven't. And I didn't say nobody has done it, I just said I loved how Bioware dared to do it.

#35 Edited by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

No, I haven't. And I didn't say nobody has done it, I just said I loved how Bioware dared to do it.

And it's amazing to see just how much that dare backfired them. Ending aside i think ME3 is pointing at a much more sever problems within the Bioware ranks.

EDIT: In case you missed my hint "Go...Play...System...Shock...2"

#36 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

No, I haven't. And I didn't say nobody has done it, I just said I loved how Bioware dared to do it.

And it's amazing to see just how much that dare backfired them. Ending aside i think ME3 is pointing at a much more sever problems within the Bioware ranks.

EDIT: In case you missed my hint "Go...Play...System...Shock...2"

I didn't like the ending a first. Then I realised the indoctrination theory had to be canon, or at least it is for me, and now I love the ending.

#37 Edited by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

No, I haven't. And I didn't say nobody has done it, I just said I loved how Bioware dared to do it.

And it's amazing to see just how much that dare backfired them. Ending aside i think ME3 is pointing at a much more sever problems within the Bioware ranks.

EDIT: In case you missed my hint "Go...Play...System...Shock...2"

I didn't like the ending a first. Then I realised the indoctrination theory had to be canon, or at least it is for me, and now I love the ending.

So what will do when Bioware retcon the ending and summerly execute that indoctrination theory? While it's a nice idea you are aware that whole theory is just fans grasping at straws, right?

#38 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@mordukai said:

@sthusby said:

@imooumoo: Yeaaah, he got told!

Anyways, I'm content with saying that everything between the last ditch atempt to reach the beacon, and the point when Shepard draws breath on earth again, actually happens in Shepard's mind. And I love that they were so daring as to put a spiritual ending to such a science heavy game.

You haven't played System Shock 2 then.

No, I haven't. And I didn't say nobody has done it, I just said I loved how Bioware dared to do it.

And it's amazing to see just how much that dare backfired them. Ending aside i think ME3 is pointing at a much more sever problems within the Bioware ranks.

EDIT: In case you missed my hint "Go...Play...System...Shock...2"

I didn't like the ending a first. Then I realised the indoctrination theory had to be canon, or at least it is for me, and now I love the ending.

So what will do when Bioware retcon the ending and summerly execute that indoctrination theory? While it's a nice idea you are aware that whole theory is just fans grasping at straws, right?

We'll see. I have faith in Bioware, and I see no reason they should fuck up here. The indoctrination theory is clearly meant to be true. They've never said they'll change the ending. They've said they'll add some clarification. And I think that clarification will be to tell everyone that Shepard was fighting indoctrination at the end.

#39 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@UnlivedPhalanx said:

@Etnos said:

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

I think I may love you.

ALSO, fucking finally someone else with some common sense. I made a blog post about this type of thing which pretty much just said that the other day.

Yeah, I mean, let's defend the terrible ending under the guise of "adding onto it would break immersion and dramatic effect" (as if The Arrival did this to ME2), when the entire reason the ending is terrible is that it already brokes those things. Hey, the squadmates it showed rushing with me to the beam 2 seconds ago? Nope, now they're on the Normandy somehow magically fleeing an explosion because Joker got scared and decided to flee the most important battle in galactic history for some reason.

I mean, people teleporting around isn't immersion breaking. It's also very dramatic. You know what else doesn't break immersion? having characters behave COMPLETELY contrary to how they were designed, and having a game based on choice remove that aspect and force you into a path that is contrary to everything the series was about.

And this is logical to you?

To say nothing of the fact that he randomly put that here when it's unrelated to the thread (what the fuck does their previous vision for the ending have to do with the future of the ending?) when there's a million other threads where it'd fit in.

#40 Edited by AndrewB (7637 posts) -

That's not a rumor if it's what Drew Karpyshyn said. Assuming multiple news outlets aren't misinformed or lying, that's the truth.

They even started setting things up with the Haestrom mission in Mass Effect 2.

#41 Posted by dr_mantas (1915 posts) -

Unlike the indoctrination "theory", which is completely utterly stupid and ridiculous, this seems like a much better premise for the ending.

Online
#42 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

@dr_mantas: It's not stupid, it's perfect.

#43 Posted by Etnos (245 posts) -

@Pinworm45: Ok cool.. the ending could be better yes... I agree. But then people can also have a life and move on. What about reading another book?, playing another game?, watching a movie of your like?

I though Dragon Age 2 was rubbish.. I'm moved on into Daggerfall and The Witcher, I didn't went into FTC and tantrum my ass off in the internet.

#44 Posted by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@sthusby said:

As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark matter

We don't know, it's theory.

#45 Posted by huser (1085 posts) -

@sthusby said:

Spoilers ahoy.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

Those of us who have completed ME3 by now know that the reason for the Reaper's existence is to clense the galaxy for all life, or else synthetics would eventually kill all organics. Finally, they would harvest all life and turn them into reapers, so that they don't disappear forever. I think we all can agree this is pretty stupid. So to ensure machines doesn't kill organics, a bunch of machines kill everyone instead. Fool proof idea. Not to mention the fact that I just made the Quarian and Geth BFF's.

Anyways, rumors are surfacing suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things, and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever. Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for the reapers.

I like this idea much better, as it would suggest that the reapers are both good and bad. They're intention is certainly good, but they're going about it all the wrong ways. And though it might not be the most original plot twist or the best one, it would certainly be a lot better than the reason that made it into the final game.

So what do you guys think? Would you prefer it the way it is, or would it be better with the dark energy plot?

1) Dark energy and dark matter are not interchangeable terms. They are in fact characterized by their opposite effects on the universe regarding gravitational attraction vs spatial arrangement of normal matter/energy.

2) While I'm not going to defend the ending, it ISN'T synthetics killing organics to prevent synthetics killing organics. It's synthetics preventing the rise of a machine intelligence that would kill ALL organics. As in every cave dwelling, rock throwing fish in the sea. IE all life that could ever exist. I know that is the trite way of thinking of it, but the Reapers clearly don't kill ALL life. Heck even granting your argument the semantic loophole of "everyone", the Reapers don't even do that since our cavemen ancestors made it through the last several dozen cullings.

#46 Posted by huser (1085 posts) -

@mordukai: How is it factually wrong that humanity is particularly genetically diverse relative to fictional aliens?

#47 Posted by El_Duderino (37 posts) -

@Captain_Felafel: if the reapers have the power to wipe out all the technologically advanced organic civilizations why couldn't they just wipe out the evil synthetic life when it arises?

#48 Posted by TheHT (11389 posts) -

@El_Duderino said:

@Captain_Felafel: if the reapers have the power to wipe out all the technologically advanced organic civilizations why couldn't they just wipe out the evil synthetic life when it arises?

The organics who created them could still create those synthetics again later. Solution: kill the creator.

#49 Edited by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@huser said:

@mordukai: How is it factually wrong that humanity is particularly genetically diverse relative to fictional aliens?

You misunderstood. Not compared to fictional aliens but the Mass Effect universe keeps saying that human beings are genetically diverse. That is completely wrong. Fact of the matter is that there's very little genetic various between all humans today suggesting that human beings went through a population buttleneck roughly about 70,000 years ago. Sure we look different but that's mostly cosmetics. There are more genetic differences between two chimps of different clans who live in the same area then there are between two humans living on the oppisite sides of the planet. This also a point that irked me on Mordin's Loyalty mission from ME2 where he [Mordin] claims that humans are the best live subjects because of the large genetic veriation. If you're that interested in that subject then Google and Wikipedia are your friends..

#50 Posted by neoepoch (1295 posts) -
@Etnos said:

I think silly Bioware listened to whiners was bad, if you don't like the ending... fine, move out with your life, read, watch or write your god damn own novel with a ending you like... Whatever tingle your fancy.

Consuming a piece of fiction and then try to modified as a spoiled entitled brat, its ridiculous... it breaks all the immersion and dramatic effect a fictional universe can construct.

Also remember: Popularity is about appealing to the lowest common denominator.

You sure stayed on topic for about 1.5 seconds.

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