Should this be the end of the Mass Effect IP?

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#1 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

As much as I hate to think about it, this seems like a question that fans of the series should contemplate.

Most of the writing team from the original ME1 has left Bioware, and we've seen what the new generation is capable of. EA seems to be the one calling the shots regarding development cycles and that seems to have had a very detrimental impact on the final product. After DA2 and now ME3, I just don't get the feeling that Bioware is capable of handling a complex IP that requires attention to detail and consistent quality of writing.

Finally, the state of the IP's cannon is a shambles after ME3's ending, and seems to be un-salvageable. I used to think that the Mass Effect universe was the perfect set up for an MMORPG, squad RTS, or any number of game types. Now it's like, what's the point? If the developer is not going to take their own fiction seriously, why should anyone else?

#2 Posted by Garfield518 (404 posts) -

No, I want a space sim.

#3 Posted by tsiro (214 posts) -

If this is the end of the Mass Effect IP, I will cry forever. I love the universe way too much for this to be the end.

#4 Posted by Scrawnto (2440 posts) -

I want a game like Homeworld set in the Mass Effect universe, so no. Though to be fair, I want a game like Homeworld set in any/every universe, because I love that game so much.

#5 Edited by Packie (255 posts) -

Bioware did state they're gonna make more games but games that are set after the events of ME3, how the heck are they gonna dig themselves out of that continuity black hole?

But seriously, I'd love to see a Deus Ex-esque first person game where you play as one of the Shadow Broker's agents.

#6 Edited by IAmNotBatman (630 posts) -

I really wouldn't care if it was, and I've put an atrocious amount of hours into Mass Effect, especially the first one (fuck you Normandy elevator).

#7 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@tsiro: I really like it too, but I'd rather not see it go the way of Command and Conquer or Warcraft where the IP was poorly managed over time and eventually just became crap. I'm in the minority of fans who thought that ME3 had sub-par writing throughout the campaign, not just with the ending. At this point I think it's not unreasonable to say that Bioware is going through a period of decay.

I really liked the Warcraft IP, but that fictional universe is now populated by aliens, anthropomorphic panda bears and other stupid crap. I just hope the same careless stupidity doesn't infect Mass Effect.

#8 Posted by Scrawnto (2440 posts) -

@Packie: That would actually be pretty neat. A little less 'epic' maybe, but there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. It would be cool to see more of the day to day life of people in that universe, intrigue and such.

#9 Posted by Jasta (2217 posts) -

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

#10 Edited by Jost1 (2077 posts) -

@tsiro said:

If this is the end of the Mass Effect IP, I will cry forever. I love the universe way too much for this to be the end.

Well I guess Bioware shouldn't have effectively killed it for a lot of people then?

#11 Posted by drag (1223 posts) -

No of course not. There's still plenty of scope for plenty of interesting & original games to take place in the galaxy and I look forward to seeing what is coming next. I think the scenario laid out at the end of ME3 is actually really interesting and I'm not sure how that shows they're not taking anything seriously where 'everything's turned out pretty much okay so now we can do an MMO easily' would.

#12 Posted by PSNgamesun (406 posts) -

I think they should leave it as is for a while at least till the next consoles come out n I really hope that ur wrong with EA n bioware not being able to have the time to make epic titles

#13 Posted by CaptainObvious (2996 posts) -

Imagine Republic Commando set in ME universe.

#14 Posted by N7 (3585 posts) -

Most of the reason I hated the ending was... you know... they kind of dug themselves into a hole so deep, that if they ever did do a sequel, or just another Mass Effect game set after 3, it's going to be stupid. No way they can fix that. That's why I wanted the Indoctrination Theory to be true, so they can set it up for another great game(Hopefully one with a better ending!).
 
Mass Effect is just too unique to be gone.

#15 Posted by JDW519 (148 posts) -

Not at all, If anything the ending just seemed to be a way to wipe the slate clean so they wouldn't have to always pull specific player choices into future games.

#16 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@Jasta said:

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

Oh I know, there is no way they're going to scuttle the IP, it is way too profitable. My question is whether or not they should? Is the quality of the IP just going to deteriorate from here on out (due to a number of factors) and therefore make an abrupt end to the series preferable to a slow decent into crappiness.

I totally agree with you that the IP will go on, I'm just asking if it's even a good idea.

#17 Edited by pyromagnestir (4296 posts) -

@Jasta: That seems crazy. There will be new consoles out before any new Mass Effect game could exist, won't there? Importing saves to that would be impossible. Are you sure you're not thinking of something they said regarding dlc for 3 or whatever?

#18 Posted by matthias2437 (985 posts) -

Honestly I kind of think so, not even because the ending wasn't the best but just because I am kind of worn down on that universe.

#19 Posted by Village_Guy (2546 posts) -

I would certainly be sad to see Mass Effect die already, imagine the great games that can still be made from the mold of that universe. Homeworld-, Republic Commando-, Battlefield- and LA Noire-esque games could all be amazing in that universe, to name a few examples.

#20 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

I'd like it to be.

The universe is pretty much fucked as it is, there's no real future beyond 3, and really...do we need another ME game? The series has ended, let's not beat a dead horse.

If they do come out with an MMO, it won't end well. I have no interest in paying monthly fees to not be able to access half the interesting shit, being dangled in front of me like an incentive carrot, and in a series where the main attraction, the Mass Relays, are destroyed, traversing the universe is pretty much out of the question.

If anything, they'll do some prequels, but I'd rather they let it die where it is, we don't need another Halo: Reach situation, where the hype ends up being underwhelming, to the point that we wonder if the dev even cares about the series anymore.

#21 Posted by Jasta (2217 posts) -
@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

Oh I know, there is no way they're going to scuttle the IP, it is way too profitable. My question is whether or not they should? Is the quality of the IP just going to deteriorate from here on out (due to a number of factors) and therefore make an abrupt end to the series preferable to a slow decent into crappiness.

I totally agree with you that the IP will go on, I'm just asking if it's even a good idea.

If by "due to a number of factors"  you mean the ending of Mass Effect 3, then I say there is absolutely no reason they should dump the series. Despite the massive amount of controversy surrounding that game at the moment, there still a good chance it will be my (and many others) GOTY 2012. I put 35 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. They screwed up the ending but almost aced the rest of the game in my books.
#22 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

It needs a rest, but not forever.

#23 Posted by Jost1 (2077 posts) -

I'd rather have some new and original sci fi at this point.

Mass Effect is over, they made sure of it.

#24 Posted by BaneFireLord (2924 posts) -

Yes. It won't be the end of the IP, not by a long shot because EA likes money, but it sure as hell should be.

#25 Posted by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

Nope. Keep making more Mass Effect games.

#26 Posted by Jasta (2217 posts) -
@pyromagnestir said:

@Jasta: That seems crazy. There will be new consoles out before any new Mass Effect game could exist, won't there? Importing saves to that would be impossible. Are you sure you're not thinking of something they said regarding dlc for 3 or whatever?

Who's to say importing saves from one console to another is impossible?

Here's the article I quoted the guy from - http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox/news-xbox/mass-effect-3-saves.html

“We want the outcomes to be satisfying to the player. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re all going to be happy or positive, but they have to be satisfying. Players have to understand that the choices they’ve been making in this game and in previous have had an impact, and that they’re an architect in what happens.”

Oh boy. If only he knew.
#27 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@Jasta said:

@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

Oh I know, there is no way they're going to scuttle the IP, it is way too profitable. My question is whether or not they should? Is the quality of the IP just going to deteriorate from here on out (due to a number of factors) and therefore make an abrupt end to the series preferable to a slow decent into crappiness.

I totally agree with you that the IP will go on, I'm just asking if it's even a good idea.

If by "due to a number of factors" you mean the ending of Mass Effect 3, then I say there is absolutely no reason they should dump the series. Despite the massive amount of controversy surrounding that game at the moment, there still a good chance it will be my (and many others) GOTY 2012. I put 35 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. They screwed up the ending but almost aced the rest of the game in my books.

Sorry I should have clarified. When I said "number of factors" I was referring to my OP. The "factors" IMHO are:

  1. Deteriorating quality of writers at Bioware. I'm of the minority that thinks the writing throughout ME3 was bad, not just ending. I didn't like the lazy and random use of cameos to bring back characters, the tone of the Reaper war which never really felt dire or urgent. Also the dialogue was just stupid at times, and especially the introduction of characters for nothing but sex. It just seemed to be an inferior game to ME1 and ME2. Couple this with the disappointment that was DA2, and it seems like Bioware is in creative decay and therefore poor stewards of the franchise.
  2. EA's influence on the development of Mass Effect Games. Simply put, they are forcing developers (Bioware) to rush out products that feel unfinished and not entirely thought-out. DLC is an issue as well, but admittedly it does not necessarily affect the quality of the games.
  3. The state of the IP's cannon post ME3. Frankly, the ending is game breaking (IMHO) and potentially fatal for future entries to the series. One of the hallmarks of the series is that it takes its own fiction very seriously and will reward players who do so. That is a pro. The con is that if suddenly they series is no longer taking itself seriously, fans who have made an investment into it will be turned off.

So I think there are some bigger problems even outside the game itself that bode poorly for the franchise's future.

#28 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

There will be a prequel.

#29 Posted by Karkarov (3071 posts) -

No this should be the end of shepards story AKA Mass Effect. The universe it took place in obviously survived, just changed quite a bit. But who says they can't do a game that takes place before the ME story did? I would like to see something based around the first contact war for example.

#30 Posted by mordukai (7150 posts) -

@boj4ngles: End, no. But it does need a long brake to see where the Bioware wants to take it next. Pumping out a Mass Effect game in the next two years will be a HUGE mistake.

Love your avatar pic btw. Planescape: Torment will be the best story ever told in RPG game.

#31 Posted by Aetheldod (3552 posts) -

Sorry to hihjack this thread but a fan made a epilogue generator and it does seem that with some good thoughts the Mass Effect universe post reaper war can be salvagable and continued upon .... http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11005521/1is not too late Bioware. So no ,  it should be continued , but Bioware must make sure they dont pull off what they did in ME3 ending again.

#32 Posted by Jasta (2217 posts) -
@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

Oh I know, there is no way they're going to scuttle the IP, it is way too profitable. My question is whether or not they should? Is the quality of the IP just going to deteriorate from here on out (due to a number of factors) and therefore make an abrupt end to the series preferable to a slow decent into crappiness.

I totally agree with you that the IP will go on, I'm just asking if it's even a good idea.

If by "due to a number of factors" you mean the ending of Mass Effect 3, then I say there is absolutely no reason they should dump the series. Despite the massive amount of controversy surrounding that game at the moment, there still a good chance it will be my (and many others) GOTY 2012. I put 35 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. They screwed up the ending but almost aced the rest of the game in my books.

Sorry I should have clarified. When I said "number of factors" I was referring to my OP. The "factors" IMHO are:

  1. Deteriorating quality of writers at Bioware. I'm of the minority that thinks the writing throughout ME3 was bad, not just ending. I didn't like the lazy and random use of cameos to bring back characters, the tone of the Reaper war which never really felt dire or urgent. Also the dialogue was just stupid at times, and especially the introduction of characters for nothing but sex. It just seemed to be an inferior game to ME1 and ME2. Couple this with the disappointment that was DA2, and it seems like Bioware is in creative decay and therefore poor stewards of the franchise.
  2. EA's influence on the development of Mass Effect Games. Simply put, they are forcing developers (Bioware) to rush out products that feel unfinished and not entirely thought-out. DLC is an issue as well, but admittedly it does not necessarily affect the quality of the games.
  3. The state of the IP's cannon post ME3. Frankly, the ending is game breaking (IMHO) and potentially fatal for future entries to the series. One of the hallmarks of the series is that it takes its own fiction very seriously and will reward players who do so. That is a pro. The con is that if suddenly they series is no longer taking itself seriously, fans who have made an investment into it will be turned off.

So I think there are some bigger problems even outside the game itself that bode poorly for the franchise's future.

All of the points you make are valid, but on almost all counts I disagree with them (apart from the ending). Coming to a consensus when people at opposite ends of the spectrum are so passionate about their argument is near enough impossible. The only thing I'm willing to bet is that when the next Mass Effect gets released, all the people who said they would boycott the series after finishing Mass Effect 3 will buy it. 

Neither of us are wrong in this debate, but finding a universal opinion on such a diverse argument just isn't going to happen.

Who knows, this new Summer DLC might FIX EVERYTHING. =P

#33 Posted by SteamPunkJin (1286 posts) -

I'd like to see the MP expanded upon, full coop campaign etc. Steal the idea from SWTOR where teammates pick a response and it randomly selects one to show to everyone (but gives everyone their proper alignment points). Hell make it a digital title w/ episodic updates, it can just be a small replayable thing.

#34 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

Mass Effect 3 was awesome and I can't wait to see what's coming next. Maybe a game about Thane during his assassin years or Shepard becoming N7. It should be awesome.

Haters gonna hate.

#35 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@Jasta said:

@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

@boj4ngles said:

@Jasta said:

I seem to remember someone from Bioware saying "You should probably hang onto your Mass Effect 3 save." or along the lines of that. So based on this and the popularity of the IP, I'd guess that Bioware is in no way finished with Mass Effect.

Oh I know, there is no way they're going to scuttle the IP, it is way too profitable. My question is whether or not they should? Is the quality of the IP just going to deteriorate from here on out (due to a number of factors) and therefore make an abrupt end to the series preferable to a slow decent into crappiness.

I totally agree with you that the IP will go on, I'm just asking if it's even a good idea.

If by "due to a number of factors" you mean the ending of Mass Effect 3, then I say there is absolutely no reason they should dump the series. Despite the massive amount of controversy surrounding that game at the moment, there still a good chance it will be my (and many others) GOTY 2012. I put 35 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. They screwed up the ending but almost aced the rest of the game in my books.

Sorry I should have clarified. When I said "number of factors" I was referring to my OP. The "factors" IMHO are:

  1. Deteriorating quality of writers at Bioware. I'm of the minority that thinks the writing throughout ME3 was bad, not just ending. I didn't like the lazy and random use of cameos to bring back characters, the tone of the Reaper war which never really felt dire or urgent. Also the dialogue was just stupid at times, and especially the introduction of characters for nothing but sex. It just seemed to be an inferior game to ME1 and ME2. Couple this with the disappointment that was DA2, and it seems like Bioware is in creative decay and therefore poor stewards of the franchise.
  2. EA's influence on the development of Mass Effect Games. Simply put, they are forcing developers (Bioware) to rush out products that feel unfinished and not entirely thought-out. DLC is an issue as well, but admittedly it does not necessarily affect the quality of the games.
  3. The state of the IP's cannon post ME3. Frankly, the ending is game breaking (IMHO) and potentially fatal for future entries to the series. One of the hallmarks of the series is that it takes its own fiction very seriously and will reward players who do so. That is a pro. The con is that if suddenly they series is no longer taking itself seriously, fans who have made an investment into it will be turned off.

So I think there are some bigger problems even outside the game itself that bode poorly for the franchise's future.

All of the points you make are valid, but on almost all counts I disagree with them (apart from the ending). Coming to a consensus when people at opposite ends of the spectrum are so passionate about their argument is near enough impossible. The only thing I'm willing to bet is that when the next Mass Effect gets released, all the people who said they would boycott the series after finishing Mass Effect 3 will buy it.

Neither of us are wrong in this debate, but finding a universal opinion on such a diverse argument just isn't going to happen.

Who knows, this new Summer DLC might FIX EVERYTHING. =P

Here's hoping it does!

#36 Posted by CounterShock (420 posts) -

I want more games in the universe, but as of now, I don't know if that would be possible.

#37 Posted by Deathmachine117 (377 posts) -

No way, The universe is one of the most rich and indepth gaming worlds ever created I think. Putting it away after just three games would be unwise.

#38 Posted by IBurningStar (2164 posts) -

I no longer have any interest in the ME universe. I've accepted my disappointment with ME3 and I don't care about anything ME related anymore.

#39 Edited by Grixxel (765 posts) -

Nah, the universe is ripe for more. The whole reaper shit we can leave behind for sure.

#40 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

It is for me, irregardless.

#41 Posted by tsiro (214 posts) -

@boj4ngles: I guess that's a fair point, though I guess I've just had a different experience. I've enjoyed everything that I've seen thus far (I haven't beaten the game yet, I'd guess that I'm somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 complete). Though I guess I can agree, to an extent -- I'd rather that this Mass Effect's last hurrah if any subsequent releases are even worse/complete cash-ins.

Though, who am I kidding -- I'd totally buy the "next" Mass Effect game, because I'm a chump.

#42 Posted by Quarters (1679 posts) -

Nah, I'd like to see what else they come up with. ME has great potential as a big universe supporting multiple things. I want to see what they do next.

#43 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -

They kinda fucked any games set post-ME3 with the ME3 ending. Before ME3, I would've said sure, spin it out into a strategy game or something, but at this point I think they should just move on.

#44 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@tsiro said:

@boj4ngles: I guess that's a fair point, though I guess I've just had a different experience. I've enjoyed everything that I've seen thus far (I haven't beaten the game yet, I'd guess that I'm somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 complete). Though I guess I can agree, to an extent -- I'd rather that this Mass Effect's last hurrah if any subsequent releases are even worse/complete cash-ins.

Though, who am I kidding -- I'd totally buy the "next" Mass Effect game, because I'm a chump.

I suspect that you might have a different opinion by the time you finish the game. A more negative one.

#45 Edited by zombie_bigdaddy (131 posts) -

@boj4ngles said:

As much as I hate to think about it, this seems like a question that fans of the series should contemplate.

Most of the writing team from the original ME1 has left Bioware, and we've seen what the new generation is capable of. EA seems to be the one calling the shots regarding development cycles and that seems to have had a very detrimental impact on the final product. After DA2 and now ME3, I just don't get the feeling that Bioware is capable of handling a complex IP that requires attention to detail and consistent quality of writing.

Finally, the state of the IP's cannon is a shambles after ME3's ending, and seems to be un-salvageable. I used to think that the Mass Effect universe was the perfect set up for an MMORPG, squad RTS, or any number of game types. Now it's like, what's the point? If the developer is not going to take their own fiction seriously, why should anyone else?

Well if they plan to keep stripping away what made ME unique (like dialogue choices), then yes, they should end it before it becomes the next Star Wars.

#46 Posted by sthusby (382 posts) -

Still to much to witness. How about letting me see a female Turian or a female Drell? And how about actually making Turians more diverse than just a different color palate? I want to see more of the "local" areas. Like a normal street on Palavan or the Hanar homeworld.

#47 Posted by Chaoskiller2000 (306 posts) -

Honestly I would like to see them wait at least 3 years for another to come out. I think there needs to be a break that gives a lot of time to think about where to take it next and make the next game epic! It also allows technology to get better too!

#48 Posted by tsiro (214 posts) -

@boj4ngles said:

I suspect that you might have a different opinion by the time you finish the game. A more negative one.

But thankfully a bad ending doesn't mean that the other 150+ hours that I've spent in the Mass Effect universe were any less fun or meaningful. But we'll see! I'm planning on finishing (or at least getting much closer to the end) tonight.

#49 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

I want more Mass Effect.

#50 Posted by dogman795 (109 posts) -

At this point, i wouldn't be surprised if they release 3 separate games, one for each ending. Like, buy this one if you destroyed the reapers, this one if you did this, that one if you did that.

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