Vanguards on gold matches getting players butthurt?

#1 Edited by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

Went on to play some MP tonight. Leveling my Drell vanguard, currently at 19. Quick match is set for random everything. Every single time it throws me in a gold lobby I get booted. Lame. The very last time some guy gets on his mic just to tell me "The reason why I'm leaving this room is... Vanguards in Gold." He leaves and I promptly get booted. Now I'm not a total noob, I can see why you might not want a Vanguard ping ponging all over the map in gold, but christ, I know how to play the game. I've played gold matches with my other characters. I understand the strategy is pretty much park your ass someplace, let the guy throw out his decoy and try not to die. No reason for the butthurt. Any of you have similar issues?

#2 Posted by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

I wouldn't call that butthurt. If they prefer not to play with a Vanguard, fine. Just create your own match.

#3 Edited by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

I'm fine with getting booted. I'm curious though if this is the reason why this particular character is getting booted more often then the rest. And i guess really it's only the guy who made a point to storm out of the room who's butthurt

#4 Posted by innacces14 (737 posts) -

@acarab1981: BraveToaster kind of has a point about not calling it butthurt. It's just that the Drell Adept is so misinterpreted as to what it's job is really all about. Most Drell Vanguard users, and Vanguards in general tackle larger targets like Banshees, Ravagers, and Brutes only to get put down by their one hit kill animation (acid in the Ravager's case).

How I play the class is simply for crowd harassment. The Drell lacks nova, but in it's place I use Weapon Synergy (Biotic Charge Rank 5) in order to kill the lowly targets with a Scimitar (damage output becomes on par with the Eviscerator thanks to Weapon Synergy). Add the dodge animation to the Drell's repertoire the pattern becomes obvious; 1. Biotic Charge (rank 4's radius stuns everyone within 2 meters, 2. Shoot (specifically those that are stun, or go for the shielded target while the grunts are in their animation), and 3. Dodge the fuck outta there before they eat your barrier's.

Gold play becomes kind of hard for the Drell since regular grunts get replaced by their shielded betters making Vanguards a liability. That said, it's more of an issue of players not holding their breaths to see if you know how to play your Vanguard or not.

#5 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3906 posts) -

I would have kicked you as well, mainly because you were not the host, and vanguards frequently glitch when they biotic charge. Wouldn't have made a rude comment, but I keep my voice chat on friends only anyway.

#6 Posted by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac: This is true, and a valid reason to get booted.

@innacces14: This is pretty much how I play the Drell Vanguard specifically. He's set with an assault rifle and grenades are maxed. I'd obviously have to adjust for gold play, saving the charge for closer targets as opposed to zipping around.

#7 Posted by onan (1286 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac said:

I would have kicked you as well, mainly because you were not the host, and vanguards frequently glitch when they biotic charge. Wouldn't have made a rude comment, but I keep my voice chat on friends only anyway.

Yeah, also doesn't help that drells are incredibly fragile with only 250/250. On Gold that means pretty much everything is a one-hit kill, and when you roll with randoms you've got to expect the worst, which is someone who doesn't know what he's doing and becomes a massive liability you need to go save constantly, or will glitch out of the game, leaving you 3 people to manage Gold, and chances are you're all going to spend 30 minutes and potentially lose right near the end.

Drell Vanguard almost seems like an oxymoron. The term "glass cannon" is pretty common in games, but the Drell Vanguard is a glass cannonball, and that's not a good thing.

#8 Posted by TheHT (11773 posts) -

That's a shame. Drell Vanguard is easily the most fun class to play as.

a) grenade one group

b) pull another group

c) charge another group

d) drell-fu/shotgun

e) cartwheel to safety

f) find new targets

g) go to a)

Gets them juices flowing. Since you're not quite the beast human vanguard can be, you've got to always be aware of the situation, and if shit's getting out of your control jump straight to e). But you're so fucking fast, it's so much goddamn fun.

Maybe just stick with that class on lower difficulty tiers if it's such a frequent issue?

Online
#9 Edited by Cataphract1014 (1312 posts) -

A vanguard has to be really good in Gold to not me a determent to the team.  Most players are not good enough.
 
They are paired with with a biotic for explosions on their charge though.

#10 Posted by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

@TheHT: It's true, I'm having a lot of fun playing it. You pretty much have to hit and run, unlike the human which is hit and hit. I mostly play on bronze quickmatch but I never pass up a gold for the XP and credits. I'm feeling like vanguards in general get a bad rap, mostly due to guys rushing in headlong. It's a tough class to play as but I think I'm doing pretty good.

#11 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8606 posts) -
@BraveToaster: I got booted out of my own lobby as a Krogan Vanguard two nights ago. >.>
 
That said though, most people don't realize how powerful Vanguard's (especially Krogan Vanguard) can be when it comes to soaking up damage and stunlocking enemies.
Feels cliched to say but I'm always first or second on the scoreboard, wielding a Katana X and meleeing the crap out of everything that comes close to the tech/adept/snipers.
 
I'd say charging around like a madman as bronze and silver alone is hard(er) to pull off in Gold, charging into a group of 3 enemies can get you ganged very quickly if they all decide to melee (Yo cerberus!) you.
Best tactic is to protect the weaker classes, soak up bullets when Phantom's or Prime's approach and have clear shots on them, mop up some stragglers or rushing foot soldiers and overal try to play as a Tank.
 
I'm wielding the Katana X for decent damage and a small cooldown, allowing me to soak up damage and recharge my barrier quickly by charging as soon as it goes down.
 
That and I beat everything the fuck up, but that's why I love Krogan's <3
#12 Posted by phampire (289 posts) -

Vanguards in general have a bad rep for being overly aggressive, careless, lone wolf type players. On top of that they are one of the hardest classes to play properly and are likely to die first and therefore compromise the team. For instance I personally dislike it when vanguards don't stay inside the data upload circle and instead they adopt a "one man army" mentality and die in terrible position. I've done gold a bunch of times but never successfully with any vanguard(s). I have seen some decent vanguards on silver and bronze though. That being said I still occasionally witness a lvl 20 vanguard die on the FIRST WAVE, even on bronze and silver. I think vanguard on gold might work but it would require a degree of team work, voice chat, co-ordination and/or luck. In short, people don't wanna waste 20+ mins on gold with vanguards. Maybe try convincing them in the lobby or play with people you know.

#13 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

Players are just tired of reviving dead vanguards.

#14 Posted by Brodehouse (10128 posts) -

How tough is gold, exactly? I wonder if I'm ready and equipped to go up from silver. I still find Reapers on silver to be a stiff challenge though, cerberus relatively easy and geth are containable, should I even waste people's time trying gold?

#15 Posted by mordukai (7185 posts) -

Bottom line is that Vanguards are that well suited for Gold.

#16 Posted by MEATBALL (3470 posts) -

Neckbeards get way too angry about Vanguards.

#17 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8606 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:
How tough is gold, exactly? I wonder if I'm ready and equipped to go up from silver. I still find Reapers on silver to be a stiff challenge though, cerberus relatively easy and geth are containable, should I even waste people's time trying gold?
Depends on your preferred class and items.
Using a support class like Adept or Engineer can be great to start with as the focus of the class is their powers, not weapons.
Once you got some good guns (Geth shotgun, Widow, etc) you can start trying stuff like Sentinel's or Infiltrators.
I don't like the difference between the weapons however, if I play Adept I can sleepwalk through gold with a decent team, a infiltrator will have to have a decent gun (and aim, I guess) to inflict the same level of damage as a Adept can do right out of the box.
 
Teamwork though, or in general fighting together and not trying to solo, is the most important aspect of gold matches.
#18 Posted by big_jon (5782 posts) -

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

#19 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3906 posts) -

@big_jon said:

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

Agreed. Same with "white knighting," "dudebro," and any other terms that make you sound like a tool. No offence to the OP.

#20 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@SpaceInsomniac said:

@big_jon said:

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

Agreed. Same with "white knighting," "dudebro," and any other terms that make you sound like a tool. No offence to the OP.

I can not recall the last time I heard someone use the word " Butthurt" 
#21 Posted by Trilogy (2687 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@big_jon said:

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

Agreed. Same with "white knighting," "dudebro," and any other terms that make you sound like a tool. No offence to the OP.

I can not recall the last time I heard someone use the word " Butthurt"

I would make a joke about how you must be new to the internet but I know you aren't so, therefore, you must be really good at avoiding the shitty parts of the internet.

#22 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Trilogy said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@big_jon said:

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

Agreed. Same with "white knighting," "dudebro," and any other terms that make you sound like a tool. No offence to the OP.

I can not recall the last time I heard someone use the word " Butthurt"

I would make a joke about how you must be new to the internet but I know you aren't so, therefore, you must be really good at avoiding the shitty parts of the internet.

I think its a term thats been worn out. 
#23 Posted by Cronus42 (276 posts) -

Gold is hard as shit, and vanguards don't really fit well with how you have to play: carefully. Maybe a krogan vanguard just because of the mounds of damage you can take, but gold and vanguards usually don't mix well.

#24 Posted by TEHMAXXORZ (1133 posts) -

Vanguards are fine. I'm honestly surprised people that use sniper rifles aren't kicked. They can be far more annoying than vanguards. They cause more 'butt hurt', as you say, than vanguards even. The amount of people that have raged over the mic and then left because of snipers (in games I have played) outweigh, by far, the number that have left because of a vanguard.

Still, it doesn't stop me using a sniper rifle.

#25 Posted by Brendan (8131 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Trilogy said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@SpaceInsomniac said:

@big_jon said:

Butthurt is a term that should not have arrived at Giantbomb, fuck you.

Agreed. Same with "white knighting," "dudebro," and any other terms that make you sound like a tool. No offence to the OP.

I can not recall the last time I heard someone use the word " Butthurt"

I would make a joke about how you must be new to the internet but I know you aren't so, therefore, you must be really good at avoiding the shitty parts of the internet.

I think its a term thats been worn out.

"White knighting" is the worst in these parts. Not a total douche to strangers that don't deserve it? You're clearly just trying to get in their good graces, bro ;)

Online
#26 Posted by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

@TEHMAXXORZ: What's the problem with snipers?

#27 Posted by TEHMAXXORZ (1133 posts) -

@acarab1981: I don't really have much of a problem with snipers, but I've gathered that a lot of people don't like them so much.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that deliberately wait until an opponent is weak enough to be taken down in a single body shot. It's the point whores who annoy me.

#28 Posted by innacces14 (737 posts) -

@TEHMAXXORZ: One of my friends has a cousin who happens to be that guy. Doesn't help that he's kind of a blow-hard and thinks the game's too easy. Well no shit. Going into Bronze with equipment and a widow 7 sure fuckin' plays a part.

Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Engineer player here. Mostly Infiltrator though.

#29 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3906 posts) -

@TEHMAXXORZ said:

@acarab1981: I don't really have much of a problem with snipers, but I've gathered that a lot of people don't like them so much.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that deliberately wait until an opponent is weak enough to be taken down in a single body shot. It's the point whores who annoy me.

If they do that, they only get a handful of points for the assist. Points mean nothing in the game anyway. It's Money that matters.

I just hate point whores because they screw up your defense by running off alone and trying to get all the kills. To make them learn, I just never revive them. If you're a one man army and get knocked down, I'm not putting myself in danger by running across the map and picking you back up.

Usually, by the later rounds they understand this, and end up staying with the rest of my group.

#30 Posted by nohthink (1223 posts) -

Psh whatever. I love my Asari Vanguard and I'm good at it. People shouldn't hate on me or you for picking Vanguard. If they are complaining about it, I just say be better at it. Same rule applies to other games too. If you can't win against Ken in SF4, maybe you should pick Ken too. Or just get better at playing games.

#31 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3906 posts) -

@nohthink said:

Psh whatever. I love my Asari Vanguard and I'm good at it. People shouldn't hate on me or you for picking Vanguard. If they are complaining about it, I just say be better at it. Same rule applies to other games too. If you can't win against Ken in SF4, maybe you should pick Ken too. Or just get better at playing games.

Ken players don't run the risk of glitching out when playing four player co-op, reducing the effectiveness of the squad by a fourth, and making it much harder to win.

#32 Posted by Bass (692 posts) -

For a vanguard to really work on Gold, he needs to be playing with players who get the warp/reave/stasis-bubble up constantly, and he needs to be playing as much cool down buff he can manage. To be honest, the drell/asari vanguard just aren't that great. The drell is just way too fragile to play the role of a vanguard, and the asari come blessed with two great powers charge/stasis, but the combo does not go well together because of the long recharge speed associated with stasis.

A Human vanguard needs teamwork on Gold and, to a lesser extent, on Silver. If he is not constantly detonating biotic explosions with charge/nova combo, he is guaranteed to be dead and a detriment to the team. He'll still be dead at some point regardless, but he should be causing so much damage that you won't mind reviving him a few times to make up for it. The biggest issue with vanguards is that they cannot play against reaper boss characters since two of them have 1-hit kill moves that come out incredibly quickly.

Vanguard's can indeed be quite dangerous, and a great help to the team. However, it requires teamwork, and that's the key. If you go into a random lobby, you aren't going to get teamwork. You're going to get 4 people that lone-wolf and look out for their own. If they aren't a biotic, you're screwed. If they are a biotic, they probably aren't looking to set you up for biotic explosions.

TL;DR Human Vanguards have to be good, have a good build (read: not specced in shockwave) and on a coordinated team to be successful on Gold. Other vanguards (haven't been able to test the krogan) are not viable. I can't blame people for kicking a vanguard because they usually are giant sacks of uselessness.

#33 Edited by Akyho (1698 posts) -

I play infiltrator usually. So i have cloak. Thusly.....I am the only person able to brave 4 large enemies and 8 minions to revive you when you go down in awkward places. Be it a mile away or just round the corner. When I revive....my cloak switches off because it was an action....Now i run/die and is stuck in a bad place...with more than likely the dead body of the vanguard I just revived.

I now have a policy to do a mental check of "Was that person's skills worthy of my rescue." Vanguard is pretty much a no. Then it depends on what ever the hell the person was doing.

Some wise ass Vanguards have ran from cover to take out the High value target. Only to die....except they have ruined us since the HVT is now hiding behind a box a mile away and wont move towards us. While we need to fight through 4 large enemies and survive. Before we can think about the HVT which is... a large enemy. So while I and one other Infiltrator could maby just take out the target if it was a normal sized enemy shields and all. Large. NOOOOOOOOPE dead and the time runs out.

Krogan Vanguard sure maby I will give him a go. Drell? nooooooooope/

Just say no to Vanguard Gold.

I dont know this problem with snipers. I have been kicked a few time and I am a lvl 20 Qurian Infiltrator doing the whitebase geth run. And get replies such as "Your a Qurian? and useing the Mantis!? kicked!" Thing is...if you are in a lobby set up for Geth and whitebase....Qurian is kinda usefull. No super important. Engineer Decoy is. However When 3 geth primes are on top of you it can save a missile or two with crowd confusion. If anyone complains about kill stealing. Hardly. I get more kills stolen by being Quarian except make it up in assists and kills made by the hacked geth. Which if the bottom line is...helpful to everyone completing it and getting the uber points than the small individual.

#34 Posted by acarab1981 (32 posts) -

I feel like it's up to the player to play the class in a way that doesn't get everybody killed. People shouldn't make generalizations based on class or race. I've done gold runs. I've done white/geth runs with my engineer. Pretty much anybody can contribute in that scenario if they know what they're doing. If you have a mic, instead of using it to cry about who's joining the lobby use it to communicate. Find out if the guy knows what he's doing, or better use it to, ya know, talk about strategy in game, make sure everybody is on the same page. With that said if you don't like who you're playing with your free to leave or kick, just don't be a douche about it.

#35 Posted by 815Sox (72 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac said:

I would have kicked you as well, mainly because you were not the host, and vanguards frequently glitch when they biotic charge. Wouldn't have made a rude comment, but I keep my voice chat on friends only anyway.

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