Which ending is paragon, and which is renegade? - POLL (spoilers)

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#1 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3671 posts) -
#2 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3671 posts) -

All through the damn game, every paragon choice tells you that the reapers must be destroyed, and that an attempt to control them would be like playing God or something.  Then when it's time to make your choice, control is bathed in blue light, and destroy is colored in red. 
 
Wait, what?  I have to sacrifice myself to control the reapers, and it's not even suggested what I'd DO with the reapers once they're under my control?  Am I going to be a super jerk and use them to become a god that destroys all who oppose me, or am I going to use them to perform enormous space puppet shows for sick children? 
 
What's going on here!?  I loved Mass Effect 3, but I have to admit the endings almost go out of their way to be completely vague and provide absolutely no closure.  Ugh.

#3 Posted by Gatehouse (610 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac: Exactly the same thoughts I had. Hell, they even show the Illusive Man and Anderson making their choice, but Bioware love their colour coding. It makes some sense though, with the Control and Synthesis endings, no-one else dies but you.

#4 Posted by project343 (2818 posts) -

Because are voting because of coloured tint to each selection? And not the fact that the Illusive Man represents control and Anderson represents destroy?

Either way, I think synthesis is the only option that doesn't make you look like a complete jerk.

#5 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Surely synthesis also means you're playing god to some extent.

Actually I'm not even going to discuss these shit sandwich endings.

#6 Posted by StarvingGamer (8156 posts) -

Control is Paragon, Destroy is Renegade, Synthesis is either Renegade or neither.
Control - Shepard takes control of the Reapers and removes them from the equation. He leaves all the other races to their own devices telling them he trusts them to figure it out.
Destroy - Shepard passes a final judgment on all synthetic life either A) because he doesn't believe a true peace can ever exist or B) to give himself a chance for a prolonged existence.
Synthesis - Shepard, simultaneously not wanting to kill anyone and also not trusting anyone to get it right on their own, basically mutates the entire galaxy in the hopes of creating a homogenized utopia.

#7 Posted by megaadair (6 posts) -

Synthesis is paragon in my opinion, with the other 2 being more or less the renegade options.

Everyone's part tech, but they're all alive and seeming to maintain free-will. Plus Joker and EDI can ge some.

Control is the lesser of the other two evils depending on whether you had a paragon or renegade shepard.

Destroy is naughty, cause you destroy all artificial life as well as leaving the galaxy screwed. That's just mean, and joker will never get any.

#8 Posted by BrowncoatGrimm (89 posts) -

If you destroy all AI life you're committing genocide with the Geth and your kill EDI, that's majorly renegade. If you take control then sure, you could be a bad guy, but that isn't what it implies. Besides you don't really "control" them in the strictest sense, you become come them. The synthesis is also a paragon choice but frankly you're imposing a new form of life on an entire galaxy that they might not want so, for me, control is the only pure paragon option. The only person that suffers is Shepard. If the Geth and EDI didn't die in the destruction option this would be more ambiguous, but the potential erasure of an entire civilisation really colours the choice.

#9 Posted by BrowncoatGrimm (89 posts) -

The fact we're even having this discussion is perhaps a good thing, this is far more interesting than if the choices at the end of the game were black and white. I took a long time thinking over my decision.

#10 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

I like that all the poll options are wrong.

#11 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

Let's review some details before who get into this whole "which color is which" debate, shall we?

- Destroy is perceived as Renegade by most people because it is bathed in Red (the usual color of Renegade), yet Anderson (who is always been known as a Paragon) is the one shown shooting at the cable.

- Control is perceived as Paragon by most people because it is bathed in Blue (the usual color of Paragon), yet TIM (who is always been known as a Renegade) is the one shown grabbing the conduits in an attempt to control the Reapers.

- Synthesis is perceived to many as the "True" or "Good" ending by many, partially because it requires a lot of assets to unlock. However, this is the choice that Saren and the Reapers wanted from the beginning, and even the Catalyst swears is the only option for true peace.

Now with that being said, let's also take a few other things into account. Did anyone else notice that the Advanced AI known as "Catalyst" took the form of the small child that died at the beginning? The same child that has been haunting Shepard throughout the game. It's a form of manipulation. Also listen to the way that the Catalyst describes the Destruction option in such a harsh light, while making the Control and Synthesis options much more favorable. It's self preservation. If you destroy all Synthetic life, you destroy the Reapers, The Catalyst, the Geth, etc. You effectively complete the mission you originally set out (and many have sacrificed their lives for) to do, at the cost of ALL Synthetic life, unfortunately. Although it hurts to know that EDI and the Geth will be gone, the Catalyst even mentioned that future generations will just create Synthetics again. This time around, however, there will be no worry of the Catalyst or Reapers trying to "harvest" all advanced life. The galaxy has survived for a very long time before Mass Relays and Synthetic life before, and it can certainly do it again. There is also the chance that Shepard lives.

As bad ass as Dudeshep/Femshep may be, does anyone honestly believe that he/she can keep control of the Reapers? Even the Catalyst asks you from the beginning "do you think you can control us?" By making this choice you only bought the galaxy a temporary reprieve from the Reaper threat. It's only a matter of time before that control is lost and the Catalyst forces the Reapers to continue the cycle. Shepard also sacrifices his/her life to do so.

Synthesis is a clever option that the Catalyst gives you. It makes you believe that it will bring peace to the galaxy. Just because everything is an Organic/Synthetic hybrid, doesn't mean that all hate has been wiped out. Nobody knows what the future hold, but the past has always taught as that there will always be war and chaos. You essentially hand the Catalyst, Reapers, and Saren what they want on a silver platter by choosing this option. Remember how Sovereign even points out that other Synthetics are inferior. Who is to say that the Reapers won't try to control these new hybrids in order to "control the chaos"? You also decide that the whole galaxy would be this way. I'm pretty sure not everyone wants to be part Synthetic. You rewrite everyone's DNA without their consent or even knowledge. Shepard also sacrifices his/her life to do so.

NONE of the endings guarantee everlasting peace, but only one option does guarantee to remove a constant threat from the equation. By choosing Destruction you get rid of the main problem. Now I know some of you may say "Well you're still playing God by choosing to kill all Synthetic life without their consent or knowledge..." You're right, to a certain degree. The difference is that Synthetic life can be replicated, while different alien species can not be.

#12 Posted by Natesaint (148 posts) -

The fact that these endings are causing so much discussion is what Bioware intended, and may mean they are merely controversial and not shitty. I blew up the Reapers due to The Catalyst seeming like he was manipulative, also out of greed to keep my life. Didn't work, but I tried.

#13 Posted by briangodsoe (487 posts) -

Oh man, another ending thread. I can't get enough of these. Seriously. Keep em coming duders.

#14 Posted by jaymorgoth (242 posts) -

Forgive me but I still don't understand this because when it got to the point for me to make a choice destroy was blue and control was red. Did I miss something?

#15 Posted by Ocean_H (290 posts) -

@LordXavierBritish said:

I like that all the poll options are wrong.

^This.

#16 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3671 posts) -
@Natesaint said:

The fact that these endings are causing so much discussion is what Bioware intended, and may mean they are merely controversial and not shitty.

Oh no, they're definitely shitty.  Any ending to a "trilogy" that comes out of absolutely nowhere, and offers almost no closure is absolutely shitty.  They can be both controversial and shitty.  I would have rather Shepard and half the crew died, it if could have meant that I actually knew what the hell happened after your decision. 
 
The entire thing is a setup for either Mass Effect 4, or some sort of DLC add on.  The lead developer has even suggested as much, with a vaguely worded "if you only knew what we're planing for the series..." type Tweet.  This was a TRILOGY, and it ends with almost no sense of accomplishment, and no clear explanation of what your decision will mean for the universe.  And after all that, you're thrown back into the game at a point before you went after the Cerberus base, and you get a message telling you to buy the DLC.  That really is pretty fucking disgraceful.  
 
@jaymorgoth said:

Forgive me but I still don't understand this because when it got to the point for me to make a choice destroy was blue and control was red. Did I miss something?

I'm pretty sure you're just wrong.  Go look the endings up on You Tube.  Destroy is red, control is blue.  If you can find otherwise, please let us know.
#17 Posted by SketchPanic (55 posts) -

@SpaceInsomniac: It didn't come out of nowhere, considering the Citadel has been the focal point of the Reapers since ME1. Also there was closure in the sense that I explained in the post above that nobody seems to have read. The Catalyst even told you what would happen based on each decision. Just because you don't know what the future holds, doesn't mean that there wasn't an end to the current conflict. The entire thing wasn't a setup for Mass Effect 4, or some DLC add on. Just because they are continuing it, as they stated before even ME3, doesn't mean that's the ONLY reason they made it end that way. The sense of accomplishment was knowing that no matter what you chose, that you (at least for a time) have stopped the Reaper threat. Also ME2 threw you to the point before the Collector Base, but nobody seemed to have an issue with that.

#18 Posted by gregjay24 (31 posts) -

the paragon choice is destroy.

synthesis and control are renegade. if i remember correctly the two most renegade people in the series (Illusive Man and Saren) idealized both of those outcomes. Saren says that his upgrades are where the human race is headed. Illusive Man believes control is the best. Clearly the reaper controller AI is trying to preserve its life by presenting the options as such

#19 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -
@LordXavierBritish
I like that all the poll options are wrong.
Yep.
#20 Posted by Irvandus (2877 posts) -

I'm a theorist believer so Sythesis and Control are renegade. To put in context Synthesis is what Saren wanted.

Online
#21 Posted by Sackmanjones (4688 posts) -

This is a main piece of evidence for the indoctrination theory

#22 Posted by BrowncoatGrimm (89 posts) -

I'm sorry, the idea that it's not renegade to commit genocide on an entire form of life is ridiculous given you're presented with a peaceful option.

The reapers were an enemy to fight, and as such they must be destroyed, but as with all things the context changed and what once was considered the bad choice can twist. The illusive man trying to control the reapers would never have worked and his own hubris destroyed him; however their creator was offering control.

That's completely different.

Taking control ends the war without firing a single shot and creates peace without having to destroy anyone, even the reapers are a unique form of life that are merely subjugated by their own programming and doomed to repeat this cycle for eternity.

#23 Posted by CaptainCharisma (339 posts) -

I just want to know why when you do the control ending, someone in N7 armor (that is not charred like Shepard's at the end) is shown breathing.

#24 Edited by CatsAkimbo (618 posts) -

@Irvandus said:

I'm a theorist believer so Sythesis and Control are renegade. To put in context Synthesis is what Saren wanted.

I agree that Synthesis and Control are renegade because both of them essentially give Shepard godlike powers to manipulate the universe how he/she sees fit. By destroying the reapers, shepard is trying to just get things back to how they were before anyone knew about the reapers, and not subjugating anyone by controlling the reapers or playing god by creating some new race thing.

#25 Posted by Potts (159 posts) -

Destroy is the only Paragon choice.

The other two options allow the reapers to live on, in one way or another.

That, and the starchild lies to you - says the destroy option will kill Shepard, when that is the only option that will allow Shepard to live. So why should it be inferred that he is telling the truth about the Geth & EDI, or that anything he says is true?

#26 Edited by IAmNotBatman (634 posts) -

@LordXavierBritish said:

I like that all the poll options are wrong.

I feel this way about every poll, ever.

#27 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

I honestly don't think Destroy is Renegade. Just because the Catalyst sugar-coats the other options doesn't mean that the universe will be filled with rainbows and shit. The Catalyst has been manipulating people for centuries, maybe even millenia, what makes anyone think that it suddenly had a change of heart and wanted to steer Shepard in the right direction? The Reapers would not magically deviate from their purpose. Synthesis sounds fine and dandy, but you end up looking like you have The Illusive Man-type upgrades, which rubs me the wrong way. I think a synthesis would have some sort of weakness to the will of the Catalyst, giving everyone the illusion that they were free.

The Illusive Man was being manipulated the entire series. He thought the more he changed his body, the more likely he would be able to control the Reapers. Shepard isn't as fully-integrated with Reaper technology as TIM, which probably means that Shepard had a high resistance to manipulation. The Catalyst states that TIM wasn't strong enough to control the Reapers, but Shepard is; it sounded as if it were stroking Shepard's ego.

Some of the characters in the game throw hints throughout the game. I think that it was Garrus who stated that the Reapers are so efficient because they are merciless. Characters like Moridin sacrifice they're lives so the Reapers can be destroyed. I'm not going to suddenly have a change of heart and play nice just because the Catalyst assumes the guise of a small child.

#28 Edited by megalowho (965 posts) -

Doesn't matter, galactic dark age no matter what you pick. Just because they are color coded options doesn't really signify a paragon/renegade consequence at that point.

#29 Posted by HistoryInRust (6293 posts) -

The ending where you convince Saren to destroy himself and save the Council is the Paragon ending.  
 
Wait, what? They only made one Mass Effect game. What are you guys talking about?

#30 Posted by OmegaChosen (644 posts) -

They're all renegade.

#31 Posted by Red (5995 posts) -

According to the coloring in the game, I believe Control is Paragon, Synthesis is hippie, and destroy is renegade.

That being said, I'm a follower of the Indoctrination theory, so Destroy is really the only ending.

#32 Posted by Klei (1768 posts) -

Well, to me, Destroy is the right ending. Your goal, since the very beginning, is to destroy the Reapers. Everybody followed you for that very, single goal. To get rid of those life-exterminating beings. By destroying them, you rid the galaxy of this imminent threat, allowing it to rebuild. Mass Relays may be destroyed, but in due time, they will be rebuilt by scientists who unraveled their secrets.

And really, are Mass Relays all that important? To me, not really. It's not key to anybody's survival.

So I stand by my opinion. Destroying the reapers is the right thing to do. It's what everybody set off to do right off the bat anyways.

#33 Posted by CornishRocker (397 posts) -

Going to say D. I don't think the normal rules behind choices in Mass Effect games apply to these ones.

#34 Posted by Brodehouse (9887 posts) -

"I'm a good guy, and I picked destroy, so that's the good choice!"

Terrifying.

#35 Posted by Ocean_H (290 posts) -

According to the Prima official guide, the top choices (with at least 4000+ and 5000+ EMS) are all about Destroy. So Destroy is the best ending.

#36 Posted by huntad (1931 posts) -

@briangodsoe said:

Oh man, another ending thread. I can't get enough of these. Seriously. Keep em coming duders.

Haha!

#37 Posted by SoleVillain (40 posts) -

I don't think there are paragon or renegade endings. Shepards mission was always the same. Paragon and renegade refer to his methods used to accomplish his mission.

#38 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

I'd say synthesis is the most good followed by destroy but control is kind of evil.

#39 Posted by Cataphract1014 (1313 posts) -

@Irvandus said:

I'm a theorist believer so Sythesis and Control are renegade. To put in context Synthesis is what Saren wanted.

This is how I feel. Bioware swapped the colors to trick the player.

#40 Posted by Harkat (1102 posts) -

@Gatehouse said:

@SpaceInsomniac: Exactly the same thoughts I had. Hell, they even show the Illusive Man and Anderson making their choice, but Bioware love their colour coding. It makes some sense though, with the Control and Synthesis endings, no-one else dies but you.

I'm not sure about that, duder. If you destroy all synthetics, which according to Space-God-Child will remove "technology you depend on", wouldn't that kill everyone in the galaxy aboard a space station or space vessel, or hell, everyone dependent on a life-support machine?

So, pretty much the entire Quarian race, EDI and everyone having dogfights in the background. Lol wat?

#41 Posted by Gatehouse (610 posts) -

@Harkat said:

@Gatehouse said:

@SpaceInsomniac: Exactly the same thoughts I had. Hell, they even show the Illusive Man and Anderson making their choice, but Bioware love their colour coding. It makes some sense though, with the Control and Synthesis endings, no-one else dies but you.

I'm not sure about that, duder. If you destroy all synthetics, which according to Space-God-Child will remove "technology you depend on", wouldn't that kill everyone in the galaxy aboard a space station or space vessel, or hell, everyone dependent on a life-support machine?

So, pretty much the entire Quarian race, EDI and everyone having dogfights in the background. Lol wat?

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. But does 'synthetics' mean synthetic lifeforms (as in the Geth and EDI) or simply machine-type things as a whole? I honestly don't have a clue. But, if you're right, then my Shepard became a bigger murderer than the whole of the Reaper forces.

#42 Posted by TEHMAXXORZ (1199 posts) -

Your options are kind of coloured similarly to your Paragon/Renegade meter, so it makes sense that the light blue ones (synthesis and control) are paragon and that destroy is renegade.

#43 Posted by JackG100 (405 posts) -

All of the endings are renegade-endings put there by bioware CEOs

#44 Posted by iFail (236 posts) -

@Gatehouse: Bioware is one of those devs that's pretty much "What's science again?"

I'm so fucking sick of them getting everything wrong. Of course those assholes had to use synthetics to refer to robots because that makes sense in weird Bioware-land where holograms have substance and can zap people.

#45 Posted by LovesJapanManga (2 posts) -

Quick question: I know that Red Ending represents Earth being destroyed, right? So, that means the Blue Ending represents organics and synthesis being controlled (Am I wrong on that one???) Lastly, also - Green Ending represents what? I just finished the game and I got "Green" Ending...

#46 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
@LovesJapanManga said:

Quick question: I know that Red Ending represents Earth being destroyed, right? So, that means the Blue Ending represents organics and synthesis being controlled (Am I wrong on that one???) Lastly, also - Green Ending represents what? I just finished the game and I got "Green" Ending...

Not quite. Red has you destroy all synthetics, blue has you control the reapers, and green has you mix synthetic and organics on a dna level some how. nope, noooothing creepy about poking around people's DNA without their okay... 
 
Earth being destroyed or not ties more into how high your EMS is, regardless of which of the three endings you choose. Mind there is the question of if what we were told in the Arial still holds true, and the destruction of a mass relay obliterates the system it's in.
#47 Posted by LovesJapanManga (2 posts) -

Renachan, thank you for clearing that up for me. So, no exciting stuff popping up in New Game Plus??? I know we will be getting more single player campaigns via DLCs. After I beat it, it simply returns me to the final point. Nothing out there to continue explore more?

#48 Posted by Xanadu (345 posts) -

@Cataphract1014 said:

@Irvandus said:

I'm a theorist believer so Sythesis and Control are renegade. To put in context Synthesis is what Saren wanted.

This is how I feel. Bioware swapped the colors to trick the player.

Syntehsis is what Saren wanted but he was under heavy indoctrination and was only used as a pawn from the very beginning by the reapers. If we are not going by alternate theories, we could say that Sythesis is the best paragon ending. This is because the "sacrifice" causes Shepards life and morality to merge with the catalyst creating a new form of life to spread across the galaxy while all mass relays are destroyed. If you played a total paragon imported character and spent the time to create peace between all alien races INCLUDING helping all geth evolve to true AI while at the same time, ending their war with the Quarians. Also, if you supported EDI's relationship with Joker, the only thing I cloud ask you is: How could killing any of these races (organics and synthetics) be anything but a renegade option? If you did play this route you might have noticed Shepard spends almost all of his time trying to get different species to understand each other. In his final act, through Sythesis, he can save everyone including the reapers, creating a single conscious of understanding for one another. That is the true essence of peace to me.

The real and truest point here is that Bioware just made a bad ending that is too similar through out the multiple endings. I chose Sythesis at the ended and due to my reasoning stated above, I do like this ending but I couldn't help but feel short changed by the ending. Seems like a good way to make people buy DLC doesn't it?

#49 Posted by Cataphract1014 (1313 posts) -

@Xanadu said:

@Cataphract1014 said:

@Irvandus said:

I'm a theorist believer so Sythesis and Control are renegade. To put in context Synthesis is what Saren wanted.

This is how I feel. Bioware swapped the colors to trick the player.

Syntehsis is what Saren wanted but he was under heavy indoctrination and was only used as a pawn from the very beginning by the reapers. If we are not going by alternate theories, we could say that Sythesis is the best paragon ending. This is because the "sacrifice" causes Shepards life and morality to merge with the catalyst creating a new form of life to spread across the galaxy while all mass relays are destroyed. If you played a total paragon imported character and spent the time to create peace between all alien races INCLUDING helping all geth evolve to true AI while at the same time, ending their war with the Quarians. Also, if you supported EDI's relationship with Joker, the only thing I cloud ask you is: How could killing any of these races (organics and synthetics) be anything but a renegade option? If you did play this route you might have noticed Shepard spends almost all of his time trying to get different species to understand each other. In his final act, through Sythesis, he can save everyone including the reapers, creating a single conscious of understanding for one another. That is the true essence of peace to me.

The real and truest point here is that Bioware just made a bad ending that is too similar through out the multiple endings. I chose Sythesis at the ended and due to my reasoning stated above, I do like this ending but I couldn't help but feel short changed by the ending. Seems like a good way to make people buy DLC doesn't it?

The kid says it will kill all synthetics, but how do you know he isn't lying? I think the kid is actually harbinger. Why else would it look like some dead kill from earth? He doesn't want shepard to kill the reapers, so he makes it sound like a terrible choice. If you remember, he makes it sound like it will kill Shepard too because of all the Cybernetics he has in him, but at the end you see the N7 armor move and hear a gasp. So clearly he wasn't telling the truth, why would he not lie to get Shepard to shy away from the Reapers.

With synthesis he tells Shepard that he will be sacrificing himself so that everyone will live happily ever after.

With control he tells Shepard he will die, but he will have control of the reapers.

With destruction he tells Shepard the reapers will die, the geth will die, and he will die.

He makes the other two sound more appealing. The VI tells you that every cycle the resistance is done in because a faction wants to control the reapers. Why would that suddenly be the "good" choice? And the reapers are already doing "synthesis". Husks, Marauders, Cannibals, Saren, Banshees. They already melded synthetics and organics. Harbinger is trying to trick you.

#50 Edited by benspyda (2033 posts) -

Well considering there was a blue and a red option, I assumed synthesis was neutral. ME universe led me to believe blue is paragon and red in renegade so destroy is paragon and control is renegade.

All I know is I picked blue, and there were explosions.

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