Listening to the Bombcast...

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#1 Edited by ds8k (412 posts) -

...and I can't agree with the guys at all. I played through the entire game on PC on Hard and never had an issue with it. I played it like a Max Payne game - no cover, always be shootdodging. Because I went for headshots 100% of the time I never experienced the bullet-sponge stuff Vinny mentioned.

Vinny talking about how the game was preventing him from having fun makes me question whether he remembers the original games - they weren't a fucking joke with difficulty. If you jumped into a group of guys you'd get wasted immediately.

#2 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

I'm waiting for a price drop this holiday season before I dabble, but from everything I've heard/seen the game seems to be judged more on how much it is like the older games, than on the merit of the game itself. I hear more and more of "its not like" "you cant ___ like in ____" etc. I really think people need to take of those rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's.

#3 Edited by DharmaBum (1060 posts) -

Many people seem to be confusing it for just another cover-based shooter, and the game will rightfully punish you for playing it as such. You really have to shootdodge your way through to experience how overly-powerful Max is compared to the opposition.

It's challenging at first but the combat puzzle teaches you to use everything at your disposal instead of mindlessly pushing forward.

#4 Posted by Vitor (2789 posts) -

I never had a problem either. One shot is all it takes to down an enemy without a helmet. 2 if they're wearing one.

With KB/M controls its really not an issue and I can take out 2 (3 if I'm lucky) guys out with one shootdodge almost every time.

Plus, a lot of the cover is built so if you shootdodge out of one, there's always another one around for you to land behind. If you press the cover button when on the ground then you stick to it instantly without standing up. Really not an issue at all.

#5 Posted by ds8k (412 posts) -

@Vitor: The way Brad and Vinny are talking makes it sound like they're playing with a controller which sounds awful. If you're on a PC, use KB/M for any game that requires precise aiming.

#6 Edited by RandomInternetUser (6788 posts) -

Yep, agree with all that stuff you just said. The original games were much harder in my opinion (as someone who just beat Max Payne 2 again a few weeks before MP3 came out.) You definitely have to go for headshots a bunch. I got the 1000 kills medal thing right at the same time as I got the 500 headshots one, so 50% of my kills are headshots. You kind of have to find your "groove" in this game I think and it seems like a game that could be hard to do so in. The first 15 minutes of me playing this I didn't really like it, but once I found my "groove" it's one of my favorite shooters I've ever played and I had incredible amounts of fun.

Edit: I could see it being a problem with a controller though, you definitely need a bunch of precision for this game in my opinion.

#7 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Riveting tale, chap.

#8 Posted by Stonyman65 (2406 posts) -

I just watched a whole playthrough of the game on Youtube. I love Max Payne, but after watching all that, I don't feel like I've missed anything by not playing it. It's sad because I was really looking forward to that game for years. What Rockstar has doe to it is... Disappointing.

#9 Posted by Agent47 (1894 posts) -

@Stonyman65:What dissapointed you?Cause I wanted to get it to cause I love MP2 but I'd rather wait for a price drop cause I'm trying to get other games first.

#10 Posted by Pie (6936 posts) -

Totally agree with everybody here. I did play through on PC with KB/M but have seen people say that they played it like a proper max payne game (shootdodging all the time) using a controller by turning all the assistance off so that can't be that big a a problem. It's a shame cause I think lots of people would really enjoy it if they let go of the cover and were a bit more crazy. And about the complaint about guys taking too many shots or you going down too quickly go play the first 2. They are far harder than Max Payne 3

#11 Posted by AlisterCat (5398 posts) -

I'm bummed out with none of them really liking it, even having some disdain for it. The cinematography, story, animations, music, gameplay and everything work for me.

I understand not liking a game, it's just we usually agree. I really would give it more credit.

#12 Posted by ds8k (412 posts) -

@Agent47: For me, I loved the flashback scenes. The Brazil stuff wasn't awful, but I found myself enjoying the New York moments far more.

#13 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2661 posts) -

@ds8k said:

...and I can't agree with the guys at all. I played through the entire game on PC on Hard and never had an issue with it. I played it like a Max Payne game - no cover, always be shootdodging. Because I went for headshots 100% of the time I never experienced the bullet-sponge stuff Vinny mentioned.

Vinny talking about how the game was preventing him from having fun makes me question whether he remembers the original games - they weren't a fucking joke with difficulty. If you jumped into a group of guys you'd get wasted immediately.

I haven't listened to the Bombcast, but Patrick's comparison to Vanquish last week nailed it pretty well for me. Max Payne 3 just feels clunky and kind of boring (whereas Vanquish controls like a dream). I enjoyed my time with it (primarily the story stuff), but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone for over $30.

#14 Posted by cyberhugger (24 posts) -

MAX PAYNE 3 IS AWSOME, think personalry the best geme this year looks and sounds like a michael mann game. think the giant bomb crew dont get the storytelling in the game and what rockstar are doing there making a mature gritty title not a goffy,silly game about militery men. I dont think most of them have played half of it accept ryan and it definitely gets better in the secound half.

#15 Posted by Stonyman65 (2406 posts) -

@Agent47 said:

@Stonyman65:What dissapointed you?Cause I wanted to get it to cause I love MP2 but I'd rather wait for a price drop cause I'm trying to get other games first.

The way they portrayed the characters, the story was kind of dumb, and from what I've seen of gameplay it looks nothing like Max Payne - just a cover/shoot/cover shooting gallery.

#16 Posted by ajamafalous (11592 posts) -
@BigChickenDinner said:

I'm waiting for a price drop this holiday season before I dabble, but from everything I've heard/seen the game seems to be judged more on how much it is like the older games, than on the merit of the game itself. I hear more and more of "its not like" "you cant ___ like in ____" etc. I really think people need to take of those rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's.

I completely disagree, in that, if I'm playing a game named ______ 3, I sure as hell expect it to play like 1 and 2, and, if it doesn't, if I'm a fan of 1 and 2, I'm going to be more than a little upset.
#17 Posted by HatKing (5567 posts) -

@ds8k said:

@Vitor: The way Brad and Vinny are talking makes it sound like they're playing with a controller which sounds awful. If you're on a PC, use KB/M for any game that requires precise aiming.

@xobballox said:

Yep, agree with all that stuff you just said. The original games were much harder in my opinion (as someone who just beat Max Payne 2 again a few weeks before MP3 came out.) You definitely have to go for headshots a bunch. I got the 1000 kills medal thing right at the same time as I got the 500 headshots one, so 50% of my kills are headshots. You kind of have to find your "groove" in this game I think and it seems like a game that could be hard to do so in. The first 15 minutes of me playing this I didn't really like it, but once I found my "groove" it's one of my favorite shooters I've ever played and I had incredible amounts of fun.

Edit: I could see it being a problem with a controller though, you definitely need a bunch of precision for this game in my opinion.

Actually, I don't even think the controller argument works for them. I played through the entire game on my 360, no problems killing enemies - except the roof collapse bit, obviously.

I don't know what these guys are talking about. As somebody who just recently finished Uncharted 2 (an amazing game in its own right) I can assure you the enemies in Max Payne 3 are nowhere near as bullet-spongey. I actually appreciate the way shooting works in Rockstar games. It FEELS more real than other games. Guys take a bullet in the leg, they fall, they don't die though. God, I fucking cringe every time they use the term 'feel' like it holds some sort of tangible meaning.

#18 Edited by Animasta (14460 posts) -

Does it really bother y'all that they generally don't like it? I loved both of Catherine's parts (the bar stuff and the puzzles) and none of them did, but that really doesn't bother me at all. Sometimes you just don't like how a game controls and you can't explain why.

#19 Posted by Eaxis (866 posts) -

Played Max Payne 3 (xbox360), on every difficulty even old school and new york minute, it was fun and the enemies go down the same way on every diffuculty. Some frustrating parts that felt unfair, but not to hard actually. I put the sensitivity up a bunch and it clearly worked fine for me.

#20 Posted by TeamJersey (337 posts) -

Jeff doesn't like any game, but Trackmania 2 and NFL Blitz so it isn't suprising he didn't like it. I really don't understand the other guys hating on it so much though. I really enjoyed it and thought it was a good addition to the trilogy. I also agree with what has already been said...headshots and you are good.

#21 Posted by Pie (6936 posts) -

@Animasta said:

Does it really bother y'all that they generally don't like it? I loved both of Catherine's parts (the bar stuff and the puzzles) and none of them did, but that really doesn't bother me at all. Sometimes you just don't like how a game controls and you can't explain why.

I think a lot of people are frustrated because Max Payne 3 is getting what they see to be unfair criticism because people aren't "playing the game right" (terrible way to put it but it gets the point across).

Take what@Stonyman65 said:

@Agent47 said:

@Stonyman65:What dissapointed you?Cause I wanted to get it to cause I love MP2 but I'd rather wait for a price drop cause I'm trying to get other games first.

The way they portrayed the characters, the story was kind of dumb, and from what I've seen of gameplay it looks nothing like Max Payne - just a cover/shoot/cover shooting gallery.

He calls it a "cover/shoot/cover shooting gallery" and looks down on it because of that and is dismissive of it but many would argue that Max Payne 3 plays nothing like that

#22 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1773 posts) -

@TeamJersey: ill admit i laughed half at is as a joke and half because of how true it is

#23 Posted by KoolAid (738 posts) -

@ds8k:

An strange thing I've noticed about this game is that aiming "down the sights" so to speak is pretty worthless you aren't in cover, especially with pistols. You are super accurate even when you aren't "aiming". I think the natural play style of a lot of shooter fans nowadays is to plant your feet and aim when you see an enemy with right click/ right trigger/ whatever. But in Max Payne 3, you get shot up doing that. You are pretty deadly if you just point and shoot, shoot, shoot, even when running! Yeah, dudes suck up bullets... but its easy to riddle them with 'em pretty accurately!

#24 Posted by avivbarami (4 posts) -

I tend to agree. I played it on a PC with a controller and found it very enjoyable, and thought it was very well done.

I a big fan of the series, and at first I was bummed out about the lack of noir in it, but the new setting eventally really worked for me.

I found the Brazilian gang wars and the favela culture fascinating, Even if the game was sometime a bit too "action movie" for it's own good.

#25 Posted by Sayishere (1838 posts) -

The difficulty is max payne and always was, the stylstic approach of it is different, but apart from that the action is the same. I prefered Max payne 2 since there was breathing space in terms of pacing, max payne 3, and especially 1 is just alot of action

#26 Posted by OneManX (1664 posts) -

I really think they are misremember MP1 and MP2 those games kicked your as if you weren't getting headshots. And the only bullet sponges I could recall is the UFE and they have body armor. I already know this game is gonna get a raw deal come end of the year, so whatevs.

#27 Posted by Pie (6936 posts) -

@Sayishere said:

The difficulty is max payne and always was, the stylstic approach of it is different, but apart from that the action is the same. I prefered Max payne 2 since there was breathing space in terms of pacing, max payne 3, and especially 1 is just alot of action

I did enjoy the Favela bit in Max Payne 3 a lot and might not of minded some more stuff like it

#28 Posted by MikeFightNight (1048 posts) -

I completely agree with all the issues they had. I so wanted to love MP 3 but I just couldn't in the end. I enjoyed the first half of it well enough but hated it when it got into the parts with tons of military dudes shooting at you from long distances forcing you to stay behind cover and pop shooting until they were all dead. I didn't like the level designs and thought they always had five to many enemies, like that one part in the flashback cruise liner mission when you walk outside the ship and twenty guys pull up right across from the ship forcing you into cover when there could of easily been no confrontation at all. I found the whole game infuriating and that's strictly from a gameplay stance. The story I didn't like either, had its moments but just didn't feel like a Max Payne game in the end. They could of called it something else and it would of made no difference.

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (13869 posts) -

Its kind of weird to be pissed someone isn't "playing it right" but there is something to be said that some games if they aren't played in a specific way lead to more frustration if you dont fully understand them. I'm also kind of put off by their dislike of the game. I think at least Ryan gave it a fair shake and understands the game.

#30 Posted by Fjordson (2448 posts) -

It is a little confusing. Played through on Hard on 360. Had no issues. And I didn't run into bullet sponges enemies. Shoot a dude in the head, he's down for good...

#31 Posted by Milkman (16228 posts) -

The difficulty in Max Payne 3 is wildly inconsistent and the enemies are absolutely bullet sponges throughout. Also, if you don't constantly utilize cover, you die. Claiming that you "bullet dodged" your way through the game is a straight up lie because it's impossible. 

#32 Posted by Phatmac (5686 posts) -

I agree with Vinny that it doesn't want you to have fun. It's a weird game that doesn't have an identity. It really isn't supposed to be a third person cover shooter, yet I was forced to play it that way. I didn't care much for it.

#33 Edited by DharmaBum (1060 posts) -

@Milkman: I've played through multiple times and shootdodging is always the most effective tactic. How does planting yourself and poking out in cover make any sense when the enemies can easily hit a stationary target? Staying in cover is a surefire way to be shot, naded or flanked, not to mention an unsatisfying way to force yourself through each firefight.

You do have to use cover sparingly in between dodges, if that’s what you mean, to avoid exposure while standing up. But the best way to take dudes out is in mid-air as you cannot take any damage. Like someone mentioned earlier, almost every level layout has a pair of objects in the environment aligned with the exact distance it takes to dive in between them. Hell, you can even abuse the game if you want by dodging back and forth in the same spot ad infinitum.

#34 Edited by ds8k (412 posts) -

@Milkman: Impossible? No, I don't think it is impossible because that's how I played the game.

#35 Edited by squirrelnacho (329 posts) -

The GB crew are right. Glad they picked up on how different the style and tone is, and how it just doesn't seem as cool and unique as the originals. The gameplay mechanics are just another issue with the game. They aren't like other reviewers who automatically enjoy every game by certain developers that gets loaded with profanity and dumb writing. It shows that they have been doing this for a while, and they (mostly) know what they are talking about.

#36 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

I'm waiting for a price drop this holiday season before I dabble, but from everything I've heard/seen the game seems to be judged more on how much it is like the older games, than on the merit of the game itself. I hear more and more of "its not like" "you cant ___ like in ____" etc. I really think people need to take of those rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's.

I completely disagree, in that, if I'm playing a game named ______ 3, I sure as hell expect it to play like 1 and 2, and, if it doesn't, if I'm a fan of 1 and 2, I'm going to be more than a little upset.

Well disagree if you like, but looking through rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's isn't going to help you out. Just because fans really want/expect a game to be a certain way, doesn't mean it will be. No matter how realistic or reasonable the request. This is a different game from different people. We are lucky the game even exists. Your not entitled for your expectations to be met. I think the game(from what I've seen and heard) will play like 1&2 with M&KB, and for those unlucky enough to use a controller, to bad.

It also worries me with the fact that you seem to disagree with games should be based of their merits, and not how much it's like the rest of the series.

#37 Posted by ajamafalous (11592 posts) -
@BigChickenDinner said:

@ajamafalous said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

I'm waiting for a price drop this holiday season before I dabble, but from everything I've heard/seen the game seems to be judged more on how much it is like the older games, than on the merit of the game itself. I hear more and more of "its not like" "you cant ___ like in ____" etc. I really think people need to take of those rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's.

I completely disagree, in that, if I'm playing a game named ______ 3, I sure as hell expect it to play like 1 and 2, and, if it doesn't, if I'm a fan of 1 and 2, I'm going to be more than a little upset.

Well disagree if you like, but looking through rose-tinted-howitusedtobe's isn't going to help you out. Just because fans really want/expect a game to be a certain way, doesn't mean it will be. No matter how realistic or reasonable the request. This is a different game from different people. We are lucky the game even exists. Your not entitled for your expectations to be met. I think the game(from what I've seen and heard) will play like 1&2 with M&KB, and for those unlucky enough to use a controller, to bad.

It also worries me with the fact that you seem to disagree with games should be based of their merits, and not how much it's like the rest of the series.

I am not referring to Max Payne 3 here because I've never been a fan of the series.
#38 Edited by DeF (4692 posts) -

@ds8k said:

...and I can't agree with the guys at all. I played through the entire game on PC on Hard and never had an issue with it. I played it like a Max Payne game - no cover, always be shootdodging. Because I went for headshots 100% of the time I never experienced the bullet-sponge stuff Vinny mentioned.

Vinny talking about how the game was preventing him from having fun makes me question whether he remembers the original games - they weren't a fucking joke with difficulty. If you jumped into a group of guys you'd get wasted immediately.

Agreed. I played on PC as well (with mouse/keyboard) and it plays pretty much just like Max 1 and 2 with the exception of a few sequences where using the cover to pick off a few guys before I did my beloved death-dive made a lot of sense. Since I didn't try the controller yet I can only guess, but I really believe that the issue stems from gamepad controls not being the right call for Max Payne. A lot of the fun comes from diving into a group and taking them all out with a single head shot within the same bullet time jump. I simply can't imagine that you can be this precise in the limited amount of time with a controller which probably forces you into cover more often.

Enemies have only been sort of bullet-spongey when they wore heavy body armor/riot gear (late game) and I failed to miss the head which only makes sense. I played on normal and had tons of fun while feeling challenged!

I really don't agree with their opinions on this one, it flat out baffles me when I keep hearing "I got up to X and I don't think I wanna play anymore".

#39 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@ajamafalous: I'm not sure by adding that qualifier you've managed to change anything. All of my points are still valid. And you still sound like some crazy "entitlement-gamer".

#40 Edited by squirrelnacho (329 posts) -

@ds8k: Their problem is also with the new story and style of the game that the new developer took. Some of them don't think it works that well. Many people agree with them. Also, the levels just aren't as well designed around bullet-time, too many wide open spaces.

@AlisterCat:

@HatKing:

@Demoskinos:

@Stonyman65 said:

The way they portrayed the characters, the story was kind of dumb, and from what I've seen of gameplay it looks nothing like Max Payne - just a cover/shoot/cover shooting gallery.

Basically, this.

#41 Edited by mikeeegeee (1534 posts) -

PC: First play through on hard.

  1. Not enough people mention how useful the dodge-roll is. Dodge-roll + shoot dodge = rain on your wedding day.
  2. Blind fire.
  3. I used straight up "bullet time" a fair amount less than I did in the previous games. I found it most useful for picking up long range kills here and there.
  4. Does anybody remember the super awesome and stylish bullet time reload from MP2? No doubt something I'm disappointed in MP3 for omitting.

Most of these things people have said many, many times already, with the exception of dodge-roll. I loved it. Playing through again on old school and finding it laughable how hard I tear through everything now that I've gotten better. I'm rolling like 8 painkillers deep on the reg. Great, great game.

#42 Posted by jillsandwich (761 posts) -

I've learned to ignore complaints like that from this site, because the editors here are TERRIBLE at video games.

Just sayin'.

#43 Posted by DukesT3 (1853 posts) -

The only thing I didn't like was the stadium sniper part. That was a bit of a pain, but yeah.. I felt I was alone on this one but I REALLY enjoyed, hell nearly loved it. I loved how Max Payne is a piece of shit but trying to find any resemblance of his humanity left and that soundtrack... THAT SOUNDTRACK! Damn.. the whole text on the screen got a little annoying after a bit but yeah.. I shootdodge and did some cover and felt it was great. Max couldn't take a shitload of bullets on normal and I liked that.

#44 Edited by HatKing (5567 posts) -

I like to hear their complaints and commentary - even when it contradicts the reviews they post. I just don't want to hear them complain about the shooting, then use the god-awful "feel" argument to back it up. I feel like it is way bellow them to use undefined terms like that. It'd be like somebody using 'back in the day' in a history essay.

#45 Posted by squirrelnacho (329 posts) -

@HatKing: Regardless of what word they use, it doesn't change the fact that most of the GB crew (along with many others) think the gameplay mechanics and some of the writing and stylistic elements feel off. Frankly, they can use whatever words they want during the bombcast, it doesn't contradict them or mean their complaints are any less valid.

#46 Posted by DJJoeJoe (1291 posts) -

I played the pc version on easy with a controller, cause I dig games with style and kinda just play for that rather than any sort of challenge. I can make my own challenge most the time anyways, I don't just run my way through for fast times or high scores or whatever. Dudes are sponges if you're using the soft/hard lock options and just shooting them in the chest, especially the guys with vests which seems to not be affected half the time when you riddle their limbs and chests with bullets. For the most part though they do react somewhat, especially to the face-off shots for sure.

#47 Posted by Stepside (506 posts) -

Is it still 30 gigs?

#48 Posted by SharkEthic (945 posts) -

I thought Vinny was spot on. The first couple of hours I was shoot dodging left and right, but getting my ass handed to me every time...finally just caved in and started using cover. What a sad fucking realization it was, that I couldn't really use shoot dodging for shit in a Max Payne game - that it had become like every other third person shooter, with the only difference being a slow motion mechanic.

I was playing it on my PS3 with a controller mind you. Probably gonna get it on PC one day when the price drops...fuck me, I have a monster of a PC, but Gamefly (or my countries equivalent) sent me the game on PS3 day one...

#49 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6788 posts) -

@mikeeegeee said:

  1. Does anybody remember the super awesome and stylish bullet time reload from MP2? No doubt something I'm disappointed in MP3 for omitting.

I mentioned this in another thread (could have been this one?) and yeah, really miss that. Running in a room with dual wielded sawed off shotguns, activating bullet time, dumping the shotguns into a guy's face/chest, reload-dodge (this is what I have seen it referred to as somewhere) and keep doing that over and over until everyone in the room is down without ever exiting bullet time was one of my favorite things to do in MP2. The meeeeegggggaaaaaa slow reload that happens after the 3rd time you reload in bullet time after killing a dude is kind of annoying though after a while. So, yeah, I really miss that mechanic as well but I still love this game.

#50 Posted by bio595 (307 posts) -

Well to fair to the Bombsquad, they don't like anything that's mainstream and are terrible at anything that requires an iota of paying attention (there are exceptions) and blame their inadequacy on the game(Vinny's not so bad but I might be biased).

I really only come here for news and the laughs; everything else is usually drowning in cynicism and/or mediocrity.

TLDR: Their job is to present games, not play them, but we like them anyway.

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