Final Boss assistance - spoilers within

#1 Edited by Humanity (9853 posts) -

EDIT: I beat it - turns out the game was running at a subpar framerate in fullscreen causing me to always mess up the zandatsu slashing thing. When switched to windowed mode it ran at 60FPS and I had zero issues getting through that section.

So I've just spent an hour on the final boss. Let me say that I didn't have many issues during the span if the game or any of the other bosses. I understand parrying, although I think it's a clunky system because it depends on which way you're facing the enemy and the camera is awful in this game. That said by the end I was really starting to get into it. The cheesy rock music, the awful dialog - it all came together in this ridiculous package that leaves a grin on your face.

My main issue with the boss: there is a zandatsu (sp?) moment when he jumps and hurls debris at you. You have to cut it along specific lines three times before you get a chance to hit the bosses head - or so I hear. You see I've yet to get a chance at slicing the senators head as I've barely time to clear the debris without getting hit. When he hurls the chunk of stuff at you I hit the cutting mode left trigger and..the stuff is always very close to me. So close that the second cut is filling the screen and by the third cut it's almost on me.

I don't know if I'm missing a prompt or what. I've tried to hold the trigger before he throws it, press the trigger the moment it starts flying at me, waiting for the Japanese text to pop up on screen. Nothing - the first section is always too close for me to be able to cut everything in time to get a chance and hit the boss. I can always clear these sections but never with enough time to damage him.

I've managed to get him down to 20% health once, by just pure swordplay but the problem is I have no healing items going into the fight. I'm decent at the game but when each of his attacks take off 30% life and his myriad of AoE moves make it a precarious battle with a single lifebar (although it is at 160% health).

I'm just shocked as I haven't hit a wall in a game like this literally in years. I also feel humbled when I see no one else seemed to have any issues with it. So humble bombers, any tips?

(Disclaimer: I wrote this on my phone so apologies for spelling errors)

#2 Edited by pyrodactyl (2277 posts) -

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

Anyway, just go into the fight with a bunch of healing items (I had to start the mission over to get a bunch of them) and practice the dodges for the different attacks he can throw at you (use the defensive offence move often). You'll have to master the clunky zandatsu controles before the end because the ending QTE is basically the throwing garbage bit but more elaborat. Don't give up, the ending sequence is well worth it.

#3 Posted by MiniPato (2747 posts) -

yeah, got my ass kicked a lot at that part. You basically have to use the claw maneuver with your right hand. Thumb on the analog stick and index and middle fingers on the cutting buttons. Left hand can be normal. That way you can control the camera and the cutting angle and cut without letting go of the sticks.

I had no nanopaste for the fight at all. But once you cut down the debris, it should drop quite a few nanopaste items. It's pretty much smooth sailing after you get that first cut.

#4 Posted by Pie (7110 posts) -

Had no problem with this, sorry. I will say that he drops healing items when you complete that QTE so you should probably figure that out.

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

You can set it so you aim with the stick and slice with the B button if you're into that kind of thing. Control option B and D I think.

#5 Posted by Dragon4234 (135 posts) -

Or you know, just dodge it.

#6 Posted by NoctisLucisCaelum (94 posts) -

@humanity: When he throws the rocks, you can just run under them. Just keep practicing, you will beat him eventually. Took me about an hour of practice. Totally worth it. Eventually I got good enough (with the help of upgraded items) to beat him with no damage.

#7 Posted by pyrodactyl (2277 posts) -

@pie said:

Had no problem with this, sorry. I will say that he drops healing items when you complete that QTE so you should probably figure that out.

@pyrodactyl said:

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

You can set it so you aim with the stick and slice with the B button if you're into that kind of thing. Control option B and D I think.

That's still quite terrible since you have to let go of the stick to press B or hold to controler like a crazy person.

#8 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

Yah I realize that he drops the healing items after that which is my biggest issue. I'm thinking maybe it has something to do with input lag or something because when I looked at online videos people go into cutting mode right away when he throws it, something that I simply cannot get to happen.

Oh well I'll just keep bashing away at it. I'd rather not restart the entire section as the initial first phases of the boss fight are not hard at all, they also aren't very fun. Apart from the crazy dialog this is probably my least favorite boss fight of the entire game. Jetstream Sam being one of the better ones - although even there the camera would do that funny thing where it wouldn't keep up with him and you'd get lunged at completely off screen.

I have a feeling this would have been an amazing game if Platinum had like one more year to work on it.

#9 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

The final boss had me quite agitated for the two hours or so I've had to chew on the encounter. Dunno man, just fight harder. It's what I did. And bring the heavens low with curses.

Anger is better than desperation.

#10 Posted by Aetheldod (3682 posts) -

Forget the zandatsu ... just dodge the damn rock!!!!!! Stay at the center of the fight zone and when he throws it ... run to either your left or right all the way and you will dodge it and no stupidly hard zandatsu moment to be had :D

#11 Posted by Pie (7110 posts) -

@pie said:

Had no problem with this, sorry. I will say that he drops healing items when you complete that QTE so you should probably figure that out.

@pyrodactyl said:

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

You can set it so you aim with the stick and slice with the B button if you're into that kind of thing. Control option B and D I think.

That's still quite terrible since you have to let go of the stick to press B or hold to controler like a crazy person.

You can set the left stick to be the aiming stick.

#12 Posted by DoctorDonkey (402 posts) -

This is one of those cases of bad difficulty spiking. I'm all for a final boss being difficult, but not when the game doesn't demand any of the skills leading up to it. Never once did the game demand my use of precise Zandatsu or offensive dodging up to this point, when all of a sudden it starts punishing you for moves it never fully explains in the previous 6 hours. My only advice for the zandatsu part is to either switch to control style D, or make you are letting the stick go back to neutral instead of following through. If you follow through to the other side of the stick, it decreases your accuracy a lot, try to just aim it and let it go. Also, if he glows yellow to do that stupid charge move/AoE attack, just spam the dodge ability until he is finished. Also, make sure you don't fail that last QTE, because if you fail it I think he jumps back up to like 75% health (bullshit!).

#13 Posted by The_Hiro_Abides (1266 posts) -

I had a lot of trouble with this fight as well. Almost no other moment in the game required such precision. When I beat him I did the zandatsu once for the health items. The other times I just run up close to him and wait for him to stop throwing rocks.

#14 Edited by pyrodactyl (2277 posts) -

@pie said:

@pyrodactyl said:

@pie said:

Had no problem with this, sorry. I will say that he drops healing items when you complete that QTE so you should probably figure that out.

@pyrodactyl said:

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

You can set it so you aim with the stick and slice with the B button if you're into that kind of thing. Control option B and D I think.

That's still quite terrible since you have to let go of the stick to press B or hold to controler like a crazy person.

You can set the left stick to be the aiming stick.

and you still need to move the camera with the right stick in that fight. Setting the cuting on right bumper would've been the easiest thing in the world to implement and the best controle scheme.

#15 Posted by Undeadpool (4986 posts) -

The zandatsu stuff is pure BS because ANY controller configuration you use will require either ridiculous precision or hand placement, so unfortunately it's just one of those things that you'll need to get used to.

Other than that, I found the best way to beat the bastard was to use your running attack (the one where he slashes, but doesn't stop running) to basically kill him with a thousand pinpricks. Not the most efficient way, but it worked out pretty well in the end.

#16 Posted by buft (3321 posts) -

That cutting section is harder than everything similar up to this point in the game. It's in this section that a realized the zandatsu controle in this game are garbage. Why not put direction controle on the stick and actual slicing on a trigger?

Anyway, just go into the fight with a bunch of healing items (I had to start the mission over to get a bunch of them) and practice the dodges for the different attacks he can throw at you (use the defensive offence move often). You'll have to master the clunky zandatsu controles before the end because the ending QTE is basically the throwing garbage bit but more elaborat. Don't give up, the ending sequence is well worth it.

I felt exactly the same, i ended up playing the final boss with a strange claw like grasp of the right hand side in order to use triangle and square and the right analog stick at the same time. the one saving grace is that it gives you plenty of time to get it in the right position before the slice. also this part drops 3 health packs at a time so if you can get it right the boss battle almost becomes trivial.

#17 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

I beat it - turns out as a I expected it was a technical issue. Apparently when I switched the game to windowed mode, same resolution, same graphic options etc it ran at 60FPS, where in fullscreen mode it was running at like 24 FPS or lower and was obviously dropping a lot of frames. After the switch I cut that stuff up no problem with plenty of time to spare on chopping up his face. I guess I just figured the game was supposed to run like that? Good to know I was playing it gimped until the very end. I have a Radeon so this really didn't shock me as I seem to always have weird issues with this card. I keep putting off buying a newer better Nvidia card but maybe it's time.

Thanks for all the tips regardless - and if you're playing this on PC and it doesn't seem very smooth, try Windowed mode, it runs like butter in windowed for me. Too bad Alt-Enter doesn't fill the screen and I always have the frame from the game window visible. Unless someone knows how to fix that.

#18 Posted by Pie (7110 posts) -

@humanity: That's a bummer dude.....But how could you not tell it was running at 24fps!?

Cool that you got it sorted in the end though I guess

#19 Posted by gike987 (1770 posts) -

You don't have to cut the rocks, just ninja run to dodge it.

#20 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

@pie said:

@humanity: That's a bummer dude.....But how could you not tell it was running at 24fps!?

Cool that you got it sorted in the end though I guess

I could tell that it wasn't running at 60, but I had just assumed this was how the game worked. It ran, more or less, like a console game does - although considering how drab and barren most of the environments were it was a bit strange that it would run at bare minimum. Anyway, there was something more happening here than simply running at a lower framerate as that single moment was literally impossible in fullscreen, and then trivial when running properly. It is a relief because I started to wonder if maybe I'm simply beginning to be horrible at games or something. To be honest, a lot of the "systems" in this game had me questioning myself. I think a lot of them aren't properly implemented. MY biggest issue being with the parrying itself - for a move that so heavily depends on moving the stick in a proper direction, the camera constantly swims erratically making this a lot more difficult than it should be. The Blade Wolf fight as Jetstream Sam in the DLC was terrible, as Wolf leaps left and right, completely off screen and you're left not only fighting the enemy but the camera itself.

It's a fun, quirky game, but I was frustrated more often than not.

#21 Posted by RecSpec (3907 posts) -

I saw that you already beat it, but for those with low healing items: If you can cut the first thing he throws at you, you'll get health pickups. Call the girl and manually save. If you die, you start with the items you had when you saved. You can repeat to get the max.

#22 Posted by crithon (3441 posts) -

yes, had the same thing happen to me

What is it about windows mode? I mean technically speaking. I'd love to know.

And NOW! My save file is lost? Sort of, Jetstream Sam and Blade Wolf files seem beaten just don't have the Muramasa sword in my inventory and the wig. hehe, man this is such a weird port.

#23 Edited by gike987 (1770 posts) -

@crithon: Did you accidentally start a new game? Don't do that, it will reset your customization and ratings. Use chapter select to replay the game on a different difficulty unless you want to get the title Naked and Unloved (beat the game on hard without buying any health or fuel upgrades) which requires a new game.

#24 Posted by crithon (3441 posts) -

@gike987: I guess, it's 6 AM, who cares. I got it on PS3, the game runs so slow it's not worth it.

#25 Posted by golguin (4009 posts) -

@humanity said:

@pie said:

@humanity: That's a bummer dude.....But how could you not tell it was running at 24fps!?

Cool that you got it sorted in the end though I guess

I could tell that it wasn't running at 60, but I had just assumed this was how the game worked. It ran, more or less, like a console game does - although considering how drab and barren most of the environments were it was a bit strange that it would run at bare minimum. Anyway, there was something more happening here than simply running at a lower framerate as that single moment was literally impossible in fullscreen, and then trivial when running properly. It is a relief because I started to wonder if maybe I'm simply beginning to be horrible at games or something. To be honest, a lot of the "systems" in this game had me questioning myself. I think a lot of them aren't properly implemented. MY biggest issue being with the parrying itself - for a move that so heavily depends on moving the stick in a proper direction, the camera constantly swims erratically making this a lot more difficult than it should be. The Blade Wolf fight as Jetstream Sam in the DLC was terrible, as Wolf leaps left and right, completely off screen and you're left not only fighting the enemy but the camera itself.

It's a fun, quirky game, but I was frustrated more often than not.

I don't know if its the PC version or if its you, but it's definitely not a thing I heard of with the console versions. The Sam DLC was amazing and the fight with Blade Wolf is one of the best boss fights in the game. I died a couple of times to Blade Wolf because Sam has a shorter parry window and the enemies are simply more aggressive in the DLC, but once I had a handle on the fight I was able to take him out extremely fast.

The only way to figure out if its some weird PC settings things with the frames or you would be to try out the console version. If you weren't able to get the parry timing down by the end of the game then there is definitely something not clicking.

#26 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

@golguin: it's not the parrying. Parrying is ridiculously easy and has a huge window to execute. You can begin parrying before some enemies even begin winding up and it still works. It's that Bladewolf jumps to your right completely off-screen, the camera pans to the left or into a corner or wherever your enemy actually isn't and you're frantically rotating it back on course when Bladewolf is already hurtling towards you from somewhere you can't see.

It's a bad camera, it has nothing to do with the ability to parry. It's sort of hard to parry and attack when you don't know where it's coming from.

I think what most people have problems with is realizing just how simple and by extension limited the combat mechanics actually are.

#27 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2913 posts) -

@humanity: There's a lock on button you know...

#28 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -
#29 Posted by golguin (4009 posts) -

@humanity said:

@golguin: it's not the parrying. Parrying is ridiculously easy and has a huge window to execute. You can begin parrying before some enemies even begin winding up and it still works. It's that Bladewolf jumps to your right completely off-screen, the camera pans to the left or into a corner or wherever your enemy actually isn't and you're frantically rotating it back on course when Bladewolf is already hurtling towards you from somewhere you can't see.

It's a bad camera, it has nothing to do with the ability to parry. It's sort of hard to parry and attack when you don't know where it's coming from.

I think what most people have problems with is realizing just how simple and by extension limited the combat mechanics actually are.

I'm not talking about the parry that simply results in a block. I'm talking about the perfect parry that allows you to follow up with a counter attack and blade mode execution. Window for the perfect parry decreases in higher difficulties.

There was a single instance in the game where the camera freaked out and that was during a VR mission with Sam. I got pinned in a corner by 3 Mastiffs and the camera kept swinging around wildly in that corner. That's the only time I had camera issues.

I've killed Blade Wolf several times as Raiden and Sam and that attack where he's jumping all around has never been an issue. The camera doesn't get crazy. I don't know what to tell you.

#30 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

@golguin: I don't know what to tell you either. I've spoken with several other people that recently finished the game on PC and they all agreed that while the game is entertaining, the camera is not very good in it. I'm glad you find it satisfactory. Personally it was subpar for me compared to other character action games.

#31 Posted by golguin (4009 posts) -

@humanity said:

@golguin: I don't know what to tell you either. I've spoken with several other people that recently finished the game on PC and they all agreed that while the game is entertaining, the camera is not very good in it. I'm glad you find it satisfactory. Personally it was subpar for me compared to other character action games.

I decided to take a closer at the Sam VS Blade Wolf fight to see how the camera could possibly get crazy. I took that move with and without the lock on. The lock on kept Blade Wolf in front of me and I never lost site of him. Without the lock on he could jump out of my field of vision sometimes when I kept the camera pointing forward and we were close to a wall, but he's going to come after you on the 4th jump. You can point the camera toward him then or you can simply know he's going to charge you from the direction you can't see and leave the camera as is.

#32 Posted by Humanity (9853 posts) -

@golguin said:

@humanity said:

@golguin: I don't know what to tell you either. I've spoken with several other people that recently finished the game on PC and they all agreed that while the game is entertaining, the camera is not very good in it. I'm glad you find it satisfactory. Personally it was subpar for me compared to other character action games.

I decided to take a closer at the Sam VS Blade Wolf fight to see how the camera could possibly get crazy. I took that move with and without the lock on. The lock on kept Blade Wolf in front of me and I never lost site of him. Without the lock on he could jump out of my field of vision sometimes when I kept the camera pointing forward and we were close to a wall, but he's going to come after you on the 4th jump. You can point the camera toward him then or you can simply know he's going to charge you from the direction you can't see and leave the camera as is.

It's not JUST that single fight, and I've already beat it. It was more of an inconvenience than a game breaking element (unlike what this thread was originally about). I just wish the camera was tighter. I already have the sensitivity set to 10 so I can swivel it as fast as I can.

Different strokes for different folks though. This game just didn't click for me as much as it did for others, especially people that were stating it was on their GOTY list. I can understand that though, as I often argued with others about Dragons Dogma where I thought it was this amazing game while others kept saying it's boring, or the world felt empty - things I just didn't experience when I was playing it. So don't get me wrong, I totally respect you for enjoying it, and I'm not trying to ruin that - I just had a different experience with it than you did and that shouldn't in any way take anything away from the fun you had.

#33 Posted by McLargepants (396 posts) -

I just finally beat this, but did anybody else have the (hopefully) glitch that after you do the three cutting sections, Raiden turns around so Armstrong is coming at you from behind, so you have to slowly turn around in slow motion, causing him to hit you? I managed to pull it off twice out of many attempts. Completely ridiculous.

#34 Edited by Astrophyle (159 posts) -

I was fighting Armstrong tonight, and I'm about to break my desk in frustration at trying to make the zandatsu cuts. I never tried to perfect my left hand cuts because I never saw the point, and of course now on the final boss the game is pointing out the thing I should have worked on. I hate it when a dumb quicktime minigame event is keeping me from winning.

I just can't help but describe this game as a fantastic shitty game. The highs are very high, but the lows are abysmal sometimes, with the naughty camera with a mind of its own and the lack of a moves list, and no way to upgrade Raiden without starting the chapter over.

But I can see why people end up liking the game. I think with enough practice you can overcome the parts that are badly designed. I love and hate this game. Tonight more hate than love though. I'll give it another go tomorrow.

#35 Posted by TheHT (11676 posts) -

@astrophyle: Moves list is in the "HELP" menu, and I thought leaving the upgrade menu take you to the last checkpoint, not the whole chapter.

I'll say this: it sure doesn't do a good job of explaining things. I was fumbling around the combat until I saw some "How to play Revengeance" video posted in the Quick Look comments. After that I was zandatsuing up the ass and destroying everything. It's also where I found out the moves list was in the help menu, because what the fuck, why would it be there.

#36 Posted by golguin (4009 posts) -

I was fighting Armstrong tonight, and I'm about to break my desk in frustration at trying to make the zandatsu cuts. I never tried to perfect my left hand cuts because I never saw the point, and of course now on the final boss the game is pointing out the thing I should have worked on. I hate it when a dumb quicktime minigame event is keeping me from winning.

I just can't help but describe this game as a fantastic shitty game. The highs are very high, but the lows are abysmal sometimes, with the naughty camera with a mind of its own and the lack of a moves list, and no way to upgrade Raiden without starting the chapter over.

But I can see why people end up liking the game. I think with enough practice you can overcome the parts that are badly designed. I love and hate this game. Tonight more hate than love though. I'll give it another go tomorrow.

Here you go. If you missed the moves list I can only start to imagine what else you did without. Did you know you can walk while in blade mode? How about being able to Zandatsu without the huge lettering on a blue screen prompt or counter attack button press?

You should have really been practicing your Zandatsu cuts instead of mashing and hoping you hit the red box. The game straight up tells you in the intro movie after the tutorial that you should be trying to cut off those left hands. If you force people at the start they'd complain about the mechanic. If you don't force them till the end of the game they complain they weren't taught about it.

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